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US Airways A320 Down In Hudson River, Part 5  
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4515 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 39562 times:

Installement 5 already of this discussion. Previous episode can be found here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4284993/

Please continue the discussion in this new thread.

219 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 39577 times:

I'm going to repost this question I asked at the close of the last thread, because I would honestly like input as to the possibility of it.

What are the odds this wasn't a bird strike and was related to the recently announced (and AD'ed) issue with the CFM engines? In all the photos I see no evidence of bird impact anywhere on the fuselage and I would think a flock of birds wide enough to hit both engines would leave some other marks, but all the photos show the fuselage amazingly pristine (especially considering they landed in a bloomin' river!).

I'm not saying this did happen, but is it possible? Would the crew have any way of knowing it was or wasn't a bird strike definitively (assuming the birds didn't hit the cockpit area, which I see no evidence of). The conditions at flight time sound somewhat similar to those that were reported along with the AD (power adjustments in flight, etc.).

Go easy on me, as I'm not saying it wasn't birds.. but also, do we have any way of knowing it *was* birds? Looking for honest input here, as a compressor stall would manifest the same to the flight crew (I believe) as a bird strike would.

[Edited 2009-01-16 19:08:12]


I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39557 times:

How soon will the pilots be able to fly again?

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39525 times:



Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 2):
How soon will the pilots be able to fly again?

I would assume all the crew will return to duty as soon as *they* are comfortable as there is currently no reason to suspect they are at fault whatsoever.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39449 times:

10am? I'm going to try and get down there then a bit b4 that.. would be great to have some photo's to share with you all.

User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2371 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39309 times:

F/A years of experience: 92

Great job by an experienced crew!

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineAcabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39272 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 3):
Quoting Acabgd (Reply 201):
Yes, but flameout doesn't usually come with a loud bang and fire coming out of the back of the engine, right?

Actually, compressor stalls do *exactly* that!

You've probably meant that compressor surge does that (noise).

As for the CFM56 flameouts, what I meant were flameouts such as the one of Dec15 in France (double flameout). You basically have no prior indication of what is going to happen, except excessive EGT.

[Edited 2009-01-16 19:29:54]


CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39215 times:

I just heard a PAX on WPIX say she heard big loud booms.. on both sides.

Quote:
we heard these big loud *booms*, it sounded like it was both sides of the plane



Quoting Acabgd (Reply 6):
As for the CFM56 flameouts, what I meant were flameouts such as the one of Dec15 in France (double flameout). You basically have no prior indication of what is going to happen, except excessive EGT.

I'm not sure what you are refering to here, as the pax on that Dec15th flight reported loud bangs from both engines (I'm not trying to be intentional obtuse here, I honestly don't understand what you're getting at, sorry).



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39101 times:

Sorry if this was already answered, but I saw in one of the other threads a mention of a "ditch" button that closed all the valves "below the waterline". I was unaware airplanes had waterlines, and the notion was dismissed. However, I see CNN repeating this idea of a ditching button, so what's the answer on this?

User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39100 times:

asked that very same questions. its being discussed in techops...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/247196/

cheers!


User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39040 times:

What will happen to this a/c? I can't imagine that it would be allowed to sink to the bottom of the river due to enviromental and health issues. How would it be lifted out and then where would it be taken?

User currently offlineQantasA333 From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 538 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39037 times:

Has the US Airbus 320 been pulled out of the river yet? Or is the plane going to sink?

User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 39020 times:



Quoting QantasA333 (Reply 11):
Has the US Airbus 320 been pulled out of the river yet? Or is the plane going to sink?

its "docked" around World Financial Center, I'm going to go down in the morning and see if I can get pics of it being hoisted out to share with everyone.

cheers


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38924 times:

Quoting Osiris30] Insanely experienced crew. I'm sure it helped (not that I don't think all crews are well trained mind you).[/quote]

I'm absolutely certain that age and experience had very little to do with the outcome - all flight crew within a given airline are trained to a common standard. Whether the flight attendants were 55 or 25, and the pilots had 20,000 hours or 200 hours, every one of them was doing their job as they were trained, and doing it for real for the first time.

[quote=Osiris30
(Reply 1):
What are the odds this wasn't a bird strike and was related to the recently announced (and AD'ed) issue with the CFM engines? In all the photos I see no evidence of bird impact anywhere on the fuselage and I would think a flock of birds wide enough to hit both engines would leave some other marks, but all the photos show the fuselage amazingly pristine ...
I'm not saying this did happen, but is it possible? Would the crew have any way of knowing it was or wasn't a bird strike definitively

Go easy on me, as I'm not saying it wasn't birds.. but also, do we have any way of knowing it *was* birds?

I'll be easy on you. The pilot reported he hit birds. Whether or not birds hit the fuselage, they certainly hit both engines. How would the pilot know? It's easy to see a single, never mind a flock, of birds large enough to incapacitate both engines. You can see them from great distances. When you're looking out the cockpit window, and you see birds on a collision course with you, and then you hit them and then your engines fail, it's a reasonable assumption that they caused the accident.

Assumptions will very likely be removed once they examine the engines.

[Edited 2009-01-16 20:13:38]


The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38861 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 13):
The pilot reported he hit birds.

That was what I was trying to find out, whether or not the pilot reported knowing he hit birds or *thinking* he hit birds. Everything I've heard is very vague regarding this and I haven't had a chance to catch any interviews with the flight-deck crew.

If the pilot is sure he hit birds (i.e. positive ID), then I'm quite happy with the explanation  Wink

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 13):
I'm absolutely certain that age and experience had very little to do with the outcome - all flight crew within a given airline are trained to a common standard. Whether the flight attendants were 55 or 25, and the pilots had 20,000 hours or 200 hours, every one of them was doing their job as they were trained, and doing it for real for the first time.

You left out the part where I said I'm sure all crews would have handled the situation well  Wink Having said that I do disagree with you a bit. Age and experience tend to changes one's perspective regardless of training. The longer you've been doing something the more comfortable you become with it through natural process. Also, the more 'real-world' experience you accumulate that you just can't get in a simulator. It's no different than an experienced solider vs. one just out of training IMHO.

Both will have the same book smarts, but there is a real world component that you just can't teach that comes with time. This is true of *any* field I've ever encountered.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38695 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 1):
What are the odds this wasn't a bird strike and was related to the recently announced (and AD'ed) issue with the CFM engines?

Pretty low. The odds that the flight crew saw birds at the exact same time as both engines surged for a totally unrelated reason are awfully small.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 1):
In all the photos I see no evidence of bird impact anywhere on the fuselage and I would think a flock of birds wide enough to hit both engines would leave some other marks, but all the photos show the fuselage amazingly pristine (especially considering they landed in a bloomin' river!).

The most common evidence of bird impact is the blood smear...and the river would have taken care of that. In at least one photo I've seen, the leading edge slat is gone (presumably from the water impact), which would take any bird evidence on the wings with it.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 8):
Sorry if this was already answered, but I saw in one of the other threads a mention of a "ditch" button that closed all the valves "below the waterline". I was unaware airplanes had waterlines, and the notion was dismissed.

Airplanes do have a waterline, but it's not related to the actual waterline (where the airplane floats). It's a holdover from naval architecture days (as are a whole bunch of aircraft terms)...the waterline is an arbitrary level datum plane that vertical measurements are made from. It's usually about where the ground plane is, but parallel to the cabin floor.

Tom


User currently offlineMaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1155 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 38671 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 14):

That's exactly what I was going to express. Over the years, I've had the honor of training our younger airman. Enthusiasm, skill, knowledge - most of them were right up there. What they needed was experience to temper their judgement and decision making skills. Just like me as a 23 year old flight engineer on a DC-8, over 30 years ago.

The soldier analogy is perfect. As Ernest K. Gann said, commercial aviation is an undeclared war. In his day icing, engine fires and bad radio aids took the lives of thousands of passengers and crew. If anyone would like to understand what being an airline pilot is all about, read his "Fate is the Hunter". It still rings true today.


User currently offlineFWA2500 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38540 times:

footage from a security camera it seems has just been posted on ireport

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183256



ex-OH@CVG
User currently offlineMaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1155 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38448 times:

BTW, the fact that everyone in the crew is in their 50s (except for the 49 year old F/O) is average for the CLT base. With the massive downsizing after 9/11, pilots who had been captains for years found themselves back in the right seat. I think the overall flight crew experience level of US Airways (East) is the highest of any airline in the world.

User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38390 times:



Quoting FWA2500 (Reply 17):
footage from a security camera it seems has just been posted on ireport

Great find!



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineFWA2500 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38371 times:

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 19):

Great find!

you can really see how quick the crews response was from when the aircraft was relatively calm in the water to having everyone out and in the rafts, etc.

[Edited 2009-01-16 21:41:16]


ex-OH@CVG
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38331 times:

2:20, aircraft ditches. By 247 when the camera zooms in, the forward and wing exits are open and people are exiting already. Impressive. And, I know it has been mentioned, but this video clearly shows the quick reaction by those ferry boats. Three of them on scene withen a few minutes.


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38320 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 1):
In all the photos I see no evidence of bird impact anywhere on the fuselage and I would think a flock of birds wide enough to hit both engines would leave some other marks, but all the photos show the fuselage amazingly pristine

One shot I saw on TV this morning showed dents and possible tears in the fuselage just in front of the front left, right on the Star Alliance logo. I haven't read the other 1,000+ posts so maybe this was explained elsewhere.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2399 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38283 times:



Quoting Andz (Reply 22):
One shot I saw on TV this morning showed dents and possible tears in the fuselage just in front of the front left, right on the Star Alliance logo. I haven't read the other 1,000+ posts so maybe this was explained elsewhere.

Some of that may have been caused by the rescue vessels getting up close to get the passengers off.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9228 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 38269 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 13):
I'm absolutely certain that age and experience had very little to do with the outcome - all flight crew within a given airline are trained to a common standard.



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 13):
the pilots had 20,000 hours or 200 hours, every one of them was doing their job as they were trained, and doing it for real for the first time.

I disagree with that, a more experienced person handles multiple unrelated emergencies a lot better than an inexperienced one, seen it time and time again in the aircraft or sim.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 14):
Having said that I do disagree with you a bit. Age and experience tend to changes one's perspective regardless of training. The longer you've been doing something the more comfortable you become with it through natural process. Also, the more 'real-world' experience you accumulate that you just can't get in a simulator. It's no different than an experienced solider vs. one just out of training IMHO.

Agree, would rather have the experienced doctor operate on me than the one just out of school, regardless of they had had the same training from the same school, and hold the same licence.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 WingedMigrator : That should give them a pretty good idea of where to find the engines.
26 SASD209 : Wow, yeah.....First boat responds within 30 seconds and arrives 4 minutes later, 2 more in quick succession. Absolutely stunning good fortune!
27 Zeke : Nice footage, even Concorde in the background. Camera operator was on the ball.
28 Osiris30 : That was a result of the tugs working to get her tied up to the pier, that damage isn't there in the early photos.
29 Sparky35805 : In 1962 a United Viscount flew into a flock of Whistling Swans at 6000ft over Maryland.The aircraft struck only two birds,one on each horizontal stabs
30 KBUF : Crew per the US website: Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger, III, age 58, joined US Airways (PSA Airlines) in 1980. He has a total of 19,663 flight hours
31 LMAFSS : Wow. the timelines REALLY come to light in that video. That boat was clearly on its way nearly immediately. The crew on the plane, and on the boats ar
32 Maxpower1954 : I'm sure US Airways would be thrilled about that! An exhibit would be more appropriate.
33 Post contains links Skydrol : This video should explain that damage: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-182547# Interesting to watch until the police become a bunch of megalomaniac a
34 Maxpower1954 : I'm amazed they didn't keep the crowd back 100 feet...I realize NYC cops sound like assholes to a Canadian, but hey - it's NYC!
35 Post contains links and images Moose135 : In the database: View Large View MediumPhoto © John Musolino
36 Skydrol : Actually, I thought the police were about as reasonable, polite and professional as could be expected until about 4:00 in the video, when they starte
37 Flyingfox27 : The main thing is everyone got out and was able to go home to their families and live anotherday, you can replace a tube of metal with wings easily bu
38 Litz : Some very very good news out of the latest cnn articles on the aftermath ... per the NTSB, there were only two serious injuries sustained during the a
39 Post contains links UN_B732 : Captain Sullenberger is an amazing man. What's interesting is, there was a very similar incident in St. Petersburg, Russia August 21st, 1963. Captain
40 F9Animal : Heck yeah, there was more than just one or two heroes in this. That water is friggin ice cold, and 5-10 minutes later of a response could have been v
41 Airbuske : Has anyone sued yet?
42 F9Animal : I could not edit my last post about the police reaction on the tape. For all they knew at that time was, it was a potential moving crime scene. They m
43 HAWK21M : I'm awaiting reading an interview with the pilot in question on his views. regds MEL
44 B707forever : I think that's going to be a tough one as who gets sued? Engine makers for making engines that can't withstand a birdstrike? US Airways for landing o
45 Flighty : It certainly has. Hard to imagine a more positive result given the fact these people were in such grave danger. US Airways is getting a lot of free p
46 Andz : Thanks for the video, that clears things up.
47 AirbusA370 : Someone could sue the birds if you find the remains BTW, are the engines still one the wings? I haven't seen them on any of the photos.
48 Post contains links Vfw614 : Interesting pics here of the airplane sort of half frozen in the river at Battery Park: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183283
49 Post contains links Cumulus : Coastguard Video here from BBC. Am I seeing things, or is that Concorde at 1.37?!!! If so, how ironic! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/78348
50 Pihero : Incorrect. A "flameout" is just that, the flame goes out in the burners. If anything EGT drops to ambient temperature.. What you're referring to is a
51 Flylku : It is quick to determine a bird strike while still in the air. Though I have never experienced it, those who have tell me the resulting smell in the
52 Moose135 : No, you're not seeing things. That is G-BOAD which is on display at the USS Intrepid museum. The A320 came down in the river in the area of the Intre
53 Bongodog1964 : I can't comment on the media reaction in the US, but here in the UK we seem to be experiencing the "it was a miracle the plane floated" approach. We e
54 1821 : Amen to that !!!!!!
55 Post contains links AirbusA370 : I was recently making fun of the A380's safety cards showing the aircraft floating in the sea and wondering about the chances for it to be in one piec
56 Tjc2 : I've not read the last 4 parts of this story. Just out of interest, how deep is the Hudson at this point? Any guesses as to how long it will take to r
57 Max777geek : The leftmost cockpit window visible in many posted pictures is cracked, is that enough of an evidence ?
58 Thrust : Is the plane still flyable? I would presume since the only damage it suffered was the loss of both engines that it could be fixed and repaired.
59 Collettnj : Not after it's been submerged in salt water for a couple of days...a saline environment is very corrosive.
60 Andz : I saw a post from someone who rides a JetSki in that area, in fact he lives right there. He stated that the depth indicator on the JetSki showed arou
61 Skibum9 : CNN was reporting that the depth of the river at that point in the Hudson is 54 feet.
62 Andybancroft : Are they still planning to take the aircraft out of the river at 10.00?
63 PHLJJS : I know that historically airlines retire the flight numbers of flights ending in disaster. What do you think US will do in this case, if anything?
64 Leezyjet : The only time that bird will fly again is when they lift it out of the river. To make it airworthy, would involve stripping it back to the absolute b
65 GoAllegheny : Classic (from Saturday's New York Times internet): Dave Sanderson, 47, a salesman for Oracle, said he saw a woman in her 60s pulling her luggage out o
66 LHR380 : That was caused by rescue boats moving the plane to the side. There is a pic somewhere of the boat that caused it actually doing it.
67 DingDong : My guess? Change from 1549 to something else for a while and let it blow over, then at some point, reuse the flight number again. Rationale is that w
68 DingDong : I'd say perhaps the operators of the nearby bird sanctuaries, but I don't think they have sufficiently deep enough pockets for ambulance chasers to w
69 KPHXFlyer : I recall watching a TLC or History channel special that the A380 has "similar" flight characteristics as the A320. Things like approach speed, turn r
70 Seefivein : Fox News is showing video of the landing from several camera's
71 Ceray : Well, 'The truth be known'. It seems we're all basking in the lack of casualties, the successful evacuation of the passengers, and the obvious skill o
72 OldAeroGuy : In earlier threads it was stated tha Yes they do, a ditching analysis is a certification requirement.
73 Max777geek : Can't recall where I read it, but it sounds reasonably, that the 380 is an upscaled 318 and handles in the same way. That doesn't surprise me, but I
74 Gsosbee : Only a matter of time. There were physical injuries and most will claim traumatic injuries. The defense lawyers will go after US and the airport for
75 Post contains links Nycbjr : NTSB is now reporting the right engine is still attached... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090117/ap_on_re_us/plane_splashdown
76 Max777geek : That would explain why it begin to sunk on the right side, if I remember correctly the left wing hanging higher in the pictures.
77 Khobar : Many, many thanks for that! Funny how no matter how much we know or how old we get, there's always something new to learn each and every day. Thanks!
78 HOOB747 : Good news that they have at least one engine to assist the investigation. And that will be a sight to see the plane on a barge, floating down the Huds
79 Nykr : News now reporting at someone in the Bronx called 911 and reported a "big boom" at 3:29 PM and then saw the plane make the sharp turn. It has also bee
80 AustrianZRH : I read on the online service of Austrian television station ORF that divers are searching for the engines on the riverbed but that chances to find th
81 Threepoint : I guess my point is the handling of the plane at the point of impact (at which point everybody is doing something completely untested and for the fir
82 DingDong : I did read ATC communicated with first responders while they were in the air, but I'm not such so sure the 1549 crew had a chance to tell them they w
83 ZANL188 : How do you know that? How soon did FDNY get a pax manifest from US? FDNY had multiple ferries hauling pax away probably to multiple locations - diffi
84 Threepoint : While litigation is inevitable, those claiming a lawsuit will have the tide of public opinion against them in an almost unprecedented fashion. Hundre
85 Gsosbee : At 16:47Z the NTSB reported - both engines detached. "The FAA later added, it is the left engine missing. Again later the NTSB clarified their previou
86 B747forever : " target=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/ame...3.stm Wow, great video. Thanks. So US 1549 will never more be used?
87 Tommy767 : This is a narrowly avoided catastrophic event saved by amazing piloting and heroic actions on all parts. Congratulations to the pilot and the crew of
88 UltimateDelta : In my local newspaper (Omaha World-Herald) there was an article about the incident, and apparently the controller at LGA advised the pilot to divert t
89 Post contains links AirbusA370 : This video shows the moment it actually touches the water http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/usair.splash.video/index.html The tail hit the water before
90 Argonaut : Thanks for finding and posting this. The camera operator was really on the ball, too. BTW, for a good ROTFL, check out some of the posts that follow
91 D L X : A friend of mine living in the area near LaGuardia has pictures of the birds and bird pieces that fell on her yard when the plane hit the flock over
92 Argonaut : Okay, I made a mess of my last post...don't flame, please!...seems the guy didn't *really* think the plane was flying backwards rj
93 Nykr : I suspect that returning to LGA would have involved a series of turns to line up with the runway as well as very controlled rate of decent all of this
94 Argonaut : Okay, I really made a mess of myself in my last post...don't flame me! It seems the guy didn't *really* think the plane was flying backwards...sorry
95 NYkr : How would your friend, living near LGA, have pictures of birds that fell on her yard after the bird strike if the bird strike occurred over the Bronx
96 Ttailsteve : I read earlier in the thread some questions as to if this was truly a bird strike. Approximately 4 months ago I was on a DL 767 that had to return to
97 Sunstar : FOX just released a new video a few min ago with the entire splash down. Shows the entire water landing.
98 B747forever : Do you have any pics that you can share with us?
99 Post contains links CURLYHEADBOY : CCTV of the splash from another angle released: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f9d_1232215032 Interesting....[Edited 2009-01-17 11:35:56]
100 DeltaWings : Has there been a passenger list revealed yet?
101 Osiris30 : That and the other confirmations that it was a definitive rather than assumed bird strike are plenty good enough for me
102 DocLightning : And a classy landing it was. Looked just like he was landing on a runway until the water started rooster-tailing. Apparently the Captain is got a cal
103 Mirrodie : You know, I've read several comments here and there which have hinted that the Capt. was not a hero. Some seem to want to reward Airbus for the deisgn
104 Post contains links Viscount724 : An Eastern L188 Electra crashed in water just after takeoff from BOS in 1960 after ingesting birds (starlings) causing total or partial power loss in
105 Dragon6172 : Looks like it was the tail and the bottom of the engine cowls that hit first, which I would think is what you are looking for.
106 Comorin : I just got back from the site hoping I'd get a good view and some pics for you guys. Alas all I could see was the tail sticking out, as they had level
107 Threepoint : You may have read one of my comments. I'll come right out and say it again: there are no heroes in this story. There were no miracles that occurred.
108 GQfluffy : What he said. I've been saying the same thing for the last 24 hrs...
109 Mortkork : I was laughing as I was watching the interviews with pax who were talking about how the pilot is a hero and saved their lives. All I could think abou
110 Threepoint : Many of those same passengers will place their names on a lawsuit in a few weeks' time. Sadly, it is inevitable.
111 Litz : I feel quite safe in stating that prior to this accident, most passengers probably thought it was bunk. I'm not ashamed to admit, I was probably one
112 Post contains links JeffSFO : Here's an interesting 3D diagram of the eventual flight route which shows the approximate altitude of the plane relative to the surrounding area (see
113 ZANL188 : Several reports also said a woman had two broken legs... One report I saw this morning said both engines had broken lose and we're being looked for..
114 B747forever : " target=_blank>http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html Wow, great link. Amazing pics and great info.
115 Starlionblue : This happens sometimes. Not in all cases.
116 Post contains links Boeingluvr : I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link yet, and I don't wanna look through all 5 threads so here's the ditching and evac... http://www.youtube.co
117 ScrubbsYWG : Besides all the damage already done to it that will cause it to not fly again, there is one thing i thought of today. This plane is soaked inside and
118 Phileet92 : Including AA01 JFK-LAX in 1962 a 707. today it still operates JFK-LAX 762.
119 Litz : Have they managed to get it out of the water yet? I know the attempt was supposed to start at 2pm, but last I saw on the CNN live feed (before they we
120 Max777geek : Well, that's why they have radars, my best guess.. I wouldn't think a bird passing trough a jet engine preserve its shape coming out looking like coo
121 NIKV69 : May I suggest you turn off the news for awhile. I am sensing somewhere a lot of jealousy and bitterness on your part. Be that as it may you are way o
122 Seafleet : A friend of mine who is a glider pilot has suggested that "Sullies" experience as a glider pilot had a lot to do with the planes attitude that it hit
123 Threepoint : I don't have a TV, but thank you for your concern. No jealousy, no bitterness, just tired of people throwing around terms like 'hero' and 'miracle' e
124 Post contains links Threepoint : CNN has a link to two of the initial 911 calls: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/01/17/ny.plane.911.calls.cnn . What struck me is the accuracy
125 DingDong : That's reasonable enough, but I have to say that in this particular case, the flight AND cabin crew of US 1549 (as well as first responders, includin
126 Post contains links OPNLguy : http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...p/?rn=4226712&cl=11588017&src=news About :35-:40 into it, the aircraft, "a trail of thick white smoke..." Good
127 Post contains links American 767 : I was there this afternoon Jan 17th right at that time, on the Lower West Side of Manhattan. I saw the cranes moving but the aircraft wasn't yet lift
128 Nykr : Considering the first caller to 911 identified his location as East 199th Street and Briggs Ave in the Bronx and seeing the plane overhead with the e
129 AAN777AN : Your comments devalue the lives and intrinsic worth of the 155 people on that aircraft. Respectfully, whether one does something society deems miracu
130 OPNLguy : Why is it that some folks (who happen to take issue with the media's penchant for hyperbole and blatant overkill) are somehow labeled as slamming the
131 STT757 : I'm watching the 10 o'clock news and they went live to the aircraft, they have several rigs hooked up to the aircraft from the crane but it's still in
132 Timz : How much?
133 Dan2002 : It seems like they're doing the lift right now.
134 Post contains links and images Dreyes78 : Wow! I was just on N106US on New Years Eve! I flew on it from New Orleans to Charlotte as I had to connect in CLT on my way to Atlanta. I always write
135 Threepoint : Huh? OPNLguy, thank you. For these comments, for your overall contribution to this board, and for 'getting it'.
136 Spacecadet : The F/O was not flying the plane after the bird strike, when the captain immediately took the controls. That has been established. The F/O was occupi
137 Post contains links YYZTPA : Picture of the lift http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-184404 It appears one engine remains on the wing. http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-184408[Edited 20
138 Post contains links STT757 : For those who are interested, here's the FDNY's Dispatch communications: http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteI...vxClipId=1458_448479&vxBitrate=300 It
139 OPNLguy : Please go back and re-read my cite, i.e. the part where it said TO HEAR THE MEDIA TELL IT, which is the aspect I'm referring to, i.e. the media's tre
140 Post contains links STT757 : Some more information is coming to light, main point about putting the aircraft down in the river vs trying for TEB is that the Pilot felt they were t
141 Mir : He let the captain focus on flying the airplane while he took care of the checklist. Considering how many accidents have been caused because nobody w
142 GQfluffy : Not to mention he was probably scanning the entire time for GA aircraft...handling the radio...and anything else that needed tended. All the captain d
143 B747forever : " target=_blank>http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-184408 wow, nice pics. One thing is for sure, that a/c will never more fly again.
144 Post contains links STT757 : Here some amazing photos from one of the passengers: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183399?ref=feeds%2Fnewsiest The last photo of all the passengers
145 Post contains links KBUF : http://media.nbcchicago.com/images/600*405/AP090117031212.jpg Wow.
146 STT757 : The plane is actually in pretty good shape considering what it's gone through, the landing all those boats banging against the aircraft and being part
147 WNCrew : We know NOTHING of the DEN crash except that everyone survived, and until proven otherwise I'm going to assume that it's to the credit of the pilots
148 B747forever : AMEN to that. On my latest BA flight to LAX one pax couldnt open the lavatory door to get in there until one of the crew helped him!!
149 Starlionblue : Quite. This is similar to the SK MD-80 incident in Gottröra. Both engines failed from ice ingestion and the pilot used his military (and IIRC glider
150 Dragon6172 : Looking at the photo shows the forward cargo hold door open. Do you think it opened on impact or was opened by divers? I thought I had read somewhere
151 Scramjetter : Pilots are trained to land an airplane in such a way that the airplane is ideally stalled as the mains touch. This is usually accomplished with a hig
152 Ocracoke : " target=_blank>http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-184408 I wonder why the foward cargo door is open? I thought the plane floated for so long because al
153 Post contains links STT757 : It's out, click on the view gallery link on the left below the headline. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_wo...To-Land-At-Airport-Pilot-Says.html
154 B747forever : " target=_blank>http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_wo....html The right engine looks really bad, and the left is missing as assumed.
155 Post contains links STT757 : More photos here: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/US-Air...;_ylt=Asn3Sv112P2AsKePEbh5s3xH2ocA
156 PITrules : We don't know how it would have turned out if the FO continued fly the aircraft; it may have turned out just as successful, and it is wrong to assume
157 GQfluffy : Doesn't matter (as I've finally found an article that shows the Sullenberger taking over on stick), it was a team effort. Sullenberger may have been f
158 Spacecadet : Tell it to the F/O, who himself credited Sullenberger with being the "first" to successfully ditch, and did so just after the plane hit the water. (H
159 OldAeroGuy : Not on transport category airplanes. The tail strikes from the resultant high touchdown angles would be a maintenance nightmare. When the mains touch
160 SXDFC : I know this question pops up a lot, but is there a good chance of US maybe replacing 106 with another A320 perhaps from another airline? Does US even
161 Birdwatching : I was wondering, what would have happened if they hadn't evacuated the aircraft and everyone had remained inside with all doors closed, assuming they
162 OPNLguy : The assumption that they "knew" that they were "safe" would have been just that--an assumption--and given that the aircraft sank further into the riv
163 GBan : Maybe people who need their luggage more than others life?
164 Leezyjet : From the Cambridge Dictionaries website :- "hero (PERSON) (plural heroes) Show phonetics noun [C] 1 (FEMALE heroine) a person who is admired for havi
165 Acabgd : Then Airbus must have some wrong information, as in their AD they are pointing to a reduced EGT margin, ie. higher, not lower EGT. Quote: AD 2008-022
166 TristarSteve : A reduced margin is higher EGT. If you have an EGT limit of 800deg and the normal EGT is 700deg then you have a 100deg margin. If the actual EGT is 7
167 Starlionblue : That technique is not used on airliners. It's a general aviation thing. On airliners, speed at touchdown are significantly above stall.
168 Acabgd : Exactly what I said in the previous post:
169 LTBEWR : In the early morning of Sunday, Jan. 18th, the a/c was finally out of the water and on a barge. The 'right' side engine is still on. Many access panel
170 Max777geek : Sounds more reasonable to me it's been opened by divers to let the water out. By the pictures, the tail begin drowning first. And at the ditching mom
171 Post contains links Ellehammer : 50-odd photos of the plane being hoisted out of the river: http://www.bt.dk/apps/pbcs.dll/galle...egori=NYHEDER&Lopenr=116004&Ref=PH
172 Mir : I never assumed that it would end in failure if the FO were doing the flying. I am assuming that it would have ended up a lot worse had the captain h
173 OPNLguy : You're absolutely correct--the other 9,998 USAirways pilots couldn't possibly have had those very same thoughts go through their minds...had it been
174 777jaah : SO right engine still attached to the wing....I thought both engines were on the river bed. That will make the investigation a bit easier for the NTS
175 Pihero : That's what you wrote, describing a flame out. And that's wrong. And I pointed that it was... Or a series of surges, i.e HPC, High Pressure Compresso
176 NCB : The crew had 2 options to weigh, Teterboro or the river. From his seating position, it would have been difficult for the F/O to visually fly the airp
177 Threepoint : For those disappointed that this aircraft wasn't the first to make a successful water landing, perhaps you could take comfort that it's the first doc
178 TTailSteve : >>>> I just said there will be a lawsuit
179 Nycbjr : this would be amazing! then US could sell the remaining parts on ebay and make a few bucks.. I'm betting more than a few of us would probably bid. Ho
180 JBirdAV8r : While an interesting study, the technology to correctly identify radar clutter as a flock of birds isn't really in place. If they can't even get dece
181 DingDong : That'd be nice. But if US files an insurance claim for a writeoff, wouldn't the aircraft with all its parts then become the property of the insurer to
182 ZANL188 : Because the line between "hero" and "villain needing hanging" is often remarkably thin... In this case, all other things being equal, had there been
183 ZANL188 : In which case the U.S. taxpayers should own the remains. I'll take the Capts Seat please....
184 Acabgd : If I remember correctly this is the third time in a completely random thread you routinely try to negate what I say, for whatever reason that might b
185 AirbusA370 : Didn't anyone think of some kind of BCAS (Bird Collision Avoidance System), yet? If not, the idea is mine!!
186 Kiwiandrew : that's a great idea , once you personally have fitted every bird in the world with the necessary transponder most of them will be completely unable t
187 Scramjetter : Yes. I am aware of that. As I went on to say:
188 Post contains images Nycbjr : how about fitting those little deer avoiding thing's like u put on your front bumper that send out a high pitch sound? hahahaha [Edited 2009-01-18 10
189 Par13del : To my knowledge, this would have to be patterned after the deflector shield used on the Enterprize Starship, so no money for you, the principle alrea
190 Nomadd22 : AP is reporting that the pilots failed to hit the ditch switch. Not that the media is ever in any way imperfect in it's reporting or expertise. Maybe
191 TTailSteve : >>But reporting huge flocks of birds isn't like forecasting/reporting windshear.
192 Kiwiandrew : just as well for the Canadians that Dubya is gone - I can see him now authorising an attack on Canada for harbouring WMD ( Wildlife of Mass Destructi
193 Post contains links Hywel : Has anyone seen this video on BBC News? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7834499.stm Parts of it made me cringe...
194 Max777geek : if such a geese show up in a radar, that will be not bird strike by the airplane, but mid air collision, or plane strike for the geese. The system is
195 Post contains links DingDong : Is the EWGPS unit the QAR? If not, what is its function? I see this: http://media.star-telegram.com/smedi...f.standalone.prod_affiliate.58.jpg Bottom
196 FrmrCAPCADET : "hero" and "miracle" are obvious moral or religious terms. They also have a slew of more secular meanings, as well as just about every speaker having
197 Pihero : The departure radar only picks up the transponder responses. A good -and not so good- primary radar operator csn easily identify birds...That's the r
198 DingDong : Thank you very much, Mr. Pihero. I have enjoyed reading your contributions from over the years. This situation confuses me because the U.S. media con
199 Threepoint : Initial reports suggest that they were only partially through their checklists at the time of landing. That item as I understand it is near the end o
200 DingDong : Touché.
201 TristarSteve : Try spelling it correctly EGPWS then google will work
202 Starlionblue : Not that I know what went through their minds but I imagine that given the short timescale involved they were a bit too busy to think about death at
203 Mir : It doesn't. The FO and captain have equally good visibility out the front and about 45 degrees to either side. If the captain took control, it's beca
204 Pihero : One of these acronyms that got changed due to "easiness" of pronunciation, I guess : "You GPS" is a lot easier to say than E.G.P.W.S... I've seen the
205 DocLightning : All of us are potential heroes. Not all of us get the chance to prove it. When that chance comes, be hero if you want to be one. The trick is that yo
206 B707forever : I was just listening to the the federal lady report the early findings from the tape. If this is already posted, forgive me. Anyway, it is clear both
207 YULWinterSkies : "With this miraculous event, let's hope that will be the beginning of the end of US Airways bashing on A.net." (quoted from thread 4). I have nothing
208 Glideslope : " True Knowledge is knowing when you know nothing." Confucious.
209 Viscount724 : They have in the past (not counting those inherited from merger partners), including about 10 ex-Eastern 757s, a similar number of ex-UA 727-100s, an
210 D L X : Sue for what? making you cold for about 10 minutes? Yeah, you're not going to get much for that. Scaring me into thinking I'm going to die? Nothing a
211 Max777geek : How do you say they were on one engine ? The left engine detached after the waterland, prior to that moment nobody knows as now if and how much thrus
212 BuyantUkhaa : Max777geek was referring to the A320 becoming "airborne" again when being lifted onto the barge, with one engine and a "bit" of water. About that wat
213 Post contains links D L X : Birds and bird pieces in my friend's yard: http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/D_L_X/US%20Airways%20Bird/
214 ZANL188 : Has your friend notified the authorities? It's evidence if it was involved with the aircraft.
215 ScrubbsYWG : he said in post 210 that the FBI has been over several times.
216 Post contains links WCS : Hi all, I'm in NYC right now and I was able to grab these pictures among others with my brother this morning. The scene is totally locked by NYPD, but
217 Threepoint : Folks, my evidently-eccentric humour seems to have been lost to some. Of course the million pounds included the water and whatever old tires, mob bos
218 Nykr : DLX ... I agree with you comment about not making conclusions before we get all the evidence. Very interesting....where does your friend live? The th
219 Post contains links HB-IWC : This thread has reached critical length. Please continue the discussion in installment 6, which may be found here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-f
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