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FL 737 LAX Takeoff Question  
User currently offlineDLlaxPride From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 17 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Have any LAX Spotters out the noticed FL's 737 takeoff rolls. They are consistently rotating down there with Asia bound 744s! I know they are ATL bound but in all my years at LAX I've never seen a 737-700 use so much runway. Is it their engine type, heavy cargo load, fuel load or what? These are full length takeoffs, any info appreciated.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25055 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Its called de-rate take off's. Basically apply the minimum engine power required.

Saves airlines $$, and engine life.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDLlaxPride From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Interesting, surprised to not see more airlines doing it. Appreciate the info.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

Maybe that explains why last August, when I flew FL on LAX-BWI, we didn't take off on 24L which is so close to T3. It was midnight, and there was not much traffic, so I would think the closer runway would have been available. We taxiied all the way down to 25R, and took off right after a Cathay Pacific 744!

Jim



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User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 763 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3659 times:



Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 2):
Interesting, surprised to not see more airlines doing it. Appreciate the info.

All airlines use de-rated takeoffs when possible.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 3):
Maybe that explains why last August, when I flew FL on LAX-BWI, we didn't take off on 24L which is so close to T3. It was midnight, and there was not much traffic, so I would think the closer runway would have been available. We taxiied all the way down to 25R, and took off right after a Cathay Pacific 744!

Jim

Late at night probably noise abatement or runway shut down for inspections.


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9900 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3630 times:
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Quoting DLlaxPride (Thread starter):
Have any LAX Spotters out the noticed FL's 737 takeoff rolls. They are consistently rotating down there with Asia bound 744s! I know they are ATL bound but in all my years at LAX I've never seen a 737-700 use so much runway

LAX-ATL is a pretty long flight for a 737. No surprise that it would use a significant distance for its takeoff.

Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 2):
Interesting, surprised to not see more airlines doing it. Appreciate the info.

Many airlines (probably most) do utilize derates.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 4):
Late at night probably noise abatement or runway shut down for inspections.

Definitely could be noise. Might also be easier for approach and tower, late at night, to just use one runway complex. The longer runway could also afford an increased derate.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25055 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3569 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 3):
when I flew FL on LAX-BWI, we didn't take off on 24L which is so close to T3. It was midnight, and there was not much traffic, so I would think the closer runway would have been available. We taxiied all the way down to 25R, and took off right after a Cathay Pacific 744!

Generally between midnight and 6am, LAX goes to all over-water ops.

Take-offs on the 25 complex and landings on the 06's.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3524 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 5):
LAX-ATL is a pretty long flight for a 737. No surprise that it would use a significant distance for its takeoff.

This is just not true, especially for a 73G. 738 and 73G regularly did LAX & SNA to HNL, which is 2245nm. LAX-ATL is only 1691 nm. Definitely not a stretch or problem for the 73G. Don't forget, CO uses 738s on our EWR-LAX runs, which are significantly longer than LAX-ATL.

Brian
CO@LAX



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6003 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 7):
This is just not true, especially for a 73G. 738 and 73G regularly did LAX & SNA to HNL, which is 2245nm.

You must realize that for a given runway, you must be light enough to actually takeoff from it, so it's not the takeoff distance required that's the issue, but rather, how heavy can they be for a given takeoff distance.

[Edited 2009-01-17 03:52:16]


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User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3463 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 5):
LAX-ATL is a pretty long flight for a 737. No surprise that it would use a significant distance for its takeoff.

Its not that long when you consider 737's use to fly routinely from HNL to California. WS uses the 737 for its flights to Hawaii from YVR and AS uses them to fly from SEA to Hawaii.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

For some reason I can't paste the video in here directly anymore, but check out the link below. FL 73G DFW-ATL, flaps 1 takeoff. It was a pretty long roll...one of the longest, if not the longest, 737 takeoffs I've experienced anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjOY0ebmDqE


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3327 times:



Quoting DualQual (Reply 4):

WN and SQ don't.........


User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3296 times:
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Its also worth noting that FL uses the lowest thrust option CFM56 available on the 737NGs, at 20k thrust on each side. I believe WN uses the 22k thrust option powerplants.

FL 73Gs typically use large ammounts of runway real estate here at PHL with those derated takeoffs (and they only go to ATL or MCO). I've seen a few depart 9L and not rotate until around the Runway 17/35 intersection, which puts the takeoff roll in the 8000-8500 foot ballpark.



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User currently offlineRuslan From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

There are a lot of de-rated takeoffs of the FL 737s at ATL as well. always see a few off 26 L and 27 R, even if those from the latter are headed to MCO..

User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1186 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

I know of FL's 717's having rather long takeoff runs as well; both the 73G and 717 are known for their sprightly T/O and climb performance so as the other posters have been saying, just a highly derated takeoff. I've noticed WN 73G's also derate quite a bit on takeoff, enough that there is a thrust increase right after takeoff to climb power (rather than the typical power cutback).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lv1Oyl2dgw
Notice in this video of an FL 73G that the T/O setting is so low that its characteristic buzzsaw sound is absent until it increases to climb thrust

[Edited 2009-01-18 19:41:33]

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

My dad says that they can takeoff with only 77% power with derated takeoffs. Thats pretty impressive and must save a lot of fuel.


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinePanther From Bahamas, joined Jun 2000, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

FL B73G's use derated power for takeoff and full power climb.

FL B712's use derated power for takeoff and derated climb power til 18000' then full power climb to cruising alt.

Climb power activated appox. 1500' agl

These are agreements made with the engine manufactures and maintenece programs. Saves fuel and maintence cost.


User currently offlineHeavyMx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2651 times:



Quoting Wagz (Reply 12):
Its also worth noting that FL uses the lowest thrust option CFM56 available on the 737NGs, at 20k thrust on each side.

FL also have some config. w/22k.



I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4195 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2589 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 11):
WN and SQ don't.........

I was on LH recently and they don't seem to worry about these things as their take offs were fairly rapid and when they land and they seem to try for the first taxi way on landing



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9900 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2492 times:
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Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 7):
This is just not true, especially for a 73G. 738 and 73G regularly did LAX & SNA to HNL, which is 2245nm. LAX-ATL is only 1691 nm.



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 9):

Its not that long when you consider 737's use to fly routinely from HNL to California. WS uses the 737 for its flights to Hawaii from YVR and AS uses them to fly from SEA to Hawaii.

Yes, you guys are correct. My apologies - I wrote without really thinking it through.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2480 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Generally between midnight and 6am, LAX goes to all over-water ops.

With the exception of a few redeyes to places like MSP.


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9900 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2355 times:
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Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 20):

With the exception of a few redeyes to places like MSP.

What do you mean?

LAX typically takes off over water, during the day as well as at night.

At night, it's the landings that switch to over-water. I'd be surprised if they allowed any takeoffs over land in the middle of the night.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2320 times:



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 8):
Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 7):
This is just not true, especially for a 73G. 738 and 73G regularly did LAX & SNA to HNL, which is 2245nm.

You must realize that for a given runway, you must be light enough to actually takeoff from it, so it's not the takeoff distance required that's the issue, but rather, how heavy can they be for a given takeoff distance.

I'm hoping that you simply mis-quoted me. I know that planes must be "light enough to actually take off from it." Working for CO, we don't have any problems taking off from LAX's runways. Not really applicable to my discussion.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 21):

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 20):

With the exception of a few redeyes to places like MSP.

What do you mean?

LAX typically takes off over water, during the day as well as at night.

At night, it's the landings that switch to over-water. I'd be surprised if they allowed any takeoffs over land in the middle of the night.

I think that Vikky mis-intrepreted what you meant. I'm thinking she went for most of the LAX Red-eyes were Trans-Pacs, with the exception of a few to MSP. I'm thinking she's confusing destinations with take-off clearances.



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6003 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2295 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 22):
I'm hoping that you simply mis-quoted me. I know that planes must be "light enough to actually take off from it." Working for CO, we don't have any problems taking off from LAX's runways. Not really applicable to my discussion.

I was not misquoting you. I was simply stating fact. Your 737's may not have any issue taking off from the runways at LAX. In fact, most all aircraft will have no issue taking off full weight from LAX. However, you mentioned SNA, which is NOT LAX. Planes constantly get weight restricted out of that airport.



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User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9900 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2293 times:
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Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 22):
I think that Vikky mis-intrepreted what you meant. I'm thinking she went for most of the LAX Red-eyes were Trans-Pacs, with the exception of a few to MSP. I'm thinking she's confusing destinations with take-off clearances.

I don't think I misinterpreted anything (and I'm a "he", by the way  Smile ).

Perhaps VC10DC10 misinterpreted what LAXIntl was saying. By "over-water ops", he was referring to LAX both taking off and landing over-water during the overnight hours.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
25 VC10DC10 : Ah, all right, now I see what's going on... mea culpa.
26 RandyWaldron : No one has given you a 100% correct answer to this question, so here it is. AirTran uses the "double derate" philosophy when calculating their N1 val
27 73G : FL also implemented a policy in late 2007 or early 2008 of not using reverse thrust during landing with the 737's. The procedure is to unlock the cowl
28 ThrottleHold : 737's can also use a procedure called ICP (Increased Climb Performance). This results in very long take-off rolls and high speeds on long runways. I'v
29 SPREE34 : "Full power", or FMC directed "Climb power"? How could you tell it wasn't 2,5, or 10 from back there?
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