Jush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 4 Posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4225 times:
Hi to all of you,
Regarding the nice landing in the Hudson river I remembered an article of German Sueddeutsche newspaper where they said that the Airport Trieste is bird free since 22 years because they have a falconer.
"One hawk clear the sky over several square kilometers of land in several minutes and can keep it the whole day."
Should other airport operators think about the move to get a falconer?
Many airports have hunters who shoot birds or scare them away. But what Trieste and other airports were experiencing is that birds get used to scare methods and don't even bother to leave for a minute.
So there seems to be an easy solution for a scary problem which should be assessed.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4397 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4217 times:
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4397 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4196 times:
Quoting Jush (Reply 2): That of course would be a very tragic event but would be much more unlikely than hitting a flock of geese or other birds.
True, though your average hawk is a lot larger than a goose....considerable damage potential, even if the statistical likelihood of an impact is lower.
ZAG uses hawks to chase away various birds and generally hunt for vermin. There's a special falconer team handling the bird, which releases them only when there is no traffic (in full coordination with other airport services). There has never been either a hawkstrike or any-other-birdstrike here.
Frostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 394 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4140 times:
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 3): True, though your average hawk is a lot larger than a goose....considerable damage potential, even if the statistical likelihood of an impact is lower.
Not true. Typical Canada Geese weigh a lot more than any falcon or hawk that would be used for bird airstrike hazard (BASH) abatement. Geese present the highest BASH risk by far at most airports. Raptors are certainly large enough to cause an engine failure, but the odds of ingestion are exceedingly small (compared to flocking species) particularly if the raptor in question is a captive falconry bird - you only fly the bird during lulls in aircraft ops.
I think the idea of using falconers is a great idea, and is much more likely to be effective than "traditional" hazing methods (e.g., noisemakers, cracker shells), although the above cited example of Trieste sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. In any event, some places will always be more subject to BASH than others, depending on the habitats that are present near the airport.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1981 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 3): True, though your average hawk is a lot larger than a goose....considerable damage potential, even if the statistical likelihood of an impact is lower.
What kind of hawks and geese do you have in your neighborhood?
But seriously, while common North American usage includes most or all of the small or medium sized Accipitridae as "hawks", very few of the larger birds are likely to want to hang around airports. Essentially everything we call "hawks" (and not eagles, buzzards, kites...) is under 5lbs
The most common in NA, the Red Tailed, get to about 3.5lbs.
Since the OP is from Europe, he actual means Accipitrinae (which excludes thinks like eagles - and somewhat oddly, the most common North American "hawk" - the Red Tail, which is technically a buzzard), and in looser usage includes falcons and a few other modest sized birds. The largest common species being about 4.5lbs.
There are many geese larger than that, including, especially, our local favorite the Canadian Goose, the adult males of which typically weighing 7-14lbs.
Even the biggest eagles, though, only get to about 20 lbs, so they're not that much larger than Geese. The local favorites, old baldy, gets to about 15lbs.
And of course you almost never see any of these in a flock of any numbers. So even if you hit one, it's *really* unlikely that you hit two, and loose both engines.
But a few established Red Tailed or Cooper's hawks will discourage geese from nesting - while neither can do much to a goose, both will take goslings, at least the smaller ones. They will both, how ever do wonders for the smaller bird population.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4044 times:
I have noticed that during peak migratory periods, that there is a "Falcon Truck" that comes around JFK. IIRC, the guy has a few falcons that he lets loose and they keep the birds away.
In our hangar, we have an electronic "Birds of Prey" system that makes the calls of various birds of prey and that has reduced the number of birds in the hangar.
The big problem is (around here at least) that many airports have parks, beaches and wildlife sanctuaries nearby. You can't scare away wildlife from a sanctuary LOL! One of the more severe bird strikes that I have seen lately involved one of our a/c that was still quite a bit AWAY from the airport and had multiple strikes to the aircraft (it was a mess, double engine change, radome change, cowling changes, quite a few slats changed out too). Birds will remain a hazard as long as they are around...
~H81
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
Acey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1334 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4034 times:
I almost hit a hawk about a month ago when my instructor and I were practicing single-engine go-arounds. It was so close that I had to very aggressively pitch down to avoid it and we were still close. I guess he just wasn't paying attention.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1981 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4004 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 11): Quoting Rwessel (Reply 7):
the Red Tail, which is technically a buzzard),
?????How so???
They're Buteo jamaicensis. Buteo == buzzard. Although we always call them hawks in North America.
FWIW, true hawks are Accipiters, for example the (common in NA) Cooper's Hawk - Accipiter cooperii.
Common usage of the word hawk is not very consistent, and varies greatly around the world, and often bears only modest relationship to the "real" taxonomy.
NIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3989 times:
Red Tailed hawks won't go near a Canada Goose, in fact I don't think the Canada or the smaller Brant have any natural predators. I saw a huge Canada Goose whack our Border Collie in the face when she got too close the goslings. Nasty, those things can take out just about anything if you get hem pissed. Hawks and Falcons can control the pigeons and smaller birds but an airport like LGA will always be in the vicinity of those geese.
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 7): But a few established Red Tailed or Cooper's hawks will discourage geese from nesting - while neither can do much to a goose, both will take goslings, at least the smaller ones. They will both, how ever do wonders for the smaller bird population
I think this is rare, Red tailed hawks prefer rodents and will only go after smaller birds such as sparrows if they have to. In fact the only birds of prey near water are Ospreys which don't go near anything but fish.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4397 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3989 times:
Mbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 785 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3974 times:
Quoting CLE757 (Reply 4): We have several hawks that hang out by CLE.
And falcons as well, who nest in the bridges over the Rocky River. Unfortunately, neither of which could manage to do anything about the scourge of starlings pooping up the arrivals area.
Any clue what, if anything, BKL has done about the seagulls since the Thunderbirds tragedy? I think the coyotes from the nearby reclaimed space north of the runways manage the geese, but the gulls are still everywhere.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
ZuluLima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 266 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3951 times:
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13): I think this is rare, Red tailed hawks prefer rodents and will only go after smaller birds such as sparrows if they have to.
This seems to be the case here at DFW. We have hundreds of what I think are red tail hawks and tens of thousands of other birds. The hawks mostly hunt mice and the grackles and doves only give them a modest amount of airspace. They also use trucks, cracker shells, rockets, and injured bird noises, but nothing keeps the flocking birds away.
This is maybe 25% of just one flock (around 850 visible):
Dazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2566 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
We've used Hawks to keep sea gulls away for years, it's nothing new! I'm sure they could be applied to an airport as long as the traffic wasn't too congested so you could allow the Hawk to swoop around while nothing (aircrat) was too close to the airport. It'll probaby never happen though.
Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
Mbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 785 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3908 times:
What we also need to remember is that this goose strike did not happen on airport property but over another part of NYC. As such, I do not think there is much that can or could have been done to prevent it.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
Frostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 394 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3903 times:
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 12): Common usage of the word hawk is not very consistent, and varies greatly around the world, and often bears only modest relationship to the "real" taxonomy.
Well put, great to see there is another ornithologist/birder type person on the forum.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13): Red Tailed hawks won't go near a Canada Goose, in fact I don't think the Canada or the smaller Brant have any natural predators.
True, adult Canada geese generally don't have much to worry about in the way of avian predators. I have seen adult geese (relatively small Canada/Cackling and Greater White-fronted) taken by raptors on a few of occasions, but this is more the exception than the rule. The use of falconry birds is not likely to help much with geese but could be helpful for smaller species that pose BASH risks.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13): In fact the only birds of prey near water are Ospreys which don't go near anything but fish.
Don't overlook Bald Eagles. Peregrines (among others) also frequent shoreline areas because there tend to be a lot of birds around. But I digress...
Thestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
But the birdstrike in New Yok was nowhere near the airport, it was all the way over in the Bronx. The only way that accident could have been prevented would be to have hawks flying over ALL of New York's airspace . . . which just isnt possible !!!
Olympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3684 times:
I had a rather too close encounter with a Turkey Vulture many years ago. I was flying a Piper PA-18 Super Cub, towing a Schweitzer 2-22 training glider when this bird appeared directly in front of me. I couldn't take avoiding action, because of the glider, but when I was within 100' of the bird it decided to get out of my way. It did something like a fighter break - flipping almost on its back and then diving straight down. Turkey Vultures (sometimes mistakenly called Turkey Buzzards) with their 6 foot wing span are definitely not what one wants to have join one in the cockpit!
26 TheCol: There is a family of Bald Eagles that hang around YVR quite a bit. I travel on the Canadian Service Rd everyday, and rarely see other birds flying aro
27 Frostbite: True. One factor that made the US Airways incident survivable was that the bird strikes did not occur in the immediate vicinity of the airport, when
28 SANMAN66: I never could understand why birds like to hang out around major airports.You'd think the jet engine noises would be enough to keep them away.The nois
29 SANMAN66: I never could understand why birds like to hang out around major airports.You'd think the jet engine noises would be enough to keep them away.The nois
30 Connies4ever: Dad used to go on the initial post-mx flight for AC's Viscount fleet in the 60s & 70s when he was signing the a/c out of the barn. During migration s
31 SANMAN66: I didn't know birds could fly that high! It just amazes me that a bird could bring down something as large as 747. That's funny! OOPS! I double poste
32 Revelation: Presumably it's lack of better habitat. I'm surprised there aren't more bird strikes at JFK, given that it's surrounded by wildlife sanctuaries.
33 Mmedford: As someone mentioned above, PANYNJ, has falconers that stop by pretty regularly on the field. Also during the summer months USDA Shooters come out to
34 Contrails15: At JFK which has the biggest problem with birds other then DCA in the US, they use everything from shooting off cannons, to loud speakers to Hawks. Al
35 Connies4ever: Doesn't BOS have a real serious starling problem as well ? I can just remember the Electra crash from long ago.
36 JJJ: Over 25 Spanish airports use hawks or other birds of prey. MAD alone has over 70 hawks on site. On AGP they use both hawks and eagles because it takes
37 Frostbite: Indeed, 37,000 feet is outrageously high. If I am not mistaken, that airstrike incident established the maximum known altitude of bird flight. Many t
38 Mbm3: I was all over BKL during my days assisting with the Cleveland Grand Prix and enjoyed seeing some of the interesting wild life that enjoyed the prairi
39 Mayor: IIRC, McDonnell Douglas used to have a cannon that they used to shoot frozen chickens at the windshields of a/c to test their strength.
40 NIKV69: Actually JFK and LGA's biggest problem which was driven home with Cactus 1549 is the Canada Goose. Hawks and the other methods will cure the pigeons
41 Alianza: In New Jersey, there is a ballfield at a park or school that had a problem with geese. Thye put up a few wooden profile "cut outs" of dogs, painted bl
42 PC12Fan: Or a more attractive one. In some cases, it's more attractive because of a more available food source. Mice, voles, etc.
43 F35: I was flying yesterday, someone had warned me of a bird on the runway. I was landing on the runway, and on the center line was a 4-5 foot tall crane o
44 NIKV69: Golf couurses use this too in addition to owning Border Collies. It helps a bit.
45 Rwessel: Don't be too quick to rule it out. Bald Eagles are expanding back into much of their historical range, which *does* include the NYC area. I've actual
46 Ikramerica: That's part of the problem. Environmentalists insist on designating sanctuaries near airports all over our country, which not only brings birds to th
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From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, 
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That of course would be a very tragic event but would be much more unlikely than hitting a flock of geese or other birds.
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From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2566 posts, 
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