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UA Premium Service From IAD?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2986 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8130 times:
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Given the success of p.s. from jfk that make it a) best transcon service b) feeds NYC to Asia flights, why doesn't UA start p.s. to IAD. This way it can feed the west coast to all the international routes from IAD especially GRU, GIG, ZRH and EZE etc.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8112 times:



Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Given the success of p.s. from jfk that make it a) best transcon service b) feeds NYC to Asia flights, why doesn't UA start p.s. to IAD. This way it can feed the west coast to all the international routes from IAD especially GRU, GIG, ZRH and EZE etc.

1.) NYC-LAX/SFO is a unique market in the US where this type of premium service can work, there's just not that kind of demand anywhere else.

2.) UA's PS 757-200s have the same seating capacity as their 737-500s which are the smallest aircraft in their fleet, IAD and LAX are two UA hubs so the PS 757-200s don't make sense because of their small capacity. To equal the capacity UA currently enjoys between IAD and LAX/SFO they would need to be running an hourly PS shuttle to LAX and SFO, 20+ daily frequencies to LAX and SFO each which just doesn't make sense.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8093 times:

Three simple answers;
1) IAD does not have as much premium domestic traffic as NYC, or even BOS
2) Throwing a few p.s. flights on SFO/LAX to IAD routes would overlap non-p.s. service and create product confusion. UA has been careful not to mix match product offerings (eg TED and mainline on same routes)
3) IAD is primarily a East-West transit hub for Atlantic flying. This requires capacity. Small p.s. planes would not provide half the needed seat capacity.

Now if for instance the perimeter rule in DCA is abolished for good, UA could then operate 2-3 p.s. transcons successfully from it I would estimate.

The only other markets I could have seen p.s. was BOS or other regional SoCal airports like SNA/BUR (UA came within a hair of starting BUR service prior to last summers oil run up).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8076 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
The only other markets I could have seen p.s. was BOS or other regional SoCal airports like SNA/BUR (UA came within a hair of starting BUR service prior to last summers oil run up).

The only other PS routes I could see would be BOS-LAX, BOS-SFO and maybe a JFK-BUR .
But under these current economic conditions who knows.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePlatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

I have always said why not LAX/SFO-EWR? Specially with the friendly code-share with CO. Two products to choose from with 2 different brands so no confusion. It would feed the Atlantic routes for CO and Asia flights for UA, and also serves as an alternative to JFK. I'm not talking as many flights, maybe a couple along with a red eye.


Never forget United 93
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2986 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7943 times:
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Interesting about the load factors. I guess I figured with all the great destinations UA has from IAD it seemed logical.
In any case, I guess i consider myself lucky to live in NYC and i would NEVER consider any other transcon other than UA p.s. It is so much better than anything else. It's stunning. I could live on that plane in biz or first.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinePlatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7932 times:



Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):
I guess i consider myself lucky to live in NYC and i would NEVER consider any other transcon other than UA p.s. It is so much better than anything else. It's stunning. I could live on that plane in biz or first.

 highfive  In my UA days i used to Non-Rev on these flights and take day trips to NY. I think by far it is UA's best product. Now with Wi-Fi  faint 



Never forget United 93
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21867 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7745 times:



Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 4):
I have always said why not LAX/SFO-EWR? Specially with the friendly code-share with CO. Two products to choose from with 2 different brands so no confusion.

They didn't have the code-share when they started p.s. And UA decided that they were going to differentiate their NYC transcon product into p.s. and regular. Since JFK is still seen as the more premium airport, and since UA has a well-established terminal there, it made sense to pick JFK for p.s. and give EWR the regular UA flights.

I still don't think you'll see p.s. move to EWR with the new agreement with CO. CO serves most of the really important Asia destinations nonstop from EWR anyway, so there wouldn't be as much feed there. And p.s. works well because there aren't hubs on both ends, so there is no need for a lot of capacity. Switching to EWR would defeat that logic.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7725 times:



Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):
It is so much better than anything else. It's stunning. I could live on that plane in biz or first.

I've never flown F or C on UA ps before, but I daresay VX F is comparable, and VX and even DL is superior to ps in Y.

That said, if UA has a competitive price to either, I am more than happy to fly ps... Mileage Plus loyalty  Smile



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Once the CO&UA partnership is in place I could see UA even moving out of EWR completely. CO is well equipped to serve all markets from EWR.

User currently offlineCOGlobeTrotter From United States of America, joined May 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7655 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
CO serves most of the really important Asia destinations nonstop from EWR anyway

Very true. It would be easier for a CO passenger to fly EWR to NRT or HKG & connect there for UA service to Asian destinations not served by CO.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21867 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7645 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 8):
VX and even DL is superior to ps in Y.

I've never flown VX, but I'd take p.s. over DL any day of the week. There is no substitute for extra legroom.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7428 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
I've never flown VX, but I'd take p.s. over DL any day of the week. There is no substitute for extra legroom.

While I don't have the numbers in front of me, IIRC UA enjoys a significant yield premium over DL on JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO. It seems that you are in the majority.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7367 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Now if for instance the perimeter rule in DCA is abolished for good, UA could then operate 2-3 p.s. transcons successfully from it I would estimate.

Every once in a while, you hear brilliant suggestions on a*net. This is a brilliant suggestion.
In addtion, I'm sure California congress people would love this.  goodvibes 


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7196 times:

I think the biggest issue is aircraft availability. 757s aren't easy to come by nowadays.

User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6933 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6867 times:



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 9):
Once the CO&UA partnership is in place I could see UA even moving out of EWR completely. CO is well equipped to serve all markets from EWR.

This is unlikely. UA will continue to serve ORD/SFO/DEN from EWR even with the codeshare in place. I would really like to see mainline service from EWR-IAD.

I'd say a bigger possibility is if the transcons from LGA are allowed, you might see UA take PS to LGA and then ditch JFK completely.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21867 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6418 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
IIRC UA enjoys a significant yield premium over DL on JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO.

It seems like DL has pretty much given up on the NYC-SFO/LAX premium O&D markets (SFO more than LAX). All they're after is international connections.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6329 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
It seems like DL has pretty much given up on the NYC-SFO/LAX premium O&D markets (SFO more than LAX). All they're after is international connections

 checkmark It's strange to me. They keep LGA-MDW around despite almost no local following in Chicago; if they can succeed there, it seems like they ought to be able to do something in NYC-California.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21867 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6076 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
They keep LGA-MDW around despite almost no local following in Chicago; if they can succeed there, it seems like they ought to be able to do something in NYC-California.

Theory: There's enough NYC-Chicago demand that while DL would get killed on LGA-ORD competing with UA and AA, a monopoly on LGA-MDW works. We'll see how long it lasts once WN enters the picture.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Once flights from DCA to LAX/SFO are allowed, I could definitely see 2-3x daily p.s. 757's on those routes.


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineGoodbye From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 913 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5438 times:

What does PS stand for?

User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5347 times:



Quoting Goodbye (Reply 20):
What does PS stand for?

PS= Premium Services



Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4414 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
UA came within a hair of starting BUR service prior to last summers oil run up).

Really? From where?



LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offlinePanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

Don't forget, Washington traffic is made up of a lot of government employee and government-reimbursable contractor travel, both from IAD and DCA. Politically, authorizing premium class service for these people isn't going to fly.

Yes, most congressmen and woman would love it, but see if Congressman Flake or Senator Coburn would ever allow GSA to approve it. I doubt it.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4280 times:



Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 22):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
UA came within a hair of starting BUR service prior to last summers oil run up).

Really? From where?

Most definitely JFK, UA has the NBC contract IIRC. I remember hearing Keith Olberman discussing his UA PS flights into JFK one night.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 Xxcr : i must say SFO/LAX-JFK has the best service!! i flew F and C and i'll tell you its different. doesn't feel united!! XXCR
26 Cubsrule : It'll really depend on how well WN captures the NYC-originating traffic. DL is content to take a bath on the Chicago-originating traffic because they
27 United1 : The NY ones might be willing to but UA/AA have a huge following in CA especially when it comes to transcontinental flights and Joe/Jane traveler are
28 VC10er : For those who's primary travel schedule has them bouncing to/from NY/ LA / SF (sometimes weekly) in paid business or first would clearly abandon anyth
29 Cubsrule : But all of that's true in Chicago too. Business travel makes CHI-LGA, and practically no one in Chicago is loyal to DL. There's something else going
30 AADC10 : Another reason UA is unlikely to start dedicated p.s. service to IAD is that they use International aircraft repositioning flights to connect LAX/SFO/
31 United787 : What is the perimeter rule?
32 San747 : It's a statue at DCA and LGA limiting airlines to flying routes of 1500 miles or less, with some exceptions, like DEN-LGA/DCA by F9 and LAX/SEA-DCA b
33 Viscount724 : It's 1250 miles at DCA.
34 RJpieces : Indeed. If the perimeter rule at DCA was to be abolished, I think you'd see AA & UA jump into the premium market fairly quickly. It would be a gold m
35 Mir : The perimeters at LGA and DCA work in different ways. DCA has a limited number of slots for exemptions, which is how AS winds up with LAX and SEA fli
36 BDL2STL2PVG : I think AA is in upping the game currently. With the 767s being refurbished with new interior treatments, with the new lie flat seat in F/C (well, di
37 Ualflyer : I think we need a revival of the BUR-IAD. It was done by JetBlue last summer but discontinued after they did not have many travelers. I loved it! Do y
38 Davescj : I think DCA will not see PS service. I simply can't see the $$ there. Had UA still the hub in MIA, that would have been a better shot I think. As a ni
39 EXAAUADL : I dont think anyone has said the obvious:: UA is already the #1 carrier on IAD-LAX/SFO. UA was really struggling on JFK-LAX and lesser SFO before PS.
40 San747 : Well AS still does... that's gotta mean something?
41 RJpieces : TW only did it for a short while before AA bought them. AS only operates one daily flight, and it's at off-times (the LAX-DCA leg anyway). Plus AS pr
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