Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NZ/XL Crash Part 2  
User currently offlineTwinotter4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

It seems that Honeywell has been able to extract information from the CVR and FDR of the NZ/XL plane. Seems there is some indication of possible control issues with the aircraft. Thing are still not clear. However it seems that they will not be able to simply leave the plane be on the seabed on this one. This investigation may take some time. It seems that the aircraft had a sudden increase in power and pitch and then the aircraft stalled and a wing dropped (stall induced?) then crashed into the sea in short order, all as they were preparing for landing with the control issues. Pilots were "screaming" according to the article on Flights web article, must have been pretty bad. Disturbing to say the least.

RIP to the crew and company


link here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...led-before-crash-investigator.html

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12265 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4962 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Cause of Airbus crash unlikely to be known for weeks


It is likely to be several more weeks before the cause of the fatal crash of an Air New Zealand Airbus A320 off the French coast seven weeks ago is known.


Five New Zealanders and two Germans died in the crash.

Air NZ chief executive Rob Fyfe said today he had spoken with chief prosecutor Jean-Pierre Dreno who made it clear the cause was not yet known.

"He made it quite clear to me that there are several more weeks of detailed analysis required before the investigating team has a clear idea of a likely cause," Mr Fyfe said.

Mr Fyfe was told investigators were clear on the flight path and knew power was applied to the engines, but did not know how or why.

TV3 last night reported Mr Dreno as saying the cockpit voice recorder revealed the pilots were having trouble controlling the plane. It then caught the scream of the pilot just before impact.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4822671a11.html


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Wonder if they had unsymmetrical flap/slat deployment ? Not uncommon to have power increase when flap is deployed due to the drag, and would explain the wing roll.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

As has been posted in another thread, the flight carrying the victims is arriving in AKL tomorrow at 11:00am on NZ38. It will be unloaded of passengers then towed to the hanger for the NZ whanau to pay their respects. I will be heading to the airport tomorrow to watch the aircraft fly in and to pay my respects as it flys over head.


-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

May be possibly some sort of elevator sticking or failure, that they were fighting causing a strong pitch up pitch up. Thought the aircraft are completely different, a recent Crj incident had the aircraft pitch up suddenly due to hyd fluid on a trim control box for the elevators. The old Alaska MD-80 incident near LAX comes to mind, as well as the Qantas A330 computer mismatch problem that cropped up recently. Maybe be an unlikely scenario, but computers may have compensated with engine power but unable to compensate....Airbus aircraft are supposed to protect from this kind of event. They had a very experienced group of people on this flight and it seems somewhat unlikely that crew error is involved, though not impossible.
As Zeke mentioned asymmetrical thrust may account for things as well. In any case it is all very strange after just finishing a maintenance check. I would hate to be the one responsible for a accidental omission on procedures. I hope they find the cause quickly, but carefully

RIP


User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4887 times:



Quoting NZ560 (Reply 3):
As has been posted in another thread, the flight carrying the victims is arriving in AKL tomorrow at 11:00am on NZ38. It will be unloaded of passengers then towed to the hanger for the NZ whanau to pay their respects. I will be heading to the airport tomorrow to watch the aircraft fly in and to pay my respects as it flys over head.

Good of you to be there to pay your respects. Those of us that can't be there will have the crew and passengers in our thoughts.


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2270 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week ago) and read 4508 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting NZ560 (Reply 3):
As has been posted in another thread, the flight carrying the victims is arriving in AKL tomorrow at 11:00am on NZ38. It will be unloaded of passengers then towed to the hanger for the NZ whanau to pay their respects. I will be heading to the airport tomorrow to watch the aircraft fly in and to pay my respects as it flys over head.

I will also be there at the hangar for the private service. RIP

NZ1


User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

Welcome home guys. Today there was a camera man filming the aircraft coming in and also another one up in the top viewing area filming the vehicle's and the area around the aircraft. Here's hoping that Murray White will also be home soon. RIP guys.


-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

As it was raining as the aircraft was on finals and it looked like they parked it on gate 7 does anyone know the rego of the aircraft? It the viewing area on the roadside there was a guy with a huge camera taking photo's so not sure if one will appear here in a few days.


-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offlineAAMDANNY From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Was there no prior mayday or distress call before the accident?

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4262 times:



Quoting AAMDANNY (Reply 9):
Was there no prior mayday or distress call before the accident?

AFAIK no there wasn't. Aparently from straight and level to pitch up and down impact was a matter of seconds.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4215 times:



Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 4):
As Zeke mentioned asymmetrical thrust may account for things as well

Zeke is talking about flap or slat asymmetry, not thrust asymmetry. Very different things with very different effects, a thrust asymmetry can be easily compensated with rudder ( i.e. when you lose one of the two engines ), but, when a flap or slat is stuck ( in any position ) without symmetry, your chances of a controlled flight are far, far less.... you have more "wing surface" on one side, and in jets of this size, you HAVE to roll in a spin, simple like that. Let's see what else the investigators can find in the next days / weeks. Is good to know the crew is back in home, R.I.P. now.

Saludos.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2270 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Rego was ZK-NBU

NZ1


User currently offlineTwinotter4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3954 times:



Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 11):
Zeke is talking about flap or slat asymmetry, not thrust asymmetry. Very different things with very different effects, a thrust asymmetry can be easily compensated with rudder ( i.e. when you lose one of the two engines ), but, when a flap or slat is stuck ( in any position ) without symmetry, your chances of a controlled flight are far, far less.... you have more "wing surface" on one side, and in jets of this size, you HAVE to roll in a spin, simple like that. Let's see what else the investigators can find in the next days / weeks. Is good to know the crew is back in home, R.I.P. now.

My apologies, that is what i meant to say, but I got typing asymmetric and I kept on typing thrust. Indeed he did say asymmetric flap deployment. We shall see what the investigation finds out.


User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Airbus has issued an advisory to operators, including, in part:

It said during painting and maintenance it was important to protect all aerodynamic data sensors.

It has also said that tests such as low speed tests "must be performed at safe altitude and be preceded by a recall of basic rules as regards to minimum speeds and recovery actions".

(snip)

Mr Fyfe said it was important that Airbus had issued the statement.

However, it was also important the information was not taken as a prejudgment of the outcome of the official investigations, he said.

"As I have said previously, any speculation as to the outcome of that investigation into the flight operated by XL Airways of Germany would be premature and inappropriate."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4827673a11.html for the full report.



-
User currently offlineAirbusA370 From Germany, joined Dec 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 3043 times:

Can a failure of an airspeed sensor due to paint particle ingestion cause this effect? I thought that there was some kind of redundancy in the A320 flight control systems. Or are we talking about multiple failures?

User currently offlineAirbusA370 From Germany, joined Dec 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 3043 times:

Flightglobal article: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...otice-as-anz-a320-crash-probe.html

User currently offlineZKEYE From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 243 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

It seems the body of Murray White has now been found. No doubt a great relief for the family.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2009/01/24/124598b7a30f



Bring out the gimp
User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Fifth NZ body from Airbus crash recovered

Quote:
Mr Fyfe will travel to France with members of Mr White's family toward the end of next week to bring him home.

May I say a huge huge thank you to the French people who have put in many hours finding the bodies and parts of the aircraft. I will always remember the part your team played in this terrible accident.  thumbsup 



-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Indonesian B737 Crash Part 2 posted Sat Mar 10 2007 06:44:50 by ANCFlyer
GOL Crash Part 7 posted Sat Oct 14 2006 16:40:03 by Dougbr2006
GOL Crash Part 6 posted Sun Oct 8 2006 00:52:39 by Varig
Venezuela MD82 Crash. Part 2. Shocking Facts posted Fri Aug 19 2005 04:31:07 by Luisde8cd
Public To See Air NZ Erebus Crash Archives posted Sat Apr 27 2002 11:43:55 by TG992
XL/NZ A320 Crashes In The Sea Near Perpignan posted Thu Nov 27 2008 08:46:00 by MAN23R
BA B772 Crash Lands At LHR - Part 6 posted Sat Jan 19 2008 12:26:32 by B747forever
BA B772 Crash Lands At LHR - Part 5 posted Fri Jan 18 2008 11:54:38 by ANCFlyer
BA B772 Crash Lands At LHR - Part 4 posted Fri Jan 18 2008 01:13:30 by 777ER
Light Aircraft Crash In NZ posted Mon Jul 4 2005 20:55:20 by NZAA