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Aer Lingus And United MAD-IAD From 2010  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14995 times:

First Operation Between Washington and Madrid Available for Sale in April 2009

CHICAGO, Jan. 22 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Aer Lingus and United Airlines (UAUA) today announce an innovative extension of their relationship on select long haul services between Europe and North America. This partnership will capitalize on the growth opportunities presented by the Open Skies agreement between the European Union (EU) and the United States (US) by opening new transatlantic non-stop services.

The partners will launch service between Washington Dulles and Madrid, which will be available for sale from April 2009, and will commence daily operations from March 2010. It is anticipated that additional routes may be made available for sale during 2010 to commence operation in Summer 2011.

It is intended that both carriers will equally share the commercial and operating benefits and risk, with Aer Lingus managing the operational aspects of the new partnership services and United Airlines taking responsibility for managing revenue generation. The Partnership route structure will be operated and sold under both Aer Lingus and United Airlines codes and will leverage both parties' network capabilities.

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...story/01-22-2009/0004958652&EDATE=

129 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14948 times:

I wonder what Star will make of this. UA going off and doing their own thing. I presume EI has a lower cost base than UA, and UA has limited B767/B777's for expansion?

As I said on the Irish thread, this all seems very unusual. Flights announced 14 months in advance. And on a route were the only operator, IB, hasnt been doing spectacularly well according to what Ive read in other threads. A possible downgrade to an AA B757 has been talked about on here. I know there is UA's IAD hub but I could think of other Europe-US routes that this partnership would be better suited too - MAN-ORD for starters

Will Spanair, as UA's Spanish partner, be involved in this?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14947 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
I wonder what Star will make of this. UA going off and doing their own thing

Well if anything it brings EI closer to Star. Will be interesting to see what other routes will be opened up. I think its a good match.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14909 times:

From what I cans ee, IB actually operate this service as BCN-MAD-IAD-MAD-BCN, so even IB are not relying soley on traffic only from MAD, does this not indicate demand is not there?

I find this whole announcement a bit bizarre. I do think EI has fairly good recognition within Spain, and generally Irish products are liked there, but still, this was not the development I was expecting from today's press conference.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14892 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 3):
I find this whole announcement a bit bizarre. I do think EI has fairly good recognition within Spain, and generally Irish products are liked there, but still, this was not the development I was expecting from today's press conference.

I knew it involved UA and IAD but thought it would be LHR. Then I got a tip telling me it was not LHR or BFS so I guessed it had to be Continental Europe but didnt know the exact location.

Its certainly interesting and the risk is 50/50 so maybe a good move. Time will tell. UA does have a large network to connect to and EI has brand awareness.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14866 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Its certainly interesting and the risk is 50/50 so maybe a good move. Time will tell. UA does have a large network to connect to and EI has brand awareness.

Yes Philip, I need to let this sink in, but after the initial disappointment (was hoping for major FF programme renewal, cabin refurbishment, perhaps another order, expansion of l/h network from Ireland), this may be an interesting move by EI.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14830 times:

Wow, this is really interesting. But why do they announce this so early?


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14830 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 3):
I do think EI has fairly good recognition within Spain, and generally Irish products are liked there, but still, this was not the development I was expecting from today's

Seems quite random. Why not start flights out of the UK instead? MAN would be a good option
EI do have a certain amount of business from Spainards flying USA-DUB, then on with EI flights to Spain. If this service is aimed at them wouldn't that just take away yield from core EI services to/from DUB?


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14774 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
But why do they announce this so early?

Good question!

Quoting Bramble (Reply 7):
EI do have a certain amount of business from Spainards flying USA-DUB, then on with EI flights to Spain. If this service is aimed at them wouldn't that just take away yield from core EI services to/from DUB?

I agree with you Bramble. Also interesting, according to Philip 3 aEI /c will be used, with joint interior branding, yet EI colours outside?? I'm very confused, think I'm going to go do something else for a while. I really didn't see this one coming!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14776 times:

Basic facts:

Aer Lingus will provide the joint venture with 3 Aircraft

Crew to be sourced from the USA

Outside branding EI

Inside branding UA and EI


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14761 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 8):
I really didn't see this one coming!

And no one did. It is a really awkward routing. I wonder whose idea it was, EIs or UAs?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Aer Lingus will provide the joint venture with 3 Aircraft

So three A330s for this route?!



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14695 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 8):
I'm very confused, think I'm going to go do something else for a while.

Go have a brandy and watch some A380's in the garden LOL

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
So three A330s for this route?!

Yes I presume some of the new ones.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14680 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
So three A330s for this route?!

Yes I presume some of the new ones.

Wow, isnt that over kill? I mean you really dont need 3 A330s for the MAD-IAD rotation. Or do they intend to start new destinations also? ORD?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14641 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):
Go have a brandy and watch some A380's in the garden LOL

Maybe I'll just do that! A nice cognac in the garden watching 380's... oh wait, it's cloudy, raining and bloody cold. Maybe I'll just drop down to TLS for a coffee and see what the 380 action is like there this afternoon! And look at EI's latest 330 parked currently just across from the terminal, and which by the looks of it could soon end up spending more time in MAD than DUB!  Wink



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineProvance From Ireland, joined May 2006, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14644 times:

The full story on RTE.ie

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0122/aerlingus.html



EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14606 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 13):
and which by the looks of it could soon end up spending more time in MAD than DUB! Wink

Would that be EI-EAV named ''Santa Maria'' by any chance  Big grin  Wink


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14559 times:



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

Interesting idea, and a great way for UA to expand in Europe without buying new frames. I didn't think the current UA management could think outside the box at all. I guess I was wrong. I would think MAN and GLA would be next for 2011.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14511 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 3):
From what I cans ee, IB actually operate this service as BCN-MAD-IAD-MAD-BCN, so even IB are not relying soley on traffic only from MAD, does this not indicate demand is not there?

I just flew IB MAD-IAD on monday and it was only about 1/2 full. I remember that JK tried IAD-MAD in the 1990's and it failed. Im not sure how well UA/EI will do on this route, especially with the economy being the way it is.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23034 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14497 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 3):
From what I cans ee, IB actually operate this service as BCN-MAD-IAD-MAD-BCN, so even IB are not relying soley on traffic only from MAD, does this not indicate demand is not there?

Actually, it looks like there isn't a link to a BCN anymore. Flight numbers are 6187 and 6188 across the pond, and neither the flight number nor the aircraft continues to BCN.

While IAD is rumoured to be a poor performer, I wouldn't read too much in to a prior link to BCN.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14414 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 16):
Interesting idea, and a great way for UA to expand in Europe without buying new frames.

Yes I agree and its a joint risk so it is in both carriers interests to make it work. The inside dual branding will be interesting. I wonder it there will be UA and EI uniformed FA onboard.

What airline used to do this ? I remember years ago a DL FA was onboard another carriers A/C.


User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14314 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
What airline used to do this ? I remember years ago a DL FA was onboard another carriers A/C

Dl used to do this with EI. They was a DL crew member on EI aircraft as a 'Flag carrier' Not sure if EI had a flag carrier on DL aircraft into DUB.

Now where are the 3 aircraft coming from? Has EI got a jump on cancelled slots? Not sure how well the dual branding will work with the existing EI fleet unless the MAD operation is run as a seperate entity with those 3 aircraft only operating out of MAD. Using the new aircraft due will merely reduce the appeal of curretn EI services out of DUB.

Are you sure of the US sourced staff ? This will cause severe IR problems,EI cabin crew recently took a pay cut and increased prodctivity to prevent outsourcing of cabin crew jobs to the USA.


User currently onlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14284 times:

Interesting. I wonder if they are expecting IB to drop the route by then. Last year IB operated it MAD-IAD-BOS-MAD during the winter, and this year they are operating both separately AFAIK.
When AA/BA/IB get ATI, the BOS route is rumored to be switching to an AA jet, maybe a 733? I don't know my planes but that was what popped into my head. I know IAD isn't performing as well as BOS, and BOS isn't doing all that well (not in the winter anyway). It would be interesting to see if Spanair is involved. If IB leaves, I don't see why this wouldn't work.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineCallbell From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14283 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
But why do they announce this so early?



Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
this all seems very unusual. Flights announced 14 months in advance

Re-reading the anouncement, could it be that services will start before 2010 and will become daily then?

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
The partners will launch service between Washington Dulles and Madrid, which will be available for sale from April 2009, and will commence daily operations from March 2010



User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27007 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14221 times:



Quoting Bramble (Reply 20):
Dl used to do this with EI. They was a DL crew member on EI aircraft as a 'Flag carrier'

Never knew that . This was on a B747 from London though. I have a strange feeling it was VS but cant be sure.

Quoting Bramble (Reply 20):
This will cause severe IR problems,EI cabin crew recently took a pay cut and increased prodctivity to prevent outsourcing of cabin crew jobs to the USA.

Maybe they announced it so that the strikes will be over by then  duck 

But was that not for SNN and DUB based crew not to be outsourced to Americans? This is a different operation .

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 21):
I wonder if they are expecting IB to drop the route by then

Hmm , how times changed. Wasnt too long ago that IB had codeshares with EI.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14166 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
Actually, it looks like there isn't a link to a BCN anymore. Flight numbers are 6187 and 6188 across the pond, and neither the flight number nor the aircraft continues to BCN.

According to iberia.com there is. I originally checked MAD-IAD-MAD and saw flight originated and ended in BCN. Just randomly checked for an IB flight from BCN to IAD and this is the info IB gives (as you can see it is indeed as you said 6187 and 6188):

Iberia IB-6187
B: Business Class T: Turista

Ciudad Hora Salida Hora Llegada Comidas Duración

Barcelona - Barcelona (BCN)
España 13:55 B: Refrigerio
Refrescos 1h : 10m
Madrid - Barajas (MAD)
España 16:10 15:05 Refrigerio
Almuerzo 8h : 45m
Washington - Dulles Internacional (IAD)
DC, Estados Unidos 18:55
Comentarios

Barcelona (BCN) - Barajas (MAD) A/ NO LOCAL TRAFFIC
MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
Barcelona (BCN) - Barajas (MAD) OPERATIONAL LEG IB 6621
Barcelona (BCN) DEPARTS TERMINAL B
Barajas (MAD) DEPARTS TERMINAL 4S
Barajas (MAD) ARRIVES TERMINAL 4S
Barcelona (BCN) - Dulles Internacional (IAD) CLASSES SHOWN JDIYBHKMLVSNPQO
Barajas (MAD) - Dulles Internacional (IAD) CLASSES SHOWN JDIYBHKMLVSNPQO
Barajas (MAD) - Dulles Internacional (IAD) 1/ MOVIE
Barajas (MAD) - Dulles Internacional (IAD) 9/ NON-SMOKING
Barcelona (BCN) - Barajas (MAD) ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
Barajas (MAD) - Dulles Internacional (IAD) ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE

Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
Would that be EI-EAV named ''Santa Maria'' by any chance

 

Edit for correction upon looking closer: Cubsrule, to an extent you seem to be right, from BCN to MAD it's actually IB6621, yet when you initally get the option of flights on iberia.com for BCN-IAD it gives it as IB6187... perhaps there is no a/c change... must check that out now...

[Edited 2009-01-22 08:37:21]

Ok iberia.com is very confusing. I checked the 6621 on iberia.com and it makes it look as though the flight continues onto La Havana, but I doubt it as according to another site the 6621 is operated by an A321, so when I originally said the MAD-IAD flight seemed to orginate in BCN, I was incorrect. Apologies!

[Edited 2009-01-22 08:49:31]


Long live Aer Lingus!
25 LAXintl : Support it. It does not compete directly against them, and United still will pool revenues. The more success each member has = the more success for t
26 MAH4546 : All Iberia long-haul flights are XXX-MAD-BCN, with MAD-BCN operated with a narrowbody and with multiple flight numbers. One single MAD-BCN flight mig
27 Callbell : The DL crewmember was only on the 105/104 rotation. They operated the Y class bar service then moved to Premier for the remainder of the flight. (bac
28 Toulouse : Thanks for the explanation.
29 AmricanShamrok : Interesting, I didn't see this coming...3 aircraft seems a bit much though, especially when they can be used for growth from Ireland. I would LOVE to
30 Kaitak : Presumably Airbus will be very supportive of this, helping to place aircraft and providing technical support. After all, showing UAL at first hand the
31 Mm320cap : Yes, another brilliant way to outsource our jobs overseas. Thanks Glenn, as usual.
32 OA260 : Errr HELLO !!! Crew will be sourced in the good old USA !!
33 Mm320cap : Errrr, HI! Says who? Haven't seen it anywhere that the crew will be sourced in the US. We (UAL) don't have any 330's, so I promise you the pilots wil
34 OA260 : If you read the news reports you will see that they will be Americans dressed in Aer Lingus uniforms. If anything they are stealing Irish jobs but we
35 OH-LGA : The RTE story linked earlier in the thread (http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0122/aerlingus.html) details the following: Recruitment for the new partn
36 Joeljack : So will these flights get you "Lifetime United Flight Miles" or no? If not, then I'm not interested. That's why avoid Star on any long fights cause I
37 OA260 : And seeing as you need the right documents to work in the US I would think that this would clarify the matter. Taxes would be paid to the US also. We
38 Joeljack : Yes you do on United Express. You don't get them for the LH-UA revenue sharing flights to Europe tough (even though I think you should) I hope you do
39 LH417AF025 : i have a feeling that this is a great way for UA to test the route, see if they can fill it, ultimately take it over from EI, and send them on their m
40 BrianDromey : The intention seems to be that EI and UA would form a joint venture company. My guess is that the cabin and flight crews, in such a situation, would
41 Bramble : Nice sentiments there Remind me again....isn't UA the airline that was saved by Chapter 11 bankrutcy and otherwise would have collapsed............wh
42 OA260 : Its UA that need the help buddy . Very true Bramble. Years ago it was the Irish that were the poor cousins. Now its the other way around . How justic
43 JFKMan : I think this is good news. Anything that will show Aer Lingus is still working independen of FR.
44 Viscount724 : If memory correct, one DL flight attendant was part of the crew of Swissair 111 that crashed near YHZ en route from JFK to GVA in 1998.
45 VC10DC10 : Yes, and probably a few rows of Economy Plus. I suspect it means that three aircraft will be configured for the operation, allowing spares for mainte
46 OA260 : Really ? I never knew that. Sad day that was RIP. Was a terrible thing. The DL FA thing is bugging me . I really cant remember what flight or airline
47 Daron4000 : Yes, her name was Patricia Eberhart. More can be found with a google search.
48 Mm320cap : It will never happen that way. That is what they touted the RJ's were for too... Use them to start new routes and then build them up for mainline. Ju
49 Mm320cap : From our union.... Statement from Captain Steve Wallach, Chairman, United Master Executive Council Air Line Pilots Association Regarding United’s
50 B747forever : Or maybe they will from the start serve IAD daily.
51 OA260 : The way they are going UA will be shut down before this MAD-IAD service even starts.
52 AirNZ : Nah! Unfortunately EI's management can't think out of the box when it comes to growth out of Ireland. To them growth only means Ireland to US. Hmmm,
53 Mm320cap : You are probably right! We just reported a SWEET Q4 earnings. Contracts are all due next year, and it's going to be U-G-L-Y.
54 Mm320cap : I get it from my Union. See my post above. And yes, I don't like ANY airline outsourcing and whipsawing jobs around. When BA started Open Skies, we s
55 Smokeyrosco : When it grows to 3 aircraft they will be serving different routes Thats not true, not yet anyway, if it's a major sucess that could happen in the fut
56 B747forever : Exactly, that is why I find it weird that they have announced this flight so far ahead in time.
57 EI564 : Yes. We know it is supposed to only operate 8 of its 9 long haul aircraft this summer. And it's supposed to get 2 more aircraft in 2010. That neatly
58 Smokeyrosco : Probably not, but I think this is more a trial rather then anything else. If it works THEN they will create a seperate airline under a new AOC
59 B747forever : So with these 3 aircrafts being based at either MAD or IAD we wont see anymore L/H expansion by EI at DUB?
60 Smokeyrosco : Not sure, but it is going to be 332's that serve MAD, i assume most of these where suppose to be leaving the fleet, and EI only has 333's and 350's o
61 B747forever : So wait a second, the aircrafts that EI intended to retire will instead go to the new base?
62 Smokeyrosco : I have no idea, I just noticed that it is 332's that are going on this route and I could be wrong but I thought EI where due to get rid of some 332's
63 Avek00 : Star Alliance has nothing to do with the proposed UA/EI arrangement. The aircraft registrations won't necessarily pose a problem. More of an issue wi
64 Delta2ual : Yes, at DL for a couple years we had a flight attendant "exchange". I was lucky to be a part of it. We exchanged one FA with Sabena, Swissair, Austri
65 UnitedSuperDC8 : United's international routes depend on their high yield premium passengers. Will they be able to market this to passengers who know they are about to
66 Post contains links AirplaneBoy : Off topic, but according to the following link, there were two DL FA's onboard the Swissair flight. Eberhart and Anne E. Castioni http://www.transcom
67 LAXintl : DENTK visited TLS last summer and got to fly the 330. I strongly suspect your MEC was also approached about this EI venture that has been brewing a l
68 OA260 : It must have been VS that I was on then. Crew seem to enjoy working with other airlines crew. It makes a change. Was the same when I was on TK/9W. Th
69 SKY1 : This news is the oddest and the most strange I've read about civil aviation in ages. First at all, why choosing a rute (MAD-IAD-MAD) which already has
70 Toulouse : Aer Lingus did not leave OW for this reason... tehir excuse was something to do with the cost of new software integration or similar due to new airli
71 Cubsrule : UA is pretty short on 767s; a couple of years ago when they had to return a 763 in b/k, they had to drop a long-haul route to do it. If they're looki
72 BrianDromey : I agree with you 100%. UA lost something like $1 Bn last quarter. The sad fact of the matter is that they cannot afford to buy new aircraft. They hav
73 Post contains links Pgtravel : I have to think that this could be a milestone in United's demise that we look back on in the future as a key turning point. UA domestic mainline will
74 Mm320cap : Oh I'm sure they were approached. The conversation went something like this... We will gladly hire pilots outside the UAL pilot's seniority list to f
75 Mm320cap : Aaaahhhhhh.. Finally someone who gets it. Thank you.
76 ItalianFlyer : You will NEVER see a UA F/A on a partner flight as long as AFA is on the property...trust me...and DL pulled their F/As from partner flights after the
77 Kaitak : EI currently has four A332s, of which one, EI-EWR, is due to leave the fleet shortly (to join Atlasjet, I think). That leaves EI-DAA, DUO and LAX. Si
78 Mm320cap : You are not seeing the big picture from those of us who are "getting the shaft"... again. UAL is parking 100 mainline aircraft. 100. How many regiona
79 BrianDromey : Im sorry mate, but you are talking through your arse here. The Irish government does not "protect" EI as you put it. EI has not had state aid in well
80 LAXintl : Will be 3 aircraft at IAD. They will be getting a new AOC from the start. The onboard product will be something more neutral, and likely include UA's
81 Kleiner : Very creative! UA has figured out how to expand without new metal and 50% risk! In turn, EI gets advertising, product sampling and 50%. This is the re
82 ItalianFlyer : Thank you for the snarky response Brian....I do not have a 'solution' and my point is neither does UAL's very highly paid management team. This lates
83 Airzim : This EI/UA agreement is (in my opinion) going to look very similar to another relationship that is in the process of being formed with another carrier
84 MIgAiR54 : Maybe then EI will be property of FR and everything will change. They have been trying to buy for years and everytime they are closer. I think they ne
85 Smokeyrosco : Well I don't know where you got that but according to the press conference yesterday hosted in the Westbury hotel here in Dublin they are planing to
86 OA260 : I dont know if you know about Aviation in the European Union but the Irish government is not allowed to ''protect'' any airline. Aer Lingus does not
87 SKY1 : ??? First time I hear something like that. I think nobody was expecting such flight. If you say ORD-MAD at least ...but IAD-MAD?? OK, but never mater
88 Shamrock350 : Ryanair's second bid for Aer Lingus has so far been a failure. Before the second bid was launched Ryanair had 29.82% and now as we approach the exten
89 Post contains links OA260 : Aer Lingus to quit Oneworld alliance Industry sources said the entry of JAL alone would have tied up the Aer Lingus IT department for six months, at
90 SKY1 : It sounds like an excuse to leave as never before there were complains. What happen then in Star Alliance where almost every single year a new --or s
91 Kiwiandrew : I believe that there have been numerous reference made in previous threads to the suggestion that JL had apparently a very strange in house system th
92 Mm320cap : This is our point. United already HAS 6 747's that they are choosing to park. No procurement necessary. It is total BS that UAL is going to start a S
93 Pgtravel : As you noted, I was speaking about their refusal to sell their stake. I am well aware that state aid isn't allowed, but that certainly hasn't stopped
94 OA260 : Aer Lingus never will be better under FR .
95 Cubsrule : What routes will UA be cutting as a result of parking the 747s?
96 Toulouse : Agreed. They have made 2 attempts, and FAILED both times. Not true... but won't "attack" you given your later reply (reply 93)... or maybe I will if
97 OA260 : Thanks , well you know me . I am always critcising Aer Lingus and their lack of forward thinking and sub standard longhaul product . At the same time
98 B747forever : Low Fare airline
99 LAXintl : You are right however I understand goal is to have its own independent AOC. Actually United did it first. They did used to operate to Madrid in the e
100 OA260 : Dont drink the cool aid LOL.....
101 Smokeyrosco : Assuming this all works out yes, that is correct, however, unless this is super successful I don't see a new AOC for at least 4 years
102 Mm320cap : If this was a 6 month wet-lease situation, so be it. I'll be all for it if we are guaranteed to take the route in a year or less, as was the SAS deal
103 Mm320cap : You know, that's a fine question. I know we have pulled out of a few Asian routes, but United is pretty quiet when it comes to what routes we are goi
104 OA260 : And why do you feel that United has the right to ''take'' the route. Aer Lingus may have as much right to ''take'' the route from United. Aer Lingus
105 United1 : The Asian flights that were cut (SFO-NGO, SFO-TPE & the second daily ORD-NRT) were due to the 6 frames that UA is retiring. UA has already parked 3 o
106 Fun2fly : All this work and they'll just have to cancel it when CO buys them. Seriously, United's last foray into this w/Spanair didn't work, why will this one?
107 LAXintl : Which is a good thing whether you make or buy widgets, or transportation services. Business will flow to the lowest cost producer, just as how the co
108 B747forever : Agree with OA. If anyone will "take" the route it will be EI as they will be using EI aircrafts and EI will be the recognized airline for the pax, no
109 OA260 : True if the outside is branded green with a Shamrock then thats what the passengers will see.
110 ClassicLover : Glad to see that confirmed with a link Thank you!
111 Humberside : While EI are likely to be the brand customers will most recognise with, UA are the ones who have connections on one end (both ends if Spanair are inv
112 BrianDromey : Im sure you know that this is not true. The reality is that UA management AND unions could not sit down together for long enough to thrash a good dea
113 ZRH : I apologize, I did not read all posts and don't know if it already answered, but why is EI interested in this route? MAD is really not on the way to I
114 Stratoduck : thousands and thousands of people are being put out of work at united - apparently management isn't trying to keep bread on everyone's table. when al
115 TravelExec : In the long run, to be a successful low fares airline, you also have to be a low cost one... hence programmes like this one and the Belfast hub which
116 Cubsrule : Those are all relatively independent of the 763 fleet, and I think we can all agree that a 744 would not be appropriate on IAD-MAD. The point about c
117 Post contains links LatinAviation : Here's an article on why Aer Lingus left oneworld: http://www.independent.ie/business/i...quit-oneworld-alliance-100412.html
118 United1 : Exactly....UAs model is set up around operating low-density F/J/Y service on premium high yielding routes the 763 fleet doesn't work well to allot of
119 Mercure1 : Perhaps the A330s allow even more VFR flts from IAD to places like FCO (moving the 763 metal to something more profitable), LIS, BCN, etc
120 Mm320cap : Good to know. Well, actually, BAD to know, but thanks for the info.
121 Mm320cap : I'll quote your own post again, because you seem confused that you said it. If you can show me where UAL got "billions in loans" from the US governme
122 Mm320cap : Great post. Wish I could have said it as well.
123 Mm320cap : That's very true, Cubsrule. Where my argument lies is that with the number of fleet types at UAL, we could be more flexible. If you keep a 747, and u
124 Mm320cap : Interesting post LAXintl. My one comment is that we (humans) should be very careful about employing this philosophy in a safety-vital industry. The c
125 Mm320cap : All true, but I'm sure you can see why our contract negotiations become so acidic. With workers trying to put protections into the contract to enable
126 BrianDromey : In fact, we see frequnet threads, "would DL/Ua etc ever operate intra-europe flights?" which is a step beyond what EI and UA are doing. I think you h
127 Shamrock604 : Absolutely. Amen.
128 Bramble : Same sentiments here from an EI staff member. Could be problems with this as under the EI AOC the new pilots would have to be EI trained which the EI
129 Cubsrule : Of course, there's also the issue of yields and the very premium-heavy configuration of UA's aircraft. Is it smart to have a small subfleet of aircra
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