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Why Do Pilot Students Get To Fly Jumpseat So Easy?  
User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Hello.

I've hard from many my fellow school mates who happen to be pilots, say that they get to fly jumpseat only by telling the captain that they're doing flight training.
Of course, it is the captain's decision, but do the airlines have rules for letting non-airline employees fly jumpseat? I'm pretty sure that this is a question of safety, and letting a passenger in to the cockpit during flight could have some disastrous consequences, right?


SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

Jumpseat access has been thoroughly discussed in this forum, but I'll summarize my thoughts regarding procedures in the United States. In the U.S., jumpseat access is given to CASS-approved pilots and select other employees in the airline industry such as mechanics, dispatchers and certain management folks. That's it in a nutshell - can't speak about other countries.

User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

In my airline, all crew members can fly jump seats in the cabin with only certain people such as Tech Ops, FA's and of course Pilots can fly in the flight deck jump seat.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3428 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

I've never had problems getting the seat up front on LX. All you have to do is ask kindly and show your badge (If you train on an Airline-sponsored flight school that is). After all, I'm training at LX's own pilotschool, so I fail to see why i would be a security-threat, especially since I'll start working as LX flightcrew later this year!?

A classmate from Germany takes frequent trips home to DUS on the weekends and he got jumpseat rides on LH, LX and Germanwings, but he has been rejected a couple of times aswell, even on LX flights. It always depends who's sitting up front and the current ciscumstances (weather, technical status, delay etc)


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9583 times:



Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
I've hard from many my fellow school mates who happen to be pilots, say that they get to fly jumpseat only by telling the captain that they're doing flight training.
Of course, it is the captain's decision, but do the airlines have rules for letting non-airline employees fly jumpseat? I'm pretty sure that this is a question of safety, and letting a passenger in to the cockpit during flight could have some disastrous consequences, right?

It is the captain's discretion as to who occupies the jumpseat. Outside of the US, at least, inside of the US, you either have to be flight crew either working for that company or a part of CASS, a mechanic whose duties require them to be in the jumpseat, an approved management member, or an FAA representative. Nobody else can be in the cockpit in flight.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9445 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I've flown jumpseat several times, and every time I just asked the gate agent (for weight and balance purposes) and then again when I boarded.


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9080 times:



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 3):
I've never had problems getting the seat up front on LX. All you have to do is ask kindly and show your badge (If you train on an Airline-sponsored flight school that is). After all, I'm training at LX's own pilotschool, so I fail to see why i would be a security-threat, especially since I'll start working as LX flightcrew later this year!?

The poeple i know are doing their flight training at the Scandinavian Aviation Academy, and they aren't affaliated with any airline.



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8865 times:



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 5):
I've flown jumpseat several times, and every time I just asked the gate agent (for weight and balance purposes) and then again when I boarded.

Do you work for an airline? I've never heard of an average person being given access to the jumpseat during a flight without the proper credentials.



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User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8851 times:



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 3):
I've never had problems getting the seat up front on LX.

Sandro it's hard getting a jumpseat even you're a aviation enthusiast. Do you have any information about LX? I wish if I could have a front seat during a PRN-ZRH flight.  biggrin 

Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8742 times:



Quoting LH4116 (Reply 6):
The poeple i know are doing their flight training at the Scandinavian Aviation Academy, and they aren't affaliated with any airline.

Do many pilots, who have graduated from this school, get hired by airlines? In this case, as students, they are already part of the fraternity. The captain might have graduated from the same school years ago.

Jan


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4697 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8549 times:



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 7):
Do you work for an airline? I've never heard of an average person being given access to the jumpseat during a flight without the proper credentials.

Well, you've done now.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8407 times:

When I was in college I used to throw bags on the ramp in STL. Traveling to Spain from the US on Sabena for spring break in March 2001, I showed the FA my company ID, my old school paper FAA PPL and asked if she would ask the captain if I could sit in the jumpseat. She came back and said that I was welcome to come up once the seat belt sign was turned off, but I was not allowed to sit up front during taxi, takeoff, and landing because I was not a commercial pilot then. It was cool to sit up front for about an hour and half of the two hours between BRU-MAD and listen in on European ATC and talk to the guys.

Now, it is all about CASS in the US. CS agents check me in, sometimes ask for my passport to verify who I am and with the captain's permission I can ride up front when I am trying to go somewhere.

I have not had a reason to ask about sitting up front in Europe since that first trip to the other side of the pond. Does anyone know if Europe has something similar to CASS, or does it depend on the rules of a specific country/airline? Anyone know where I can find answers to something like that?



What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4697 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8146 times:



Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 11):

I have not had a reason to ask about sitting up front in Europe since that first trip to the other side of the pond. Does anyone know if Europe has something similar to CASS, or does it depend on the rules of a specific country/airline?

We don't have something like CASS. In general, it's of no use to ask on UK carriers, fair game on others. The worst thing you can get is a no.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineIFACN From Italy, joined Nov 2005, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8066 times:

Fellow flight school classmates got it by simply asking, on domestic flights.

One of these guys is an habitue' of Milan Linate-Brindisi flights and often meets the same crew on every flight. This surely helps.

It's all in how do you ask, how do you look and how much you give a good impression to the crew: e.g. speaking as a guy who's doing it hard to get his ATPL and has logged lots of hours on IR and ME training, looking forward to be a "colleague".

Of course, if local regulations allow it, at captain's discretion.


User currently offlineEnginebird From United States of America, joined May 2007, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7651 times:



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 7):
Do you work for an airline? I've never heard of an average person being given access to the jumpseat during a flight without the proper credentials.

It is also important to distinguish between pre-9/11 and post 9/11. Before 9/11 it was easy to get access to the cockpit jumpseat even as non-affiliated enthusiast if you new a captain well enough (did it many times, all phases of the flight and domestically as well as intercontinental). Since 9/11 the situation has changed completely: no more access to cockpits for outsiders almost anywhere in the world.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4697 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7598 times:



Quoting Enginebird (Reply 14):
no more access to cockpits for outsiders almost anywhere in the world.

With all due respect, this isn't true. I know for a fact that the US, UK and Canada don't allow outsiders by law, I don't know of any others. Some countries or airlines might be stricter than others, but there are plenty of opportunities around the world.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6929 times:

Quoting LH4116 (Thread starter):
Why Do Pilot Students Get To Fly Jumpseat So Easy?

We don't. Certainly not in the US, and certainly not after 9/11.

If you're an employee for you own airline that's still a huge maybe, at least at the airline I worked for.

[Edited 2009-01-23 09:46:26]

User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6767 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
Do many pilots, who have graduated from this school, get hired by airlines? In this case, as students, they are already part of the fraternity. The captain might have graduated from the same school years ago.

They do have agreements with SAS, and Ryanair. But since SAS haven't hired a single pilot since 2000, and Ryanair are parking up planes, they will have a hard time finding a job today.

Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 8):
Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 3):
I've never had problems getting the seat up front on LX.

Sandro it's hard getting a jumpseat even you're a aviation enthusiast. Do you have any information about LX? I wish if I could have a front seat during a PRN-ZRH flight.

Well, if you've heard, Sandro is a guy with a big bunch of tricks up his sleeve, and it wouldn't surprise me if the captain was a woman  bigthumbsup 
No, I'm just kidding...



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2282 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Sure would be nice since I commute. I am a flight attendant for AA, and a licensed pilot, yet I'd get laughed off the plane if I asked to jumpseat (in the cockpit), even on my own airline! Somehow I don't think that will ever change here in the states.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6580 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 7):
Do you work for an airline? I've never heard of an average person being given access to the jumpseat during a flight without the proper credentials.

I do now, but also before this I was able to. In Europe only, never in the US.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
We don't have something like CASS. In general, it's of no use to ask on UK carriers, fair game on others. The worst thing you can get is a no.

Exactly, last year I jumpseated on KLM Cityhopper, Wideroe, and Denim Air. In the past, you can add SAS and Braathens to that list.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6564 times:



Quoting Enginebird (Reply 14):
It is also important to distinguish between pre-9/11 and post 9/11. Before 9/11 it was easy to get access to the cockpit jumpseat even as non-affiliated enthusiast if you new a captain well enough (did it many times, all phases of the flight and domestically as well as intercontinental). Since 9/11 the situation has changed completely: no more access to cockpits for outsiders almost anywhere in the world.

Yeah sorry, as far as I was concerned we are talking about present day. What's past is is past.



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User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6510 times:



Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 18):
Sure would be nice since I commute. I am a flight attendant for AA, and a licensed pilot, yet I'd get laughed off the plane if I asked to jumpseat (in the cockpit), even on my own airline! Somehow I don't think that will ever change here in the states.

No offense, but it shouldn't change in that deparment...

FA's in general (not in your case) don't have much exposure to the stuff that goes on in the flying end of the house... The purpose of riding a jumpseat is you are legally becoming an ACM. As such, you must be able to perform those functions/roles as an ACM. While pilots don't know how to fly each others aircraft, we are capable of assisting in situations due to basic traits of all aircraft... whereas a FA would not be qualified/able to readily assist (radios, checklists, etc...)... On the flip side, Pilots at some airlines ARE allowed to use FA jumpseats because the duty/qualifications are to assist in passenger related safety, which all pilots are trained on... we know position of all your emergency equipment as well as usage and are trained in evacuations just like FA's (minus the verbal commands)...



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineBoeing 777-400 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

I was an intern for AA over the summer of 2007, and the whole reason I wanted to do it was for the jumpseat privileges. We each had to have our CPL and pass a 10-year security background check, fingerprints and all, but then the FAA immediately thereafter told all the airlines that their interns couldn't jumpseat for some reason. So I sat in a cubicle for most of the summer, instead of experiencing what my future job would entail............damn FAA

User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3428 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5620 times:



Quoting LH4116 (Reply 17):

Well, if you've heard, Sandro is a guy with a big bunch of tricks up his sleeve, and it wouldn't surprise me if the captain was a woman bigthumbsup
No, I'm just kidding...

 Big grin No, but that trainee crew badge sure helps  Wink


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5585 times:

This has indeed been discussed several times on this forum and each time we get several US members telling how it is completely impossible nowadays, whereas Europeans in turn will tell it's still possible, after which a long discussion between the 2 unfolds over laws, rules, regulations and what is the 'norm' is...

To summarize the situation:

It's of no use any longer to ask on US or UK carriers, because in-flight access to the flightdeck is legally forbidden to any unauthorized person by those countries, but in the rest of the western world, access to the flight deck is still decided on by the captain alone, meaning you still have a fair change.

Just ask it politely to the purser during a quiet moment of the flight and explain why you'd love to have the privilege to be invited to take a look and I am sure that while you won't get a positive answer every time, you'll definitely be lucky to be invited up front on on some occasions.


25 Mls515 : And yet FA's are qualified to sit in the cockpit while the pilot is in the back taking a dump. What difference would it make if they were catching a
26 LH4116 : Usually, aircraft's have a lav in the front too. Besides, I've heard about lavatories in the cockpit. Anyone know what aircraft's have them?
27 Enginebird : "Almost" may be a little bit too much then. But I know that even outside the US and UK many airlines in Europe and Asia do not allow non-employees to
28 JRadier : And I know many that do! (no, I'm not going to name them). To take it even further, one of my requests was answered with 'but of course, no problem'
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