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US Airways Trying To Fly To Brazil?  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11876 times:
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Yesterday US filled in opposition to CO petition for reconsideration of the DOT order instituting proceeding as well as to the Joint Motion of American / Continental / Delta / Spirit.

On such opposition US says that any further delay would "further disadvantage and prejudice new entrant carriers, making it more difficult for them to institute Brazil service" also "In a market as constrained as Brazil, the Department should make every effort to encourage new entry".

So we may see this as a clear indication they will apply for some valuable frequencies to Brazil ?

Also, considering options as GIG, CNF, BSB, SSA, REC, FOR (among others) and the fact that São Paulo isn't possible, what do you expect to see from US ?

Link
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...=DocumentDetail&o=090000648082a72e


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25355 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11829 times:

About 2-3 months back at a employee conference Doug Parker CEO of US stated that the carrier is looking at various different opportunities with its upcoming A330-200 deliveries and that CLT to South America could be an option.

So yes, I suspect Brazil and maybe Argentina(?) might be on their radar.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11817 times:

it's possible US could be interested in serving CLT or PHL to the N/NE or Rio but it's also possible that they want to push the process along just so that carriers that do win routes are forced to start them. Even if US isn't interested in competing for the authority, it can act like it is so that new routes have to be started, reducing the financial benefit from the new routes for the winning carriers.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11758 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Even if US isn't interested in competing for the authority, it can act like it is so that new routes have to be started, reducing the financial benefit from the new routes for the winning carriers.

Giving the fact they might apply for CLT-GIG or PHL-GIG where in the near future they got a TAM and *A secondary hub (or even BSB), i prefer to say they are looking for profits rather than reducing benefits for their competitors.
In my view, if DOT looks more to new entrants, they should not be so concern about giving CO more time to defend it's request.

[Edited 2009-01-23 10:38:25]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJFKMan From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11726 times:

I think this is good news. A good first step. I hope US can expand into South America. US continues to expand internationally.


US / AA - JFK / TPA
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11718 times:

In my opinion, if US Airways had actually planned on applying, they would have said so.

I don't think they are planning to apply to Brazil.



a.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

10 Day Final Submission Extension Granted - New Entry Applications due 1/27/2009:
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...entDetail&d=DOT-OST-2009-0003-0006


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11391 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
In my opinion, if US Airways had actually planned on applying, they would have said so.

At same time, if they do not have such plans, why to sent a message ?

Quoting JFKMan (Reply 4):
I think this is good news. A good first step. I hope US can expand into South America. US continues to expand internationally.

Yes, and Brazil is a very good market also considering TAM will become *A member soon.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11377 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
In my opinion, if US Airways had actually planned on applying, they would have said so.

At same time, if they do not have such plans, why to sent a message ?

Easy: It's a case law system, and US Airways is doing this to set future precedent. In the future, if there is a similar situation that disadvantages US Airways, US Airways could point to this case and say, "hey, in this docket you did this. You should follow this precedent."

[Edited 2009-01-23 13:03:34]


a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11327 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Giving the fact they might apply for CLT-GIG or PHL-GIG where in the near future they got a TAM and *A secondary hub (or even BSB), i prefer to say they are looking for profits rather than reducing benefits for their competitors.

it's still not clear how CO and US will work together in Star. I suspect that if CO wants something, they will get it ... and CO might not want Star having 3 carriers compete for NE to Brazil traffic - or NE to anywhere traffic.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
"hey, in this docket you did this. You should follow this precedent."

agree. and US has no choice but to start paying attention to S. America. Unless US is swallowed by someone else w/ a large S. American route system, US has to be able to go after revenues in the region. Latin America is valuable if for no other reason because of the reverse seasonality it has compared with Europe where US has most of its int'l capacity.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11263 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
and the fact that São Paulo isn't possible, what do you expect to see from US ?

Why is it not possible? Are there special slots for GRU?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11213 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
it's still not clear how CO and US will work together in Star. I suspect that if CO wants something, they will get it ... and CO might not want Star having 3 carriers compete for NE to Brazil traffic - or NE to anywhere traffic.

In my view, i never expect both CO and US to fight for Northeast. In fact CO focus is just Rio and São Paulo (same as UA).
Considering *A, US service from East Coast to GIG for example right now will only compete against UA seasonal service IAD-GIG.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11148 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 10):
Why is it not possible? Are there special slots for GRU?

The new frequencies cannot be used for GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Considering *A, US service from East Coast to GIG for example right now will only compete against UA seasonal service IAD-GIG.

The idea of US Airways to GIG is laughable. Neither PHL nor CLT could ever support it.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11100 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
The idea of US Airways to GIG is laughable. Neither PHL nor CLT could ever support it.

Well if airports with 100,000 passengers a day and a hub can't fill a flight that is not only to GIG, but to Brazil, then i can laugh.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8371 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11093 times:
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Quoting JFKMan (Reply 4):
I think this is good news. A good first step. I hope US can expand into South America. US continues to expand internationally.

USairways does have a prayer in South America thanks to the Bank of Boston, or as they still call it in Argentina, Banco de Boston. Bank of America based where, Charlotte NC, got the old Bank of Boston when they merged Fleet into B of A. With feed and the Big hometown Bank a CLT to GRU service looks promising. IF United with a lesser hub at IAD can make it work then US from CLT can too.

A service to Brazil would also help US with an opposite summer in South America, using A330 when Europe is i its slow season.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17491 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11049 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
A service to Brazil would also help US with an opposite summer in South America, using A330 when Europe is i its slow season.

US to GRU wouldn't be half bad, although that's not available until OCT09. Also it will swallow up to two aircraft shells and I'm not sure that's something US is ready to handle given its small widebody fleet.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10905 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
USairways does have a prayer in South America thanks to the Bank of Boston, or as they still call it in Argentina, Banco de Boston. Bank of America based where, Charlotte NC, got the old Bank of Boston when they merged Fleet into B of A. With feed and the Big hometown Bank a CLT to GRU service looks promising. IF United with a lesser hub at IAD can make it work then US from CLT can too.

IAD has more O/D then CLT does.
Doesn't matter US isn't getting into GRU right now

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
US to GRU wouldn't be half bad, although that's not available until OCT09. Also it will swallow up to two aircraft shells and I'm not sure that's something US is ready to handle given its small widebody fleet.

IIRC thats was only if GRU (the airport grows)



yep.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10841 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
US to GRU wouldn't be half bad, although that's not available until OCT09.

It is not available in OCT09.

None of the new frequencies are open to GRU right now unless GRU airport is modified in certain ways (I forget the standards that need to be met). None of those modifications will be met anytime soon.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
The idea of US Airways to GIG is laughable. Neither PHL nor CLT could ever support it.

Well if airports with 100,000 passengers a day and a hub can't fill a flight that is not only to GIG, but to Brazil, then i can laugh.

Then I guess you are laughing, because neither CLT nor PHL could ever support a flight to GIG. Never. GRU? Maybe.



a.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10039 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Then I guess you are laughing, because neither CLT nor PHL could ever support a flight to GIG. Never. GRU? Maybe.

If I had to guess how many people want to travel from CLT to GIG every day, I'd guess zero and I'd be very close to the average. CLT-GIG would have to survive on connections only. PHL-GIG is a different story. PHL can easily compete with Newark as the Jersey airport, so PHL-GIG would get some traffic that is not flying from PHL currently. Still, it seems a long shot.

At the same time, the amount of local traffic on ATL-GIG should be very small, so maybe CLT-GIG could survive on connections only.



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User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9993 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
At the same time, the amount of local traffic on ATL-GIG should be very small, so maybe CLT-GIG could survive on connections only.

Yes but ATL is much larger than CLT (hub wise and o/d wise)



yep.
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9928 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
In my view, i never expect both CO and US to fight for Northeast. In fact CO focus is just Rio and São Paulo (same as UA).

I believe it is more likely US start operating a 752 to Brazilian Northeast, in the same way DL has done.
Destinations like FOR or NAT would work as an alternative to their Caribbean network and provide an effective expansion in Star Alliance's network.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9931 times:



Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 20):
I believe it is more likely US start operating a 752 to Brazilian Northeast, in the same way DL has done.
Destinations like FOR or NAT would work as an alternative to their Caribbean network and provide an effective expansion in Star Alliance's network.

I have to disagree with you 100%. It won't work, nor will it happen. DL is struggling as is, and they have a mega-hub to work with.



a.
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9918 times:

Did they change the number of US based airlines allowed into Brasil? I thought it was only four allowed (AA, UA, DL, CO.) I must have missed the change. Was it when the bilateral was amended, with the opening up of the northeast cities?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9851 times:



Quoting Ocracoke (Reply 22):
Did they change the number of US based airlines allowed into Brasil? I thought it was only four allowed (AA, UA, DL, CO.) I must have missed the change. Was it when the bilateral was amended, with the opening up of the northeast cities?

Correct. The new bilateral as increased the number of airlines allowed to fly to Brazil. I believe that there is no longer any limit, but somebody else can correct/verify that.



a.
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9792 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Correct. The new bilateral as increased the number of airlines allowed to fly to Brazil. I believe that there is no longer any limit, but somebody else can correct/verify that.

Thanks.


25 Thestooges : I dont think that any route out of CLT is really based on O&D, except for maybe to New York and other major cities. CLT is a hub based mainly on conne
26 DTWAGENT : I could see CLT-GIG flights better then PHL. They could really tap into the New York market into CLT and then on to GIG. So alot of O & D traffic.
27 C010T3 : Just smile and say Coca-Cola! Well, it was, after all, one of the proposed routes for the merged UA-US back in 2000.[Edited 2009-01-23 20:40:53]
28 USPIT10L : I don't remember that route being mentioned. I do remember PHLYVR, and PHLBRU mentioned. At the time UA was still flying GRUJFK and GIGJFK nonstop.
29 LipeGIG : BofA just close their repo office in Sao Paulo DL probably does very well on ATL-GIG as the route is always upgraded to 764. I flew this route on Bus
30 USFlyer MSP : Incorrect, BofA sold Bank of Boston to Itau in 2006. If a pax is connecting to GIG in CLT from NYC, that is by definition NOT O & D traffic. --------
31 Jfk777 : The time to start a service to GRU is the fall. US's A330 fleet is growing and some young A332 will be available with SWISS switching to A333's
32 KGAIflyer : But United doesn't have any spare planes -- other than a few 747 frames resting in the desert. Perhaps USAir could dry-lease their new 332's to Unite
33 LipeGIG : You're wrong about the size of the front cabin thru GIG. First, it's not a matter of being only Rio, second, Rio has a lot of US business other than
34 Jrosa : Please note that Fleet (before its merger with BofA) sold Bank of Boston Brazil, Argentina and Chile to Itau Bank (a Brazilian Bank). So there is no
35 ItalianFlyer : Makes sense and I wish US well. Many experts feel that Brazil is the next economic India; and if those Santos & Campos oil reserves live up to the hyp
36 LipeGIG : Considering some advantages, including economic freedom, democracy and government, i would say Brazil is a BRIC with very strong possibilities, also
37 DeltaL1011man : Ok.........US CAN NOT get into GRU period. Unless they can find a carrier who isn't using all there rights (which isn't happening) or the airport gro
38 Thestooges : GRU is of course going to be any foreign carriers destination of choice in Brazil, and so GIG is usually not served at all or only as a tag on to the
39 C010T3 : Only IAD is seasonal. You forgot MCO.
40 Flighty : Is GIG really that weak? US flies to tourist destinations at similar lengths -- VCE might be the most similar. It seems CLT-GIG would bring origins l
41 MAH4546 : Few Americans vacation in Brazil. It has nothing to do with distance. Brazil requires a visa for Americans, a huge turn off and an idiotic move by th
42 LipeGIG : No it's not that weak. This is a concept here on A.Net where some places are considered "low yield" or extremely leisure. GIG in fact is a very good
43 Silentbob : Neither has to support the destination on its own merits, especially CLT where 80% of the traffic is connecting.
44 MaverickM11 : Are you sure? I think the rights are available in OCT09--you just can't park the plane anywhere They're two different things that are controlled by t
45 Thestooges : And you know this how ??? From my personal experience I have met quite a few Americans when I was in Brazil, usually Americans are not very well repr
46 2travel2know : Even if the new frequencies under the Brazil-U.S.A. revised bilateral would allow US to fly between CLT and São Paulo's 3rd airport (VCP), I think it
47 MaverickM11 : Three of my coworkers on the same floor have been robbed in GIG, two of them twice in a row within about five minutes. Not to say GIG is dangerous, b
48 Post contains links MAH4546 : About 600,000 North Americans (that includes Canada) visit Brazil (and that is all of Brazil) a year. Among South American countries, Peru and Argent
49 SCL767 : We recently had a F/A who was drugged, (at the hotel where he had his layover), and robbed in GRU, and was later found two hours outside of GRU. And
50 Thestooges : I'm very sorry, but 600,000 North Americans a year travelling to Brazil seems like an awful lot to me, now I dont know how that compares to how many
51 OA412 : The numbers to Brazil are significantly smaller than to the UK and France. Just in terms of American's, you have about 4 million annual visitors to t
52 MAH4546 : 600,000 is small. It is a minute number compared to other countries. And, in addition, American tourism to Brazil is heavily skewed to residents of t
53 Post contains links 787KQ : Really? in comparison to what other destinations 10 hours away? BTW, the visa issue is small potatoes and has virtually no effect on travel to Brazil
54 Post contains links MD11junkie : I'm sorry, I still don't know where you get your info. Fleet Boston sold all of its Latinamerican division to several banks like Itau in October 2006
55 Post contains links USFlyer MSP : Incorrect, the visa issue is a huge issue. Even by the Brazilian government's estimation http://www2.camara.gov.br/agenciaint...es-the-end-of-recipro
56 LipeGIG : Maverick, At the airport ???? First, there's a very restrictive number of seats from US to Brazil considering that also, almost the same number of Br
57 LipeGIG : This is not true Mark. In fact you have a strong VFR market for these areas you mentioned but the tourism to Brazil is widely spread throughout the U
58 MAH4546 : Well, to give two example, France receives about 415% more Americans a year than Brazil and Argentina receives about 65% more Americans a year. That
59 MaverickM11 : All three at one of the popular tourist beaches
60 Frostbite : Having just gone through the process myself, I have no doubt that the hassle, cost, and strong whiff of bureaucratic B.S. is a real deterrent for man
61 Flighty : Anyway, the lure of Rio is still substantial. Come on. It's Rio. The New York Times writes glamorous travel articles almost biweekly about Rio or its
62 LipeGIG : I'm sorry about that. It happens, more in the past, but Government is improving police and i hope it reduces this a lot. Crime is declining. And mill
63 Incitatus : Los Angeles, at least when it comes to murders, is much safer than Rio. Chicago is also much safer. In the same league as Rio are Detroit, Baltimore
64 Jmbarros12 : Ok, I agree that Rio isn´t the safest place in the world, but this happens in NY, Miami, Paris and every other major cities around the globe. Once I
65 LipeGIG : New York in some places are even worst than Ipanema or Copcabana, but this is not shown on TV for example. We (Brazilians) show all the problems to t
66 Alianza : Hey Lipe, Ipanema beach and "the girl from Ipanema" always looked to be a beautiful place which I'd like to visit some day and give other Americans a
67 B752OS : I have had the pleasure of visiting Rio twice and I was impressed. Sure the fact that roughly 30 people a week are killed may scare you, but as long
68 MAH4546 : As has been mentioned, US Airways is not applying for flights to Brazil. There is no logical entry market for them outside of GRU. Neither PHL nor CL
69 Post contains links MaverickM11 : Yeah but the murder rate in Rio is night and day compared to those other cities: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/nov/24/usa.andrewclark Detroit:
70 Post contains links 787KQ : Americans are very well represented in Brazil. Top 15 visitor arrivals to Brazil by country of origin (2006-2007)[12] Ranking 2007 Country of origin F
71 Jmbarros12 : Ok, I wont argue with that. But these numbers reflects what happens in the "favelas" and other farther regions of the city. When it comes to tourist
72 LipeGIG : Even more, i would say 90% And it's Alianza, you will like a lot to visit and spend some days in Ipanema. I'll be there for the Carnaval this year. T
73 Post contains links LAXintl : And here it is: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/090128/20090128006120.html?.v=1 As a new entrant, US does have more then a fair shot as gaining the authority.
74 Flighty : ... But CLT-GIG is such a small market...
75 LipeGIG : But US-CLT and GIG-South America aren't and can feed the flight. This will be the sole year-round North America-GIG *A flight. And considering TAM wi
76 MAH4546 : I think UA would strongly consider going to year-round on IAD-GIG to help get rid of US Airways in the market. US Airways Rio de Janeiro application
77 2travel2know : Some U.S. airlines are know to like "trial-and-error routes". I wish them luck and excellent connections for the GIG flight to/from MCO in CLT.
78 USFlyer MSP : I am shocked. I knew US wanted to expand in South America but I assumed they would attempt to grow in northern South America - Colombia/Venezuela/Ecua
79 C010T3 : I know you are able to number reasons why this flight wouldn't perform as well as the competitor's, but that what you're saying is just plain offensi
80 Flighty : It's drivel because clearly, CLT is one of the larger more convenient connecting hubs in America, if not the world. For the sum total USA-GIG travel
81 LAXintl : I disagree, far from being dumb. Just as what DL can do at ATL or CO at IAH, US will be able to feed the the GIG flight with connections from across
82 MAH4546 : The failure with US application is this: South America is a market that requires mass. One can't succeede with a token pressence in South America, as
83 PlanesNTrains : Drivel or not, I have to wonder how many people will select US for a XXX-CLT-GIG flight over, say, AA on XXX-MIA-GIG, or DL on XXX-ATL-GIG. The reaso
84 FutureUScapt : I see your point, but what would you suggest US do? Waiting 2-3 years (or longer) until places like GRU, BOG, and CCS finally open up will only put a
85 MAH4546 : Start with Central America. US Airways needs to start up and work their way down. Every country in Central America is Open Skies. Then again, GUA is
86 Post contains links HB-IWC : Now that US Airways have formally announced its intention to fly to Brazil, if granted such rights by the DOT, we ask that you would add any further d
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