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Status Of US Carriers' Business/First Upgrades  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

What is the current status of American carriers' business & first cabin upgrades?

Anyone with information, please update the status of:
AA putting it's flagship suite in First in all of its 777s, and AA putting new business class seats in its 767 fleet.
CO putting new BusinessFirst suites in its 777 and 757 fleet (767 is not getting them correct?)
Delta installing its new BusinessElite seats in certain aircraft (which ones beside the 777-200 LRs?)
United's new First suites on its 747s, 767s, and 777s; and new business class seats on those same aircraft.
Any plans for new Envoy class seats on US? NW fleet to get the new Business Elite seats?

Any information is appreciated!

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4106 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
AA putting it's flagship suite in First in all of its 777s, and AA putting new business class seats in its 767 fleet.

I believe AA is done completely with the retrofit on the international widebody fleet but I don't think they have finished all the 762s on the transcontinental fleet yet. The international 752 fleet is just starting to receive the new J seats.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
CO putting new BusinessFirst suites in its 777 and 757 fleet (767 is not getting them correct?)

777, 787 & 752 fleet will have the flat seats that they announced a few months ago. I believe that they stated a little after they made the announcement that the 764 fleet will receive a similar flat seat in J but the 762s won't be retrofitted. I think the rollout of the new seat starts in 2010.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Delta installing its new BusinessElite seats in certain aircraft (which ones beside the 777-200 LRs?)

I think the first 764 went in for the seat mods sometime this month but I have no idea when it’s due out or what the time frame is for retrofitting the entire DL/NW fleet.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
United's new First suites on its 747s, 767s, and 777s; and new business class seats on those same aircraft.

The 763 fleet should be done in the next couple of months (there are only 4 763s with the old seats left) with the 744 fleet following a little later this year. I believe the first 777 is going to roll out in August/September some time.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

And on a related note, is there a consensus about which airline has the best business class seat/product now that they are all upgrading them?

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I believe AA is done completely with the retrofit on the international widebody fleet but I don't think they have finished all the 762s on the transcontinental fleet yet.

Are the 762s getting the same business class seat that 763s & 772s are getting? And are they also upgrading F on the 762s?

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
The international 752 fleet is just starting to receive the new J seats.

For AA, these are just on South American routes right? And all the international 752s are geting winglets too right?

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I think the first 764 went in for the seat mods sometime this month but I have no idea when it’s due out or what the time frame is for retrofitting the entire DL/NW fleet.

But are all the 767s, 757s, and 777s getting the new seat as well?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3888 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I believe AA is done completely with the retrofit on the international widebody fleet but I don't think they have finished all the 762s on the transcontinental fleet yet.

Are the 762s getting the same business class seat that 763s & 772s are getting? And are they also upgrading F on the 762s?

I believe the 762s are getting the old 763 C seats, but I'm not positive.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
The international 752 fleet is just starting to receive the new J seats.

For AA, these are just on South American routes right? And all the international 752s are geting winglets too right?

The new 75Ls are for European routes. All 752s - regardless of their use - are getting winglets.



a.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3812 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
I believe the 762s are getting the old 763 C seats, but I'm not positive.

I don't remember if its the old J seats off the 763s or if its just new covers on the existing ones, I know F on the 762 is getting the old "coffin" F class seats off the 763.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I think the first 764 went in for the seat mods sometime this month but I have no idea when it's due out or what the time frame is for retrofitting the entire DL/NW fleet.

But are all the 767s, 757s, and 777s getting the new seat as well?

I don't think the 752s are getting flat seats at this point. The 763/764 fleet is slated to get the Thompson lie flats and the 777ERs are supposed to get the lie flat seat that is on the 777LRs. I don't believe that DL has announced plans for what is going to happen to the NW fleet at this point.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3672 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
The new 75Ls are for European routes.

And they will have the new AA J Seats that are going in the rest of the fleet?

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I know F on the 762 is getting the old "coffin" F class seats off the 763.

Those are old no? When did AA take F off of the 763s?

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
The 763/764 fleet is slated to get the Thompson lie flats and the 777ERs are supposed to get the lie flat seat that is on the 777LRs.

Any idea on the timeline for this?


User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

The AA breakdown:

763: All 58 a/c complete. Received new j-class seats, new digital IFE and flat screen monitors overhead. New sidewalls and overhead bins through twilight zone.

777: All 47 a/c complete. Received new j-class seats (plus two additional bringing capacity in J to 37). Also received new digital IFE on demand in F and J, near on demand in coach (25 min. cycles).

762 Phase 1: All 15 a/c complete. Received new seat covers for F and J seats.
762 Phase 2: 4 of 15 a/c complete. First receiving new first class seat (former 763 f-class seat, or "Coffin seat," which, BTW, were relatively new when removed from the 763), plus the addition of 1 seat, bringing F capacity to 10. New digital IFE throughout with overhead LCD monitors. No add'l changes to J-class seats beyond the changes in Phase 1.

757 Domestic: 0 of 106 a/c complete. Will get new F and Y seats, new digital IFE and overhead LCD monitors, new lavs and new sidewall covers.

757 International: 1 of 18 a/c complete. Received new J-class seat (same as 763 and 777), new Y seats and digital IFE. J-class IFE on demand, while Y features overhead LCD monitors. A/C also outfitted with new lavs and larger waste tanks for longer stage lengths, plus new sidewall covers.

Side note: Only nine MD-80s are left to be refitted with new Y-galley and four add'l coach seats. 270 a/c have received the modification.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

What's the latest on US's Envoy product? all 762's wre supposed to receive the lie flat seats. Any consideration of upgrading the 333's as well?

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3546 times:
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Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
And on a related note, is there a consensus about which airline has the best business class seat/product now that they are all upgrading them?

Well, difficult to say, other than the full-flats (UA, DL, CO) are better than the angled-lie-flats (AA, US), since most of the full-flats are not out yet (CO, DL's 764ER seats)....

I've tried both UA's new lie-flat on the 763 and DL's herringbone flats on the 77L and each has its strong and weak points:

DL's 77L Herringbone config seats:

Strong points:
- great for privacy and single travelers
- decent storage space throughout
- great duvet and pillows
- great AVOD selection (over 150+ movies, 270+ CDs, etc.)
- touch-screen easy to use (I prefer touch-screen to the handset)
- seat is adjusted to a full-flat position gradually through the auto controls (i.e., no need to get up from the seat and fold down the seat back to turn the seat into a bed like on VS or NZ)
- easy to get out from the window seat (unlike on AA)

Weak points:
- No good seats for couples traveling together who want to talk
- Tray table difficult to take out or retract
- PTV screen could be bigger
- Some people may not like the diagonal seat placement (doesn't bother me personally)

UA's 763ER full-flat seats:

Strong points:
- Pairs of seats, so much better for couples traveling together
- Nice big PTV screen (bigger than DL's )
- Slightly extra width as armrest on one side can be raised when seat fully reclined
- Seat is adjusted to a full-flat position gradually through the auto controls (i.e., no need to get up from the seat and fold down the seat back to turn the seat into a bed like on VS or NZ)
- Easier to get out from the window seat than on AA.

Weak points:
- Virtually no storage space other than a slim 'countertop' just below the screen
- Not as substantial an AVOD selection as on DL (though UA is much better than AA's anemic selection)
- Relatively cheap blankets (especially compared to duvets on DL and AA)
- Some people may not like the backward-facing seats (doesn't bother me personally)


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3424 times:



Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 6):
777: All 47 a/c complete. Received new j-class seats (plus two additional bringing capacity in J to 37). Also received new digital IFE on demand in F and J, near on demand in coach (25 min. cycles).

And what about F--Do all the 777s have the Flagship suites now?

Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 6):
762 Phase 2: 4 of 15 a/c complete. First receiving new first class seat (former 763 f-class seat, or "Coffin seat," which, BTW, were relatively new when removed from the 763),

When were they removed from the 763? How much nicer are these seats than the current F on the 762? And how does J on the 762 compare to the new J seats on the 763/777/757?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
Well, difficult to say, other than the full-flats (UA, DL, CO) are better than the angled-lie-flats (AA, US), since most of the full-flats are not out yet (CO, DL's 764ER seats)....

Thanks for the info...How much nicer are AA & UA's F products than their J products (and CO & DL's J products)?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
I've tried both UA's new lie-flat on the 763 and DL's herringbone flats on the 77L and each has its strong and weak points:

How did service and food compare?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 3287 times:
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Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
And how does J on the 762 compare to the new J seats on the 763/777/757?

The AA 762 J seats are basically cradle seats similar to the old J seats on the 763/777, though with less pitch than their international counterparts. The new J seats on the 763/777/757s are the angled-lie-flats with hard shell backs..

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
How much nicer are AA & UA's F products than their J products (and CO & DL's J products)?

Well, for AA, clearly the F suite (full lie-flat beds) is much better than the angled-lie-flats found in J. There is less difference for UA F vs J since both are now full lie-flats although the F seat clearly has more privacy and space. Food and service wise, not much of a material difference between the F and J product on either AA or UA IMO.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
I've tried both UA's new lie-flat on the 763 and DL's herringbone flats on the 77L and each has its strong and weak points:

How did service and food compare?

Well, airlines offering 2-class cabins do provide better service and food in J than those offering 3-class....UA's J service and food frankly is quite average whereas DL and CO do a much nicer service...examples, both DL and CO have four main course choices while UA only has 3; DL and CO come around to set your table from serving trolleys while UA dumps a tray from a cart in the aisle; DL/CO have more extensive cheese/ice-cream sundae offerings while UA provides you with a small plate of cheese of dessert, etc. AA even offers a slightly differentiated Business service between its 3-class 777 and 2-class 763s: AA's 763 J service is closer to the CO/DL model but its 777 service is closer to the UA model...


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 3265 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Any plans for new Envoy class seats on US?

Didn't they just re-do them?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
NW fleet to get the new Business Elite seats?

At some point in time just. IIRC they will say what gets what and when sometime soon.

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I think the first 764 went in for the seat mods sometime this month but I have no idea when it’s due out or what the time frame is for retrofitting the entire DL/NW fleet.

Last I saw it was still at TechOps getting the re-fit.
Also the 763ERs will get them

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I believe the first 777 is going to roll out in August/September some time.

Are the T7s getting a new Y seat?

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
I don't think the 752s are getting flat seats at this point. The 763/764 fleet is slated to get the Thompson lie flats and the 777ERs are supposed to get the lie flat seat that is on the 777LRs. I don't believe that DL has announced plans for what is going to happen to the NW fleet at this point.

No the 75Es just got new seats that are alot like what the 76s have. Its like a lazy-boy. Doesn't go fully-flat but I want to say something like 158 degress.



yep.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 3219 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
I believe the first 777 is going to roll out in August/September some time.

Are the T7s getting a new Y seat?

yes, UA is switching to 3*3*3 in Y on the 777 along with the new seats in F/J.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
And what about F--Do all the 777s have the Flagship suites now?

Yes, those a/c were the first to get the makeover and were completed several months ago.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
When were they removed from the 763? How much nicer are these seats than the current F on the 762? And how does J on the 762 compare to the new J seats on the 763/777/757?

Several years ago, when AA decided to make the 763s two-class a/c. The 'new' 762 F seat was a lie flat seat with a shell around it, that has electronic controls and a back massage feature. The shell has been removed and the recline restricted somewhat, so it won't be completely lie flat on the 762. Nothing has changed in J on the 762, other than they have new seat covers. The seats themselves are recliner style w/ pneumatic controls.

There are two photos below. The first one is of the old J-class on the 763, which is very similar to the current J-class on the 762. The main differnce is the 762 J has new, lighter blue and gray seat covers and less pitch. The second photo is of the original F class on the 777, which is very similar to the new F seat on the 762, without the shell.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Timothy Hannan
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Abbott




The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 3184 times:
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Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
No the 75Es just got new seats that are alot like what the 76s have. Its like a lazy-boy. Doesn't go fully-flat but I want to say something like 158 degress.

Frankly, I don't like the DL 75E Business seats - the recline is really not enough and the legrest doesn't come up enough..the 'refreshed' 76E BE seat is much better with higher-rising legrests and a 160 degree (or sometimes even more when you have a slightly malfunctioning seat  Smile). I hope they find a better seat for the 75E in the future especially considering that AA is able to put in an angled-lie-flat and CO will actually have a full-flat-bed seat on the 757....


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3000 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
The AA 762 J seats are basically cradle seats similar to the old J seats on the 763/777,

And perhaps a bit off topic, but how do F & J on the 762s compared to UA's PS service?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
Well, airlines offering 2-class cabins do provide better service and food in J than those offering 3-class..

Interesting, but makes sense....What about F food service on UA & UA--much better than the CO/DL J service or similar?


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2754 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):
I hope they find a better seat for the 75E in the future especially considering that AA is able to put in an angled-lie-flat and CO will actually have a full-flat-bed seat on the 757....

Didn't they just put these J seats on the 757s? Probably unlikely then, no?


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