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777LR Routes  
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 8572 times:

If this as been discussed before please disregard, but are there any airlines or cargo companies that plan to utilize the 777LR for its max. range. Correct me if I am wrong, but even with a full load and fuel, it's still able to fly around 9200nm. Will DL fly it that far or do most comapnies not want to risk it?


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 8556 times:
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I don't believe anyone is flying it for it's extreme range, but more for the range it can fly an "extreme" load. This includes DL and EK.

A few of them do have at least one auxiliary fuel tank fitted, but I am not sure if any have all three fitted.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 8546 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
A few of them do have at least one auxiliary fuel tank fitted, but I am not sure if any have all three fitted.

IIRC all these birds are with EK



yep.
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 8440 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
the range it can fly an "extreme" load

But I thought the purpose of that a/c was to carry a load a LOT further than most other airplanes with the efficiency of two engines rather than four?



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 8429 times:
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Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 3):
But I thought the purpose of that a/c was to carry a load a LOT further than most other airplanes with the efficiency of two engines rather than four?

Yup. It can haul around 64t around 7500nm.

The only other plane that can do that is the A380-800, though it has four engines.


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 8372 times:

QR has quite a few of them on order as well


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

I know AC sends theirs YYZ YVR SYD.

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 8236 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
plan to utilize the 777LR for its max. range

Emirates flies their -200LR from DXB to SFO, LAX, and GRU which are all at a significant distance from DXB.

Qatar will be flying their -200LR on the new DOH-IAH route.

Air India flies their -200LR on flights from DEL and BOM to JFK.

PIA ordered the -200LR to operate direct flights from Pakistan to the US but the direct flights have yet to be approved. However they recently uploaded nonstop flights from Pakistan to JFK into Amadeus but I don't believe the flights have gone nonstop as of yet.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 8206 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 3):
But I thought the purpose of that a/c was to carry a load a LOT further than most other airplanes with the efficiency of two engines rather than four?

As Stich said, it's mostly to carry more load over ranges that can currently be served by other aircraft. There are a few cases of routes that use the -200LR's extreme range, as AlitaliaMD11 listed, but there are a lot more -200LR's on the books than these few routes will require.

I suspect the far more lucrative use will be on long-haul (as opposed to ultra long haul) where the 200LR can still run with full payload where other models might end up being payload limited.

Tom.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10234 posts, RR: 97
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7900 times:
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Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
Correct me if I am wrong, but even with a full load and fuel, it's still able to fly around 9200nm

I guess technically, at full PAYLOAD (i.e. max pax AND cargo) it's range is 7 500Nm, as Stitch points out below
9 200Nm (possibly more) is the range with nominal 300 passengers only.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
It can haul around 64t around 7500nm.

9 200Nm (possibly more) is the range with nominal 300 passengers only.

But that means that it can fly, say 275 pax and 20 tonnes+ of belly cargo, comfortably, over 7 500Nm sectors, with plenty in hand for headwinds.

This ability has allowed it to open up the sectors that AlitaliaMD11 described economically, many of which are in the 7 000Nm - 7 500Nm category, and its difficult to see another aircraft which could do that.

As Stitch pointed out, an A380 can haul a similar weight a similar distance.
But it will cost a LOT more in doing so.

But EK are electing to use it to replace the 772LR on some routes with high passenger demand, because it can carry 85% more passengers in their config, at the expense of leaving some belly cargo behind.

The 772LR can carry its full whack on these sectors, and is ideal if the passenger demand is still "being developed"..  Smile

Rgds


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7791 times:
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When DL starts DL200 from ATL-JNB and DL201 from JNB-ATL on 1/2 June 2009 respectively, the 77L will face it's longest, non-stop pax revenue flights (@13582km) thus far?! I can't wait to see the 77L in JNB!  Smile


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7760 times:



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
Emirates flies their -200LR from DXB to SFO, LAX, and GRU which are all at a significant distance from DXB.

Yes, DXB to SFO, LAX, SFO and GRU. But also (until around the end of March): PER; PEK; AKL via SYD; IAH;



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Is there a complete list of 77L routes?

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6715 times:

Some times of the year, DL's BOM-ATL has a block time of 17 h 55m, which is .... long. No other aircraft I know of, save A345, could do that, definitely not with DL's configuration, which is definitely not low density (it's not particularly high either, but the point is, not low).

As for the 77L, its value is more that it can carry a much higher load on long flights than the fact that it can carry a light load bizarrely far. Ultra-long haul is damned hard to make good money on. In essence, you have to clear a yield premium on your seats far enough above the fare for a 1-stop to pay for the additional fuel burned and for the lost cargo revenue. Not that easy to do for a lot of markets.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6680 times:



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 7):
PIA ordered the -200LR to operate direct flights from Pakistan to the US but the direct flights have yet to be approved. However they recently uploaded nonstop flights from Pakistan to JFK into Amadeus but I don't believe the flights have gone nonstop as of yet.

They've been nonstop since November 1, they use 77L's on JFK-LHE. The route is only flown on Saturdays.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA712
PIA also uses 77L's to YYZ nonstop from LHE, KHI, and ISB.


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6572 times:



Quoting Heathrow (Reply 6):
I know AC sends theirs YYZ YVR SYD.

Not at the extremes of range but like a number have said they have the belly loaded as full as possible.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6238 times:



Quoting 747fan (Reply 14):
They've been nonstop since November 1, they use 77L's on JFK-LHE. The route is only flown on Saturdays.

Ah I see, thanks for the update.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
But also (until around the end of March): PER; PEK; AKL via SYD; IAH;

Right, and JFK for a period of time until the 2nd A380 was delivered.

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 12):
Is there a complete list of 77L routes?

This is just loosely constructed from my knowledge and what has been already posted so forgive me if I forget any routes:

77L operators: Delta, Air India, PIA, Emirates, Air Canada, Qatar (Within a few months)

Delta: ATL-BOM (Upcoming: ATL-JNB; DXB; TLV; LAX-SYD; KWI, JFK-TLV)

Air India: DEL-JFK, BOM-JFK

PIA: LHE-JFK, KHI-ISB-MAN-JFK; YYZ (Occasional sub to DXB, BHM, LHR)

Emirates: DXB-LAX; SFO; IAD; GRU; PEK; SYD-AKL; PER (Upcoming: DXB-KIX)

Air Canada: YYZ-YVR-SYD, YYZ-HKG (More...?)

Qatar: (Upcoming: DOH-DXB; CAI; DEL)



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineJMO-777 From Germany, joined Apr 2002, 501 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6176 times:



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 12):
Is there a complete list of 77L routes?

Hi,

here you go (no guarantee of being complete: As we all know "equipment changes w/o notice"):

AI: BOM-JFK, DEL-JFK (occasionally: also to DXB)
EK: DXB-SFO (Today I saw EK226 overflying my house here in Germany),LAX,IAH,GRU, PER,PEK,ICN-SYD-AKL
PK: (occ. Pakistan-MAN[-JFK]), KHI/LHE/ISB-YYZ, KHI/LHE/ISB-JFK
AC: YYZ-YVR-SYD, YYZ-HKG, YYZ-PVG, (occ. YYZ-LHR, YUL-FRA)
DL: ATL-BOM (soon ATL-JNB)
QR: DOH-IAH (soon)

You also can visit my website about the T7 here.

GreetZ,
Jan



~~~ Fly with a Triple Seven and you feel like in heaven ~~~
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6090 times:



Quoting JMO-777 (Reply 17):
ICN-SYD-AKL

EK doesn't operate ICN-SYD-AKL. Morever, EK operates the 77W - not the 77L - on DXB-ICN-DXB, although the 77L was used until mid-Dec 08.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6015 times:



Quoting JMO-777 (Reply 17):

Thank You! I appreciate the info very much!

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineNjgtr82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 121 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5934 times:



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
But also (until around the end of March): PER; PEK; AKL via SYD; IAH;

Right, and JFK for a period of time until the 2nd A380 was delivered.

Its still used ocasionally for JFK, twice this week.


User currently offlineLuisKMIA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

I also understand that in order for the LR to fly 9,200 nm, it needs additional fuel tanks that wind up sacrificing cargo space, and it's obvious that airlines prefer to haul more cargo for a lesser distance.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31412 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5800 times:
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Quoting LuisKMIA (Reply 21):
I also understand that in order for the LR to fly 9,200 nm, it needs additional fuel tanks that wind up sacrificing cargo space, and it's obvious that airlines prefer to haul more cargo for a lesser distance.

Correct. You can put up to three fuel tanks in the aft belly hold, with each one using the equivalent of 2 LD3 positions in volume and a portion of your total payload in weight.


User currently offlineFlylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Aren't all for the published "extreme range" figures predicated on the assumption that the aircraft has all optional fuel tanks? Someone on an earlier forum had suggested that no customer has ordered it in this configuration. If that is the case, then we can't see it put into service on its longest possible route until a customer does. Darn.


...are we there yet?
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5624 times:



Quoting Njgtr82 (Reply 20):
Its still used ocasionally for JFK, twice this week.

But not scheduled to operate DXB-JFK-DXB.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 JMO-777 : Hehe, so I forgot to make a , after the ICN (instead I made an - *g) and have old news in my database
26 GriffAir : Does anyone know the size of the Aux tank in the bin or how much space does it block? And anyone flying the LR with the full Aux tank package?
27 Stitch : Each tank takes up two LD3 positions in the aft hold.[Edited 2009-01-25 10:45:35]
28 Jfk777 : When will United or AA buy 777LR and fly to Australia from ORD or DFW ?
29 747fan : I'm doubtful that this will happen. First off there's the fleet commonality issues as neither AA or UA's 772's have GE90's. Not to mention the 787 li
30 AlitaliaMD11 : United already flies to Australia from LAX and SFO and American has a strong codeshare agreement with Qantas from LAX, SFO, and JFK. I doubt we'll se
31 Tdscanuck : Both curves are shown on the payload range chart, one with and one without aux tanks. Tom.
32 SunriseValley : Assuming "generic" OEW and 210# per passenger incl. baggage , the range with max passenger load without any auxiliary tanks is about 8800nm. capacity
33 JMO-777 : capacity of each tank is 1850 USG That was not a question from me! GreetZ, Jan
34 777way : PIA 77L also fly occassionally to Milan, Paris, Oslo, Copenhagen, Jeddah and Riyadh besides places mentioned in posts above.
35 SunriseValley : Sorry, my snafu, high lighted the text and clicked on the wrong sender by the look of it!!
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