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What's The Next BIG Thing For Embraer?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2900 posts, RR: 9
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7031 times:
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EMB has had great success with the 145. The 170 / 190 seem to do well as the ac under a 737 or A319. They are beautiful machines, I know more on on delivery and that they have done well with the Phenom too, but what is their next strategy? will they enter the major frame market with a models that compete with the 737 or A319/320?


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7018 times:

I believe their current focus is on a military transporter to replace old Herks.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6828 times:

Start building the huge back order of business jets they have....


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6751 times:



Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
will they enter the major frame market with a models that compete with the 737 or A319/320?

Rather not. They have no long-hauls to supplement A320 size. Besides, if they came out with it now, it might be crushed by the A320 and 737 replacements around 2018-2020. They might enter that market afterwards. Their current focus should be to supply a lot of major airlines with E-Jets, in order to build customer relationships with them and have a technological base that makes future Embraer orders from those carriers likely.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
I believe their current focus is on a military transporter to replace old Herks.

The C-390? That should keep them busy for a while.


User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

The next "big" thing for EMB may be in fact small in size: re-entering the turboprop market...

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Perhaps a 170ER and 190ER with slightly larger engines.. Flying up to 3200nm and 3500nm...

And the Embraer 150/150ER.. 50-65 seat Turboprop flying up to 1000nm and 1500nm..

Sounds good???



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6635 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
Perhaps a 170ER and 190ER with slightly larger engines..

Well there already make an 'ER' version and there is no way to add more fuel to the wings. As for adding bigger engines.. really no way to do that either with ground clearance and all the redesign work they would need to to.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6374 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
And the Embraer 150/150ER.. 50-65 seat Turboprop flying up to 1000nm and 1500nm..

A short look at ATR & BBD's numbers shows that the 50 seat turboprop market is pretty much dead. The market is strongly shifted to the 70 seat segment and would certainly support a 90 seat prop. The problem is that developing a 70-90 seat prop would eat into the E170-190's market...

Another alternative would be to re-enter the 19-seat commuter prop market, where it all started for EMB. There hasn't been a new aircraft there for some time now. But that's not where the big money is...


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6349 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 7):
A short look at ATR & BBD's numbers shows that the 50 seat turboprop market is pretty much dead.

Everything is cyclic.. the 20-50 seat market will definitely return.. and, in my opinion, it would be good for Embraer to offer a turboprop that goes from small remote (20 seat) to small (60 seat).. then their 170/190 can go for their.. as long as the turboprops can be similar cockpit-wise to the 170 and 190 (much like the 120)..

Just my thought..

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Well there already make an 'ER' version and there is no way to add more fuel to the wings.

Okay.. then an Embraer 180.. that has 195 wings and engines and 175 body.. carrying 85 pax up to 3200 nm..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6296 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Okay.. then an Embraer 180.. that has 195 wings and engines and 175 body.. carrying 85 pax up to 3200 nm..

Why build an aircraft that there's no justification for?

The 170/190 is a good design as is. It fills a void that nobody else touches. Why should Embraer waste time and money entering a market that two manufacturers already dominate? Take a look at history and there is no time when three manufacturers were successfully competing for the same market. One will always get snuffed out.



DMI
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6075 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Everything is cyclic.. the 20-50 seat market will definitely return.. and, in my opinion, it would be good for Embraer to offer a turboprop that goes from small remote (20 seat) to small (60 seat)..

I think that whom ever develops a new turboprop in the 20-50 seat range is going to become golden. OO has 58-59 EMB-120's that are going to be phased out over the next several years and there really isn't a good replacement for a 30 seater at the moment. Knowing how many little airport's get the 30ish seat turboprops out there, it would be a gold mine in my view to come up with a new or redesigned, even more efficient aircraft.


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5903 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 7):

A short look at ATR & BBD's numbers shows that the 50 seat turboprop market is pretty much dead. The market is strongly shifted to the 70 seat segment and would certainly support a 90 seat prop. The problem is that developing a 70-90 seat prop would eat into the E170-190's market...

Another alternative would be to re-enter the 19-seat commuter prop market, where it all started for EMB. There hasn't been a new aircraft there for some time now. But that's not where the big money is...



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Everything is cyclic.. the 20-50 seat market will definitely return.. and, in my opinion, it would be good for Embraer to offer a turboprop that goes from small remote (20 seat) to small (60 seat).



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 10):
I think that whom ever develops a new turboprop in the 20-50 seat range is going to become golden. OO has 58-59 EMB-120's that are going to be phased out over the next several years and there really isn't a good replacement for a 30 seater at the moment.

The only reason the 50-seat prop market is dead is because there are FAR too many 50-seat jets flying around out there that the airlines are more or less stuck with. Few airlines can afford a mass retirement of their CRJs and ERJs to replace them with props.

Same goes for 30-seat props ... many of those routes were upgraded to 50-seat jets (compounding the issue) ... what 30-seat markets are left are served almost solely by the Brasilia, Saab, and Dash-8. While they all work fairly well, there are no better alternatives either.

The 19-seat market is perhaps in biggest need of a new player. The 1900D is the only big player left, and unless Beech decides to develop a modernized "1900E," there are only so many left.

It would probably be a smart move for Embraer to first visit the Brasilia and see if there isn't a way to modernize and improve the existing airframe. If they can develop a cost-effective modernization program to improve existing airframes, it just may be a hit and provide new life for the airframes being parked in the desert.

Beyond that ... clean-sheet designs for the 19, 30, and 40-50 seat markets could be lucrative for Embraer.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5846 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Well there already make an 'ER' version and there is no way to add more fuel to the wings.

Okay.. then an Embraer 180.. that has 195 wings and engines and 175 body.. carrying 85 pax up to 3200 nm..

Actually, they are preparing the "E-170AR" version for Virgin Nigeria.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tended-range-variant-of-e-170.html

Quote:
"Virgin Nigeria has been revealed as the launch customer for the extended range version of the Embraer 170. The Lagos-based carrier holds standing orders for seven E-170s and all seven are being produced as extended range 'AR' variants, Embraer executive VP airline market Mauro Kern tells ATI.

[.....]

The AR version, which is available for the E-190 and E-195, adds an extra 200nm (370km) to the range of the E-170LR and E-175LR at full payload. The E-170LR's range is around 2,000nm while the range for the E-175LR is about 1,900nm."


Launching a totally new variant now in the current economic climate might not be prudent.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2900 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 4605 times:
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Would a version of the Phenom 200, or even a bit larger, work as a commercial aircraft to service small remote towns. I could see an airline like Cape Air replace those 5 seater props from BOS to Provincetown with a nicer, smoother jet.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 4342 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Well there already make an 'ER' version and there is no way to add more fuel to the wings.

How about extra fuel tanks in the tail, tail-wings and baggage compartment sides?
I'm pretty sure, 7 hours non-stop on a E190 would make some passengers claustrophobic, but surely there could be a market for a EJet with extra fuel tanks.

I would dare to say that currently the E195 could be a rather indirect competitor of the A318 and B737-600.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 13 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Someone, somewhere will come up with a NG 30-50 seater prop, if the savings are large enough, airlines will replace their existing fleet. I would have though Embraer wouild be in a good position to grab this market, with their history in this section, and established support networks and reputation around the world (which the Chinese and Indians don't have yet)

The question is, when will this time arise? Embraer got bitten badly by the failure of the 19 seater CBA123, which was a fine plane but at the wrong time, and won't want to make the same mistake again!



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

Might not be the place for it but I thought i'd comment on my recent trip on the 170 AND 190 (lucky me) This, BTW, was my first ride on the E-Jets. Both were on US Airways this weekend. On the 170, it seemed to me like wither the windows were too high or the seats are too low. Which is the exact opposite of the CR2. Also found it a little surprising that there were no IFE on the 190? What's the range of the bird the US operates?


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 4064 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
Also found it a little surprising that there were no IFE on the 190?

IFE is offered on the 170/190... USAirways just does not have it



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Reducing fuel consumption by 15% by introducing GTF's on Emb 190/195 ?

User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3871 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
How about extra fuel tanks in the tail, tail-wings and baggage compartment sides?
I'm pretty sure, 7 hours non-stop on a E190 would make some passengers claustrophobic, but surely there could be a market for a EJet with extra fuel tanks.

What's a tail wing? Further, the aircraft is already designed with an aft CG. You couldn't throw that much weight back there. You would also have to carry a lot more potable water and have a bigger holding tank. How much are you going to have to beef up the structure to carry that extra 10,000 pounds of fuel? At long range cruise a 170 already burns ~3200pph so what you're proposing would take at least that.

Why would any airline need an aircraft that only carries about 100 people to have 7 hours of endurance?



DMI
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3804 times:
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Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 12):
The AR version, which is available for the E-190 and E-195, adds an extra 200nm (370km) to the range of the E-170LR and E-175LR at full payload. The E-170LR's range is around 2,000nm while the range for the E-175LR is about 1,900nm."

So that gives the E170AR around 4000 km range with 70 pax...? That must be about 5 hours of flying. How are the economics on such a flight?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3786 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 10):
I think that whom ever develops a new turboprop in the 20-50 seat range is going to become golden. OO has 58-59 EMB-120's that are going to be phased out over the next several years and there really isn't a good replacement for a 30 seater at the moment. Knowing how many little airport's get the 30ish seat turboprops out there, it would be a gold mine in my view to come up with a new or redesigned, even more efficient aircraft.

Airlines based in the Caribbean will also be looking for a new turbo-prop. LIAT, Caribbean Airlines and possibly even a few of the others like Bahamasair, Cayman Airways, Air Jamaica etc. No single carrier is likely to order anything more than about 10 (except LI who will need close to 15 or so), but collectively that's a market for up to 50 aircraft (i'm including Latin American Airlines who fly to the Caribbean too).

AA's got loads of ATRs. QF has got a few Dash8s that will need replacing. With ATR being the sole supplier after Bombardier discontinued the -300 model, the 50 seat turbo-prop market will be ripe for the picking in 5-10 years.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

If EMB develops a new prop, hopefully it will vibrate less and be quieter in the cabin. Those are the two biggest issues I have when flying the EMB-120.


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3597 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 19):
Why would any airline need an aircraft that only carries about 100 people to have 7 hours of endurance?

I was thinking on E-Jet customer CM, which can't use their E190 to cover the B737-700 MVD-PTY or EZE-PTY routes the same way they change equipment between Embraer and Boeing for the up to 4+hour routes.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

The next thing for them , could be building Rafales for Brasilian AF , if Gvt of Brasil goes ahead with what they expect.

User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Reply 25, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3448 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
I would dare to say that currently the E195 could be a rather indirect competitor of the A318 and B737-600.

The E190 and E195 are direct competitors to the A318 and 736. And have been winning by a fair margin.

Competition is not about having the same number of seats, it is about being considered valid alternatives for getting the same job done.


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