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IB Is Now Worth More Than BA  
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10516 times:

Last friday, IB's market value overtook BA's. Indeed, BA's share price has been falling continuously over the past months, while IB's has stayed relatively stable throughout the turmoil. While this is a singular event, it does show how the situation has flipped over since the beginning of the merger talks in july 2008. The fall of the pound is not helping BA either.

If they were to merge in the current state, IB would make up 50.4% of the merged group, with BA the remaining 49.6%. Needless to say, these terms are unacceptable for BA. Willie Walsh has even gone as far as saying that the IB share is overpriced, which if you ask me is simply false and a clear sign of desperation on BA's side.

BA has wasted one opportunity after the other to acquire IB, and now they're paying for it. After six months of merger talks with (suspiciously) no announcements on the progress of the negotiations from either side, now comes this, which makes one have very serious doubts about this merger ever happening. BA seems to excel at missing opportunities and making mergers fail...

BA share:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=B...ues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

IB share:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=I...ues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

For now, article only in Spanish (the FT article is locked for non-subscribers): http://www.elmundo.es/mundodinero/2009/01/23/economia/1232738535.html

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10469 times:

There is also some news on Reuters and other sources:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE50N0CO20090124
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ALeqM5hHkeo_zmh-S2Fa8Q7kczwW370yyg
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa600d0a-e9ba-11dd-9535-0000779fd2ac.html


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

Despite my admiration for BA, I knew that they would never go through with this deal like all of their previous deal! Either they don't care or don't have the guts!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10440 times:

While there were a lot of synergies to be had, BA and IB are very different airlines to me.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4737 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10443 times:
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Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
BA has wasted one opportunity after the other to acquire IB, and now they're paying for it. After six months of merger talks with (suspiciously) no announcements on the progress of the negotiations from either side, now comes this, which makes one have very serious doubts about this merger ever happening. BA seems to excel at missing opportunities and making mergers fail...

I think one of the reasons for the troubles BA is having with mergers could be the fact that they do not want to merge at all. The possible mergers are "forced" upon them. AF-KLM have shown that such a merger can work. KLM is still operating under its own identity and is part of a joint-venture in which it is not the largest partner, since AF is playing that role.

The stockholders should consider that if BA continuously loses out to AF-KLM and LH, two formidable competitors who are gaining market share and value in European aviation, that their position will continue to weaken over time. But I am no shareholder, so whatever decision is going to be made, it is not up to me!


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10413 times:

What an interesting phenomenon, having BA and IB at the same stock value.

I agree that BA has missed opportunities to exercise a merger in the past, but in the current situation it cannot accept and equal or even minority part in a merger with IB. Even if the stock price put them equal, BA is worth much more.

Although it has shrunk, BA is still a world airline and it feels like one. IB is spanish airline and it feels like one. (How many crew bases does IB have outside Spain?)
I am a great believer that T5 will bring a new era for BA, with smoother, more efficient operations, on top of high yielding markets, it will prevail and we will see strong performance after the storm. A transatlantic alliance will put it in an even stronger position.

IB is currently doing very well given it is dominant in a market that is thus far resilient to the crisis. But it will face more and more competition, from US airlines, Latin airlines -even its friend LAN with all those 787s coming, as well as other European airlines.


User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10395 times:



Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
If they were to merge in the current state, IB would make up 50.4% of the merged group, with BA the remaining 49.6%. Needless to say, these terms are unacceptable for BA. Willie Walsh has even gone as far as saying that the IB share is overpriced, which if you ask me is simply false and a clear sign of desperation on BA's side.

I do think IB is over priced, BA is almost double the airline IB is.

BA....IB

Fleet- 241 (+51)....124(+27)

Passengers carried-33,161,000 ....27,799,000

Employees-???....24,348

Destinations-147....115

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10377 times:
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Entirely consistent with what i have been saying for sometime

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4191553

BA ARE and have been more threatened by TAKE OVER than in the market for acquisitions.

The potential buyers will be largely money for outside the industry (and majority UK based finances) and with a minority stake from another large international airline player (Conjecture only but probably Mid East based!)


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10369 times:



Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
BA seems to excel at missing opportunities and making mergers fail...

No complaints here...
Why would IB merge with BA taking into account just a few months ago BA was discussing a possible merge with QF and failed... What a blessing this turned out to be for QF... I believe had the merger gone ahead QF would be in deeper waters...
I personally feel from QF perspective, NZ will be a better candidate to merge taking into account both operate in a Oceania...

as for BA / IB... My wild guess is as good as everyone Else, we will wait and see which carrier nose dives 1st...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10340 times:

Hi all

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 6):
I do think IB is over priced, BA is almost double the airline IB is

Almost double? check your figures. For BA to Double IB they must transport over 56 Million paps which at the moment they don't.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
Even if the stock price put them equal, BA is worth much more

That's your respectable opinion, but the fact is that BA is not worth more at this precised moment. Why? who knows the stock market has it's own rules.


The fact is that at the moment a merger between BA and IB would leave the companies in control of Caja Madrid who would be the largest shareholder there fore BA would no longer be British (and that is one hell of a problem).



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10330 times:



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 3):
While there were a lot of synergies to be had, BA and IB are very different airlines to me.

Most definitely. A BA / IB merger would be longer and more painful than AF/KL or any of the LH acquisitions. In the long term, it would produce a very strong airline that could continue to compete in Europe very well.

BA's problem is that they waited too long to act - all of the better fits got asked to dance by someone else first. IB is the best of the flawed remaining options for a tie-up.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
Although it has shrunk, BA is still a world airline and it feels like one. IB is spanish airline and it feels like one. (How many crew bases does IB have outside Spain?)

How many crew bases does AF have outside of France? My understanding is that all crew is based out of France. Up until DL/NW, they were the largest airline on earth. Perhaps your opinions of BA being more global come from the view that their network, aligned to the former British empire, contains more important destinations than IB's network, aligned more to the former Spanish empire (IB's long haul focuses strongly on latin America, whereas BA's longhaul focuses on North America, Australia, former British Africa, India, and HKG.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):

IB is currently doing very well given it is dominant in a market that is thus far resilient to the crisis. But it will face more and more competition, from US airlines, Latin airlines -even its friend LAN with all those 787s coming, as well as other European airlines.

The big difference between BA and IB is that IB's primary international market, Latin America, is rapidly growing. Nowhere is doing better, despite the current crisis. The transatlantic routes from Spain to Latin America will likely continue to show strength, whereas BA's primary stronghold, transatlantic routes to North America, will not likely grow anytime soon, and with increased competition for a market not growing, now from larger competitors (AF/KL - DL/NW and the combined LH/SN/LX/BMI - UA / CO).

A merger with IB would open up the growing South American market to BA in a way they could get otherwise. It comes down to this - Spanish speaking people, regardless of their English abilities, would rather connect in MAD, since sure as hell, no one will speak Spanish to them in LHR. English speaking people, however (which represent most of BA's major markets), don't care whether they connect in LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC, ZRH, BRU, or wherever, because staff there will inevitably speak English just fine. IB has a corner on TATL to South America.

I think we'll see LAN and IB open up a revenue sharing joint venture in the future much how AF/KL has with DL/NW and LH has with UA. They'll leverage each other's strength to build a very formidable strength across the Atlantic to South America.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 4):
I think one of the reasons for the troubles BA is having with mergers could be the fact that they do not want to merge at all. The possible mergers are "forced" upon them. AF-KLM have shown that such a merger can work. KLM is still operating under its own identity and is part of a joint-venture in which it is not the largest partner, since AF is playing that role.

Of course not. As airlines come, none are as arrogant as BA. I can think of no other airline whose executives would come out and insult half of their passengers, saying they take a good portion of the Y cabin along as charity. Submitting to a merger, not a takeover, would be admitting they can't do it alone. The truth is, they can't. They could compete admirably when it was them vs LH vs AF vs KL vs LX vs whoever else, but now, there are two majors in Europe and a field of secondary players. BA is certainly not a small airline, but they are not an AF/KL/AZ or LH/SN/LX/BD large player, they can't compete with airlines that large on their own. They'll never merge with IB at current share valuations because that would insult their pride entirely too much.

BA's problem. There is no one worth merging with left who is sufficiently smaller than they are for it to be a takeover, not a merger of equals, where BA wouldn't be alone in command of the merged entity. The scary thing is, if things continue a few more years, someone might be buying BA.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10270 times:
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Flyingdreamliner

Quote:
BA's problem. There is no one worth merging with left who is sufficiently smaller than they are for it to be a takeover, not a merger of equals, where BA wouldn't be alone in command of the merged entity. The scary thing is, if things continue a few more years, someone might be buying BA.

The threat and timescale is much shorter than a few years -Its present now and as i keep pointing people seem to be blinkered into thinking the risk is inner industry ,well its not.
BA are just another business with currently CASH in the bank and I'll tell you quite few finance groups would like their hands on that and some of the considered value of Heathrow slots wouldn't go a miss either.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10270 times:

Couldn't IB just BA now since they are bigger anyway...?

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4737 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10259 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
Of course not

Of course not? I think you posted the same idea as I did. Your description was a bit more detailed but basically we are saying the same thing imho  Smile.


User currently offlineBy188b From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10153 times:



Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 9):
BA would no longer be British (and that is one hell of a problem).

why is it a problem?



next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10139 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 11):
Quote:
BA's problem. There is no one worth merging with left who is sufficiently smaller than they are for it to be a takeover, not a merger of equals, where BA wouldn't be alone in command of the merged entity. The scary thing is, if things continue a few more years, someone might be buying BA.

The threat and timescale is much shorter than a few years -Its present now and as i keep pointing people seem to be blinkered into thinking the risk is inner industry ,well its not.
BA are just another business with currently CASH in the bank and I'll tell you quite few finance groups would like their hands on that and some of the considered value of Heathrow slots wouldn't go a miss either.

Very, very true. They are increasingly a smaller airline with a number of valuable assets - truly a takeover target. The problem, I fear, is that if a Star Alliance member (LH most likely) made a play, they wouldn't get far, due to their presence via BMI, the combined would be too great (esp. considering the proximity of Virgin to Star) and AF/KL would be far too large for the EU to allow it if they took in BA.

If Swire had the money, they would make a perfect suitor to takeover BA. A year ago I would have said BA had better watch out for the Gulf States carriers, but now their economy is faring worse than many, and they aren't in such a position. I know BA to be an ideal target, but I haven't got the first idea of who would be coming after them who is big enough to do it but not so big as to get in trouble trying to take BA.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 13):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 10):
Of course not

Of course not? I think you posted the same idea as I did. Your description was a bit more detailed but basically we are saying the same thing imho Smile.

Haha, indeed. I agree with you 100%. I apologize, I didn't mean to repeat you, I guess it just kind of happened in my long, droning post.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10111 times:



Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 9):
Almost double? check your figures. For BA to Double IB they must transport over 56 Million paps which at the moment they don't.

BA may not be double the size of IB (that is why I said almost), but BA is still a hell of a lot bigger than IB.

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10064 times:
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Flyingdreamer Swire Group just about tick ALL the boxes don't they?

1. Having UK registered financing and acquisition business.
2. Group running airlines experience decades old
3. Majority owner still of One World participating Hong Kong Based Cathay Pacific an airline that has real synergy with BA including management culture.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10013 times:



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
Even if the stock price put them equal, BA is worth much more.

It's certainly your opinion, yes.......but the market doesn't think so.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
Although it has shrunk, BA is still a world airline and it feels like one. IB is spanish airline and it feels like one. (How many crew bases does IB have outside Spain?)

Again, your opinion only and of what real relevance does the number of crew bases have?

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
I am a great believer that T5 will bring a new era for BA, with smoother, more efficient operations, on top of high yielding markets, it will prevail and we will see strong performance after the storm. A transatlantic alliance will put it in an even stronger position.

Again, only your opinion and I do admire your optimism. However, it's been open almost a year and I certainly don't see T5 as bringing in any new 'era' as you seem to do. How would it be a new era? Equally, it only takes a few "high yeieding" markets to substantially reduce and an airline like BA is in deep trouble entirely of their own making.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9904 times:



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 16):

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 9):
Almost double? check your figures. For BA to Double IB they must transport over 56 Million paps which at the moment they don't.

BA may not be double the size of IB (that is why I said almost), but BA is still a hell of a lot bigger than IB.

Atlanta

In what terms? They are smaller in market cap, I think that makes them smaller.

Google has 20,000 employees and a 95 billion dollar market cap and General Motors has 265,000 employees and a 2 billion dollar market cap... dare you say GM is larger? Does employee figures or number of products sold mean much if the company itself is not worth that much?

In a market system, we rely on the market to value a company. BA may carry more passengers, but United carries as many passengers as both combined, so are they bigger? Not in any terms any reasonable person cares about.

Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 17):
Flyingdreamer Swire Group just about tick ALL the boxes don't they?

1. Having UK registered financing and acquisition business.
2. Group running airlines experience decades old
3. Majority owner still of One World participating Hong Kong Based Cathay Pacific an airline that has real synergy with BA including management culture.

I think if Swire could get the financing for it, I think that they certainly would be the ideal candidate to buy BA and increase profitability.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineOrlando666 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

generally speaking (whatever the reasons) BA network is really shrinking especially on long-haul. Destinations reduced, frequencies reduced, 77E replacing 744 routes; gatwick easyjet is now bigger than BA! openskies venture also expansion frozen. I mean not recently with the economic crisis, but even before that. Only significant route 2009 will be LCY-NYC with A318. Not to mention massive pension obligations.

User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9885 times:

hi all

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 16):
BA may not be double the size of IB (that is why I said almost), but BA is still a hell of a lot bigger than IB.

Depends what you consider a hell of a lot bigger Big grin In number of pax carried about 19% more by BA in company value IB is bigger (subject of this topic) I agree that BA is bigger (but not a great difference between them at this moment) For me LH and AF/KLM are a hell of a lot bigger.



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9859 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
Again, your opinion only and of what real relevance does the number of crew bases have?

Thank you for respecting my opinion. My question on the number of IB crew bases outside Spain is just a small indicator of how global BA is compared to IB.
BA understands its global passengers, whether in India, China, Japan or the US. Iberia just about understands its latin customers.

IB is clearly in a good position now, and hence its market value, but should LatAms' economy go into the abyss, it would be terribly exposed. Actually, even this year some latAm economies are not looking too good (Mexico, Argentina, Ecuador and Venezuela for instance). Brasil and some others are slowing down fast even if they are not expected to go into recession.


User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9755 times:
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Summa767

No airline in the world is as exposed as BA in the current recession, due their complete reliance on the North Atlantic elite cabins.

Their other long haul markets are all financially headed south most notably India and the Mid East region

Beyond this they have very limited long haul structure left in reality

South East Asia - just Bangkok Singapore Hong Kong and Tokyo and Beijing and Shanghai in China - The Mid East and US carriers have a greater regional presence !

Africa East African colonial capitals and South Africa

Only Luanda (just one flight a week !) and Lagos/Abuja seem to make significant money.

Sydney remains because of the need to have a presence for the Joint revenue agreement with QF to be valid

And the Caribbean and Indian Ocean flight are completely leisure oriented

South American flight with own metal is smaller than AF/KL and LH.

BA certainly have Global Brand awareness and this can be valued in the market.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9726 times:



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 22):

IB is clearly in a good position now, and hence its market value, but should LatAms' economy go into the abyss, it would be terribly exposed. Actually, even this year some latAm economies are not looking too good (Mexico, Argentina, Ecuador and Venezuela for instance). Brasil and some others are slowing down fast even if they are not expected to go into recession.

Last I checked, the British economy, and the economies of nearly every major market for British are in recession, and generally, growth slowing down beats recession every time. Saying "if Latin America slowed down..." makes little sense, if Latin America slowed down, IB would be in the same boat BA, and many other airlines, are in.

IB has a corner on longhaul from Europe to Latin America, and no one can easily take that from them (unless someone else gets a Spanish speaking European hub and crews). They only have room to grow as a greater European airline - connecting to more destinations.

And if they are doing this well while Spain's economy is doing so poorly (unemployment of 15%?), then I can only imagine how strong IB will be when things turn around.

I'm just saying, IB is well set in terms of a less competitive core market than BA and more room to grow.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
25 Vincewy : Even if we disregard the size for the moment, which market shares would I rather have? BA, UA, AA? Yes they're bigger, but I would take JJ and IB any
26 Summa767 : Absolutely. And that's reflected in ts market price. I have been called an optimist, but I remain hopeful that after the storm, BA will do very well
27 R2rho : Well... BA may be (somewhat, but a not a hell of a lot more as has been said) bigger in fleet and passengers carried, and both carriers are in good s
28 FlyDreamliner : I agree, the future is very optimistic for IB, they have much more room to grow and are better positioned than BA, who is right now caught between th
29 Knid : A share price is in technical terms is a discounted value of future earnings of the company. Despite BA been in physical terms been the larger airlin
30 B747-4U3 : I think Willie Walsh would be better to walk away from the merger than accept anything less that a 60:40 merger in favour of BA. When accessing the va
31 Atmx2000 : Well, let us see if the Eurozone stays intact. It wouldn't surprise me if the southern Eurozone countries leave the Euro due their lack of competitiv
32 Hotelmode : Surely a large chunk of the difference is the Euro/Pound exchange rate and the depressed UK stock market? Iberia may only carry 19% fewer pax, but BA
33 Mutu : Really? Well they certainly do SQ A380 ar LHR and I am pretty sure others as well (CX QF) as well as its wn fleet of course Applying this logic, you
34 Post contains links BeyondBristol : I hope everyone reads the articles fully, especially from respected prints such as the FT. Just to point out, even IB have admitted that a majority IB
35 Rutankrd : On the North Atlantic neither AF/KL or LH have exposure anywhere near the BA level. I have previous said again and again that the BA elite products a
36 FlyDreamliner : Well, the stock price indicates that investors and the market disagree with you, and do not foresee the future performance of BA being as strong as I
37 EPA001 : Maybe so, maybe not. But the world is changing and imho at present SQ or EK or several other airlines are at least equally good as any BA product! An
38 BA777ER236 : Well, I can tell you that virtually every pilot that works for BA will tell you that it has made a huge operational difference and is a whole new bal
39 Knid : I doubt anyone is saying BA wont survive, its just that the airline doesn't have as strong future prospects as IB. BA's busniess practices while effe
40 DocLightning : First of all, ¡Buen Trabajo! I have to root for my peeps. Pity BA's product is so much better. Now... Good airlines fly good airplanes, this is true.
41 BA777ER236 : Well, the company seem to be constantly re-evaluating and the 'buzz phrase' within BA is 'change' (a bit like Barack Obama!). BA have been known to a
42 SKY1 : Yes, that's true ...but is not less true right now BA does need more to IB than IB might need BA. Do you think the current BA is the same one than th
43 Rutankrd : BA777ER236 BA are a listed PLC and not a family business. They are simply a business run by the appointed board of Directors to make a profit and pay
44 Flyglobal : Coming back to mergers, actually the so called mergers BA so far evaluated would have been take overs in fact according to their obvious strategy. Wha
45 Viscount724 : But for connecting traffic to the rest of the workd, AF/KL and LH have much larger networks. You can reach more destinations with a single connection
46 SKY1 : AY is govt. owned, Malev is a very small airline, how could it interest to BA? ...LAN? why LAN? do u think LAN need BA for something? Asian carrier .
47 Babybus : We all know that share prices can be manipulated through a variety of inputs. The fact that IB could be considered worth more than BA proves this poin
48 Icaro : I think this is a desperate move from BA's side to try and lower IB's market value, ( -3'14% by now)
49 B747-4U3 : Not necessarily. There are many things going on at the moment in the stock market. If you study BA's share price carefully, it has actually be perfor
50 JJJ : That's true, BA has a stronger brand, more diverse destination portfolio, bigger fleet and generally perceived as the bigger. However IB has loads of
51 EDICHC : Quite, in fact as recently as last year regulators even put a block on a QF/NZ codeshare agreement.
52 Caribillo : Forget that. Euro is an one-way trip. Problem is that British donnot make alliances, they conquer. BA knows that they can't survive alone, but they c
53 B747-4U3 : I can't quite tell if you are joking or not! In England, we don't really care who owns a company. Many big British companies (Jaguar, Corus, BAA...et
54 Caribillo : Today, at market prices, it is absolutely fair. I agree 100%. But you have to have in mind that the business approach of VS is quite different. BA is
55 FlyingAY : Considering that IB and BA are worth about the same in stock market, and if things really look this rosy for IB and that bad for BA, wouldn't that ma
56 Mutu : well with todays BA profits warning (of sorts) the gap is set to widen in the short term. Seems like trading in £'s is not a good thing these days!!!
57 JJJ : It's a completely different estrategy. Buying growth (IB) vs. buying out a more direct competitor (AF/KL/LH). Both make sense in a way, so price and
58 R2rho : We can discuss forever about how much undervalued or not the BA share is, and how much more it should be worth, but the point here is, BA has screwed
59 Summa767 : What a good idea. Actually, despite all the noise about the financial side of the merger, BA and IB are continuing working on the detail of such merg
60 MillwallSean : Can I just point out that Virgin is 49% owned by SQ and that they have been on the brink of bankruptcy a few times the last 20 years. Branson have ba
61 Post contains links Tramway : If as Summa767 suggests, that a decision will not be made until the summer, I think that we will see a down turn in the share value of IB. According t
62 BA777ER236 : I quite agree and sometimes fresh blood and investment is a good thing. From a selfish perspective, if I still have a job, that's OK. I'm sure my con
63 Antonovman : well said BA777ER236, it seems his anti-BA sentiment has become an obsession with him as every single post he has written is slagging off BA in one f
64 FlyDreamliner : I agree - if there were any BA-IB merger, both brands would persist, just as with AF/KL, seeing as each brand has tremendous strength in its core mar
65 Caribillo : The original idea was to create a third company who would be the owner of both airlines. The HQ would be placed on a third country and each airline w
66 Dme : As today, IBERIA net profit has been reduced by 90% in 2008 to 32 million euros. At least it is positive and not negative; we will see what happens in
67 Post contains links R2rho : Latest statements from IB's CEO: "Both airlines are viable as separate companies, even though the merger would be the best solution". A "conclusion" w
68 Kelual : It seems that everyone see the point of this merger apart form the British. I think Caja Madrid should not merge with a Company who is continiously lo
69 BY188B : explain?
70 B747-4U3 : Absolutely ridiculous! The British realise the value of this merger as much as anyone else does. However, BA are not simply going to give their compa
71 YULWinterSkies : Come on, we all know what our Spanish friend means: it is a secret to nobody that BA is a big national pride for MANY British people (it's ok by me i
72 R2rho : I'm betting on a 55-45 merger in the end, as has been rumored.
73 Dme : It is obvious that BA is worth more than IB (even for me as an Spaniard). How much?, Which difference?, Pension problem?, IB quality?, many questions
74 BY188B : No you ''come on''. British people are very proud of BA , HOWEVER since the thatcher era most of our british brands have been sold off to foreign own
75 Mutu : Just a small note: BA's equity is worth less than IB's at present for various factors disucssed here. HOWEVER the BA business has a recent estimated
76 OzGlobal : Agreed. On of them offers service to customers; the other service to staff! I'm not; As a global user of BA as part of OneWorld, what differentiates
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