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DOT: 2009 US-Brazil Frequency Applications  
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

OST-2009-0003 - 2009 US-Brazil Combination Frequency Proceeding

January 27, 2009

Supplement of Continental Airlines

Continental has applied for seven U.S.-Brazil frequencies to institute daily New Orleans-Houston-Rio de Janeiro service beginning in June 2009, and the Department has consolidated Continental's application with Spirit's application to institute daily Fort Lauderdale-Manaus service using the remaining seven weekly frequencies that will become available in October 2009. The Department has also invited other carriers to apply for these 2009 U.S.-Brazil combination frequencies in this proceeding.

Continental supplements its Brazil application with this pleading and the accompanying exhibits to provide additional schedule and aircraft information supporting selection of Continental's proposal in accordance with Order 2009-1-11 (The Department requested city-pairs, nonstop schedule and equipment type with respect to each applicant's service proposal).

Continental urges the Department to grant Continental's application for authority to offer service between New Orleans/Houston and Rio de Janeiro promptly.

Counsel: Crowell & Moring, Bruce Keiner, 202-624-2500

----------------------------------------

January 27, 2009

Application of American Airlines

American Airlines, Inc., under Order 2009-1-4, January 9, 2009 instituting the captioned proceeding, and Order 2009-1-11, January 22, 2009 establishing revised procedures, hereby applies for the allocation of three weekly U.S.-Brazil combination frequencies to operate nonstop service between New York (JFK) and Rio de Janeiro. American will use B767-300 aircraft with 225 seats (30C/195Y), and is seeking authority effect June 1, 2009 (first preference) or October 1, 2009 (second preference).

American holds certificate authority to serve between New York (JFK) and Rio de Janeiro. See Route 389, as amended by Order 2001-5-26, May 18, 2001, timely renewal application pending (OST-1995-257).

Counsel: American, Carl Nelson, 202-496-5647

-------------------------------------

January 27, 2009

Application of Delta Air Lines

Delta Air Lines, Inc. hereby applies for an allocation of seven frequencies for use on the Atlanta-Rio de Janeiro route, commencing December 18, 2009. Delta will ensure the highest and best public interest use of the requested frequencies by serving the largest and most important traffic point eligible for 2009 award service, Rio de Janeiro, from the world's largest airline hub, Atlanta.

Delta plans to use the requested frequencies to operate nonstop, year-round, service between Atlanta and Rio de Janeiro, effective December 18, 2009. Delta will utilize 215-seat Boeing 767-300ER aircraft, equipped with 34 BusinessElite and 181 economy class seats.

Counsel: Delta, Sascha Van der Bellen, 202-842-4184

-------------------------------------------

January 27, 2009

Notice of Spirit Airlines Withdrawing Application

This is to advise that Spirit Airlines, Inc. hereby withdraws its application for a frequency allocation and for the seven weekly combination frequencies that will be available for operation in October 2009. Spirit remains interested in serving Brazil and anticipates that it will apply for frequencies that become available in October 2010.

Counsel: Kirstein & Young, Joanne Young, 202-331-3348

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7577 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Wow, so far just 17 requests for the next 14 frequencies, all of them to GIG as i expect. It's clear with the results given by the new services to MAO, FOR, REC, SSA and CNF, together with the current problems, airlines are not looking to venture on new markets.

And of course, DL application is looking to release the 7 unrestricted frequencies ATL-GIG nowadays in use, probably to allow more services to São Paulo.

Spirit isn't a surpise at all, given how MAO is well served now to Florida.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

US is also applying for PHL-CLT-GIG.   That's a combined demand of about 5 PDEW. Apparently they're taking a page from the DL plan-by-ouja-board manual.

[Edited 2009-01-27 15:33:32]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAlianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7463 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
Notice of Spirit Airlines Withdrawing Application

This is to advise that Spirit Airlines, Inc. hereby withdraws its application for a frequency allocation and for the seven weekly combination frequencies that will be available for operation in October 2009.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Spirit isn't a surpise at all, given how MAO is well served now to Florida.

But perhaps not at NK's model of an LCC to gain market by price competition.

I was looking forward to Spirit's entry into Brasil. Hope they'll be in a better position to open a Brasil route next year or sooner.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
US is also applying for PHL-CLT-GIG

Is that confirmed?


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5246 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7463 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
And of course, DL application is looking to release the 7 unrestricted frequencies ATL-GIG nowadays in use, probably to allow more services to São Paulo.

Ah that explains why they're applying for ATL-GIG when they already fly the route. And I agree, if awarded the rights to ATL-GIG, they'll likely use the 7 freed frequencies for additional GRU services.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Proposed Schedules:

Continental

Summer:
CO 129 daily EQV* MSY 1845 IAH 1959 2115 GIG 0915+1
CO 128 daily EQV* GIG 2145 IAH 0600+1 0705 MSY 0820

Winter:
CO 129 daily EQV* MSY 1845 IAH 2000 2100 GIG 1110+1
CO 128 daily EQV* GIG 2340 IAH 0600+1 0705 MSY 0817

*MSY-IAH/IAH-MSY: 737 | IAH-GIG/GIG-IAH: 762

----------------------------------

Delta

Summer:
DL 237 daily 763 ATL 1840 GIG 0515+1
DL 238 daily 763 GIG 2355 ATL 0855+1

Winter:
DL 237 daily 763 ATL 1840 GIG 0715+1
DL 238 daily 763 GIG 2355 ATL 0655+1

----------------------------------

American

Summer:
AA 997 146 763 JFK 2125 GIG 0855+1
AA 974 257 763 GIG 2105 JFK 0615+1

Winter:
AA 997 146 763 JFK 2125 GIG 0655+1
AA 974 257 763 GIG 2105 JFK 0815+1

[Edited 2009-01-27 16:02:25]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7329 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
It's clear with the results given by the new services to MAO, FOR, REC, SSA and CNF, together with the current problems, airlines are not looking to venture on new markets.

Only MAO is performing badly. I just think it more has to with future forecasts than current performance. I am surprised to see AA avoid the opportunity to get into FOR or BSB, but at the same time, if they really want FOR in the future, they can serve it whenever they wish on a triangle with SSA or REC (maybe even do MIA-FOR-REC-MIA 4w and MIA-SSA-MIA 3w).

Quoting Alianza (Reply 3):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
US is also applying for PHL-CLT-GIG

Is that confirmed?

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

Also, I expect DL to revise their application for four frequencies and for both DL and AA to settle on the winter frequencies, and therefore there will be no need for a selection process.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7262 times:

If DL were smart, they would have gone for daily JFK-GIG. That would have not only crushed AA's application, but would also allow DL to reinstate JFK-EZE service in the summer. DL could fly JFK-GIG-EZE in the summer and separate them in the winter. Operating GIG-EZE in the winter would also be very interesting, since Brazil-Argentina traffic grows.

User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7181 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Apparently they're taking a page from the DL plan-by-ouja-board manual.

Refreshing - a new board metaphor to give the tired old dartboard a rest. I can't resist pointing out, though, that the correct spelling is "ouija".


User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7061 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

I think the word you are looking for is: risky.

but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so risky  Smile-quote



Roar, lion, roar
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7041 times:



Quoting StarAlliance38 (Reply 9):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

I think the word you are looking for is: risky.

Risky is CLT-BOG. Stupid is CLT-GIG.



a.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7006 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
Application of Delta Air Lines

Delta Air Lines, Inc. hereby applies for an allocation of seven frequencies for use on the Atlanta-Rio de Janeiro route, commencing December 18, 2009. Delta will ensure the highest and best public interest use of the requested frequencies by serving the largest and most important traffic point eligible for 2009 award service, Rio de Janeiro, from the world's largest airline hub, Atlanta.

Delta plans to use the requested frequencies to operate nonstop, year-round, service between Atlanta and Rio de Janeiro, effective December 18, 2009. Delta will utilize 215-seat Boeing 767-300ER aircraft, equipped with 34 BusinessElite and 181 economy class seats.

so they move the ones they have now? hmmmmm I'd bet ATL-GRU goes 2x daily if they get this.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

I agree

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):
If DL were smart, they would have gone for daily JFK-GIG. That would have not only crushed AA's application, but would also allow DL to reinstate JFK-EZE service in the summer. DL could fly JFK-GIG-EZE in the summer and separate them in the winter. Operating GIG-EZE in the winter would also be very interesting, since Brazil-Argentina traffic grows.

Maybe maybe not. DL is (IMHO and i assume lipe's) will try to bend the rules of the new rounds(aka no more flights to GRU) and take these rights and move them to GRU and again my bet is 2x daily from Atlanta. (maybe 13x weekly and make JFK-GRU daily again)



yep.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7003 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Only MAO is performing badly.

please provide the date you have to make statements about the performance of any of the new AA or DL routes.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6946 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
Maybe maybe not. DL is (IMHO and i assume lipe's) will try to bend the rules of the new rounds(aka no more flights to GRU) and take these rights and move them to GRU and again my bet is 2x daily from Atlanta. (maybe 13x weekly and make JFK-GRU daily again)

Just remember that I was the first to raise that question back when DL requested the frequencies for LAX-GRU five months ago:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4126132


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6740 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Alianza (Reply 3):
But perhaps not at NK's model of an LCC to gain market by price competition.

Also i was expecting that, but seems that the crises made them rethink that 2009 isn't a good moment to begin services to Brazil.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):
If DL were smart, they would have gone for daily JFK-GIG.

Agree 100%

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
Maybe maybe not. DL is (IMHO and i assume lipe's) will try to bend the rules of the new rounds(aka no more flights to GRU) and take these rights and move them to GRU and again my bet is 2x daily from Atlanta. (maybe 13x weekly and make JFK-GRU daily again)

Agree DeltaL1011man, also in my view, Delta will use the 4x weekly frequencies to make LAX-GRU daily and will introduce a tag GRU-GIG allowing JFK or LAX to goes to GIG.

About GRU-ATL to become 2x daily, only if they introduce another overnight flight as the daylight that departed today (both ways) for example, departed with less than 30% of seats occupied and with just a very few business seats sold.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Risky is CLT-BOG. Stupid is CLT-GIG.

i got surprised always with your kindly comments. Agree this is not the best moment to begin services, but you keep thinking that 400Km makes a difference concerning to Brazil and a single flight from an airline.
Stupid is flying 4x daily 767/777 service in a route with one plane leaving with just 1C 51Y and joining all passengers, may be they fill 80% of 2 planes. That's stupid.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6691 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Only MAO is performing badly. I just think it more has to with future forecasts than current performance. I am surprised to see AA avoid the opportunity to get into FOR or BSB, but at the same time, if they really want FOR in the future, they can serve it whenever they wish on a triangle with SSA or REC (maybe even do MIA-FOR-REC-MIA 4w and MIA-SSA-MIA 3w).

Only MAO ?

AA998 GRU-MIA 2C 45Y B763
AA930 GRU-MIA 1C 44Y B763
AA906 GRU-MIA 7F 13C 79Y B772
AA904 GIG-MIA 15C 56Y B763
AA2990 GIG-MIA 12C 82Y B763
AA950 GIG-GRU leg 6F 8C 63Y
AA950 GRU-JFK leg 10F 13C 100Y
AA980 REC-MIA leg 3C 76Y

I'm not surprised at all with AA avoiding FOR, BSB or even increasing CNF because at this time it's clear any market outside GRU and GIG lacks the power to atract connections in order to allow the flight to perform well year-round. As we can notice per today's flights (and has been this way during week days, except for Friday), demand isn't strong even for current markets. Lack of business activity ? Could be one of the reasons, but the complete absence of Y demand is something new and probably due to the economic downturn plus currency devaluation.
AA is even sending more 763's to GRU instead of 772 and for the first time in years, is spending in marketing (newspapers, radio) in Brazil to advertise special fares even in January.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6664 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

I wish I were...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6626 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

DL cancelled the following ATL-MAO operations for the next month:

Feb/03
Feb/04
Feb/09
Feb/10
Feb/12
Feb/16
Feb/17
Feb/19
Feb/23
Feb/24

So we can even say, next month ATL-MAO will run 4x weekly.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6569 times:

This is my first post on a.net. I've been reading the forums for several years now, though.

Anyways, US has filed an application with the DOT for daily PHL-CLT-GIG service beginning either June 1, 2009 or October 1, 2009. Proposed schedule is as follows:

Summer (N. Hemisphere):

US800 DLY 767 PHL 1845 CLT 2030
US800 DLY 767 CLT 2230 GIG 0900+1

US801 DLY 767 GIG 2105 CLT 0600+1
US801 DLY 320 CLT 0730 PHL 0904

Winter (N. Hemisphere):

US800 DLY 767 PHL 1845 CLT 2030
US800 DLY 767 CLT 2230 GIG 1100+1

US801 DLY 767 GIG 2305 CLT 0600+1
US801 DLY 320 CLT 0730 PHL 0904


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6534 times:



Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):
Anyways, US has filed an application with the DOT for daily PHL-CLT-GIG service beginning either June 1, 2009 or October 1, 2009. Proposed schedule is as follows:

Summer (N. Hemisphere):

US800 DLY 767 PHL 1845 CLT 2030
US800 DLY 767 CLT 2230 GIG 0900+1

US801 DLY 767 GIG 2105 CLT 0600+1
US801 DLY 320 CLT 0730 PHL 0904

Winter (N. Hemisphere):

US800 DLY 767 PHL 1845 CLT 2030
US800 DLY 767 CLT 2230 GIG 1100+1

US801 DLY 767 GIG 2305 CLT 0600+1
US801 DLY 320 CLT 0730 PHL 0904

Wow, now that's certainly unexpected. I guess that with that request things get a bit complicated for Delta and their ATL-GIG request.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

January 27, 2009

Application of US Airways for an Exemption and Frequency Allocation

US Airways, Inc. requests that the Department grant it an exemption permitting US Airways to engage in the scheduled foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail between Philadelphia, Pennsylvania/Charlotte, North Carolina and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. US Airways further requests that the Department award it seven combination frequencies - available in either June 2009 or October 2009 - and an associated designation for US Airways' use in operating daily year-round scheduled service, using Boeing 767-200 aircraft, between Charlotte and Rio de Janeiro (The proposed service will originate with a B-767 aircraft in Philadelphia, stop in Charlotte, and continue to Rio de Janeiro. The return flight will operate with A-320 equipment from Charlotte to Philadelphia).

US Airways will commence Charlotte Rio de Janeiro service by the latter of June 1, 2009, or upon its receipt of all necessary operating authority from the U.S. and Brazilian governments; but in no event later than October 1, 2009.

Counsel: US Airways, Howard Kass, 202-326-5153


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6516 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 19):
Wow, now that's certainly unexpected. I guess that with that request things get a bit complicated for Delta and their ATL-GIG request.

US is a new entrant and new hub. They're pretty much a sure thing, in spite of the fact that CLTGIG makes PHLPEK sound great.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6458 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):

please provide the date you have to make statements about the performance of any of the new AA or DL routes.

You mean the same kind of LF data that you have? The

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, but US Airways is the kind of airline that would do something so stupid.

I wish I were...



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):

Only MAO ?

AA998 GRU-MIA 2C 45Y B763
AA930 GRU-MIA 1C 44Y B763
AA906 GRU-MIA 7F 13C 79Y B772
AA904 GIG-MIA 15C 56Y B763
AA2990 GIG-MIA 12C 82Y B763
AA950 GIG-GRU leg 6F 8C 63Y
AA950 GRU-JFK leg 10F 13C 100Y
AA980 REC-MIA leg 3C 76Y

Lipe, you know very well you can't look at one flight to determine anything. AA's Northeast triangle is averaging in the high-60's. AA was expecting low-70's, so it's really not far off their expectations.

AA could always reduce it to a 75L if they wish, but I have heard that they are happy to continue using a widebody on the route. If the route starts performing with loads in the 50's, then maybe a 75L would be a good move.

I also think that AA will continue to look at FOR, but by using the existing frequencies they have and reducing either REC or SSA.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
US is a new entrant and new hub. They're pretty much a sure thing, in spite of the fact that CLTGIG makes PHLPEK sound great.

I don't think its as "sure" as in the past, but yes they're chances are surely good. Hopefully the DOT sees the stupidity in this application just as much as they saw it in CLT-BOG.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6415 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):
This is my first post on a.net. I've been reading the forums for several years now, though.

Anyways, US has filed an application with the DOT for daily PHL-CLT-GIG service beginning either June 1, 2009 or October 1, 2009. Proposed schedule is as follows:

First welcome to A.Net and thanks for sharing the news.
This is great ! Although i'm DL FF, i believe they made a mistake asking for a second ATL-GIG instead of JFK-GIG. Now US will probably got priority over DL. It's nice to see that US will try to develop what even UA doesn't give a try, the sole year-round *A service from USA to Rio de Janeiro.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
US is a new entrant and new hub. They're pretty much a sure thing, in spite of the fact that CLTGIG makes PHLPEK sound great

I should say CO and US have the best condition to get the frequencies. AA come after with a new service and DL will be the last with a second daily service that for sure has the focus to relocate a current service.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Lipe, you know very well you can't look at one flight to determine anything. AA's Northeast triangle is averaging in the high-60's. AA was expecting low-70's, so it's really not far off their expectations

Mark, i agree with you, just tried to show how loads are not so good for all routes, and it's not only AA, DL, UA and CO are in the same situation.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6407 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
I don't think its as "sure" as in the past, but yes they're chances are surely good. Hopefully the DOT sees the stupidity in this application just as much as they saw it in CLT-BOG.

This time around is different. DL's application is only for December and for a second daily flight. AA's application doesn't fill all frequencies.


25 LAXdude1023 : Sadly, I think it is. Its a new carrier in a new market even though its obviously a route that has absolutely zero local market and little potential
26 Deltal1011man : Not sure if they will make LAX-GRU daily. Maybe up to 4x weekly on Delta 3x on KE If the DOT does its job then no........if they don't do there job (
27 Cubsrule : There is a key difference, FWIW. US has the aircraft on property to run the route. That wasn't (and isn't) true of PHL-PEK. If they get CLT-GIG, I im
28 MAH4546 : AA's mistake was asking for only 3w JFK-GIG. If they asked for 7w, then I think the chances of them getting it would go up.
29 C010T3 : I concur. They would have gotten it. And AA has a great flexibility to be able to start services like DFW-GIG or even returning N/NE/CW/BHZ frequenci
30 LipeGIG : I believe AA wouldn't expect US to come with a request. Now i'm sure CO and US will come with a lot of comments like AA has available frequencies ava
31 Incitatus : If that is the idea, how is the DoT going to be weigh the merits of Delta's proposed routes against the other airlines'? If DL is just looking to rel
32 Incitatus : For March 2009 ATL-REC-FOR-ATL is going to 3 x week too. If I use WT's logic that triangular flights should count as half frequency, DL will be servi
33 LipeGIG : As mentioned by Laxdude1023, only DL is asking for a 2nd service while the others are a) New Player: US - Top Priority b) New Services: CO - IAH-GIG
34 FutureUScapt : Maybe yes, maybe no IMO, it had to do with the fact that there were much more deservant applications in the US-Colombia proceedings, like: JFK-BOG (2
35 FlyPNS1 : I tend to agree with your logic. Hopefully, if the DOT is smart, they'll establish back-up carriers. In the event, that US (or CO) doesn't use their
36 Flighty : That would be very logical.
37 WorldTraveler : gotta source for that quote? Lipe is right, there will be more reductions across the board. Brazil is not immune to reductions just because it is a r
38 OA412 : US's recent applications are a bit baffling. First, they have no experience in Asia (unless you count HP's PHX-HNL-NGO experiment) and rather than goi
39 FlyPNS1 : But there's no frequencies available to fly to GRU, so US has no choice but go for GIG. The same was true at NRT, no slots available.
40 C010T3 : I have to say. Arriving at CLT in the morning will be a breeze. I assume immigration will be empty. CLT will definately be the gateway for the smoothi
41 MAH4546 : If AA had applied for a new market like BSB, it and CO would have this in the bag. Airlines can still modify their applications, but I don't foresee a
42 DeltaL1011man : Is the next round for 14 weekly also? See IMHO I think Delta's plan was to get the 7x weekly for GIG and then in the next round go after JFK-GIG.
43 C010T3 : DL doesn't really need to go double daily on any route to the Southern Cone, they have larger aircraft for that. It's not like they can have differen
44 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : I would imagine an argument against DL from other applicants will be: "You now have 747-400s (some of which will be sitting idle this summer). If you
45 MAH4546 : I think Delta is smart enough to realize there is no market for three airlines on JFK-GIG. TAM flies it already, and so does AA; AA just wants to go
46 OA412 : I realize that I just think it's a strange way to enter an entirely new region.
47 USAirALB : I wonder if this flight will be upgraded to a 332
48 DeltaL1011man : If it last that long then what ever replaces the 762s will go on the route (which IIRC will be the 332s)
49 Cubsrule : Why would it? It's not going to need the additional range or capacity...
50 C010T3 : You can't call that dirty tag-on a real direct flight. That was a joint motion, very different. Why? Because they picked the second largest, but unde
51 OA412 : You're right that GIG is indeed Brazil's second largest market and that it is underserved but, like others have said, neither PHL nor CLT have more t
52 MAH4546 : Actually, it is a direct flight, since the definition of a direct flight includes a stop. But I can call AA's 4x weekly seasonal non-stop JFK-GIG ser
53 AwysBSB : TAM already provides satisfactory services between BSB and MIA via MAO. As a Brasiliense, what I currently miss here is TAM's partner United and a no
54 MAH4546 : DOT doesn't care. That would not have played into the analysis.
55 C010T3 : You didn't get it. I know and I said that it's a direct flight, but I also said that it's dirty, meaning I find it awful that passengers have to dise
56 OA412 : They didn't change the application due to its weakness. They changed it because of work rule issues they were having with the pilots. Essentially, th
57 Etops1 : It really amazes me the amount of US haters on these boards. You guys just can't be happy that usairways is trying to expand into new markets. Why is
58 MAH4546 : It was changed because of labour issues, as OA412 mentioned. Bottom line is that applications can be changed in the process; whether or not DOT looks
59 C010T3 : The change made it weak, not the other way around.
60 BA744PHX : Well do you suggest they wait for many many years before GRU and NRT open up for new entrants before entering those continents? Not very smart thing
61 FutureUScapt : Actually because these frequencies are available to virtually any city other than GRU, I think it shows that they intend to use the 7 unrestricted we
62 C010T3 : Yes, though I doubt UA would abandon GIG once the route established for many years. They would fight for additional frequencies in order to expand.
63 BA744PHX : When will the winners be announced?
64 Flighty : The change made it stronger. DFW is a poor China origin location. So is ATL. I predict Delta will be dropping ATL-China. Now they own a far better Ch
65 C010T3 : It made it weaker, since it revealed the poor planning process AA had undertaken. A carrier should have had all its internal issues resolved before a
66 LipeGIG : I don't have the PDEW, but I can say about DL ATL-GIG top 5 markets: New York, Orlando, Houston, Miami & Los Angeles. Yes, 14 frequencies for 2010. D
67 MAH4546 : It is not about frequency. I believe AA and TAM can each run one daily flight, at least during the peak period. I do not believe there is room for th
68 LAXdude1023 : Its apples and oranges bro. Texas has good O&D to China, Georgia does not. In a good economic climate, DFW/IAH-China would do very well (not in this
69 Usairalb : I think that the 762 is a great aircraft for the CLT route. I'm predicting US will have great success in SA. My only problem is 10 + hrs without PTV.
70 AF086 : Again: they cannot do that. Those frequencies cannot be used there. New frequencies US-GRU will only be allowed when the airport is expanded and that
71 BA744PHX : If US is awarded for June 1st what euro routes will they pull the B762 from?
72 Etops1 : ARN (stockholm) is being downgraded to a 757 for this summer. And i suppose that if we get the frequency another normal 767 dest will get a 757.
73 BA744PHX : Wasnt that a/c already placed for CLT-CDG?
74 Cubsrule : They also aren't bringing back the second (summer) PHL-CDG frequency... not sure what was operating that flight.
75 DeltaL1011man : I have to.... Before you post this I'd tell you to go to Delta.com and list to the Q40 report.........you will find out that DTW is a very week hub.
76 Cubsrule : Of course, the relative performance of the China flights has, at best, a circumstantial connection to the relative performance of the hubs. No one is
77 FutureUScapt : US has actually not operated the second PHL-CDG flight for several summers; instead they go double daily on PHL-FRA from May-Oct. This is likely to b
78 Cubsrule : When are the 332s coming? I know there's a thread, but I can't find it...
79 IliriBDL : Starting in May, I think there are either 5 or 6 that are coming throughout the year. About 20 or so A320s as well for the year.
80 Cubsrule : ...which makes this whole aircraft discussion pretty much a moot point if they get the October frequencies.
81 FutureUScapt : As IIiriBDL states, the first A332 arrives this spring. A total of 5 will be delivered in 2009; the delivery breakdown by quarter is as follows: 2 -
82 IliriBDL : So two will immediately be used on the TLV route. I saw on the schedule that we're going to use A330s for both flights to FRA during the summer season
83 Incitatus : I´ve read all the applications and I concluded that DL is applying for DTW-GRU, even though that is not what the application says
84 Flighty : This a very long route for the 757, one of the very few over 4,000 mi statute. 4,009 mi.
85 DeltaL1011man : I would hope not........it would be a huged waste of GRU flights.
86 Cubsrule : Honestly, in a round with GRU frequencies available, it would be a VERY compelling application, and it just might work. GRU is the only South America
87 LipeGIG : Considering the status of auto makers, i would say it's a complete waste of frequencies. Also, DL will have the worst chance to get frequencies.
88 DeltaL1011man : Lipe once again me and you are on the same page. Read above. Its not that I don't think it will work 2-3-4 years from now........right not with the B
89 Cubsrule : ...and they aren't applying for it right now. If you reread what I said, I think you'll see that we're on the same page.
90 DeltaL1011man : I got you now. I thought you meant with the 7x frequencies they would get if they get the new GIG flights.
91 OA412 : There's nothing in the application that states they will use the freed frequencies to fly DTW-GRU. He is only positing that this is what DL will do.
92 LipeGIG : I agree with you. Please note i just reply concerning to the idea of flying DTW-GRU with the current ATL-GIG unrestricted frequencies. In my view, if
93 OA412 : Oh no I understand. I think that it can possibly be a viable route in the future but, as you mentioned, not during the current crisis. I agree with y
94 Incitatus : Any flight to Brazil from any city beyond MIA/MCO/NYC has to rely on a very large share of connections. DTW has them. So even if the situation of For
95 OA412 : No one has disputed that and this thread is full of speculation regarding where the freed-up frequencies will be used. And for the record, it was cle
96 LipeGIG : DTW is on a location that does not provide the best chance for quick connections and represents a lot of backtrack for the main markets. Demand DTW-B
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