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Why Aren't BA Or VS At SXM?  
User currently offlinePoadrim From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6840 times:

Like the topic theme says, why not? AFAIK only AF and KL fly to SXM from Europe?


Good judgment comes from experience. Good experience comes from someone else's bad judgment.
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWouwout From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6840 times:

now let's see, the island is part French and part Dutch... mmmmmm, I wonder why only these airlines fly to this small island  Smile

User currently offlineHawaii12 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6822 times:

prolly because France and The Netherlands have a vested interested to serve the island since it is part of France and The Nether Antilles.. also why it is spelled Saint Martin and Sint Maarten.

User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6804 times:



Quoting Poadrim (Thread starter):

Corsair also has flights to SXM. ORY-SXM with a 747.



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlinePoadrim From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6781 times:



Quoting Wouwout (Reply 1):
now let's see, the island is part French and part Dutch... mmmmmm, I wonder why only these airlines fly to this small island Smile

Humm, didn't quite understood that statement. Why should that be a problem? BA have their departures from England to both France and Netherlands?  Confused

For VS part they flies to Barbados, so that might be it?

Quoting Hawaii12 (Reply 2):
also why it is spelled Saint Martin and Sint Maarten.

Good one! Wish an answer as well!  blockhead 



Good judgment comes from experience. Good experience comes from someone else's bad judgment.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24996 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6735 times:
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The British prefer the "British" Caribbean - the islands that were once British colonies. Barbados, yes, but also Jamaica and Antigua and the other smaller islands:

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/british-islands.htm

The French prefer the French islands (French West Indies) and the Dutch prefer the Dutch Caribbean.

St. Martin is tiny - forty square miles in total - yet British airlines don't fly to the larger islands of Martinique or Guadeloupe.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHawaii12 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6710 times:

other european carriers could fly to sxm but they do not feel the demand is sufficient enough to warrant a non stop from their home airports. nor do they feel it wise to attempt to compete with KLM and AF who already have been serving the route for many years.
you kind of answered your own question by bringing up BA and Barbados....

Barbados --> English colony until 1961.. maintains ties to the British monarchy represented by the Governor General
Sint Maarten --> part of Nether Antilles
Saint Martin --> part of France


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6712 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
The British prefer the "British" Caribbean - the islands that were once British colonies. Barbados, yes, but also Jamaica and Antigua and the other smaller islands:

That is correct; BA has an impressive network in the Caribbean. BA currently serves twelve islands in the Caribbean: ANU, BDA, BGI, GCM, GND, KIN, NAS, PLS, POS, SKB, TAB, and UVF.


User currently offlinePoadrim From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6683 times:

Ah, okey. Thanks for the answers!  conehead 


Good judgment comes from experience. Good experience comes from someone else's bad judgment.
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3700 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6675 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
BA currently serves twelve islands in the Caribbean: ANU, BDA, BGI, GCM, GND, KIN, NAS, PLS, POS, SKB, TAB, and UVF.

Since when has Bermuda been considered part of the Caribbean?  laughing 



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User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17050 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6680 times:



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
That is correct; BA has an impressive network in the Caribbean. BA currently serves twelve islands in the Caribbean: ANU, BDA, BGI, GCM, GND, KIN, NAS, PLS, POS, SKB, TAB, and UVF

Arent does mostly served from LGW, if not all of them?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1810 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6657 times:



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):

Corsair also has flights to SXM. ORY-SXM with a 747.

And if i remember correctly, they are the only airline to fly the 747 there now. KL and AF once did but i think they now use the 777.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6635 times:



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Since when has Bermuda been considered part of the Caribbean?

It's off the Mid-Atlantic of course, but one can say that neither PLS and NAS are part of the Caribbean either. Also, BDA and its people identify more with the Caribbean and still maintain very close ties with the West Indies.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
Arent does mostly served from LGW, if not all of them?

All are served from LGW, with the exception of LHR-NAS-GCM and LHR-NAS-PLS.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17050 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6626 times:



Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 11):
KL and AF once did but i think they now use the 777.

I think that KLM still uses the 747 and AF uses the A340



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6613 times:



Quoting Hawaii12 (Reply 6):
Sint Maarten --> part of Nether Antilles

I'm not too sure what the Nether Antilles are, but St Maarten is part of the Netherlands Antilles or the Dutch Antilles.

Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 11):
KL and AF once did but i think they now use the 777.

KLM uses the MD-11 twice weekly, AF uses the A340-300 daily



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8748 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6615 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
I think that KLM still uses the 747 and AF uses the A340

Yep, AF uses the A340 and KL uses the 747 during the peak travel season, then it usually reverts to the MD-11 during the summer.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6597 times:



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
BA currently serves twelve islands in the Caribbean: ANU, BDA, BGI, GCM, GND, KIN, NAS, PLS, POS, SKB, TAB, and UVF.

Since when has Bermuda been considered part of the Caribbean?

Geographically, NAS and the rest of the Bahamas aren't in the Caribbean either.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17050 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Does anyone know why BA doesnt serve the Caribbean from LHR and only from LGW?? One thing is for sure that LHR is so crowded, but is it also because BA doesnt get so much connecting PAX to their Caribbean flights (i.e most people origin from the U.K)?


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6558 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
Does anyone know why BA doesnt serve the Caribbean from LHR and only from LGW?? One thing is for sure that LHR is so crowded, but is it also because BA doesnt get so much connecting PAX to their Caribbean flights (i.e most people origin from the U.K)?

Because the majority of passengers on BA's Caribbean services are UK or European originating and can be adequately served by BA's LGW network. They don't need connections from long-haul places like JNB, NRT, or SYD.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6551 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
Does anyone know why BA doesnt serve the Caribbean from LHR and only from LGW?? One thing is for sure that LHR is so crowded, but is it also because BA doesnt get so much connecting PAX to their Caribbean flights (i.e most people origin from the U.K)?

I'd guess a mixture of capacity, inertia, and that the rest of the generally lower yielding (with some probable exceptions like BGI) bucket and spade routes are at LGW as well. VS do the same.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17050 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6539 times:



Quoting LH423 (Reply 18):
Because the majority of passengers on BA's Caribbean services are UK or European originating and can be adequately served by BA's LGW network. They don't need connections from long-haul places like JNB, NRT, or SYD.

But BA doesnt have that large network out of LGW to the rest of Europe. In fact they mostly serve other leisure destinations.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3225 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

BA's Caribbean services are at LGW because virtually all passengers originate from the UK itself - there are few connecting passengers. BA has operated its network in this way since the 1980s. The NAS, GCM and PLS routes fly from LHR only because the flights are operated on the 767-300 and those machines are exclusively based at LHR. The high-density 777s operate the rest of the Caribbean network apart from BGI which sees a 4-class 777. Incidentally BA does not consider BDA to be a Caribbean destination but sociologically and culturally it is a part of the Greater Caribbean region even if it is geographically remote.

SXM is not a major destination for British travellers (apart from plane spotters!) so there are no direct flights there from the UK. FDF and PTP are parts of France and traffic to them tends to be VFR and French tourists - they are not major destinations for tourists from elsewhere in Europe.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6369 times:



Quoting Poadrim (Reply 4):
Humm, didn't quite understood that statement. Why should that be a problem? BA have their departures from England to both France and Netherlands?

Quite surprised that with 21 replies so far the word "language" has not yet appeared in any of them. SXM like other Caribbean islands is above all a holiday destination. Although each of the Caribbean holiday islands has its own character and unique selling points they are very similar in lots of characteristics. But one area where they differ is language. And when relaxing on holiday most (but not all) British, Dutch and French, when other things are more or less equal, will choose a destination where English, Dutch and French are, respectively, the spoken languages.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
Does anyone know why BA doesnt serve the Caribbean from LHR and only from LGW?? One thing is for sure that LHR is so crowded, but is it also because BA doesnt get so much connecting PAX to their Caribbean flights (i.e most people origin from the U.K)?

Slot availability. And while their is no BA interconnectivity from other long haul destinations (like Asia, Africa and the Middle East) at LGW many major European cities do have flights to LGW. But I suspect that you are correct is suggesting that compared to their other long haul flights the passengers on the BA Caribbean flights are more predominantly British. And there is a flow of traffic in the other direction with West Indians visiting relatives who have emigrated to the UK.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6325 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
British, Dutch and French, when other things are more or less equal, will choose a destination where English, Dutch and French are, respectively, the spoken languages.

In my experience that's much truer for the British and French than the Dutch, most of whom speak English very well. That's much less the case (although improving) in France. And the British have never been known for their foreign language skills.  Smile


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6264 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
British, Dutch and French, when other things are more or less equal, will choose a destination where English, Dutch and French are, respectively, the spoken languages.

In my experience that's much truer for the British and French than the Dutch, most of whom speak English very well. That's much less the case (although improving) in France. And the British have never been known for their foreign language skills.

I do not disagree with anything here. But it does not impact my thought that

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
And when relaxing on holiday most (but not all) British, Dutch and French, when other things are more or less equal, will choose a destination where English, Dutch and French are, respectively, the spoken languages.

If this were not the case I would expect KL to serve at least one of these English language Caribbean Island destinations which are all served by BA. But as far as I know they do not. These destinations are:

ANU; BGI; KIN; POS; SKB; TAB; UVF.

And I do not think that AF flies to any of them either. As I said if you want a relaxing beach holiday (however good a linguist you may be) why choose one where your native language is not spoken if you can choose one where it is? But if you really want to practice your English while you have a beach holiday. . . Well you can always fly into London and connect to a BA Caribbean flight.  Wink


25 Viscount724 : The Dutch seem to be more adventuresome travellers, much like the Germans, Swiss and Scandinavians, who of course have no tropical overseas territori
26 Carduelis : Just for the sake of accuracy - Barbados became independent on 30 November 1966.
27 LH423 : They serve the major European capitals and rather extensively around the UK, their primary market. Plain and simple, there isn't the need for LHR's c
28 JRadier : KLM has operated the MD-11 exclusively to the Caribbean for several years now. The only time you might see a KL 747 in SXM is during irregularities (
29 Post contains links and images FlySSC : Here is a map of the Island : As you can see, "the famous" SXM airport is located in the Dutch part, in the South. France and the Netherland have a co
30 Baexecutive : Flights to BDA offer First also!
31 Kiwiandrew : as has already been pointed out BDA is not in the Caribbean
32 Humberside : BA serve very few European capitals from LGW - and the same goes for non-Capital important cities. There is no Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Duss
33 LHR27C : When the 3rd runway opens and the LHR slot situation changes dramatically, it will be interesting to see whether BA decide to move some leisure route
34 Humberside : Doesn't the 3rd runway plan include a Terminal 6?
35 LHR27C : Yes, but BA are trying to get all their services under one roof (although they will still have a presence in T3, but T5-T3 is much closer and easier
36 Airbazar : As a general rule Europeans prefere their former colonies for vacationing. The French are notorious for traveling primarily to French speaking destin
37 SCL767 : The ABC islands actually receive more South American tourists, as compared to Dutch tourists.
38 Doona : Or many former colonies to speak of. Sure Germany had territories in Africa, but they were all taken away long before any de-colonization took place.
39 Readytotaxi : Indeed, when I went to Aruba a couple of years back on a KLM MD11 via AMS the immigration staff were surprised to see a UK passport, but very charmin
40 Trintocan : SXM is indeed on the Dutch side of St. Maarten. The French side, St. Martin, does have a small airport called Grand Case which sees flights from PTP o
41 Post contains images FlySSC : Grande Case (SFG) is served by Air Caraïbes from/to PTP with ATR72 (flight TX302/TX303). SGF is also served by Air Guyane, with ATR42 (flights 3S 36
42 SCL767 : SFG is also served by Saint Barth Commuter, which operates between SBH, SXM, and SFG.
43 TIA : St. Maarten is not part of the Netherlands. Tradition and historical ties are a much bigger reason than language. After all, English (and not Dutch)
44 Airbazar : Today that is indeed the case, especially from Venezuela, along with a lot of Americans. But it wasn't always like that.
45 SCL767 : Also from Colombia, Ecuador, and as of recent Panama, with the introduction of CM's new service to AUA. CUR receives the most visitors from AMS with
46 Viscount724 : And, as you probably know, St.Croix (and possibly one or two other islands) in what is now the U.S.Virgin Islands was a Danish colony from 1733 (when
47 Caribbean484 : 1) Barbados got independence from the British in 30 November 1966 but has the constitutional monarchy to the Birtish. Saint Maarten- Netherlands Anti
48 Severnaya : Sint Maarten is an "island area", a component of the Netherlands Antilles comparable to a municipality. The Netherlands Antilles are part of the King
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