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Fate Of Qantas 747-300's  
User currently offlineKiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12690 times:

Can anyone tell us if the QF 743's that have been sent to Marana, are stored as aircraft for sale, or aircraft for scrapping?

Thanks

KiwiTEAL

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12658 times:
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My assumption would be for scrapping , there are already many -400s available on the second hand market so I can't imagine too many people are going to be interested in 22-25 year old 300s with the additional crewing cost of a F/E and lower fuel efficiency than a -400


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineKiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12607 times:

Thanks, just wondered.

I would have thought that with the QF maintenance of the past, this might might make the aircraft more viable for perhaps a freighter company that is replacing 742's?

I got the impression that Qantas recently did upgrades of some of the 743's - or am I mistaken?

KiwiTEAL


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12576 times:
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Quoting KiwiTEAL (Reply 2):
I would have thought that with the QF maintenance

dont get me wrong , despite recent media hysteria I have great respect for QF and their maintenance teams , I would say without hesitation that I would expect these to be the best condition -300s around , but that still doesnt ( IMHO ) make them attractive .

If a freight company were planning to retire -200Fs I cant imagine that they would want to replace them with -300s . I wonder how much it would cost to convert these a/c to freighters , if I were going to invest that sort of money I would like to be sure that I would earn it back , with the youngest QF -300 being around 22 years old , I would be concerned about how many years of use I could expect to get from them and whether I would recover that investment .

Also , as I indicated before ( though I could be wrong ) I think the need for flight engineers would be the final nail in the coffin for these birds , why go for an aircraft with additional crewing costs ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

Reportedly QFs 743s will be broken up soon. Its interesting that most of QFs old airplanes are broken up for spares rather fast. The 742s and SPs also survived their decomissioning for just a few weeks. Unlike NWA the Australian airline obviously doesnt like images of their jets standing around in the desert. Only some of the 762s stayed longer. They also always remove titles and logos before they are sent to the US.

Quoting KiwiTEAL (Reply 2):
I would have thought that with the QF maintenance of the past, this might might make the aircraft more viable for perhaps a freighter company that is replacing 742's?

Since the 747-400 conversion program no 747 Classics have been converted, and I doubt that one more will ever be.

It would be interesting to know how many hours/cycles QFs 743s have accumulated. I guess they are beyond 100.000 hours.


User currently offlineVhqpa From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1496 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12376 times:

I have heard that Frame 23688 otherwise known as VH-EBX has been sold to Evergreen cant confirm if it is correct though.


For those that are interested From another website these 743's have around 85,000-90,000 hours and around 10,000-15,000 cycles. Considering the 742's retired earlier in the decade had around 20,000 these aircraft still have quite a bit of life in them although it's more of a question of if anyone going to be interested in buying one.



Vhq



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7542 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12350 times:

I know QF retired one to RME last year or the year before. Don't know the fate of it,though.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12204 times:



Quoting Vhqpa (Reply 5):
For those that are interested From another website these 743's have around 85,000-90,000 hours and around 10,000-15,000 cycles. Considering the 742's retired earlier in the decade had around 20,000 these aircraft still have quite a bit of life in them although it's more of a question of if anyone going to be interested in buying one.

Interesting. That are indeed relatively low figures for 747s to be retired, less than QFs 742s which were of the same age, but if I remember right had around 100.000 hours (which is about the average figure of a 747) when wfu some years ago.

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 6):
I know QF retired one to RME last year or the year before. Don't know the fate of it,though.

That was -EBW. Reportedly sold for scrap.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7542 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12070 times:

Maybe a couple will be used by some 3rd-world arline for the Haaj,but probably not.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7542 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11828 times:



Quoting Na (Reply 4):
Since the 747-400 conversion program no 747 Classics have been converted, and I doubt that one more will ever be.

I read that Israeli Aircraft converted their last -200 for NW in '06,I beleive. And no more classics were going to be converted. Though I don't know what the diff is between converting a -200 vs a -400. Also,I highly doubt you could 'add' an opening nose .



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10026 times:

I heard that one of them was sold to an outfit called "Maxair" or something like that.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9068 times:

The other problem with the 743 is that its basically a 742 but heavier thanks to the stetched upper deck. So what does that mean? Less cargo for an aircraft the same age can be uplifted.



Remember, that while these 743s were being produced some airlines were still buying 742... largely GE powered ones. Does anybody have the max takeoff figures? Where any of the old KLM 200SUD combi's converted (since most of the work was already done?)


User currently offlineFlyingClrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8742 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
The other problem with the 743 is that its basically a 742 but heavier thanks to the stetched upper deck. So what does that mean? Less cargo for an aircraft the same age can be uplifted.

Didn't KLM let Northwest use it's retired 743's for parts for NW 742F's?


User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8615 times:

It would make a helluva private jet, especially if it were cheap enough to acquire. Since these are flown so rarely, gas mileage doesn't really matter.

Might be cheaper than a brand-spanking-new Gulfstream, and you can pay for the gas/maintenance from the interest you save on that G-550...  Smile


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7542 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8053 times:



Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 12):
Didn't KLM let Northwest use it's retired 743's for parts for NW 742F's?

I think it was Swiss.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7959 times:



Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 13):
It would make a helluva private jet, especially if it were cheap enough to acquire. Since these are flown so rarely, gas mileage doesn't really matter.

You're not taking into account the cost of maintenance these birds would need. If they need a D check, that'll run into the millions.



PHX based
User currently offline4everVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

I remember reading an article in Aviation Week about converting Boeing 747-300/400 into Cargo versions that although heavier, the 747-300/400 offer a better fuel economy due to less drag caused by the stretched upper deck.

Atlas purchased old RG 747 300 (PP VNI) and converted it to a cargo machine. Since then, KLM has been retiring older 747 300s and 400s and transforming some of them into cargo birds. Singapore is following the trend along with Asiana and Korean Air. In fact, most of Asiana's 747s have been converted to cargo.


User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

VH-EBT is the one that is at RME, I believe it was purchased by Transaero...not -EBW.

Best thing that could happen to those QF743's is scrap...their lack of reliability in recent years became a joke amoungst aviation enthusiasts in Oz.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7558 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 15):
You're not taking into account the cost of maintenance these birds would need. If they need a D check, that'll run into the millions.

And the 3 man cockpit…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

if there is little demand they will be very VERY cheap.

If any life left in them before big checks, some airline will posisbly pick them up for a song, maybe a low cost Asian outfit ?

Hajj ? Yep, but it's only for a few weeks a year in each direction isn't it ?

F/E's like pilots will be dime a dozen shortly, so crew costs not really an issue.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7361 times:
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Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 19):
F/E's like pilots will be dime a dozen shortly

how many flight engineers with current qualifications are actually available these days?

the F/E has been on their way out of aviation for more than 20 years so wouldnt the ones that are left be likely to be retired or near retirement ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7286 times:

Speaking of 747-300s, what ever happened to Thai Airways 747-300s?
I flew on theirs in their last week in service in 1st. class in March of 2007.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

I believe they were scrapped quietly Superfly at one of those airfields in California.

Air India's B743 VT-EPX which already has the SCD was recently flown to Kemble for scrap also.

TG and AI's B743 both featured the newer B747-400 wing design and with GE engines you'd of thought these would of found buyers in the second-hand market....some built after the first -400's also.

Apart from the RR engines on the QF B743's I think there is very little hope for them.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7217 times:



Quoting QF744ER (Reply 22):
I believe they were scrapped quietly Superfly at one of those airfields in California.

What a shame.  Sad
What a comfortable plane to fly on.
I just LOVED those velor old style seats they had in 1st.

Quoting QF744ER (Reply 22):
TG and AI's B743 both featured the newer B747-400 wing design and with GE engines

Really?
These look like the old wing.
Thai Airways 747-300

I have more pics in this trip report:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.../trip_reports/read.main/96932/1/#1


Thanks for the info QF744ER.  Cool



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7137 times:

Considering how old these are and nothing more then a -200 with larger upper deck, this birds have to be old and as mentioned, with airlines parking some -400 already, think the cost vs fuel advantage would have to outweigh one another.

25 RB211 : I hate to see them go. Nalanji Dreaming has always been my favorite 300 series ac. Hopefully they'll do an A380 in those colors.
26 Superfly : God I hope not! The Wunala and Nalanji has the be the worst thing ever done to an aircraft. Same for that horrific theme 747-300 that South Africa us
27 KingAir200 : It was Swissair. The airplane was actually registered to NWA at one time too.
28 Post contains images Viscount724 : They didn't have the 747-400 wing but the last 16 747-200s built (all freighters I believe) and the last 8 -300s built had the 744's redesigned wing-
29 LimaNiner : Well, sure, but if a brand new G-550 costs $45m - $50m+, and you can pick this baby up for $15m, and spend another $5m on the D-Check, my math says y
30 United_Fan : Maybe in a perfect world....but you can put a G550 in places a 747 would never fit. That's what people that have private planes like . Not to mention
31 ArabAirX : I'm surprised Qantas didnt elect to donate one of its classic 743's to a museum.
32 Vhqpa : Well there is the Qantas Founders Outback Museum at LRE but I doubt they'd be interested in wasting precious space on a second 747 which less histori
33 Na : They have a 742 there, so why add an airplane which will be 90% identical. I guess, that in about 10 years time a 744 will be added to that museum, o
34 RB211 : Depends on perspective. .They beat the bland corporate schemes that alot of airlines are gravitating towards. They helped bring back aircraft persona
35 Superfly : I hate the corporate (white fuselage/painted tail) just as much as you do. The Wunala and Nalanji have personality in a 'short school bus' way. Those
36 Na : You just quoted the 3 most beautiful special schemes that ever flew! Wunala is fantastic, still great after 14 years, and the SAA Olympic jet was a g
37 Superfly : I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That is the kindest thing I can say in regards to that. Honestly I don't like any theme planes but the
38 Na : And I guess you´d like to drive a Packard with sidewheels... Sure, but there is good and bad taste. And as a designer bad taste is not my thing...
39 Superfly : Absolutely! I suggest you look up what Packards were all about when they were in production. The Packard was a very bad example to get your point acr
40 Zkpilot : How can you not like the 'Vomit Comet'?
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