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SQ A380 - Current Load Factors  
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18108 times:
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A question out of curiosity...

My wife and I have just been checking Mother-in-Law and significant other onto SQ317 (LHR-SIN) for the flight on Monday (2nd Feb).

As far as I could see, there were only 19 Economy class seats left, out of 399.

Given the current economic climate, I found this a bit surprising.
Are SQ's A380 Load factors still holding up?
Or is this a "Monday Morning" phenomenon?  Smile

Rgds

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2802 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18081 times:

I think SQ's load factors are still holding up, above 90% at least.

User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18056 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Thread starter):
Or is this a "Monday Morning" phenomenon?

I'm flying SQ321 Tue night (Feb 03). Coach is full, but there are some seats open in first and biz.

Hoping for an op-up  crossfingers 



A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR
User currently onlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2714 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18026 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Thread starter):
My wife and I have just been checking Mother-in-Law and significant other onto SQ317

You lucky thing, I wish I could do the same.  devil 

Quoting Astuteman (Thread starter):
As far as I could see, there were only 19 Economy class seats left, out of 399. Given the current economic climate, I found this a bit surprising.

Maybe the economy class is even more crowded BECAUSE of the current economic climate when people are kindly asked or forced to fly Economy instead of Business.


User currently offlineTravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 938 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17925 times:

QANTAS recently stated that their A380 flights have relatively high load factors when compared with their B744 flights.

Maybe these birds are a bit of a God send in this economic down turn.


User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17899 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 1):
I think SQ's load factors are still holding up, above 90% at least.

Probably only in coach, and probably only because the SIN-LHR route received a frequency cut. Passenger load factors system wide is certainly not anywhere near 90%, having just slipped below 80% to reach 79.9% in December 2008, which is -4.4% compared to a year ago.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17771 times:



Quoting Elite (Reply 1):
I think SQ's load factors are still holding up, above 90% at least.

Not in Suites or Business classes. Don't be surprised to see a 777-300ER replace SQ's last remaining JumboJet service to LHR.

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 5):
Passenger load factors system wide is certainly not anywhere near 90%, having just slipped below 80% to reach 79.9% in December 2008, which is -4.4% compared to a year ago.

I don't think SQ's lower load factors have been caused by upgauging to the WhaleJet; I think that is just due to the overall economic climate.


User currently onlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3595 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17718 times:

Well, look at it this way: Many people travel in coach maybe once in a few years. Would you fly the 747 or the A380 if you had the chance? I would choose the A380, simply because it is new...

User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 17401 times:
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Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
I wish I could do the same

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 5):
Passenger load factors system wide is certainly not anywhere near 90%, having just slipped below 80% to reach 79.9% in December 2008, which is -4.4% compared to a year ago.

Thanks for that information.
Must admit I was expecting to see a load around this figure.
That said, "only" 80% system wide sounds like pretty good loads, especially now.
And "only" 4.4% reduction sounds a lot better than I would have expected.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Not in Suites or Business classes

Do we know the L/F's in these classes?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
I don't think SQ's lower load factors have been caused by upgauging to the WhaleJet; I think that is just due to the overall economic climate.

I don't think Huaiwei did either, or implied as much.
Didn't really see the need for this comment....
No matter.

If anything, the figures we see on here seem to suggest that, for now at least, the A380's are, if anything, a positive influence on load factors ...

Rgds


User currently offlineIainbhx From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 17366 times:

When I was on an SQ 380 from SYD-SIN at the start if January, economy was packed, but Business was only about 50% full. I don't know about the Suites. It's certainly worth paying extra for the 380 business class over the 744. Although the 744 journey was very good as well. However going straight from SYD-SIN on the 380 in Business to the Lufthansa 747 SIN-FRA was a bit of a comedown. It felt like Economy Plus  Smile .


iainbhx
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 17059 times:

I flew SQ318 from SIN to LHR yesterday (30th).

Economy class was only about half full - I had four seats to myself in the rear upper deck section.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16129 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 8):
That said, "only" 80% system wide sounds like pretty good loads, especially now.

Pretty good?!

I believe that about 80% is the ideal load factor. You don't want to push too many away during peak season and you don't want to be too empty during low season. The compromise between the two is around 80% for most carriers.


User currently offlineNitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13227 times:



Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 7):
Well, look at it this way: Many people travel in coach maybe once in a few years. Would you fly the 747 or the A380 if you had the chance? I would choose the A380, simply because it is new...

If I had only one chance to fly on either aircraft (and have not as of yet) I'm not sure if
I could decide. If it could be an 747SP, however, I would go with the SP. Simply because its old  Wink Kidding aside, I do agree with your point about A380 aircraft having more appeal over 747 for the majority of people.



En Buyuk Turkiye, Baska Buyuk Yok!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11779 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 8):
Didn't really see the need for this comment....

You don't see how increasing capacity can lead to reduced load factors?   

Quoting Nitepilot79 (Reply 12):
I do agree with your point about A380 aircraft having more appeal over 747 for the majority of people.

My sister is in sales, goes scuba diving all around the world, flies about 200K miles per year for business and pleasure, and has been doing so for 15+ years. She can't tell a 737 from a 747, has never considered aircraft type in planning any trip, and thinks anyone who would consider aircraft type in planning a trip is daft. I think she's in the majority.

[Edited 2009-01-31 21:12:25]

User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11727 times:

According to my contacts at LHR the SQ A380 flights are going out pretty much full up.

Being a new aircraft, and because of its repuatation of being a little more extravagant, there must be a lot of people deliberately planning their trips around it. I know I would.

I'm waiting for it to fly to Japan before I make my next trip there.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11551 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 14):
I'm waiting for it to fly to Japan before I make my next trip there.

You don't have long to wait. SQ have had daily WhaleJet service SIN-NRT since about last summer.


User currently offlineChinook747 From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11394 times:



Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 7):
Well, look at it this way: Many people travel in coach maybe once in a few years. Would you fly the 747 or the A380 if you had the chance? I would choose the A380, simply because it is new...

exactly, I am flying to Australia in May and deliberately planned my trip so that I could fly the A380


User currently offlineFlyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 582 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11359 times:



Quoting Nitepilot79 (Reply 12):
If I had only one chance to fly on either aircraft (and have not as of yet) I'm not sure if
I could decide. If it could be an 747SP, however, I would go with the SP. Simply because its old Kidding aside, I do agree with your point about A380 aircraft having more appeal over 747 for the majority of people

This will probably last the next 3-5 years until enough A380s are around daily.

For the 200k sister mentioned above it doesn't matter, but if 1nce a year or even less you take a flight direction where you can choose between A380 and 747 there will be many to be on the A380 and for many it will be the first time. They may all know the 747 already.
Very natural

Regards
Flyglobal


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10799 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
You don't see how increasing capacity can lead to reduced load factors?

I do, and you are correct to point that out.
I didn't think the quoted poster had made such an inference, is all.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
She can't tell a 737 from a 747, has never considered aircraft type

Many indeed, most passengers may well fall into this category, but a lot don't, and their choices matter.

Quoting Flyglobal (Reply 17):
but if 1nce a year or even less you take a flight direction where you can choose between A380 and 747

If even only 2%-3% of passengers are in a position to, and do, make an informed choice, this could have a significant impact on load factors.

I must admit that this wasn't the purpose of the OP.
I was just amazed that, given the climate, this particular flight had an L/F of 95%+

Quoting Babybus (Reply 14):
According to my contacts at LHR the SQ A380 flights are going out pretty much full up.

And it would seem that its not the only one (recognising that many more are probably not full)

Rgds


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8375 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8622 times:



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
My sister is in sales, goes scuba diving all around the world, flies about 200K miles per year for business and pleasure, and has been doing so for 15+ years. She can't tell a 737 from a 747, has never considered aircraft type in planning any trip, and thinks anyone who would consider aircraft type in planning a trip is daft. I think she's in the majority.

True however the majority of passengers also don't fly long haul so their ability to distinguish between a 737 and a 747 is irrelevant. Those who do fly long haul regularly, the business fliers who criscross the globe monthly or even weekly, they sure as heck know the difference and their choices matter. It's also a mistake to assume that every business passenger flies in J or F class.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8502 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 19):
True however the majority of passengers also don't fly long haul so their ability to distinguish between a 737 and a 747 is irrelevant. Those who do fly long haul regularly, the business fliers who criscross the globe monthly or even weekly, they sure as heck know the difference and their choices matter.

Sorry, I have to disagree. A.netters are not representative of the typical business traveler. I believe my sister is much more representative of the typical business traveler than we are. She flies within Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas, and Oceania. I've tried asking her questions like:
- Did the aircraft have two engines or four?
- Were there two aisles or just one?
- Was there an upstairs?
I get answers like: "No idea, but the seats were blue."

Her husband is a software engineering manager for a contractor to both Airbus and Boeing. He flies back and forth between Europe and the States a lot. He can always tell me how many aisles there were, but not which model or even which manufacturer. He thinks I'm odd that I pay attention to such things. He cares about the food and the IFE, which gives him a preference of airlines, but not of aircraft types. (Yes, I know that some airlines have different IFE on different aircraft.)


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8362 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
Sorry, I have to disagree. A.netters are not representative of the typical business traveler



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 18):
If even only 2%-3% of passengers are in a position to, and do, make an informed choice, this could have a significant impact on load factors.

Surely you won't disagree that a small percentage of travellers DO know the difference, and some do make a choice?  scratchchin 

Rgds


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8179 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 21):
Surely you won't disagree that a small percentage of travellers DO know the difference, and some do make a choice?

Of course, I'm one of them, though I only choose based on aircraft type when the schedules are equally convenient and the prices are similar (I may pay more for a different seat type or IFE system, but not for a different aircraft type).


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8026 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 18):
If even only 2%-3% of passengers are in a position to, and do, make an informed choice, this could have a significant impact on load factors.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Not in Suites or Business classes. Don't be surprised to see a 777-300ER replace SQ's last remaining JumboJet service to LHR.

So the issue that is most pertinent is whether the A380 service is actually generating more aggregate demand or whether it is just canibalising other daily services on the same route not flown by the A380.

I asked this earlier about the SIN-SYD route but no one seemed to really know.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7962 times:



Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 24):
So the issue that is most pertinent is whether the A380 service is actually generating more aggregate demand or whether it is just canibalising other daily services on the same route not flown by the A380.

I don't believe it's doing either to any statistically significant extent.


25 Astuteman : If the context is one of passenger preference, it would imply that the A380 service is currently cannibalising other services. I'm not sure how the i
26 Braybuddy : Talking to a Singapore check-in girl at Sydney last September, she said that the A380 was "always full". For sure. I travel with a mate who knows a li
27 TravellerPlus : My experience in the corporate travel industry was that most frequent travellers had some sort of knowledge of aircraft types and it could influence a
28 Zvezda : This illustrates my point. It's really the seats and IFE that he cared about, not the aircraft type per se. SQ have essentially the same IFE on their
29 Astuteman : Although to some extent it doesn't, as Braybuddy's mate twisted his arm to fly on an A380 again, not the 777..... Rgds
30 Ikramerica : Yep, that's the logical conclusion. That the A380 is taking pax off of the 744s, not that SQ is increasing overall traffic. So what impact does this
31 Zvezda : Did Braybuddy point out that the same seats and IFE that his mate liked were available on a range of different aircraft? Regardless, some passengers
32 Braybuddy : While they were the major factors, he felt that there was a different feel to the A380: he thought it smoother in flight than any other aircraft he'd
33 Zeke : The cost to the consumer is the same for a Y seat regardless of the type flown, the cost to SQ is the lowest on the A380 compared to any other aircra
34 Astuteman : At the end of the day, we can swap anecdotes until we meet our maker. The only real test is:- "which aircraft has load factors which are holding up t
35 Airbazar : Or we can just listen to SQ who have said that they have seen specific demand for the A380 over the 744. So clearly there are enough people out there
36 Baroque : The stats on the SQ 380s seem to suggest it is a bit more than 1% let alone a tiny fraction of 1%. And a couple of % would be enough to make a bit di
37 AustrianZRH : I would agree with you on any aircraft type you could come up with, except the A380. Even my girlfriend who is not into planes at all knows what an A
38 Braybuddy : I'd love to know which ones! Certainly Singapore don't have them in Y on any of the 747s or 777s I've flown on. Their A380 seats are nearly 4 cm wide
39 AustrianZRH : On their 777-300ER, they also have the 19" seat width in Y. AFAIK, the seats on the 777-xxx used on their "regional" network have narrower seats.
40 Braybuddy : Do they have the same movable base? I didn't like the seats on their -200s at all: the inability of the armrest to raise fully made stretching-out ov
41 Ikramerica : That is not born out by experiences of other pax. Some have said the same, some have said it is less stable than a 777. It absolutely depends on the
42 Braybuddy : Like I said, we could have just been lucky, but out of the four flights on the LHR-SYD route, the only 747 leg was the one with any noticeable turbul
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