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What Happened To NW's Last DC-10s?  
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10683 times:

Hi all,
I am wondering what happened to Northwest's last DC-10s that left the fleet around 2006.
I know that some of them went to ATA while others were parked. What happened to the ATA ones when ATA went under? Are any of them still in passenger service?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10631 times:

World Airways has the old ATA/NW aircraft now. World and ATA had the same parent company.

User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10624 times:
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Quoting Hypercott (Thread starter):
What happened to the ATA ones when ATA went under?

Parked in the desert...


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Photo © Botterman Bram




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User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1460 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

World now has ownership of all 9 that ATA originally had, but only one of the ATA operating four is still operating with World as N139WA. World took delivery of 4 of the 9 directly after the acquisition of WO by ATA.

N223NW (spare airframe, was at one time to become N708TZ, still stored MZJ)
N224NW (spare airframe, was to be added to ATA fleet in 6/08 as N707TZ, stored MZJ)
N225NW (operated by ATA as N706TZ from 12/07 to 4/08, stored in MZJ)
N226NW (operated by ATA as N701TZ from 6/07 to 4/08, now operating with WO as N139WA)
N234NW (operated by ATA as N702TZ from 8/07 to 4/08, stored MZJ)
N235NW (operated by ATA as N705TZ from 10/07 to 4/08, stored MZJ)
N237NW (was to become N703TZ but not taken up, to WO as N136WA and still operating with them)
N241NW (was to be an ATA spare airframe, but taken up by WO as N137WA and still operating with them)
N242NW (was was to be an ATA spare airframe, but taken up by WO as N137WA and still operating with them)

A further 5 of the remainder of the NWA DC-10-30 fleet, mainly the later models, also went to Omni Air International (N238-240, 243, 244NW) and what was left (about 10 of the older airframes) have been scrapped.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10451 times:

I thought that FedEx grabbed a few DC-10s. World got all the old DL MD-11s. If I have it reversed please correct me.


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5366 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 10251 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 4):
I thought that FedEx grabbed a few DC-10s. World got all the old DL MD-11s. If I have it reversed please correct me.

World had subleased 3 of the DL MD11s from DL prior to the DL bankruptcy. Those 3 were owned by investment partnerships (whose major investors were, variously, as I recall, Disney and Northwestern Mutual Life) and had been leased to DL. DL was continuing to pay the leases on its MD11s prior to the bankruptcy, even though they weren't flying the planes. The investment partnerships had no incentive to let DL out of the leases, because the market for MD11s had declined precipitously since the leases were signed, and they wouldn't have been able to lease them to anyone else for the same money. (You win some, you lose some.) So they were parked but DL was paying for them.

DL, with the approval of the lessors, then sublet 3 of the parked MD11s to World, keeping them in pax configuration, for less money than they were in turn paying the lessors. However, at least they were offsetting a portion of their lease payments with revenue from World.

When DL declared bankruptcy, one of the first things they did was to "reject" the leases on their MD11s, including the 3 subleased to World. They also rejected the leases from DL to World. This meant that the lessors got title to their planes back, but weren't going to get any more payments at the old lease price. Having run that thread out as long as they could, the lessors didn't need to own these planes anymore, and they sold them to FedEx and UPS. The 3 aircraft leased to World, as I recall, were all sold to UPS. As World still wanted to use them, and UPS didn't have conversion slots available for them right away, UPS and World worked out a deal where World leased them directly from UPS for a period of time until conversion slots were available. They were to be returned on a staggered schedule.

World has 8 MD11s that I believe were leased as new-build aircraft, and a 9th that it leased that was ex-Sabena and CityBird. Of the new-build, 3 were pax config, 1 was freight, two were CF, and 2 were -ER pax. The CF aircraft were converted to straight F, and the ex-Sabena aircraft was later converted to a freighter. One of the -ER pax aircraft is used on the Houston Express in a special VIP-charter configuration. I believe that they now have 4 additional MD11Fs (total 8), but only the now-5 MD11 passenger aircraft. As shown above, they are also operating a number of ex-NW DC10s in passenger config, as well as an ex-CO DC10 pax aircraft (N14075). For a while, they were operating the last DC10 passenger aircraft ever built, but the lease was at a punitive price, and they dumped the aircraft as soon as they could, then later leased it again, then later it went, I believe, to Omni.

World is also now operating two 747-400 freighter conversions.


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2400 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 10222 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):

Great post, very informative!  thumbsup 



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineDalfannyc From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

Imagine if they were still around and DL took them and painted them...DC 10's in DL colors again...

User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 10060 times:

One of them N701TZ (ex-N226NW) operated by ATA, in Prishtina Int'l Airport during the first non-stop flight JFK - PRN.
*This bird is now operated by WO.

Photo taken by friend of mine Kushtrim
http://i43.tinypic.com/20j4nme.jpg

Regards,
Fatmir



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

Hi all,

thanks for the great responses! I flew quite often on NW's last DC-10s on the MEM-AMS route from 2004-2006 and I really enjoyed riding them. Glad to see some of the frames still in passenger service!


User currently offlineUpcfordcruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 8108 times:

Good info, occasionally we have both World MD-11ER's sitting around at IAH. It is nice seeing them still fly.

User currently offlineBeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1806 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Think World will get the 777 to replace these DC10's and Md11' down the road

User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1460 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4799 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):
When DL declared bankruptcy, one of the first things they did was to "reject" the leases on their MD11s, including the 3 subleased to World. They also rejected the leases from DL to World. This meant that the lessors got title to their planes back, but weren't going to get any more payments at the old lease price. Having run that thread out as long as they could, the lessors didn't need to own these planes anymore, and they sold them to FedEx and UPS. The 3 aircraft leased to World, as I recall, were all sold to UPS. As World still wanted to use them, and UPS didn't have conversion slots available for them right away, UPS and World worked out a deal where World leased them directly from UPS for a period of time until conversion slots were available. They were to be returned on a staggered schedule.

Actually, the lose of these MD-11s is why WO took 3 of the 9 DC-10s slated for ATA in 2007 beginning with N136WA (ex-N137NW), N137WA (ex-N241NW), and N138WA (ex-N242NW). The reason 136 is flying around in an all light-gray paint scheme is that is was actually in the middle of being painted for ATA in July, 2007 as N703TZ when the decision was made to lease it to WO instead. It was going to look similar to 701 in appearance, but without the silver mica which was expensive to apply.

Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 8):
One of them N701TZ (ex-N226NW) operated by ATA, in Prishtina Int'l Airport during the first non-stop flight JFK - PRN.
*This bird is now operated by WO.

Yes, this was 701's first revenue service with ATA in early June, 2007.....a proud culmination, at least for me, of over 9 months of intense work (blood, sweat, and tears) to bring this baby on the certificate. I never would have thought it would be all gone less than a year later, but happy to see her still flying with WO as N139WA. Most of the interior configuration and appearance of this aircraft and WO's other 3 can be attributed to me as the same engineering package and vendors were used to modify them to all coach class.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineFRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 4420 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):
I believe that they now have 4 additional MD11Fs (total 8),

Excellent info and history! One minor addition: World currently operates 9 MD-11 freighters as well as one DC-10 freighter, with another DC-10F recently parked.

Quoting Hypercott (Reply 9):
Think World will get the 777 to replace these DC10's and Md11' down the road

The lease rates for 777s are still prohibitively high for a charter outfit like World, especially with traffic to the Middle East likely to decline soon. However, once major airlines start taking delivery of the new 787, the 777 may become more affordable for World and you may well see a re-fleeting taking place, subject to military and cargo demand.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5366 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4299 times:



Quoting FRA2DTW (Reply 13):
One minor addition: World currently operates 9 MD-11 freighters as well as one DC-10 freighter, with another DC-10F recently parked.

Thanks for the info! (and the kind words). I know that there are mixed feelings about the DC10s; any plans in the works to activate any of the other frames that ATA was operating? I was thinking that 701 was the most reliable, at least for a while, but I think they were getting the kinks out of the other operating ones before the plug was pulled. I know from other posts that the W&B on 701 can be a challenge on some missions, but I don't know whether 702, 705 and 706 have the deactivated extra fuel tank which causes these loading issues and thus how desireable/undesireable these aircraft are for World's needs.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1460 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4112 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 14):
Thanks for the info! (and the kind words). I know that there are mixed feelings about the DC10s; any plans in the works to activate any of the other frames that ATA was operating? I was thinking that 701 was the most reliable, at least for a while, but I think they were getting the kinks out of the other operating ones before the plug was pulled. I know from other posts that the W&B on 701 can be a challenge on some missions, but I don't know whether 702, 705 and 706 have the deactivated extra fuel tank which causes these loading issues and thus how desireable/undesireable these aircraft are for World's needs.

Hello Bill. Yes, there was discussions of WO operating the other 3, but I believe they worked a deal with VX Capital that ended with them being acquired for spares. Of the other 3, 702 and 705 have low hours/cycles and the newer galleys, but 6 years older than 701. 706 is the oldest approaching 30000 cycles and 120,000 hours which is not the best one to me. Also, only 701 was a -30ER and the only one with the extra tank. None of the other 9 airframes had this. With 10 pax widebodies (5 MD-11s, 5 DC-10s), I am not sure there is enough business for WO to add any more either.

Christian



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
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