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TOL In Running For New Airline  
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

According to a talk radio station in Toledo, JetAmerica is looking at Toledo. I haven't listened to it yet, but will do so when I get home. More to come, I guess.

http://www.wspd.com/cc-common/news/sections/local/?newsart=2

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

I have no idea who keeps on funding these ventures. They must be using the losses for tax write offs, because why else would you start a low-fare airline out of Toledo when Columbus wouldn't work?

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3590 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

From the same folks that brought you Skybus.

Enough said.

Any "investor" that would even consider dropping $3 million into this is a complete fool.

Just watch the local government jump in with both feet and the taxpayers pocketbook.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

Local government in TOL won't fund it. Our mayor drives to DTW.

With the right business model, I'm sorry, but it could work. SX was getting people to drive to/from CMH with the tease of $10 fares. TOL is an easy drive from CLE and DTW. If they can control fuel costs, and lets face it TOL will be a lot cheaper to operate from than CMH was, it could work.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4507 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
From the same folks that brought you Skybus.

Enough said.

Any "investor" that would even consider dropping $3 million into this is a complete fool.

Just watch the local government jump in with both feet and the taxpayers pocketbook.

Skybus's model was sound. The implementation of that model, by a hired in - otherwise nonaffiliated with the writing of the plan and formulating of the premise - CEO is the reason it failed.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

It actually appears as if TOL is one of three airports competing for this base of operations.

User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4354 times:

I'm sure Q/F is just drooling over this. Wouldn't surprise me if they get the ground handling contract before it's even offered to other. Gee, that kind of sounds like the Direct Air contract. If it does become the case, be prepared for delays on bright sun shinny days.  faint 

User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4337 times:

Sigh....and I always liked remembering Jet America as the MD-80 operator out of LGB in the 1980s.... oh well.

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4334 times:



Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 1):
because why else would you start a low-fare airline out of Toledo when Columbus wouldn't work?

I honestly think TOL has a better chance at working because there are only 2 legacy carriers and 2 non-traditional airlines. They would keep a lot from leaking up to DTW instead - also would create traffic that wouldn't normally fly either with ridiculously low fares.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Just watch the local government jump in with both feet and the taxpayers pocketbook.

While the Port Authority is desparate, what they don't really have is cash. I would guess incentives would be a pretty good bet. The Port Authority will have a fairly modern and large hangar opening up in April, would be a good selling point.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 5):
It actually appears as if TOL is one of three airports competing for this base of operations.

I would actually like to hear the entire interview to see if they've gotten any kind of reception from the community. Only problem is, hardly any venture capitalists in the area to fund $3M.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4320 times:

I knew about this last week when CVG was in the running for JetAmerica, they also mentioned TOL..
TRUST ME TOLEDO, this is the last carrier you want!



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4305 times:



Quoting YNGguins (Reply 9):
TRUST ME TOLEDO, this is the last carrier you want!

If it's a horrible carrier that'll go out of business in a year or two, then by-golly, TOL will fight like hell to get it. What? we're suppost to beg carriers to fly to NYC? Why do that when you got this opportunity in front of you  Yeah sure


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4299 times:

TOL could have another opportunity ahead of them which may be a bit more realistic.


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4287 times:

Would this be the same Jet America that proposed WV in April?
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200804020728


User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4242 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 5):
It actually appears as if TOL is one of three airports competing for this base of operations.

The Cincinnati Enquirer mentioned that CVG was in the running as a possible base for this start-up's operations. Other locations mentioned in the past include Charleston, WV (CRW) and Springfield, OH (SGH).

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 8):
Quoting Jetskipper (Reply 1):
because why else would you start a low-fare airline out of Toledo when Columbus wouldn't work?

I honestly think TOL has a better chance at working because there are only 2 legacy carriers and 2 non-traditional airlines. They would keep a lot from leaking up to DTW instead - also would create traffic that wouldn't normally fly either with ridiculously low fares.

Agreed. Columbus air service was already at a generally acceptable level for its catchment area and provided among the lowest air fares in the state thanks to Southwest and jetBlue. Skybus merely plagued the market with a glut of seats at unsustainably low fares with an operation that cracked under pressure entirely too easy.

An ultra low cost carrier model would work well at TOL for multiple reasons.

The facilities already exist for a sizeable operation to set up shop. The recently renovated terminal has the space, the ramp facilities are adequate, two commercially acceptable crosswind runways, and a new hangar are all readily available. Probably most important is the fact the airport is uncongested. Turn and taxi times could truly effectively be minimalized at a facility like TOL as opposed to busier airports.

An ultra low cost carrier could effectively entice current budget-minded business and leisure travelers to choose TOL over DTW. If I remember correctly, Toledo experiences roughly an 80% leakage in air travel to Detroit. If even half of that could be kept at TOL, along with travelers from other parts of the state as well as Northeast Indiana and Southwest Michigan and you would have a decent sized pool of prospective fliers.

The costs of maintaining an operation at TOL are more favorable to an ultra low cost carrier. Gate leases, landing fees, cost of living, etc. are all less expensive at TOL than at other facilities. Couple that with an incentive package (which is not completely out of the question, since such packages currently do exist in other forms), and costs in these areas could be minimalized quite easily.

My only issue with this plan is the timing. With the economy still in peril and no readily apparent signs of a recovery, now seems like an awfully precarious time to not only start a budget carrier, but resurrect one that has already tanked once before. The odds are certainly not in their favor, but it overall I don't think it means a carrier with a Skybus/Ryanair/easyjet-type business model couldn't succeed eventually in Toledo or elsewhere in the United States.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4173 times:

Now is the precise time to start planning for a carrier. By the time the first flight happens - we ought to be well within a period of recovery on the way to prosperity. It is an economic climate similar to this that Apple and Microsoft were launched.

User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4150 times:

While certainly true, the timing doesn't exaclty play well for trying to secure multimillion dollar incentive packages from prospective cities, especially when many in this region are in a state of financial chaos. Granted, as I mentioned, most airports already do have large incentive packages on the table ready for prospective clients, however I don't know if any exist at the monetary level either necessary or desired for Skybus II/Jet America to begin operation.

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4117 times:



Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 15):
While certainly true, the timing doesn't exaclty play well for trying to secure multimillion dollar incentive packages from prospective cities, especially when many in this region are in a state of financial chaos. Granted, as I mentioned, most airports already do have large incentive packages on the table ready for prospective clients, however I don't know if any exist at the monetary level either necessary or desired for Skybus II/Jet America to begin operation.

I personally think they mentioned this because they are going after private dollars as opposed to tax dollars from the city. Like I said, the city, port, county have nothing to give. However, if they get an investor like Nationwide or the Dispatch...etc they could launch. Problem is, I really don't think there are $3M worth of private money here. I only know of a couple of venture capitalists here in the city and they are merely funding the solar panel companies.

I also think it's a good idea to start at this time - for a few reasons mentioned above. Also, I think this area is looking for something defining and having a national brand like an airline, people might get behind and support it. Look at Jeep. If the airline/city could mount a campaign like that, I'm sure it could succeed. I would think a start up of a mix between Skybus and Allegiant would be best. Not fly all days of the week to some destinations..etc. I think it could work and the area would get behind it, especially with the job losses and losing identity. Heck, new arena opening up downtown, could call it the JetAmerica Center  Smile


User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3975 times:



Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 13):
The facilities already exist for a sizeable operation to set up shop. The recently renovated terminal has the space

What renovated terminal are you talking about? The West Wing that's detriated or the East Wing that's falling apart? When the original DL pullled out, the East Wing was shut down and has leakage problems. The West Wing hasn't been touched on in about 3 years with it falling apart. There is no additional counter space because when the airport did "renovate" it never planned for future growth. There's only one open counter space and the two counter spaces that are occupied are used by two airlines that only operate once or twice a week. If you ever mentioned about consolitated those two spaces, a particular big whig at the airport would throw a fit.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3901 times:



Quoting CMHARJ (Reply 17):
The West Wing that's detriated or the East Wing that's falling apart?

Well...I would think this "airline" could get gates 3-5 and if needed open up a gate 6 down at the end for now. The rest of the airlines would go to the east wing which could easily handle them - American to gate 1 and Northwest to gate 1A. Things can be patched up down there.

Just some media information:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=6636736

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=254352


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

What on earth is JetAmerica thinking posting their entire route map, or potential route map if you would, on the internet!


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3882 times:



Quoting CMHARJ (Reply 17):
When the original DL pullled out, the East Wing was shut down and has leakage problems. The West Wing hasn't been touched on in about 3 years with it falling apart. There is no additional counter space because when the airport did "renovate" it never planned for future growth.

The east wing (gates 1, 1A, 2) was open until Delta pulled out last September. It's currently being repaired. The west wing, (gates 6 and 7) is currently being repaired as well. Direct Air was supposed to use gate 6. Jetbridges have been removed from gates 2 and 7. Skybus used a "no jetbridge" model, which would work using gate 1A with the ground boarding bridges removed.

There isn't any additional counter space at the moment, but the Port did leave the area to the west of the current counters available to expand. The entire area next to AA could be expanded. My hunch is that QuickFright would move Direct Air out of their current counter space, which would give 2 counters to the new carrier. And yes, they'd just just QuickFright the ground handling. They've not given anyone a chance to bid in the past.


User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3865 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 20):
And yes, they'd just just QuickFright the ground handling. They've not given anyone a chance to bid in the past.

So you're saying that QuickFlight would be working the flights without giving others the chance to bid? What are the chances that this airline would use their own people?


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Look at their "potential" route map in that link.

DREAM ON.

That just ain't gonna happen in TOL. If there were that much traffic to capture there, even if you were able to drag-back 75% of the DTW-opting passengers, you'd have the legacies already with a much greater presence than the anemic existence today, and WN or F9 would have pounced on the airport already.

[Edited 2009-02-02 20:10:45]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3835 times:

If this airline starts, it will be doomed to fail. Probably faster than Skybus too!


Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3835 times:



Quoting CMHARJ (Reply 21):
So you're saying that QuickFlight would be working the flights without giving others the chance to bid? What are the chances that this airline would use their own people?

Remember, this is the Skybus folks. Skybus outsourced passenger handling. QuickFlight handled Skybus in a number of cities.

The Port did not give other airlines the opportunity to bid to handle Direct Air. At least one other airline wanted to bid. The Port bought the towbar used to push the VX Airbus. Don't expect a traditional RFP process for ground handling here.


25 Ouboy79 : Interesting. Will comment more when I got time. New server came today for the FlyTOL site, so working on getting that all setup. Should be good to go
26 Flyinryan99 : Nothing that a few suspended bag belts can't fix. There is still plenty of room to put things at the airport. It may take a little inginuity, but it
27 CMHARJ : I see DL flying to ATL and US coming back for CLT flights before that happens. What ever happened to the only 2 airlines that fly out of TOL? AA, DL/
28 TOLtommy : CAK doesn't. Let's face it, TOL flyers are CHEAP. They'll drive to DTW and spend $20/day to park to save $10 on an airline ticket. Direct Air was get
29 JA : I don't know what is cooking down there. They have been sitting on the NYC grant despite having numerous options to get the service. What's the deal?
30 YNGguins : You'd think someone would consider going after that grant.
31 Kcrwflyer : Care to name an option or two that TOL has carelessly passed up?
32 Breaker1011 : I think you make an EXCELLENT observation here. Airports like TOL in the past decade go so ga-ga-ya-ya over a potential new entrant, especially a low
33 Flyinryan99 : Quite honestly, there hasn't been any kind of advertising other then a commercial here or an electronic billboard there. There just isn't any money t
34 Dtw9 : What they said in the article from Toledo on the move; [Jet America founders have been meeting with businesses and community leaders in three Ohio ci
35 Breaker1011 : I believe 40+ years of service to TOL on Delta, despite several month's respite in the past year as a partial response to unbelievable fuel costs, is
36 Ouboy79 : Beautiful thing in this situation, TOL has minimal existing air service so there isn't an issue with that. Should they go through with it, it could h
37 Breaker1011 : Hmmm - venture capitalists propping up the airline aside.... Uh huh. The airport is part of the city, no?
38 Ouboy79 : Try close to 60. Regardless, they felt the need to make the ATL schedule horrible enough that it drove people away. Similar to the DFW route being po
39 ItalianFlyer : I watched that ABC TV spot....average fare of $69 each way and average starting salary of $48,000. Talk about fuzzy math. Lets not forget that Don Bur
40 CMHARJ : Is this coming from the same guy that said a few months ago on a different thread about how horrible TOL is and the Port is nothing but scumbags. Acc
41 JA : I was informed of at least two or three entities looking at that grant. The parties were not named, but JetAmerica matches the description of one. Th
42 Post contains links Flyinryan99 : I don't even know where to start. That is a pretty big accusation for someone who rants about the airport but doesn't seem to have any kind of affill
43 DTW757 : Boys Boys Boys....try to get along.
44 Toltommy : So they weren't named, but somehow they were an option? Delta was talked about at one point, but they never showed any real interest. DirectAir has b
45 CMHARJ : HAHA...I'm liking Toltommy more and more each day. He's blunt and tells it how it is.
46 Toltommy : HaHa, thanks.... I prefer the term "brutally honest", and of course the wife absolutely hates it....
47 Post contains links Dtw757 : A story about it in today's Blade. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...AID=/20090204/BUSINESS03/902040330 Here's a great clip of what an aviation a
48 Flyinryan99 : I don't believe these Toth's are related.[Edited 2009-02-04 13:46:11]
49 TOLtommy : You mean like how Konop and Skeldon are not here in TOL? I'm not so sure about that.... I love the nepotism on that linked page.... Geez, either your
50 MOBflyer : You have to give Boyd props for speaking his mind without allowing external considerations. However, while he is often right - he is sometimes wrong.
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