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Lufthansa Earnings Up To € 1.3 Bn, Beats Targets  
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6920 times:

Seems Lufthansa has done well:

From Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.eB5m1vRc5U&refer=home)
Operating profit last year totaled about 1.3 billion euros ($1.67 billion), compared with a target of 1.1 billion euros, because of a "more stable result development" in the fourth quarter than the airline had forecast, Cologne, Germany-based Lufthansa said today in a statement.

Also reported by Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSL373530820090203).

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

We are hearing bad results all around the world, even the so ambitious Asian airlines park aircrafts these days and LH is still having such positive results; 200 million more then expected because of a better fourth quarter.

Everyone else is blaming third and especially fourth quarter for their results.


Any news on AF-KL? Will they come close?


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

How dare they???

They have a huge fleet of 4-holers, amongst which those fuel hungry A340s and they don't stop ordering more of them!

Anybody in his right mind will tell you you can't make money like that. Big grin


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9377 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6536 times:

They even made a profit out of the Lehman Bros collapse.  Smile This voided one of their fuel hedging contracts and LH could take advantage of the cheaper market fuel. Instead of 85% their toital amount of hedging reduced to 72% of the total fuel required.

By far the best managed airline, they are lucky as well.and they don't need a big mouth.

enough earned to keep the dividend at the 2007 level. Hopefully.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6532 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
They even made a profit out of the Lehman Bros collapse. Smile This voided one of their fuel hedging contracts and LH could take advantage of the cheaper market fuel.

That's quite interesting. Other airlines should have profited in the same way. Unless they hedged at significant lower price levels from what we see today. But that seems unlikely.


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6408 times:



Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 2):
How dare they???

They have a huge fleet of 4-holers, amongst which those fuel hungry A340s and they don't stop ordering more of them!

I know, they got ancient 744s and gas-guzzling A340s...worse yet, no 777s! Oh, and don't forget those nasty A300s as well!!!

Their result does add some perspective to our endless (but fun) discussions over aircraft types. We all have our favorites but at the end of the day the airlines will operate what they feel is best for them regardless of what we "experts" think...


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6342 times:



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
I know, they got ancient 744s and gas-guzzling A340s...worse yet, no 777s! Oh, and don't forget those nasty A300s as well!!!

.

It gets even worse: those A340s are partly the -600 series, the most uneconomical and most inefficient plane around, a true reason for losses opposed to airlines operating the 77W!!

But, congratulations LH, and get that OS deal done, please!



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently onlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3587 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

Just one little note of caution:

if you read the LH release they mention that trading conditions are deteriorating, and in addition the figure quoted is operating profit; this is rather different to net profit, as tax, finance costs and various other things have to be deducted. Looking at LH's quarterly releases, the difference between the two is about 40% or so.

There again though, in the present climate any black ink at the bottom of the balance sheet is a welcome sight.


User currently offlineOlle From Sweden, joined Feb 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

I hope that they soon purchases SAS as well and make it into a well run company.

User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

Lufthansa's Adhoc Release:
http://www.lufthansa-financials.de/s...vlet/PB/menu/1028218_l2/index.html


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5934 times:



Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 2):
How dare they???

They have a huge fleet of 4-holers, amongst which those fuel hungry A340s and they don't stop ordering more of them!

Anybody in his right mind will tell you you can't make money like that. Big grin

In addition, they turned down the 77W with the words "we are not the Caritas". So regardless of what Boeing's marketing department claims, the A32X-A333-A343-A346-and-soon-A380-combo seems to be the choice of the money makers.


User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5923 times:



Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 2):
How dare they???

LOL, indeed, how dare they make a huge profit using the gas guzzlers called A340????


Nonetheless Kudos to LH management. They once again proved how to manage an Airline!


User currently offlineDRAIGONAIR From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 708 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Hows KL-AF doing?

Anyone have any speculation what this summer is going to do for jobs @ KL-AF? (i should be done with my training and hope to start flying with KLM in the summer, which probably wont happen due to the economic situation).



cheers
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5678 times:



Quoting DRAIGONAIR (Reply 12):
Hows KL-AF doing?

They will get their fingers burnt with Alitalia.  Big grin

Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Why does every i*iot has to try to make this thread into an A-vs-B thread?

I don't know if LH already released their fuel burn numbers per aircraft type like they did in the last years, but if someone would come up with them and compare them with other airlines to prove that LH operates a diversified fleet with aircrafts which are just right for them to optimize their fuel burn and operating costs this would be acceptable, informative and helpful.

But comments just bash A or B and start ridiculous discussions should be under your intellectual level...


User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5528 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
Why does every i*iot has to try to make this thread into an A-vs-B thread?

Being one of those i-diots, it is obvious that this is ironic as it is obvious that the 77W has a better CASM than a A34X.
The clue is to generate a huge profit with your assets, though the success is not due to the A/C but the managerial skills of LH Management.

I dont think this will turn into a A-vs-B battle as this is one of the few good news in this economic climate!


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Though these results are very good for LH, don't forget that these results concern the "civil" year Jan 1 to Dec 31st 2008, while most of the major will publish their results on the IATA year Apr 1st 2008 --> March 31st 2009.

LH in its results has "only" 3 months of the World financial crisis (Oct/Nov/Dec 2008) while BA, AFKL and others will also have to take in count the first quarter of 2009 so the comparison is a bit biased.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6808 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5453 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
So regardless of what Boeing's marketing department claims, the A32X-A333-A343-A346-and-soon-A380-combo seems to be the choice of the money makers.

It's not a certain combo of aircraft types which guarantees success, but the way how an airline is managed. LH's success doesn't change the planes' particular capabilities.

Btw - what do you expect from marketing departments? It's their job to praise the own products.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5367 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
Why does every i*iot has to try to make this thread into an A-vs-B thread?

Why can't you see it for what it is, just some tongue-in-cheek fun? Besides, several posters (myself included) not only made reference to all of their 4-holer models (which include a/c from BOTH Airbus and Boeing) but also made it clear that what makes the difference in this case is not the a/c but the management. Sure, having a more economical a/c is never a bad place to start from but LH has shown that it is a combination of having the right mix of a/c plus allocating the a/c where it makes the most sense.

No need to be so serious in these threads all the time, we have enough of those already!  Wink


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

One interesting thing is (refering to the union thread in non-AV) that LH is unionised, with the majority of the employees being members of one of four unions involved (VerDi = Ground staff, Vereinigung Cockpit = Pilots, UFO = Cabin crew, DAG = Administrative staff) and still makes a lot of profit. While the employees sure want to have their share of the profits, theyare not interested in killing the company and realise that, to continue, they'll have to keep the shareholders happy as well. The VerDi strike of lastyear wasn't welcomed by many LH employees and AFAIK, the reaction forced the union boss to resign.

Jan


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4737 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
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Quoting Charles79 (Reply 18):
Sure, having a more economical a/c is never a bad place to start from but LH has shown that it is a combination of having the right mix of a/c plus allocating the a/c where it makes the most sense.

No need to be so serious in these threads all the time, we have enough of those already!

 

That is very much true! LH have done well last year, as always. Good management is much more important then the choice of aircraft, or even the concept of the airliners or their age. It always has been and it probably always will.   Newer planes help, but are not the holy grail on their own.

[Edited 2009-02-03 13:19:25]

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4727 times:



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
It's not a certain combo of aircraft types which guarantees success, but the way how an airline is managed.

The fleet alone doesn't guarantee success, you need good management. But good management includes having a good fleet.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
LH's success doesn't change the planes' particular capabilities.

No, but their success shows that they have people who can calculate right. And those people bought the planes I mentioned. So I suppose it is the best fleet you can have.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
Btw - what do you expect from marketing departments? It's their job to praise the own products.

Praising own products is OK, but what they did was a defamation of competing products - and that was not OK.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6808 posts, RR: 77
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3543 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
So I suppose it is the best fleet you can have.

LH ordered the most suitable aircraft available at certain points of time. When they ordered the first A340s, the 777 wasn't available yet. So it was a logic decision to build up and keep an A340 fleet and over the following years. It was similar with the A32X fleet. Therefore, one cannot draw general conclusions based only on LH's fleet when comparing aircraft types to their competitors. It's quite likely LH wouldn't be less successful with a fleet of 737NGs and 777s.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 21):
Praising own products is OK, but what they did was a defamation of competing products - and that was not OK.

I don't think it's just the Boeing marketing to blame. But whatever, it doesn't matter to good fleet planners anyway.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2762 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 1):
so ambitious Asian airlines

Sorry but I think this only applies to the Middle Eastern airlines, many of whom are still doing pretty well.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2704 times:



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 23):
Sorry but I think this only applies to the Middle Eastern airlines, many of whom are still doing pretty well.

Singapore isn't in the middle east.  Wink


25 Huaiwei : But Singapore can't exactly be considered an "ambitious" airline, now or for much of its history. Perfectionist perhaps, but not ambitious, given its
26 AznMadSci : SQ I say seems like both. Ambitious to start IAH, and perfectionist by rescheduling the flight and possibly keeping it in the hopes it does well with
27 CARST : I was aiming at the Chinese airlines. China seemed unstoppable but is now hit as hard as the USA with all the dollars they have. And they don't seem
28 Huaiwei : We differ in opinion then. The addition of IAH is considered an oddity even amongst those most familiar with the airline, and perfectionism is much m
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