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Canadian Airlines To PEK In The 1990s  
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

I believe Canadian Airlines, CP, was flying Vancouver to Beijing with a 767-300. I was told the aircraft was overnighting in Beijing for 16 hours before returning back to YVR. Can someone with access to an old OAG confirm this? It seems illogical that a widebody aircraft would be used inefficiently like that.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

That timing doesn't make much sense, but stranger things have happened. Viscount724, where are you - you seem to have the answers to this sort of historical question.

[Edited 2009-02-03 16:50:18]


The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineHeavy747 From Canada, joined Mar 2000, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Its possible.. AC flys a B77W to GRU with a 12 or so hour ground time..


Aviation Enthusiast Extraordinaire
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Looking at the May 1997 CP timetable, it does look like the 767-300 sat in Beijing for a while.

Here is the schedule effective May 1997:

Vancouver-Beijing
1:00pm-3:25pm+1 CP29 763 Nonstop ExWedFri
1:45pm-4:10pm+1 CP20 763 Nonstop WedOnly

Beijing-Vancouver
10:45am-6:25am CP30 763 Nonstop FriOnly
1:45pm-9:25am CP30 763 Nonstop ThuSatOnly
2:35pm-10:30am CP30 763 Nonstop MonOnly
2:55pm-10:35am CP30 763 Nonstop TueWedOnly

Hope this helps.

Greg
www.departedflights.com


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 1):
That timing doesn't make much sense, but stranger things have happened. Viscount724, where are you - you seem to have the answers to this sort of historical question.

Sorry, I have no timetables from that period. Can only speculate that since YVR-PEK would not have been daily then, they may have preferred to overnight at PEK so the same crew could operate the return flight, allowing enough time for crew rest. Otherwise a crew would have to spend 2 or 3 days in PEK before returning on the next flight. Or it may just have been to maximize connectivity at both ends.

Turnarounds that long aren't unusual and are often required due to scheduling requirements. AC's 777-300ER that operates YVR-HKG-YVR sits in HKG for 18 hours. Arrives at 1845 and departs the next day at 1245. That's no doubt to maximize connectivity at YVR in both directions. If it turned around in 2 or 3 hours and departed HKG at night it would arrive in YVR late in the afternoon and miss many connections to other points in Canada/USA. And if it left YVR much earlier than the current 1305 departure time to permit an earlier departure from HKG and avoid the overnight stop, it would then miss many inbound connections to YVR.

[Edited 2009-02-03 17:22:32]

User currently offlineTimeToFly From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

If Aeromexico bakes under the Sun its 762ER's and 763ER's in EZE from 13:25 to 23:55 (the same flying time between MEX and EZE) and their 777 in GRU from 13:15 to 23:55, no wonder CP used to do the same in Beijing.

User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3407 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
AC's 777-300ER that operates YVR-HKG-YVR sits in HKG for 18 hours.

One would think that would pose an excellent opportunity for that plane to complete a turn to BKK, SIN, or even DEL or BOM. Not sure what the market, alliance or bilateral restrictions are though.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 3379 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 6):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
AC's 777-300ER that operates YVR-HKG-YVR sits in HKG for 18 hours.

One would think that would pose an excellent opportunity for that plane to complete a turn to BKK, SIN, or even DEL or BOM. Not sure what the market, alliance or bilateral restrictions are though.

Canadian Airlines extended the YVR-HKG route to BKK for a few years, first using DC-10-30 and then 747-400. As far as I know it was never profitable.. There is so much capacity HKG-BKK (and to most other Southeast Asia destinations from HKG) that you almost had to give away the seats on the 5th freedom sectors, and there was little Canada-BKK through traffic, and plenty of competition by other carries via their own hubs (JL/CX/SQ/KE etc.).

Canadian then tried extending the YVR-HKG 747-400s to MNL for a while. That didn't last long either. The days of those short tag-on 5th freedom sectors are over with rare exceptions. The costs are usually higher than the additional revenue. It's more efficient to codeshare on alliance partners or other interline carriers.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Makes sense. It's not like I was wondering why nobody else had thought of it before. Thanks.

But I wonder why tag-on service to India is not mote appealing for western Canadians. A stop in HKG is (marginally) shorter to Delhi & Mumbai than going through Europe.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3210 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Turnarounds that long aren't unusual and are often required due to scheduling requirements. AC's 777-300ER that operates YVR-HKG-YVR sits in HKG for 18 hours. Arrives at 1845 and departs the next day at 1245. That's no doubt to maximize connectivity at YVR in both directions. If it turned around in 2 or 3 hours and departed HKG at night it would arrive in YVR late in the afternoon and miss many connections to other points in Canada/USA. And if it left YVR much earlier than the current 1305 departure time to permit an earlier departure from HKG and avoid the overnight stop, it would then miss many inbound connections to YVR.

I believe AC has many 777-300ERs some of which may be deployed on other routes. The particular aircraft doing YVR-HKG-YVR may be doing other routes as well such as YVR-HKG-YVR-SYD-YVR-HGK and thus go through a major cleaning in HKG while it is sitting there. This way everyday might be a different 777-300ER arriving in HKG.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3081 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 9):
I believe AC has many 777-300ERs some of which may be deployed on other routes. The particular aircraft doing YVR-HKG-YVR may be doing other routes as well such as YVR-HKG-YVR-SYD-YVR-HGK and thus go through a major cleaning in HKG while it is sitting there. This way everyday might be a different 777-300ER arriving in HKG.

I agree, although AC wouldn't be using the same aircraft to HKG and SYD since HKG uses the -300ER and SYD the -200LR.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8387 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
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Quoting N702ML (Reply 3):
Looking at the May 1997 CP timetable, it does look like the 767-300 sat in Beijing for a while.

Here is the schedule effective May 1997:

Vancouver-Beijing
1:00pm-3:25pm+1 CP29 763 Nonstop ExWedFri
1:45pm-4:10pm+1 CP20 763 Nonstop WedOnly

Beijing-Vancouver
10:45am-6:25am CP30 763 Nonstop FriOnly
1:45pm-9:25am CP30 763 Nonstop ThuSatOnly
2:35pm-10:30am CP30 763 Nonstop MonOnly
2:55pm-10:35am CP30 763 Nonstop TueWedOnly



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Sorry, I have no timetables from that period. Can only speculate that since YVR-PEK would not have been daily then, they may have preferred to overnight at PEK so the same crew could operate the return flight, allowing enough time for crew rest. Otherwise a crew would have to spend 2 or 3 days in PEK before returning on the next flight. Or it may just have been to maximize connectivity at both ends.

Given most North Americans going to Peking go to Peking, the overnight has more to do with a early departure so passengers going to eastern Canada can clear customs in Vancouver. Arrival in YVR before 10:30 is vital for connections to YYZ & YVR.


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