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DL And The 777 To JNB Some Help Please  
User currently offlineSA744 From South Africa, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4787 times:

Gooday All

I was just on the Delta website trying to book a flight to ATL, i was given the quote and the flight is on the T7 but it had in small letters saying still waiting goverment approval, is this for approval for the use of the 777 or the slots for the direct flight.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

Sa744

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePnh2atl From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4608 times:

It is for the direct flight.

User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

When I booked a skymiles business class ticket recently I did not book the DL segment because I was concerned they might not actually operate the route as planned. A lot could change...

I chose to route via CDG on AF going and AMS on KL coming back. Feel more secure with those options, esp. since I will be joining others and have less flexibility in dates.



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1109 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

I would book the flight. I mean worst case is that the flight will continue its routing via DKR.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

there is virtually no basis for S. Africa to block DL's addition of a nonstop flight in both directions although they are clearly trying to keep that "subject to gov't approval" tag on the flight as long as possible. If you remember, DL's original S. Africa flights got down to the wire on S. Africa approvals and S. Africa resisted DL's attempts to upgrade the flight to 764s.

DL has more 777s coming this summer than they really need so the ATL-JNB upgrade to nonstop is one of the lowest risk ways to deploy the LRs.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8496 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3930 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
DL has more 777s coming this summer than they really need so the ATL-JNB upgrade to nonstop is one of the lowest risk ways to deploy the LRs.

ATL to JNB is 8500 miles, SAA's number, whuch seems a flight right in the 777LR's sweet spot. Incredible is the fact it can take-off from JNB NONSTOP to ATL.

Can anyone say what kind of restriction the LR will have out of JNB to ATL, weight or payload wise ?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3839 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Can anyone say what kind of restriction the LR will have out of JNB to ATL, weight or payload wise ?

lots of people have asked that question before. based on Boeing charts, I believe the LR should be able to make the flight nonstop without any passenger of baggage restrictions but it might have little ability to carry cargo.


User currently offlinePnh2atl From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3839 times:

We now do ATL-BOM which is 8510nm and ATL-JNB is 8439. The JNB flight will probable have less wind to contend with westbound then BOM and we make it out of BOM with no trouble. JNB-ATL is blocked for 16:15 which includes taxi time and BOM-ATL is currently 17:55. I did it last week and we weighed 732K (766k max) w/ 257 pax (max is 276) and we climbed right up to FL310. JNB is about 5500 feet higher and that will have an impact. But unless it is real hot I'd "guess" that there will not be much in the way of restrictions. But that is just a guess.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3788 times:

In cases where winds or temperature or other factors that do not permit a fully loaded non-stop flight to take off from JNB to ATL, wouldn't it make sense to fly to CPT (where DL already has a station), fuel up there, and then fly to ATL non-stop?

How profitable is the DKR stopover proving to be for DL anyways?



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User currently offlinePnh2atl From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3752 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
How profitable is the DKR stopover proving to be for DL anyways?

Since they are going nonstop I'd guess it isn't.

A flag stop has some ramifications to crew duty day limits that may make it impossible. CPT is out of the way and I'd guess it would add another 3 hours or so to the duty day and that could be to much. Based on the block time the duty day is 18:45 already.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3684 times:



Quoting Pnh2atl (Reply 7):

We now do ATL-BOM which is 8510nm and ATL-JNB is 8439. The JNB flight will probable have less wind to contend with westbound then BOM and we make it out of BOM with no trouble. JNB-ATL is blocked for 16:15 which includes taxi time and BOM-ATL is currently 17:55. I did it last week and we weighed 732K (766k max) w/ 257 pax (max is 276) and we climbed right up to FL310. JNB is about 5500 feet higher and that will have an impact. But unless it is real hot I'd "guess" that there will not be much in the way of restrictions. But that is just a guess.

according to Boeing's detailed data, the LR with 110s and standard temps plus 33 degrees F will be limited to a MTOW of about 700K at JNB and that is limited by tire speed. I'm guessing you had cargo out of BOM which if you back off about 20K lbs of cargo and an hour of fuel, you get pretty close to 700K. Standard temp at 5500 ft is about 40 degrees F.


User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3614 times:



Quoting Pnh2atl (Reply 9):
Since they are going nonstop I'd guess it isn't.

DKR probably doesn't make much of a contribution, as the market isn't that large and SA also links DKR with IAD & JFK, but keep in mind that DKR will retain daily ATL service as a stopover for the upcoming ATL-NBO/CPT services.

Additionally, last I checked DL was retaining JFK-DKR using 757s....timed to connect with the NBO/CPT services.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5838 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3566 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
wouldn't it make sense to fly to CPT (where DL already has a station), fuel up there, and then fly to ATL non-stop?

CPT has its own issue for a fully loaded 77L: a short (<10k ft.) runway.

I expect if they can't make the nonstop due to heat in JNB they will stop at DKR.


User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3514 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 12):
I expect if they can't make the nonstop due to heat in JNB they will stop at DKR.

But with an extra two hours flight time/fueling diversion, won't they then run into crew timing out issues?

Perhaps if they have JNB heat issues, DL could fly the plane to SJU, and do a fuel stop/crew change there. A lot easier to fly an extra 777 crew down to SJU than to DKR.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5218 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3399 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
lots of people have asked that question before. based on Boeing charts, I believe the LR should be able to make the flight nonstop without any passenger of baggage restrictions but it might have little ability to carry cargo.

I too have looked closely at the load/ range data in context of a JNB takeoff. I concur with your opinion based on the DL seating arrangement of circa 276 seats. Now if they were taking off in the late evening they should get some help from lower temperatures.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3385 times:



Quoting Frostbite (Reply 11):
DKR probably doesn't make much of a contribution



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 14):
I too have looked closely at the load/ range data in context of a JNB takeoff. I concur with your opinion based on the DL seating arrangement of circa 276 seats. Now if they were taking off in the late evening they should get some help from lower temperatures.

DL retimed the flight to leave at 9 pm from JNB which does reduce the likely influence of temperatures. the 7.20 a.m. arrival at ATL is still early enough to make good connections all over DL's network.


User currently offlineRB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

Just a thought but with DL going global, would a stop @ GIG be far fetched? If you think it doesn't make sense, no sweat just asking.


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User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3257 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
there is virtually no basis for S. Africa to block DL's addition of a nonstop flight in both directions although they are clearly trying to keep that "subject to gov't approval" tag on the flight as long as possible. If you remember, DL's original S. Africa flights got down to the wire on S. Africa approvals and S. Africa resisted DL's attempts to upgrade the flight to 764s.

doesn't mean they wont though.
No matter what DL will still have ATL-JNB. It may end up being ATL-DKR-JNB but its not likely and it wouldn't stop me from booking on them.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
DL has more 777s coming this summer than they really need so the ATL-JNB upgrade to nonstop is one of the lowest risk ways to deploy the LRs.

not sure how true this is..........JNB was going to happen pretty soon once they got the 77Ls. It will free up more 764s to send to Europe and get Lie-flats.



yep.
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8496 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3247 times:
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Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 12):
CPT has its own issue for a fully loaded 77L: a short (<10k ft.) runway.

SAA used to operate their CPT to Miami nonstop with a 744 from this same 10K runway.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3204 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
JNB was going to happen pretty soon once they got the 77Ls.

not necessarily. if the economy was right, adding new routes might have made more sense. There is some risk because of the performance issues with JNB.


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