Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
South Bend, IN (SBN) New Air Service  
User currently offlineAadfw From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 34 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

With the annoucement of the treminal expansion in South Bend, IN (SBN) that is scheduled to begin this Spring, do you think a some added service is possbile?

I know that Allegiant is planning starting some service to Mexico.

Anyone heard any other new service possibilities? I would be great to have American Eagle service from DFW to SBN or any of the other AX hubs.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5539 times:

Allegiant isn't going to be starting any Mexico in likely at least another year or two. It looks like they are trying to solidify their new bases/focus cities in Punta Gorda and the new one out west before they go international.

I think you'll G4 get a few B737s or A320s before they go international.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5487 times:

Why would a new/expanded terminal cause any new service to be added? Unless the prior one was at complete capacity, its the same market with the same dynamics as before - except now you have an expensive, shiny place to depart from, that will allow for future growth.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5423 times:

My bet is on MQ re-entering the market with service to DFW.


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5305 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
My bet is on MQ re-entering the market with service to DFW.

Does MQ have the aircraft? That's a pretty long flight...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSkyrat From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5170 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Does MQ have the aircraft? That's a pretty long flight...

Should be about the same as FWA-DFW. If they pull an underperforming route, then they would have the aircraft. Unless they have some parked



flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
User currently offlineFreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5068 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here's what is actually going on at SBN. The Terminal has two holding rooms with three jetways on one and one on the other. They are attached to the buildings as an afterthought. Also there are no ammnities beyond the two security checkpoints. The security arrangements and checkpoints are really to small for TSA and the type of operations SBN does especially with Allegiant. They are going to build an 9 gate second floor type concourse with 45,000 square feet. It will have all the amenities that all other small to medium size airports have. It will also have a revised security checkpoint probably coming out of the center of the main building where the viewing area is now. the old holding rooms will be torn down when this concourse is finished. The new concourse will have 8 jetways attached to it in a manner as large airports do to more easily accomodate wheel chairs etc. This new concourse also will be able to accomodate the numerous ORD diversions that SBN receives each year.

Now for the new service. Allegiant does plan weekend service to Cancun from South Bend in the future. This will require a US Customs facility and an international gate which will be more easily accomplished with the building of this new concourse.
American Eagle most likely will return to SBN when this new building is finished. There is pent-up demand for service to DFW. There is also demand for service to EWR and possibly IAH. With Continental Connection service to CLE already in place this can easily be accomplished by Jetllink. The ticket counter space most likely will be rearranged first with Delta and Northwest combining counters into one large counter and Continental and United Express doing the same or using separate counters. American Eagle's counter is still in place next to Allegiant's

That's the way I see it..

Chris


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4992 times:



Quoting Freakyrat (Reply 6):
Allegiant does plan weekend service to Cancun from South Bend in the future.

What makes you think this?

Quoting Freakyrat (Reply 6):
American Eagle most likely will return to SBN when this new building is finished. There is pent-up demand for service to DFW. There is also demand for service to EWR and possibly IAH. With Continental Connection service to CLE already in place this can easily be accomplished by Jetllink.

What is stopping them from offering this service now? A new terminal typically does didly for creating new service. It just allows for smart growth in the future.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

Once again, where did you hear Allegiant was adding flights to Cancun, a link would be appreciated. We ALL question you because there are no international flights, at least scheduled ones, for Allegiant Air.

What makes you think we'll believe you that they'd offer them from SBN?



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineFreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4900 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Allegiant has approached airport management at SBN at an Airport Managers Conference in LAS last year about the possibility of offering a few seasonal flights to CUN. It would require a US Customs facility which management is working on. It's at least three years away yet. The local SBN press has already mentioned it. It's no secret.

Like I said before the new terminal Concourse is actually being built for the convenience of the passengers and the TSA. Continental Express did offer service to EWR on Notre Dame Football weekends and it was well received. New York is the number 1 connecting market out of SBN. Orlando is the number 2 market which is served adequately now by Allegiants flights to SFB and PIE. The old holding room setup at SBN does not work very well anymore and the Jetways are not placed in the right places and on the right gates. The combining of both hold rooms into one large modern concourse makes more sense. American Eagle may return when the time is right. When they did serve SBN they only went to ORD in competition with United Express. United Express flights are always full or overbooked and they are mostly run with CRJ7 aircraft. Like I said before SBN gets a lot of diversions from ORD every year and a larger building with the right kind of amenities and jetways, ground power, AC and such at the gates will make it a little easier in terms of aircraft parking etc.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

Thanks for clarifying on the Mexico service - though a link would still be nice.

As far as CO being well received on select weekends - they wouldn't go through the trouble if they didn't think that they would be well received.

As far as MQ entering when the time is right - is this dependent on the terminal? And I can gurantee you that the ORD/UA flights are not always full/oversold. Even if they were - that means didly, and perhaps is a bad sign regarding yields.

And FYI - NYC, ORL, and WAS are interchangeable as the largest nonstop or connecting markets for virtually all airports east of the Mississippi.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4784 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 7):
What is stopping them from offering this service now? A new terminal typically does didly for creating new service. It just allows for smart growth in the future.

If anything, a new terminal makes it harder to get new service, as costs generally go up (see IND).

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 5):
Should be about the same as FWA-DFW. If they pull an underperforming route, then they would have the aircraft.

AA is not an airline with an excess of regional aircraft. They (by necessity) stick their aircraft on the best-performing routes.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSkyrat From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4683 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
AA is not an airline with an excess of regional aircraft. They (by necessity) stick their aircraft on the best-performing routes.

Yeah kinda why I said, "If they pull an underperforming route, then they would have the aircraft."



flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

It would be nice to see UA add CRJ service to DEN. Back in the day UA had daily 727 service to DEN, how times have changed.

User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4465 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):

If anything, a new terminal makes it harder to get new service, as costs generally go up (see IND).

True. Though often times for smaller airports, its almost entirely funded by bonds and PFCs. Sometimes rent increases, sometimes not.


User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

What is the scheduled completion date for the new concourse?

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

I know that Allegiant is looking at CUN flights in a few years.

The current rumors are Los Angeles this year with possibly some build ups at other current cities. Then New York is rumored for next year along with buildups.

CUN is one of the cities rumored for somewhere between 2011 and 2013. The international cities seem to be planned to start about that time.

But for SBN and all the small cities there are some things to consider.

They would need a customs processing area, even if CUN finally gets preclearance status.

If passengers are cleared in the US it is expensive. FAT built a modular building for its FIS and it still runs about $2 million a year to pay for the customs staff and other FIS costs for the single flight from Mexico.

That will be a big bite for a lot of the smaller Allegiant cities.

The only other alternative is to land in the US, deplane and clear at a customs staffed airport, then reboard and head to the small city. But that would create operational problems.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4332 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
They would need a customs processing area, even if CUN finally gets preclearance status.

That's true, but it's important to remember how small it would need to be if CUN got preclearence... ever been inside the facilities at LGA or DCA? They aren't spacious (they would be unable to handle a commercial flight conveniently).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLoftypraise From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4296 times:

South Bend actually has pretty good non-stop service. I count 6 destinations on a random friday according to www.flyhere.com/sbn/ . It sure would be nice to add Mexico.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4233 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
That's true, but it's important to remember how small it would need to be if CUN got preclearence... ever been inside the facilities at LGA or DCA? They aren't spacious (they would be unable to handle a commercial flight conveniently).

But as we've discussed before about SNA, you still need a Customs approved place/plan to handle the entire plane. What if everyone on board needs to be rescreened.

I also know what was OK'd in the past for customs facilities does not work for a new location in the last few years. So existing facilities are not necessarily a good example of what would be approved today.

The "IF" Cancun gets preclearance is also a big one. How many years have we been hearing that it would?

And of course you still have the staffing cost for customs officers, with or without preclearance. That is paid for by the local airport (with or without an additional pax ticket fee) unless the airport has enough international passengers to have the federal government pay the salaries.

And the process of getting SBN or any small city designated as a landing rights or user-fee airport is not easy. It took Fresno quite a while.

I'm not saying it would not happen at SBN or elsewhere. But each airport will need to look at the costs to see if there is enough benefit. 1 or 2 CUN flights a week sounds great for an airport, but is it cost effective.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4194 times:

Just flew into SBN from CVG, and thought the concrete walkway down from the DL/CO/Allegiant gates is just a little embarassing, as if the whole thing was just an afterthought.

if SBN can actually do this, being someone who lives in the area and flies out of SBN weekly, I would be all for it...

When I worked for UAX over 10 years ago, I thought that an SBNDEN flight would be a very good seller; and same with a SBN-NYC flight...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineFreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4114 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here's another deal about SBN for Customs. The SBN airport is located in a Foreign Trade Zone. This will make it easier to get a US Customs Facility. There is a large UPS trucking facility at the airport also. The airport manager is already working the local business community in support of the customs facility.

To Dispatchguy. SBN once had UA mainline service to DEN with 727's the flights usually carried 75 passengers or so and more during ski season. The route is ripe for United Express E170 service to DEN as well as Delta Service to SLC during ski season.

They also had United service to EWR with Caravelles and B727's from UA long ago and could easily support the same level of service from CO now.

Both holding rooms and the jetways seem to be an afterthought especially holding room C's concourse which will be torn down when the new building opens which should be the spring or summer of 2010. The new building will comprise of 45,000 sq. feet with 8 jetways and room for an international gate, charter gate whatever. It will be much nicer and will cost about 8 mil which will be paid for out of the PFC money, Federal funds, and or a bond issue. It will not really raise airline fees which are some of the lowest in the area.

Adressing Load factors according to the FAA for it's size SBN has the highest average load factor at over 89% when compared to all other airports in the Great Lakes Region.


User currently offlineFreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Made a mistake the new concourse is going to cost 12 mil. and is a 2 floor type concourse with second floor boarding.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3860 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 19):
But as we've discussed before about SNA, you still need a Customs approved place/plan to handle the entire plane. What if everyone on board needs to be rescreened.

 checkmark You need a plan. It doesn't need to be pretty.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 19):
I also know what was OK'd in the past for customs facilities does not work for a new location in the last few years. So existing facilities are not necessarily a good example of what would be approved today.

AFAIK, there haven't been any facilities built just so the airport can handle pre-cleared flights in quite some time. The requirements for a GA "FIS" facility (all that would be required) are still quite minimal.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 19):

The "IF" Cancun gets preclearance is also a big one. How many years have we been hearing that it would?

 checkmark This is a key point, and it likely renders our whole discussion no more than an academic exercise.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3798 times:



Quoting Freakyrat (Reply 21):
Here's another deal about SBN for Customs. The SBN airport is located in a Foreign Trade Zone. This will make it easier to get a US Customs Facility. There is a large UPS trucking facility at the airport also. The airport manager is already working the local business community in support of the customs facility.

Don't forget its not just customs, commercial flights also involves inspection protocols from immigration, health, ag, fish and wildlife, etc.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
AFAIK, there haven't been any facilities built just so the airport can handle pre-cleared flights in quite some time. The requirements for a GA "FIS" facility (all that would be required) are still quite minimal.

Wouldn't Lansing be as good example as any, I would imagine they are more likely to get flights from a preclearance airport than from Europe.

They are spending $4 million to build a 14,000 sq ft facility.

Besides have you even known an airport not to build a facility to handle other contingencies, like international flights from non-preclearance airports.  Wink



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
25 Cubsrule : Perhaps, but they are building far more than they need. My guess is they're hoping for Mexico...
26 FATFlyer : LOL, you mean like Cancun.
27 Jetjeanes : Sbn is small,I would hope they would update the airport to handle more domestic traffic before it goes to any intl traffic. It is to small for that si
28 Jetskipper : Speaking of SBN, Air Force One just landed about 15 minutes ago for anyone close to the airport with a camera.
29 Aadfw : It will be nice for South Bend to finally have some place to purchase food once you go through secuirty. RIght now they just have vending machines wit
30 FWAERJ : Geez... even FWA, which is very similar to SBN in size, has a small snack bar/coffee shop past security! But that would be cool if SBN got CUN flight
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
More Reasons For New Air Service At FSD posted Wed Jun 4 2008 16:20:55 by Airbusaddict
Successful Tactics For Attracting New Air Service? posted Tue Jan 22 2008 03:31:58 by Sldispatcher
US - Brazil No New Air Service Deal posted Thu Jan 10 2008 16:58:17 by LAXintl
New Air Service At Airports Near MSP posted Thu Apr 19 2007 03:22:52 by Af773atmsp
New Air Service At DAY! posted Thu Jul 6 2006 23:55:47 by FlyPeoria
Salina, KS - Proposed New Air Service posted Tue Mar 28 2006 05:30:11 by B757capt
New Air SErvice To SLC & PDX posted Tue Nov 9 2004 01:54:51 by SunVAlley
Crandall & Burr's New Air Service--POGO. posted Wed Jul 28 2004 20:31:28 by Srbmod
Will BIL Ever Receive New Air Service? posted Thu Jul 15 2004 02:43:38 by AASuper83
New Air Service To BIL? posted Fri Aug 29 2003 22:10:47 by Copaair737
New Air SErvice To SLC & PDX posted Tue Nov 9 2004 01:54:51 by SunVAlley
Crandall & Burr's New Air Service--POGO. posted Wed Jul 28 2004 20:31:28 by Srbmod
Will BIL Ever Receive New Air Service? posted Thu Jul 15 2004 02:43:38 by AASuper83
New Air Service To BIL? posted Fri Aug 29 2003 22:10:47 by Copaair737