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Airbus Snubs Ryanair Offer To Bid On (400) Jets  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22720 times:

Last weeks news: Ryanair smells a bargain
http://industry.bnet.com/travel/1000669/ryanair-smells-a-bargain/

Airbus turned him down, probably remembering how O'Leary treated Boeing..

John Leahy, Airbus chief commercial officer, said: "We are not in discussions with Ryanair about aircraft. That is on the record. We don't have plans to enter a sales campaign with Ryanair, which would be very expensive and very time-consuming."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4549908e-f325-11dd-abe6-0000779fd2ac.html

I guess a little silence for now and then everybody starts negotiating again.

[Edited 2009-02-05 01:23:33]

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4361 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22610 times:

Good news for Airbus and for Boeing.

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22570 times:

Nice to see someone standing up to MOL and his bullying tactics Big grin

It'd be interesting to see what sort of deal he can get out of B then


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 22554 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
It'd be interesting to see what sort of deal he can get out of B then

I guess he'll have to "rape" Leahy for price, just like he did Baseler in 2002. Big grin



All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineClydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22401 times:

Good on Airbus!

This is great news for Boeing, now they will be able to screw Ryanair on a fair price...

What comes around, goes around.......


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22227 times:

Congratulations to John Leahy.

Airbus doesn't need an order from FR: the A320 line is packed with orders so why would they even bother negotiating with a known *hole like MOL for something which will never be a real win?

To waste time and money on him, so MOL can then use Airbus to lower the price for any 737 order he'd want to place?

To book a zero-profit deal which packs the production line of the A320 even more, making Airbus loose potential high yielding sales campaigns later this year (and beyond)?

The thing is, Airbus has no problems to fill their lines without a huge plane order from FR, heck they won't even feel the difference as they are already producing record numbers and can't keep pace with demand, yet FR will certainly feel the difference if they have no option but to talk to Boeing. As such, Mr Leahy is right: MOL is nowhere near the drivers seat he thinks he's in and he has just made that perfectly clear to him, possibly at the cost of a few hundred milions of euro for FR because now Boeing knows MOL has no other option.

I think MOL has just encountered a man more eloquent and more arrogant than himself, who has just managed to screw MOL big time, while at the same time shown the sector who's in the drivers seat.

The message from this is that when it comes to the A320, the market still is far from a buyers market and nobody but Airbus are commanding the prices and the terms for their planes.

Well done, MOL; your reputation as bigmouth is starting to be your biggest disadvantage and is costing you fortunes. Last year it was on that stupid panic decision to hedge fuel after all, right before fuel went down faster than a skydiver without a parachute, this year it may very well be your plane contract you'll be overpaying!


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5641 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22125 times:

I'm with you guys: neither Airbus NOR Boeing are desperate for this order. Thus, Airbus turning up their nose is good for BOTH companies- Boeing can get a better price this time 'round, and Airbus doesn't have to play cat and mouse with a flaky customer that nobody REALLY needs.
Don't get me wrond- in the business of selling airplanes, you have to... sell airplanes. But when the world's second largest (and some years, largest!) supplier of product basically tells you to sitck it in your ear, that's a loud and clear message.


User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1707 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22026 times:

The problem is FR want something for nothing. Boeing lost a lot of money on that deal with the 737-800s and M O L said that he wouldn't buy Airbus at the time! No wonder Airbus don't want to get involve. FR just want a bidding war and would probably end up going with Boeing in the end anyway!


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineEnginebird From United States of America, joined May 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22023 times:



Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
John Leahy, Airbus chief commercial officer, said: "We are not in discussions with Ryanair about aircraft. That is on the record.

That's what I call showing MOL the middle finger. Good on Airbus, it was about time somebody told Mr. Loudmouth where his place is. I am curious to see how he tries to put pressure on B now.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21966 times:

EADS threatened to walk away from the tanker bidding a couple of years ago if it didn't have a chance to win. That was a good strategic move. I suspect its similar here. Frankly, MOL needs Airbus more than Airbus needs him at this point.

They'll be back.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offline757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 21964 times:

I think that timing is extremely important, and in this case maybe the timing was not the best.
Despite the global crisis, both manufacturers have huge backlogs and neither is desperate for a huge order if it's not going to yield decent profits.

Far from claiming to know more than MOL on reading the market, maybe there was a perception that this was the right time to get the best deal. But maybe the time is not quite right.

Since the initial announcement indicates a time frame of about 24 months, what would be the difference if he had made the announcement 6 months from now or even a year from now? Hard to say. Maybe both A & B would have entered hard negotiations. I guess it all depends on what the situation will be then.

As the first link posted by the thread starter states, the initial deal with Boeing was done when the manufacturer WAS desperate for orders and laying off 40,000 people. The situation does not seem the same today, despite the fact that there are layoffs.

just my 2 cents...



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1217 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21927 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
Airbus doesn't need an order from FR: the A320 line is packed with orders so why would they even bother negotiating with a known *hole like MOL for something which will never be a real win?

Hmm I am not singeling you out Slz, just want to ask everyone that talks about not needing or wanting an order of 400 planes if they ever have been in any form of corporate sales environment?
For to me that comment is like calling a Boeing 737 a Airbus 380.
Its just out of this world and I have never come across any salesman that will flat out reject a record order, Never.

Now Airbus have studied the demands Ryanair sent and decided that its not possible to come to an agreement based on the information and requests that Ryanair has made.
I am sure Airbus would have preferred a situation where they would have seen a deal that made business sense but that was not the case and thats why they turned Ryanair down.
This talk about standing up to O'Leary is just wishful thinking from some.

Next move is for Ryanair to improve their specs or hope that Boeing accepts the contract that Airbus have rejected or maybe its was just another way of gaining free publicity.

I am also impressed that the most successful airline CEO in Europe is called the A word. thats just childish. O'Leary is employed by Ryanair and his job is to look our for Ryanair and Ryanair only. He has so far done a brilliant job.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineLHRlocal From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21909 times:

So, Airbus have rightly told MOL where to go, Will Boeing do the same thing? If so what next for MOL? What would they do next? Where would they go next? Would they go anywhere? I bet he could pick up a few hundred SSJ for a good price  Wink

User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21781 times:

Quoting Raffik (Reply 8):
Boeing lost a lot of money on that deal with the 737-800s

Ryanair keep selling thier older ones and book a profit each time!

[Edited 2009-02-05 03:16:58]

User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21766 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 12):
Hmm I am not singeling you out Slz, just want to ask everyone that talks about not needing or wanting an order of 400 planes if they ever have been in any form of corporate sales environment?

Most of my life. Not planes, but buildings. Sometimes the client is simply too aggressive and too disinterested in MY future prospects to be taken seriously.

If only some of the worlds bankers had looked at the quality of the debt they were buying rather than the bonus they would get from the transaction, we would not be in the mess we are in now. Looks like Leahy did just that.

Wouldn't you just love to know if McNerney picks up the phone to Leahy this morning and simply says "nice one, lunch is on me next time your in town"



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21698 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Nice to see someone standing up to MOL and his bullying tactics

So being successful is 'bullying'? I don't understand why people complain about FR negotiating with aircraft manufacturers, airports etc to get a better deal, as it just enables them to offer cheaper fares to the customer.

Quoting Clydenairways (Reply 5):

This is great news for Boeing, now they will be able to screw Ryanair on a fair price...

No they won't. Ryanair don't have to order new aircraft from Boeing, and if the price isn't right, they won't. I'm sure Embraer would be happy to offer them a good deal on a large order for E-195s.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1295 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21702 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
I'm with you guys: neither Airbus NOR Boeing are desperate for this order.

I am not with you guys. If I was Leahy I would have played the game with Ryanair even if I would know I would eventually not get the deal. In the worst case Boeing gets the order under far less attractive conditions. Even if I would offer under my own conditions this would put more pressure on Boeing than turning down the process. In that case this would weaken the big enemy (you know it is war out there...). In the best case I would get the deal under my own conditions. And I know both companies have a huge backlog but 400 frames is a very interesting number. It could easily be the number for a whole year work nowadays!

Just my opinion anyway.



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineNCB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21671 times:



Quoting LHRlocal (Reply 13):
So, Airbus have rightly told MOL where to go, Will Boeing do the same thing? If so what next for MOL? What would they do next? Where would they go next? Would they go anywhere? I bet he could pick up a few hundred SSJ for a good price

Well, there is one aircraft that could be very interesting for MOL's plans... the C-series.
Such a big order would place Bombardier on top of the 100-150 seat segment and seen the small backlog so far, Bombardier might be interested to give special launch customer rates if the order is well-spread over the 5 years 2013-2018.
The C-series has the range capability for most Ryanair routes and will have a CASM to die for. Residual value could be very interesting as well, though A320/B737 could loose it very fast if A320RS or B737RS are announced and start operating in 2020.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 12):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
Airbus doesn't need an order from FR: the A320 line is packed with orders so why would they even bother negotiating with a known *hole like MOL for something which will never be a real win?

Hmm I am not singeling you out Slz, just want to ask everyone that talks about not needing or wanting an order of 400 planes if they ever have been in any form of corporate sales environment?

I must agree with SLZ that it looks like Leahy showed MOL that he is dictating the market and I somehow feel like he's taking revenge of the 02 order where Ryanair chose for Boeing. As you say, I don't think that it would be interesting for Airbus to take a 400 aircraft order if the aircraft are sold almost at cost, when they already have a huge backlog of over 5 years, but SLZ duely describes that Leahy stating publicly that they're not interested is somehow a way to show where MOL belongs in the market.
MOL has essentially been an aircraft broker for the past 7 years, so he may not get the same sweet deals again from neither A nor B...


User currently offlineVhqpa From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1443 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21594 times:

One Word...

"KARMA"



As MOL claims he "raped" Boeing well now it's Airbus's turn to "rape" Ryanair.


The backlogs of new aircraft are already long enough as it is the last thing either manufacturer needs is a customer tieing up their production line with 400 frames but isn't prepared to pay a reasonable price.

I don't have any sympathy for FR. I hope Boeing charge FR Full list prices




Vhq



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21534 times:

I can entirely agree why Airbus are doing this, and who an blame them wanting to waste resources and money trying to win an order which they probably only have about a 1% chance of winning. Also they don't want to be used as a bargaining tool!

I also however have feelings they maybe reluctant to get into talks with Ryanair, as Airbus have had their fingers severely burnt with the easyJet order, when they switched from Boeing to Airbus.

At the time Airbus had very few LCC orders for their A32X family and wanted to gain a flagship order, from a major LCC carrier. Airbus offered easyJet such a good deal, they are still paying the price now! They offered the airline huge options on the aircraft, and easyJet are still taking up these options and with the cost of making the aircraft increasing, Airbus are now making them for easyJet at loss.

It's probably a case, they do not want to be in this situation again, being screwed right down to the bone on cost for the aircraft, and end up selling them at a loss.


User currently offlineRheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2199 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 21289 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
To waste time and money on him, so MOL can then use Airbus to lower the price for any 737 order he'd want to place?

Airbus standing shoulder to shoulder with Boeing at the cost of competition. They deny big business to humble a certain customer. At the cost of Ryanair and at the benefit of Boeing.

Here I see a small problem. Competition is to make your competitor not feel too good. The Airbus attitude allows Boeing to maximize the profits with such a deal.

Maybe its tactics. What if Airbus counters the now higher-to-be-expected Boeing offer in the last moment?


User currently offlineVictor009 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20703 times:

That O 'Leary talks though his a**, I think he deserves the comment. Firstly whats he going to 400 aircrfats?? Ryanair has been getting new aircrfats over the months and he wants to replace them???

The max ryanair may order is 100 and not 400. That man is a nutcase. Shall only believe only when the order is confirmed and hits the wires.

regards



XWB- The one to fly.
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6738 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20702 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 19):
At the time Airbus had very few LCC orders for their A32X family and wanted to gain a flagship order, from a major LCC carrier. Airbus offered easyJet such a good deal, they are still paying the price now! They offered the airline huge options on the aircraft, and easyJet are still taking up these options and with the cost of making the aircraft increasing, Airbus are now making them for easyJet at loss.

I find this hard to believe, thought this was the usual Boeing fan boys propaganda that Airbus sold a/c at a loss.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 19):
I can entirely agree why Airbus are doing this, and who an blame them wanting to waste resources and money trying to win an order which they probably only have about a 1% chance of winning. Also they don't want to be used as a bargaining tool!

Thought that was the reason why everyone wanted two OEM's or was that Airbus propaganda? Certainely did not seem to affect Airbus bidding on the US Air Force tanker, or others getting involved in the Presidential helicopter replacement.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
The message from this is that when it comes to the A320, the market still is far from a buyers market and nobody but Airbus are commanding the prices and the terms for their planes.

Couple facts with this situation, FR has a very large fleet of a/c, presently they are all Boeing, there is a cost to replace an OEM's fleet, and since the perfromance of the two a/c - A-320 and B-737 - are nearly identical, whats the incentive to change? Airbus did not become the largest OEM because it had a superior product all fan boys talks aside. FR is no different than WN, they are the customers that Airbus was built for, sole OEM clients, indeed based on Airbus type ratings going across more frames than Boeing - only B-757 and B-767 I don't include the B-737 - they can offer a client an entire range of a/c with training cost minimized. Airlines like these have a price to pay to switch from one sole source OEM to another, FR quite rightly is looking for someone other than its shareholders to shoulder or at least share the financial impact of the switch, that simply makes good business sense.

Its a negotiation, and FR has initiated the process, they have Airbus initial response, they now proceed to phase II, speculation on this site should be welcome. I offer two alternatives:
1. Modify the proposal to Airbus from a financial impact before going to Boeing
2. Leasing some Airbus a/c from a lessor and commence operating a mixed fleet

In time - give a year or two - the largest and one of the most successful carriers in Europe will once again be an attractive client to both OEM's, you never know what will happen then, in the meantime, they will be doing what is necessary to survive in a challenging environment, so far they have been very good.


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20553 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
I am not singeling you out Slz, just want to ask everyone that talks about not needing or wanting an order of 400 planes if they ever have been in any form of corporate sales environment? Its just out of this world and I have never come across any salesman that will flat out reject a record order, Never.

As some people have pointed out in the mean time, the focus today is on return, rather than volume; on profitability rather than growth; on yield rather than revenue.

Airbus has no problems filling their production slots in and their backlog for the A320 is so huge, that there won't be a problem to do so for the next couple of years, even if they don't sell a single A320 this year. As such, they are in no rush to sign up to very large longrunning commitments which they may come to reget in a couple of years already.

Look at it this way: when you run an airline and you already have a 90%+ loadfactor for the coming season throughout your network, are you really interested in signing another corporate contract which not only fills the last 10% at rock bottom prices, but also prevents you from selling individual last minute tickets at premium fare, as well as causes unavoidable costs from likely overbookings and subsequent denied boarding compensations? Probably not and certainly not at rock bottom prices!!!

As such, I think that Airbus (and Boeing too for the matter) have come to the conclusion that it is far better for them to sell 5 x 20 planes, than 1 x 100 planes, as 5 smaller deals command overall higher prices, profits, backlog security and production flexibility than the spectacular big one.

Customers wanting to place exceptionally large orders may find themselves at a disadvantage in the future even, especially in the narrow body market segment.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 11):
I am also impressed that the most successful airline CEO in Europe is called the A word. thats just childish. O'Leary is employed by Ryanair and his job is to look our for Ryanair and Ryanair only. He has so far done a brilliant job.

The most successful airline in Europe is Lufthansa and by far...

Besides, when I look at FR's results for this year and compare them to some other airlines which MOL has snubbed at in the past for being loosers, I am not so sure he's such a brilliant manager actually.

Remember it's relatively easily to have great success when you operate with a new kind of product in a booming market, but its far more difficult to stay successful in a struggling market with a mature product. The low hanging fruit has long been plucked by FR, now let's see if MOL can climb up the ladder to pluck the rest of the fruit....


User currently offlineGreenIsle From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20514 times:

"Quoting Raffik (Reply 8):
Boeing lost a lot of money on that deal with the 737-800s"

Nonsense. Sure, Boeing could potentially have gained more, but to say they lost is not true. At that time, it was great for Boeing. MOL's timing was spot on. I also might add that despite some of the sentiments here, Airbus certainly cannot afford to lose an order for this amount of aircraft. The price may be right for Airbus, but Leahy should be careful.

[Edited 2009-02-05 04:44:37]

25 Slz396 : That's the whole point! It may have looked great to commit to a huge number of narrowbodies for a single customer at the time of signing, but by the
26 OyKIE : This is interesting. It seems like RyanAir got their 738 airplane so cheap that they just use them for some time, sell them and get new ones without
27 Astuteman : It may be "war", but I'm sure neither manufacturer is interested in a fight where both parties end up "mortally wounded".... Does it? I'm sure it all
28 Pinhammond : It is worth remembering some of the facts about the current situation. In terms of passenger numbers RYR is by far the biggest airline in Europe. It i
29 Panais : Leahy is playing the game. Basically, Leahy looks at his backlog, his production capability and the price he wants to sell. The game that Leahy is pl
30 NCB : I'll add my chips on yours, mesdames, messieurs, les jeux sont fait. 149 high density, low operating cost and launch customer discounts... what else
31 Rj111 : Some years? Airbus have been the largest deliverer of planes for 6 years now. Neither is second place really though.
32 Columba : Resale value would be pretty low if no other airlines show interest in the CSeries
33 Toulouse : Agreed, and I must say I've enjoyed seeing it. I really think poor old MOL is losing the plot as times passes. Totally agree. I think people are fina
34 Babybus : Have you got some reference for this or is this just a wild guess? So that's Ryanair stuffed. At least Boeing gets to keep its 737 line open and some
35 Flyglobal : Airbus is not only protecting the budget airlines. They also need to take care of their big customers LH, AF and BA to name the largest. As the armch
36 Col : Why would you waste time and energy negotiating for something you will not get. MOL has made it quite clear he loves Boeing, they have helped put RYR
37 Gkirk : Well they must have got some kind of good deal seeing as the B737-700 is marginally cheaper to operate than the A319 (Slightly better fuel economics,
38 Parapente : The above C series thought is a nice one but.... The 69% is a fleet average. All routes differ and all routes differ at differing times of the year an
39 AAMDanny : Yep MOL just blowing hot air again. I wounder who next he will speculate about.... Embrear for some high densitiy E-jets? Canadair for some High Densi
40 Planesarecool : Right, so one manufacturer claims that they are not in negotiations with Ryanair and suddenly 'nobody wants to do business with him'? Seems like you'
41 Roseflyer : A lot of people in Seattle have a lot of respect for Ryannair and that order. It kept the 737 production rate from going down further and if the rate
42 Hatbutton : One thing I don't think has been mentioned yet is that A and B kind of did this to themselves. They have gone after orders in the past where they sacr
43 NCB : It's a bit too soon to say that other airlines won't show interest in C-series isn't it? Apologise for the exageration but it's not like Bombardier i
44 Mariner : I'm not sure what he did to himself? It's all negotiation. I doubt he expected anyone to accept his terms. If he needs aircraft, he will get them fro
45 Hatbutton : I mean he rubbed Airbus the wrong way in the past which could have led to Leahy's attitude. He's been quoted on a few occassions taking shots at Airb
46 Lightsaber : A large order would allow Embraer to change their economies of scale. One order 'for a few hundred' would change their business model forever. This w
47 Planesarecool : And I just can't see Airbus and Boeing 'cracking open the champagne' at that prospect, as somebody previously suggested.
48 Mariner : That's the point - it's business, it isn't personal. MOL is trying his chances, probably fully expecting to be turned down. You never offer what you
49 Plairbus : Couple of facts: 1.- In Asia Airbus is with over 75% in front on LCC flying Airbus. 2.- Same for latin America were Airbus is in front too. They are s
50 Iwok : In my mind the winners in this are Bombardier and Embraer. Boeing and Airbus aren't the only players in this space anymore. I'm probably the only voi
51 AmricanShamrok : We all know FR would never buy shorthaul from Airbus. It was just a tactic. btw is John Leahy Irish?
52 Hatbutton : No he's American.
53 Prebennorholm : Mr. MOL has a big mouth for sure. But he is also running a business, and he does that quite cleverly. I don't think he is that sort of *hole as it see
54 F9Animal : I hope Ryanair sticks with one fleet type, and sticks with Boeing. I have to agree with you on this. Why such bad talk about FR? They are in the busin
55 PGNCS : At the prices FR wants to pay, you need not worry: Airbus isn't going to bite, and Boeing has the opportunity to do much better on future deals with
56 PlanesNTrains : I guess I missed when GOL moved to Africa??? I agtee. Unfortunately, I would be too emotional to be an effective salesman. -Dave
57 Mariner : What he "'wants" to pay is one thing. We have no idea what price he "expects" to pay. Oh, so would I. I'm bothered about ideas of what is "fair." But
58 Bramble : Lets hope so!
59 Lightsaber : So true. This is good old fashioned haggling. If you're not thrown out of the store at least once... you didn't really try. Its not as if Airbus won'
60 Travelhound : I think the Airbus sales campaign started with this statement. Agreed. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out!
61 Jacobin777 : I got thrown out of the Guitar Center on Sunset Blvd a number of years ago for "over-negotiating"....
62 Kaitak : There have been rumours that FR is interested in an aircraft in the 130 seat range, which would bring the C-series and possible the E-195 into their s
63 NCB : I said: I think that it's too early to say that there is no resale market... there will certainly be one. IMO, the C-series and reengined Embraer's w
64 Columba : I am not saying the Cseries won´t sell -infact I hope it beocmes a huge success. What I wanted to say is that I doubt MOL will take the risk and wil
65 Breiz : It is not the first time Airbus turns down a potential customer. Some years ago, 10 I would say, Airbus refused to make an offer to El Al, publically
66 Bramble : They did use approx 400M of that to buy 29% of EI. That stock is now worth approx 200M as the EI share price dropped with FR perched on their shoulde
67 EBGflyer : They might be making money still, but how they are doing it borders unethical business practice, in my opinion. That's for the following reasons: 1)
68 Nomadd22 : Both companies best be careful. One e-mail between the two could cause anti-trust accusations. Spending a million on a proposal to cost your competito
69 MMEPHX : This one has a long way to run. Airbus are hardly likely to give up a chance of 400 frames so quickly and Boeing won't be charging FR a premium either
70 Lightsaber : You have the idea! There will be one. But historically, improvements roll in on a new airframe/engine fast enough that the first ~18 months of produc
71 NCB : You've got a point too and you're probably right in the fact that they will want to wait before ordering Cseries. On the other hand, A320/B737 backlo
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ASHCROFT: Federal Agents To Fly On Passenger Jets posted Mon Sep 17 2001 20:56:03 by Markk
Delta To Offer LAX-LHR On AF posted Tue Dec 11 2007 04:07:14 by ERJ170
Airbus Meets Pressure To Deliver On A350 posted Tue May 8 2007 16:32:00 by BoomBoom
What's It Like To Fly On The Airbus A380? posted Tue Sep 12 2006 13:43:09 by WINGS
NW Amfa To Vote On Offer! posted Sat Oct 15 2005 06:25:06 by SHUPirate1
Ryanair Wants To Offer Internet Check-In posted Thu Sep 8 2005 17:53:27 by Sabena332
America West Plans To Bid On ATA Gates posted Fri Nov 19 2004 16:40:30 by Iowaman
Ryanair's O'Leary To Bid For Aer Lingus posted Mon Jul 12 2004 13:23:57 by Widebody
Virgin America To Bid On Candlestick Naming Rights posted Sat Jun 26 2004 08:58:46 by Wilco
ASHCROFT: Federal Agents To Fly On Passenger Jets posted Mon Sep 17 2001 20:56:03 by Markk
Delta To Offer LAX-LHR On AF posted Tue Dec 11 2007 04:07:14 by ERJ170
Airbus Meets Pressure To Deliver On A350 posted Tue May 8 2007 16:32:00 by BoomBoom
What's It Like To Fly On The Airbus A380? posted Tue Sep 12 2006 13:43:09 by WINGS
NW Amfa To Vote On Offer! posted Sat Oct 15 2005 06:25:06 by SHUPirate1
Ryanair Wants To Offer Internet Check-In posted Thu Sep 8 2005 17:53:27 by Sabena332