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U2 Up Against EI New Routes At LGW  
User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4290 times:

U2 have just announced more new routes for summer 2009, including LGW to MUC, ZRH and VIE (in direct competition with the new EI base).

Also announced in the same press release are:
LGW to BJV
MAN to DLM
LYS to PSA
ORY to DBV
ORY to FAO
MXP to HER
MXP to RHO
MXP to DBV
MXP to SPU
SXF to CAG


Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4223 times:

Don't where the hell u getting the MXP routings????? aer lingus has 0% image in the milan area...so that will be a failure if they start ops from there...

User currently offlineSignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 2996 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4216 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 1):

U2 have announced new routes for the summer, including some from Milan. Other new routes compete with EI from LGW to other destinations...

As for competition, EI will struggle from LGW, as most people won't associate them with flying to mainland Europe, just to Ireland. Easyjet is more in the people's mind when looking for flights.

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4119 times:



Quoting Sam1987 (Thread starter):
including LGW to MUC, ZRH and VIE (in direct competition with the new EI base).

No surprise there and was announced on the Irish threads yesterday.

Quoting WAC (Reply 1):
aer lingus has 0% image in the milan area...so that will be a failure if they start ops from there...

A. You have misunderstood him, EI has set up a base and LGW, but the announcement he claims is from EASYJET, it is EZY who is adding new flights from Milan, not EI, his mention of EI is that EZY are starting flights from LGW to MUC, ZRH and VIE, three of the routes to be launched in April as EI inaugurates its new LGW base.
B. I don't know why you say EI has 0% image in the Milan area??? EI fly directly daily from Milan Linate (LIN) to Dublin and offer connections from LIN to JFL and BOS on their site, so they obviously get traffic from Milan connecting to the US via DUB. EI also fly 6 times weekly in winter and daily in summer between DUB and MXP (Milan Malpensa) as well as 3 times weekly to Belfast (BFS). So EI are to be seen at both LIN and MXP.

Quoting Signol (Reply 2):
As for competition, EI will struggle from LGW, as most people won't associate them with flying to mainland Europe, just to Ireland. Easyjet is more in the people's mind when looking for flights

Totally agree with you. They will need to advertise hard, as people in London will understandbly not think of checking EI when booking flights to continental Europe, but I suppose if they invest well in advertising, it will work.
On some routes, I think EI will be an attractive option. I was talking to a colleague in London the other day and he said he was already about to book his flights for his family's summer holiday on the Costa del Sol... when I asked which airport he flew from, he said LGW, I told him EI was launching a base there and flying 3 times daily to AGP (he was unaware of this, but said that as he'd never flown "Ireland's national carrier" as he put it, he'd check them out. He emailed me the other day saying he had booked all tickets with Aer Lingus as they offered the best fares and what seemed the best service at that price.
Soooo initially I was suprised when EI announced LGW, but it's a bold move (much more than Belfast) and now I think that if they play their cards right and advertise, it could work.
For example look at LGW-AGP, there seem to be three main competitors on the root:
Easyjet... their great advantage is their local brand recognition and they have a lot of daily flights on LGW-APG (I am quite fond of EZY, don't like FR at all and consider EZY to be far superior).
British Airways: They seem to have 2 daily flights, and while you'll get free food on board, their fares seem high.
Aer Lingus: The new-comer, yet a well established airline. Offers 3 daily flights to AGP. Their fares, at the moment and despite the fact they are steadily increasing, remain the cheapest for the days I checked in June. Now I think EI offers the following advantages in comparison with EZY and BA:
EI advantages of EI over EZY:
Cheap fares.
While they offer low fares, charges for checking in luggage (like EZY) and BOB, they still hold many touches of a legacy airline. Staff are usually highly professional (granted these flights will be operated with new UK based recruits, but same training as in DUB -which may in fact be done in Dublin, so standards should remain the same). They offer a frequent flyer programme and free lounge access. They offer assigned seating, and for a small extra charge offer you the chance to select your preferred seats when booking. The BOB, imho, is better than on EZY, yet EZY ain't that bad either!
EI advantages over BA:
So far, much lower fares. One extra flight per day. Many similarities to BA on s/h service, with the sole exceptions of BOB on EI and that EI no longer offer business class on their s/h flights... but this should not effect a holiday route like AGP too much.
It'll be a struggle as you say, basically to get the local travellers in the LGW area to think of checking fares on EI when booking their flights to AGP or ZRH or wherever that isn't in Ireland, but if they manage to correctly advertise that they DO fly from LGW to Europe, I think they may have a good chance. In see BA suffering more than EZY.
Of course, all this is just my 2 cents!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineProvance From Ireland, joined May 2006, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4096 times:



Quoting Signol (Reply 2):
As for competition, EI will struggle from LGW, as most people won't associate them with flying to mainland Europe, just to Ireland. Easyjet is more in the people's mind when looking for flights.

Once upon a time, EZY werent associated with flying to mainland europe either and faced a mammoth task of fighting off BA yet succeeded



EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Sorry I misunderstood..

User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

Aer Lingus has been up against Easyjet in Belfast for the past year so they know what to expect from them. At the moment Aer Lingus are actually offering lower fares than Easyjet on all routes. So Aer Lingus has lower fares and probably better service but Easyjet has the brand power.

The current Aer Lingus advertising campaign is going well from what I've seen but it could be much better, Easyjet have had adverts everywhere since the start of the year. The Aer Lingus TV campaign is due to start soon, should help get the job done.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4016 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 5):
Sorry I misunderstood..

No problem! Happens to all of us!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

What has been overlooked is that these two carriers' schedules complement each other on some routes. So rather than U2 taking traffic from EI, it could mean that together these two carriers will "grow" the overall market.

Look at LGW to MUC and ZRH as a prime example. Canny travellers will buy one-way tickets and take the carrier which suits them the most on a particular flight sector.

For example, with LGW-MUC you will see that EI only flies early and late whereas U2 operates at lunchtime ex-LGW with a teatime return ex-MUC.

With LGW-ZRH you see that EI departs LGW at 1240 and returns at 1615 whereas U2 leaves LGW at 1650 and comes back at 2005.

But the main problem is with EI establishing its name both here and in mainland Europe. How many local travellers in Munich, Zurich or Vienna would realise that EI flies to LGW ? They would automatically consider LH, LX, OS, BA even U2 ... but EI ?


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8507 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3870 times:
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Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
the main problem is with EI establishing its name both here and in mainland Europe. How many local travellers in Munich, Zurich or Vienna would realise that EI flies to LGW ? They would automatically consider LH, LX, OS, BA even U2 ... but EI ?

- Correct, EI are going to have to invest significant funds in advertising to create enough awareness that they don't just fly to Ireland, it can be done, but it will be expensive.



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User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

I didn't realize until I clicked on the thread that U2 was the code for Easyjet. I was wondering why the band was complaining!

Now that I know, I'm surprised it's Easyjet competing when they have such a large operation at STN. I would think BA would battle it out. There is enough room for two carriers on most of these routes, so EI shouldn't worry.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3748 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 10):
Now that I know, I'm surprised it's Easyjet competing when they have such a large operation at STN. I would think BA would battle it out. There is enough room for two carriers on most of these routes, so EI shouldn't worry.

I believe U2's LGW operation is now larger than its one at STN.

BA "won't battle it out." BA has been running down its LGW operation in recent times. In fact BA is bothering less and less to compete on short-haul routes.


User currently offlineGAWZU From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3736 times:



Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
I believe U2's LGW operation is now larger than its one at STN.

Yup, both easyJet's LGW and LTN bases are significantly larger than its STN op. LGW is by some way the largest of the three.


User currently offlineVald From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

Bono & the lads should just stick to the singing
& leave the flying to Aer-lingus!  laughing 


User currently offlineAdriaticflight From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 515 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

I'm so happy at the news of U2's expansion in Split and Dubrovnik. Its really nice news. Berlin-dubrovnik is a great new route. And Milan-Split and Milan-dubrovnik is excellent too! There is 0 competion on these routes, deep down i knew that an airline would get in on this market sometime. Also the Paris-dubrovnik route will be a hit. All in all nice moves from U2 regarding Croatian market!

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3511 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 3):
For example look at LGW-AGP, there seem to be three main competitors on the root:
Easyjet... their great advantage is their local brand recognition and they have a lot of daily flights on LGW-APG (I am quite fond of EZY, don't like FR at all and consider EZY to be far superior).
British Airways: They seem to have 2 daily flights, and while you'll get free food on board, their fares seem high.
Aer Lingus: The new-comer, yet a well established airline. Offers 3 daily flights to AGP. Their fares, at the moment and despite the fact they are steadily increasing, remain the cheapest for the days I checked in June. Now I think EI offers the following advantages in comparison with EZY and BA:

Monarch Scheduled is also a major airline on LGW-AGP



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlinePinhammond From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

I seriously worry about EI's decision making in respect of some of these routes. Just take LGW-AGP. EasyJet is both the dominant carrier at Gatwick and the dominant carrier at Malaga (in respect of all routes from each airport). To tackle someone like that is like walking into the lion's den. The lion will fight and EI will get mauled. The LGW-AGP market is certainly large but it is hugely competitive. BA is scheduling 3 flights per day and has a good reputation at the higher end of the market and good Club class loads. EZY is scheduling up to 7 flights per day. Monarch which has an excellent reputation both in LON and AGP with by far the best on board product has up to 3 flights per day with large aircraft at weekends. On top of that TOM operates and they have a good reputation for both price and service. So EI is planning to go into a market in which the established operators currently plan at least 14 flights per day. At the very best for them the traffic will divide pro rata to frequency. This will mean that EI will at best get 3/17ths of the traffic. That in a market which is unlikely to grow in 2009. It looks to be a suicide mission for them.

User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

Aer Lingus shrugs off EasyJet Gatwick attack

Quote:
Aer Lingus has described EasyJet’s move to compete on three routes being set up by the Irish carrier from Gatwick as a “panic” reaction.
Corporate affairs director Enda Corneille said Aer Lingus had big plans for Gatwick in addition to the network of new European routes being established from April.

Responding to EasyJet’s move to go head-to-head on three of its new routes (see previous TravelMole story), he said: "This is clearly a sign of panic from Easyjet, which is obviously rattled by the Aer Lingus announcement of new European services from Gatwick commencing on April 6.

“EasyJet have been asleep at the wheel in the own backyard for some time now and their rushed announcement today is just what you'd expect from a carrier that’s grown complacent over time."

Corneille added: "We welcome the competition because at the end of the day our customers will be the winners. They'll be able to fly to Munich, Vienna and Zurich with Aer Lingus in the knowledge that they will get a better price at a far better departure time and enjoy a more superior onboard experience.”

He revealed that 75,000 seats have already been sold on the new Gatwick network before the first flights depart Gatwick to Malaga in April.

"We've got big plans for Gatwick and, with further route announcements imminent; we would not be surprised to see more copy-cat activity from our competitors," added Corneille.

http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1134472.php

So a few interesting points:

- 75,000 seats booked
- Big plans for the base
- Route announcements imminent

Shamrock350


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3396 times:



Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
I believe U2's LGW operation is now larger than its one at STN.

You're right, it is!

Quoting Vald (Reply 13):
Bono & the lads should just stick to the singing
& leave the flying to Aer-lingus!

My thoughts exactly, when I first read the title of this thread.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3249 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):
Monarch Scheduled is also a major airline on LGW-AGP

Thanks. Forgot about Monarch Scheduled.

Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 16):
I seriously worry about EI's decision making in respect of some of these routes

This was my initial sentiment, they're mad! Not saying I don't still share this feeling, but it's good to see a bold move from EI. Now if their management can just pull of good advertising, they may make a go of it. Also did XL not previously do LGW-AGP (don't know, just asking, but if so, there's a void to fill). Also we all know BA is downscaling its s/h LGW network.

Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 16):
The lion will fight and EI will get mauled

Possibly, and possible not. I see EI is suddenly taking a more aggressive approach in its press releases a little bit à la Ryanair, and mentioning its competitors it didn't do previously, as seen in the statement published by Shamrock350.

Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 16):
BA is scheduling 3 flights per day

For summer 09, from what I can see on ba.com there are only 2 daily flights, with the exception that this is effectively, as you say, increased to 3 daily for July to September, reverting to 2 daily in October. EI operating 3 daily from its launch in April right through to the end of the summer season.

Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 16):
has a good reputation at the higher end of the market and good Club class loads

That I agree 100% with and I think while BA remain on this route, BA will continue to retain a certain higher end of the market as you say, but this would appear to be an advantage they have over all other carriers competing on this particular market.

Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 16):
EasyJet is both the dominant carrier at Gatwick and the dominant carrier at Malaga (in respect of all routes from each airport).

That's fascinating, would never have imagined that and see Easyjet was effecticely the main operator at AGP in 08 with 7.723 departures! 2nd place was Air Nostrum with 4.935 departures! Aer Lingus comes in 14th place at AGP with 1.169 departures, beating BA who came in in 17th position with 855 departures. AENA.es provides great statistics.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3177 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 19):
Also did XL not previously do LGW-AGP (don't know, just asking, but if so, there's a void to fill).

They had two weekly flights last summer. It should also be noted that Monarch are downgrading their LGW-AGP flights from 19x weekly to 13x weekly at peak season from last year, and easyJet are operating mostly A319 flights, as apposed to a vast mixture of 319/320/321 last Summer, and Thomson Airways will have two fewer weekly flights than TOM/FCA last year. So there are a few gaps there.

Aer Lingus have had quite a lot of publicity in the Crawley area, mainly because they're a company creating local jobs while many are being lost. If they've already sold 75,000 seats as their website suggests, they can be positive about their base at Gatwick, and I'm sure further expansion will follow.


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24912 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

I wonder whether EI would consider any UK domestic flights from Gatport Airwick?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

Only the trunk routes could sustain EI's Airbus's - EDI, GLA, MAN, JER. On the Scottish routes depends if they want to compete more with Easyjet or try and avoid them. I certainly couldn't see EZY doing nothing if EI started those routes. JER would be another possibility, but could LGW-JER sustain BA, BE and EI? And as for MAN, could it sustain two airlines? More suited to BE IMO

[Edited 2009-02-06 04:34:22]


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User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3022 times:



Quoting Signol (Reply 2):
EI will struggle from LGW, as most people won't associate them with flying to mainland Europe, just to Ireland.



Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
BA has been running down its LGW operation in recent times.

It looks as if EI will codeshare with BA on their LGW ops so they benefit from being able to tap into the existing BA market.

EI want to base 4 aircraft in LGW. Currently they have sourced 2 ex IB A320 (not sure if used or cancelled orders) which will be cabin fitted to EI spec in SNN and ready for April,with another A320 due for delivery from Airbus next month I think.


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