Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AZ - Unions Announce A Series Of Strikes  
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

search didnt bring up anything so I assume not posted so far.

just reborn as "Nuova Alitalia" and obviously still the same old habits - ANPAC "Unione Piloti" started the procedures for the first of a series of strikes by the Alitalia's pilots. The strikes will begin starting from March.
Agreements between CAI and the Pilot Unions are still not signed as "all attempts to restart the negotiations have been refused by the management and this situation is generating a mistrust climate by the pilots, sensed in negative way by the customers that is leaving the Alitalia and AirOne's airplanes".
Full release (in Italian) under the title "Alitalia - CAI: Anpac UP, iniziate le procedure per dare esecuzione ad una serie di giornate di sciopero dei Piloti" on the ANPAC Homepage

Interesting also what ANPAC says:
Purtroppo questo clima viene chiaramente percepito in modo negativo anche dalla clientela che, sempre più numerosa, sta abbandonando gli aerei CAI, sia Alitalia che Airone; il coefficiente di riempimento degli aeromobili, punto centrale e qualificante del Piano Industriale CAI, è infatti in caduta libera e si attesta ora intorno al 39% - in short - ANPAC and UP say that the load factor of AZ is only about 39%. People are not "trusting the new AZ and the public is of the opinion that the new AZ is unreliable".


TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5468 times:



Quoting TW741 (Thread starter):
People are not "trusting the new AZ and the public is of the opinion that the new AZ is unreliable".

So we'll go out on strike just to prove Alitalia's really not to be trusted.  Yeah sure



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

So instead of saving AZ... all that may very well happen is Air One, a perfectly functioning company, gets dragged down into this mess as well!

The stupidity of AZ unions never ceases to amaze me. I'm guessing they're figuring now they've absorbed Air One they've got move breathing room... but they've totally forgotten all euroope is full of other high quality viable competitiors!


Well... looks like LH made the right bet by sending their own A319s to milan. How long before we see an LH a346 there? Or even the rumoured 77Ws?


User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5391 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 2):
looks like LH made the right bet by sending their own A319s to milan

and LH Italia pushes extremely a high quality product. According ATW LH Italia and LH/EN have together more than 250 weekly departures out of MXP in summer to European destinations whereas AZ will not even have 100 weekly inner European departures out of MXP (domestic excluded).

And it wouldn't be Italy - LH Italia is obviously fighting for their own AOC but it seems the Italian state "has no rush" issuing one though all necessary steps from LH-Italia have been fulfilled.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 1):
So we'll go out on strike just to prove Alitalia's really not to be trusted.

you say it - then the ANPAC stated load factor is not 39% but down to 3,9% which means the crew and some nonrevs....



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

I have to say that this is no surprise.

Does nothing EVER change at AZ.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Hand them all a pistol with one bullet in it. Long term the results will be the same.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5105 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Ugh.  sarcastic 

Irrational behavior like this hurts the cause for all unions, including those who actually have their workers' interests in mind.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

If I were running AF/KL, I would pull out my investment in the New Alitalia as fast as I could and let them flounder. A few weeks ago the defenders of Alitalia were defending the new way at the New Alitalia and saying this would not happen as fines would result. Guess what, no fines and it is happening again.. How do they justify this new action?

User currently offlineCurlyheadboy From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

You don't know how it sucks having to fly them because there are no alternatives on some routes  Yeah sure


If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2756 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

That's the Alitalia way to celebrate a new lease on life, I guess. Why this airline has been tolerated by the Italian public and government for so long is beyond me. I hate to see Air One dragged into this pit.

User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4827 times:



Quoting TW741 (Reply 3):
And it wouldn't be Italy - LH Italia is obviously fighting for their own AOC but it seems the Italian state "has no rush" issuing one though all necessary steps from LH-Italia have been fulfilled.

They should obtain it next September or October. For the moment they don't need it, they can fly in Europe and to the USA without an Italian AOC.


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Bet that makes for a lot of happy customers (at LHI) and a flight of disgruntled new whatever repeat customers to LHI.

Well done new thingy. I love your old ways, although I am angry that I can never fly Air One, a decent airline unlike the new/old/whatever Alititties. Bring on more frequencies and routes, LHI!

No wonder (and happy to see) FR is growing so aggressively in Italy.


User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

Don't they have a strike every month now??? It's like a monthly event for them, and the sad thing is that it only hurts them. I can be live that AZ has survive this long, they should of died with PAN AM and Eastern..  banghead   banghead   banghead   banghead 

User currently offlineAclco From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

I know, it's really incredible.

And also, just a curiosity for the one who are not italian, here is a photo of a nice F/A during one of the many strikes before the "new" AZ protesting with a loop-rope around the neck..she was on all the national news that day..

http://static.blogo.it/gossipblog/ma...-giletti-e-la-hostess/giletti4.jpg

and some days after..
http://www.rumors.it/notizie/gennaio09/0902/foto/nuovo-9.jpg

yes! she suddenly changed her mind and readily gone at the italian big brother!!
She asked for a holiday period at the "new" AZ entering in the big b.'s house, and after even pretending not to be dismissed from the company!!

I think that's a good representation of AZ's work force..at least a vast majority of..


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Perhaps she has found her true vocation.  Smile

User currently offlineAirproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4211 times:



Quoting TW741 (Thread starter):
"all attempts to restart the negotiations have been refused by the management and this situation is generating a mistrust climate by the pilots, sensed in negative way by the customers that is leaving the Alitalia and AirOne's airplanes"

Aah... Ok but I honestly missed the point between unions negotiations and the fact customers are turning away from AZ...! However I can clearly see the link between customers leaving AZ and unjustifiable strikes...!!
In a more serious note, unions, as we define it nowadays, are nothing but the cancer of the airlines... When we'll realise unions have put more people on the dole and made more damages than anything else on our companies, maybe we'll open our eyes... maybe...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3478 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 11):
No wonder (and happy to see) FR is growing so aggressively in Italy.

No surprise. Is U2 growing their too?

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 12):
they should of died with PAN AM and Eastern..

The union analalogy is appropriate.

I'm fine with unions.. if they're not stupid. Exactly where is their bargaining power? Zero. All they can do is try to kill off Air Zombie (AZ).

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

I suspected that the legacy culture of Alitalia might bring down the Air One/Alitalia entity. Now that the market has turned down, I expect it to happen. IMO it is largely a question of how long it will take for Alitalia to burn through its financial injection.

User currently offlineAirproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3385 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
I'm fine with unions.. if they're not stupid.

"stupid unions" is a euphemism!



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineDangould2000 From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

IMO, there is not much (if any) hope for saving AZ.

the government should allow AZ to disappear completely and then start over a completely new airline (with a completely new workforce) much like Sabena/Brussels Airlines.



Next Flights:- wherever the airline sends me
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2937 times:



Quoting Airproxx (Reply 18):

stupid unions" is a euphemism!


You are right Stupid Unions, All they do is take your money and make trouble.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 21):
Quoting Airproxx (Reply 18):


stupid unions" is a euphemism!


You are right Stupid Unions, All they do is take your money and make trouble.

Depends on the union. Depends on the country.

I feel sorry for the Air One employees whose future may be ruined by the Alitalia employees who have been taken on board.

[Edited 2009-02-07 12:39:54]

User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

[quote=Art,reply=21]Depends on the union. Depends on the country.

I feel sorry for the Air One employees whose future may be ruined by the Alitalia employees who have been taken on board.

You are right Art. al the Unions here in the United States are nothing but Thugs. In Italy I don't
know it that well but you can see the track record of AZ and they have't made any money since the 90's, so how has the union helped the AZ employees ???????


User currently offlineNCB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2602 times:



Quoting Art (Reply 21):
I feel sorry for the Air One employees whose future may be ruined by the Alitalia employees who have been taken on board.

I wouldn't worry too much for them, Lufthansa Italia will be there to catch them up. Lufthansa has played smart and may end up getting the Italian market all for itself.

As to Alitalia employees, unfortunately at this point they are putting the rope around their own necks. Until when will the airline last? Will it make it to the next winter?

At a LF below 50%, Alitalia and Air One combined, unfortunately, it will be a matter of months.
AF better start pulling out their investments.

An interesting chess game.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting NCB (Reply 23):
At a LF below 50%, Alitalia and Air One combined, unfortunately, it will be a matter of months.
AF better start pulling out their investments.

Ghad... that requires massive downsizing. How sure are you of the 50%LF?

LH, FR, and others must be drooling.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
25 Kiwiandrew : if this is true what is really incredible is that this miserable load factor is has been 'achieved' on a much reduced capacity over last year
26 LAXintl : I don't have any specifics however heard there has been a massive decline in bookings as people I suspect have clearly shied away from AZ with other
27 Post contains links NCB : Quite sure. There are different numbers doing the round on the net. Here are official November numbers for comparison: AP: 59.8% AZ: 58.2% http://fil
28 Kiwiandrew : I realise that those load factor figures are for November rather than Dec or Jan but they are below 60% rather than below 50% ( still pretty awful of
29 EK413 : What I find amazing is that fact the world is suffering one of the worst economic times and the unions and workers are risking to lose their jobs! Ha
30 NCB : Even AZ management don't know them yet... so it's going to be pretty hard to get them for now. Now, I realise that
31 Kiwiandrew : I can believe that they have not yet been released ( probably because they dont want to ) , but I cannot believe that management doesnt know them yet
32 NCB : It really takes a few days to process a weekly report for an airline the size of New AZ. Daily reporting has little to no significance as variations
33 Kiwiandrew : and December ???
34 TW741 : the "new AZ" (the CAI version) had its first day of operation on January 13th 2009. The present load factor, as stated by ANPAC/Unioni Piloti, is onl
35 Post contains links WAC : 43% was average load factor http://www.corriere.it/economia/09_f...-f692-11dd-9c7e-00144f02aabc.shtml The interview goes onto say that the AZ will mak
36 Stgs1988 : ... Alitalia will begin a series of strikes ... It seems as they already have planned to strike... It sounds very weird.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AZ Unions Decline First Contract Offer posted Mon Sep 8 2008 04:33:36 by Beaucaire
GE Aviation To Announce Launch Of New Engine posted Fri Jul 11 2008 07:46:18 by ENU
Airbus To Announce Sale Of Six Sites posted Thu Nov 29 2007 15:20:47 by Scbriml
AZ Chairman Resigns Ahead Of Meeting posted Wed Aug 1 2007 04:52:33 by Art
July 1st - Series Of New Flights (Roundup) posted Sun Jul 1 2007 22:43:51 by B742
Boeing Announce Sale Of 6 X 777Fs posted Thu Apr 26 2007 17:07:08 by PanAm_DC10
Brand New Series Of Air Crash Investigation posted Sun Feb 4 2007 18:10:03 by 9V
New Series Of "Air Disaster" On Nat Geog. posted Fri Feb 2 2007 20:01:41 by Kaitak
Air Deccan Today Announce Order Of 20 A320's posted Sat Dec 24 2005 15:21:03 by Toulouse
New Series Of "Airport" On BBC1 Tomorrow posted Tue Mar 22 2005 11:18:17 by Jaspike