Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Will Happen To All The AA A300 Pilots?  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4456 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13048 times:

With the retirement of the A300s, what's going to happen with the Captains and First Officers who fly these aircraft?

Do they move "down" to 757/767 or ""up" to 777?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6899 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13007 times:



Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
Do they move "down" to 757/767 or ""up" to 777?

Depends on seniority.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12436 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12919 times:

As SEPilot says, it depends very much on seniority; captains would move either to 767s or to 777s, whereas FOs would either move onto another widebody type or get their first commands, either on 738s or MD80s.

When are the last A300s retiring?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12768 times:

All the pilots that fly the A300 will bid over to whatever a/c they want and that they're seniority can hold. In other words, they'll create a wish list and they'll get whatever their seniority can hold, which could include upgrading and downgrading from FO to CA or CA to FO if they wanted.

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4456 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12484 times:

Thanks all for the answers so far.

I suppose the pilots will need to "learn how to fly" whatever new plane they end up getting. Since AA only has one Airbus type in the fleet, it seems like there will be quite a difference in the Boeing and MD aircraft that they will ultimately end up flying.

How long does that training take?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12331 times:

Yes, they'll return to training. The length of time depends on the individual airlines training programs. Each airline has a different way of doing basically the same things. Transitioning to a new type can take anywhere from 1-2 months give or take.

User currently offlineE38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12158 times:



Quoting N62NA (Reply 4):
I suppose the pilots will need to "learn how to fly" whatever new plane they end up getting.

How long does that training take?

With the experience level of the pilots who fly the A-300 for American, transitioning to another type of aircraft, even one made by a different manufacturer (Boeing/McDonnell Douglas vs. Airbus) is not a big deal.

A normal "initial" training program would consist of groundschool (aircraft systems), procedural training, simulators, and Initial Operating Experience (IOE) and would last approximately six weeks.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12146 times:

could they get a part time job flying for Tiger Australia flying A320's ?

Maybe not on domestic flights but international ones ?

Mind u, the pay would be a lot, LOT less, but that's the future, at least for next 2 to 7 years.


User currently offlineE38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12099 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 7):
could they get a part time job flying for Tiger Australia flying A320's ?

Why in the world would they even consider doing something like that? When American removes the A-300s from their fleet, all the A-300 pilots are contractually entitled to bid to fly another aircraft in American's fleet (whatever their seniority can hold) and they will still be employed full time by American. Their employment status is not going to change.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3761 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11860 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting N62NA (Reply 4):
Since AA only has one Airbus type in the fleet, it seems like there will be quite a difference in the Boeing and MD aircraft that they will ultimately end up flying.

Yes, but keep in mind that it is the A300 that there is at American, not the A320, A330 or A340. What I mean to say is the A300 was designed with a conventional control yoke with mechanical input , it was Airbus's first model, as opposed to a side stick FBW control. Flying the A300 works almost the same way as flying any Boeing or MD aircraft. So switching from the A300 to any Boeing aircraft at AA won't be too much a problem like it would be in switching from an A330 to a B767 or B777.
An A300 pilot switching to the A330, it would take him or her a lot of training and ground course, more than it would take in moving from the A320 to the A330 and/or A340.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
When are the last A300s retiring?

As far as I know the last flight is Aug 24th of this year, from MIA to JFK. I want to be on it but I don't buy the ticket now because it can still change in the weeks ahead. I am almost sure that by Aug 25th they will all be removed from pax service at American, aa.com shows no more A300 aircraft as of Aug 25th on the JFK-MIA route.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineLuniew From Poland, joined Feb 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11782 times:

Since most of the pilots didn't start on A300, I'm sure they were flying Boeing 737/757, McDonnell Douglas aircraft before they got on to an A300. So they just might need a refresher course and they are back in business.

Tom


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11764 times:



Quoting N62NA (Reply 4):
How long does that training take?

Assuming no issues, the "long" program is 4 weeks (a 5-day work week). Two weeks ground school and two weeks simulator training. If you were recently on the plane you are training on, you might get a "short" course which could be as little as 4 days, but most are 1-2 weeks.

Quoting E38 (Reply 8):
When American removes the A-300s from their fleet, all the A-300 pilots are contractually entitled to bid to fly another aircraft in American's fleet (whatever their seniority can hold) and they will still be employed full time by American.

The more precise term is "displaced" to another "bid status" and yes, it is by whatever your seniority will hold anywhere in the AA system. A displacement does NOT require there to be a job opening to where you want to go. If your seniority permits you to hold the position (job), you get the position and the most junior person is then "displaced." Since AA has been slowly recalling pilots I do not believe any of the recently recalled (most junior in the system) pilots will be furloughed again. But that's JMHO.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineJETA1863 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10306 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 7):
could they get a part time job flying for Tiger Australia flying A320's ?

Maybe not on domestic flights but international ones ?

Mind u, the pay would be a lot, LOT less, but that's the future, at least for next 2 to 7 years.

I suppose they could, but if an American (citizenship) pilot decides to be employed by a foreign carrier they become what is called an expatriate (expat for short). While there is no problem with this, many expats would be drawn to higher paying gigs. I have a friend that few for China Airlines for about ten years during which he lived in Oklahoma City and was based out of LAX. He would commute (jumpseat) to LAX, fly a revenue trip to Hong Kong, then another revenue trip back to LAX and be done for the week and have the next week off! His decision to become an expat and fly for China Airlines presented him the opportunity to aquire a high seniority number thus enabeling him to bid, and be awarded, this route continuously. This was an extremely enjoyable and lucrative job move for him.



Regardless of the issue at hand, always analyze BOTH sides of a situation and ONLY THEN make an educated decision.
User currently offlineJetBlasted From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

Well, isn't it possible that some A300 pilots are already certified as captains or FO's on AA's Boeings or MD-80s? Some of these guys didn't always fly the A300.

User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8313 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
FOs would either move onto another widebody type or get their first commands, either on 738s or MD80s.

If they aren't type rated shouldn't they achieve quite some hours as FO before that ? just guessing.


User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8154 times:



Quoting N62NA (Reply 4):
I suppose the pilots will need to "learn how to fly" whatever new plane they end up getting. Since AA only has one Airbus type in the fleet, it seems like there will be quite a difference in the Boeing and MD aircraft that they will ultimately end up flying.

Most have already flown the other equpiment since you pretty much "work your way up" in this business. In any case they will have to be current/qualified in what ever aircraft they bid/bump to. I am not sure if they can stay current in fleet types other than the one they currently hold a bid for or not. I am sure that is a contractual issue and at a minimum a resource issue.

Quoting Luniew (Reply 10):
Since most of the pilots didn't start on A300, I'm sure they were flying Boeing 737/757, McDonnell Douglas aircraft before they got on to an A300.

Depends on how they got the bid, as others have said it is determined by seniority, it is not uncommon for an FO to be a very junior pilot seniority wise.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 11):
The more precise term is "displaced" to another "bid status" and yes, it is by whatever your seniority will hold anywhere in the AA system. A displacement does NOT require there to be a job opening to where you want to go. If your seniority permits you to hold the position (job), you get the position and the most junior person is then "displaced." Since AA has been slowly recalling pilots I do not believe any of the recently recalled (most junior in the system) pilots will be furloughed again. But that's JMHO.

He would know!


User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7382 times:



Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
With the retirement of the A300s, what's going to happen with the Captains and First Officers who fly these aircraft?

The pilots will be taken to VCV and/or Marana and put into long-term storage.  Wow!


User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 925 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7382 times:

Just curious to the original poster how did you come up with the assumption that switching to the 767 is a "downgrade" and 777 is an "upgrade".

User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6403 times:



Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 17):
Just curious to the original poster how did you come up with the assumption that switching to the 767 is a "downgrade" and 777 is an "upgrade".

Actually, for an A300 captain, a move to the 767 would be a downgrade. I believe their paygrade is determined by how many seats are on board, and the A300 has 267 seats. I think the 767-300 has about 226. Not sure how many the 777 has, but I do believe from a pay grade scale it is very close to the A300.


User currently offlineA999 From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Before flying anything else they have to walk out of VCV/Marana........(or maybe hitch a ride on a NW/DL DC9).

Sorry, couldn't resist.


User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6333 times:



Quoting Wannabe (Reply 18):
I believe their paygrade is determined by how many seats are on board

So if a cpt spends his career in dc9/md80, then 747, and then goes back to md80 before retiring, do you think his payroll would flex following the type he flies ? Why there are still pilots on the embraers, fokkers and atr is a mistery to me, then.

Quoting Wannabe (Reply 18):
the A300 has 267 seats. I think the 767-300 has about 226. Not sure how many the 777 has, but I do believe from a pay grade scale it is very close to the A300.

Assume is the double. Do you think it doubles the payroll ? I think it's about seniority and flown hours, not people brought around...


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

Everyone, please read what AAR90 wrote. It is correct and easy to grasp.

Quoting JetBlasted (Reply 13):
Well, isn't it possible that some A300 pilots are already certified as captains or FO's on AA's Boeings or MD-80s?

Sure, but it's irrelevant. They will get whatever school they need to make them current and qualified before they start flying their new aircraft.

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 14):
If they aren't type rated shouldn't they achieve quite some hours as FO before that ? just guessing.

Don't guess; you'd be wrong. They will get whatever school they need to become current and qualified on their new aircraft. You need no FO time on a given aircraft to check out as a Captain on it. That's what school and OE is for.

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 20):
Why there are still pilots on the embraers, fokkers and atr is a mistery to me, then.

Because those pilots don't work for American. Not everyone gets to fly a 747 due to who employs them, their seniority, or their personal preferences.


User currently offlineJETA1863 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6086 times:



Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 16):
The pilots will be taken to VCV and/or Marana and put into long-term storage. Wow!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I thought this was hilarious! Good one! hah



Regardless of the issue at hand, always analyze BOTH sides of a situation and ONLY THEN make an educated decision.
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6065 times:



Quoting Wannabe (Reply 18):
I believe their paygrade is determined by how many seats are on board, and the A300 has 267 seats. I think the 767-300 has about 226.

At AA, pay for a A-300 captain and a 767 captain is the same, 179 per hour.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6039 times:



Quoting E38 (Reply 8):
Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 7):
could they get a part time job flying for Tiger Australia flying A320's ?

Why in the world would they even consider doing something like that? When American removes the A-300s from their fleet, all the A-300 pilots are contractually entitled to bid to fly another aircraft in American's fleet (whatever their seniority can hold) and they will still be employed full time by American. Their employment status is not going to change.

Your assuming that AA will survive in its current state.

Suggest that AA will have to shrink massively to survive & thousands & thousands will lose their jobs in coming depression.

Govts don't seem to have a clue, esp in USA.


25 REALDEAL : R u guys aware that their is a worsening worldwide recession which is heading for depression. Soon China will own most of the USA. Maybe they could g
26 JETA1863 : I was merely relating a story of a friend I know. Even with the worldwide recession, I'm sure several senior captains aren't quite ready to fly for f
27 N62NA : Well, besides the pay issue, the 777 is the "Queen of the Fleet" at the moment at AA, hence the "upgrade" reference. Plus, the 777 has 3 classes of s
28 AAR90 : "UP" and "DOWN" are relative terms. Before you can determine if a move from A300 to B767 is an UPgrade or DOWNgrade, you have to specify what grading
29 Max777geek : Not sure how it works over there, but In Italy I would expect an increase in any case. A senior who achieves more years within the same company will
30 AAR90 : At AA, pilot pay scales are based upon equipment type (MD80, B738, B752, B762ER, A306, B763ER, B772 in accending order] and years of service [max'd o
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Will Happen To Fleet If AA/NWA Merge? posted Mon Jul 3 2000 00:18:19 by JFK742
What Will Happen To The Boeing Factory In Renton? posted Sun Jul 8 2007 13:56:34 by Fairchild24
What Will Happen To AA 767 At LAX? posted Wed Sep 20 2006 15:38:08 by AAFan
What Will Happen To The Old Bangkok Airport posted Thu Sep 7 2006 15:07:14 by NewYorkCityBoi
What Will Happen To The "Pink Plane"? posted Sun Feb 26 2006 20:18:18 by DL4EVR
What Will Happen To The BAX Fleet? posted Fri Nov 18 2005 10:19:52 by MD 11
What Will Happen To The US/UA Codeshare? posted Mon May 23 2005 10:22:18 by SendMEtoLAS
What Will Happen To The Origonal A380 posted Thu May 5 2005 21:55:30 by Snn2003
What Will Become Of All The 767's Belonging To NH? posted Thu Feb 17 2005 09:07:55 by Ktachiya
What Will Happen To ATR After The -42 And -72? posted Thu Dec 9 2004 22:29:21 by Capital146