Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DC9 Pushback Using Reverse Thrust!  
User currently offlineTiktokJAKE From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17737 times:

hI guyz,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID3jfc39x3E&feature=related
never thought i would see that  Smile

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlypig687 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17732 times:

I was on an AirTran flight leaving really late out of ATL, big suprise i know, and the 717 used its reverse thrusters for a 'Drive Back'. First and only time I have ever seen/been on a plane that did that.

User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17693 times:

We used to do these all the time at NW. They were called "powerbacks." DC9's and 727's only. When I worked in MEM, it was allowed on all but a couple of gates. What's really fun is when they powerback out, and then turn.

NW discontinued this policy a year or two ago, and now they're not allowed anywhere on the system...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17608 times:

They still do that? One and only time in my experience was ValuJet , ATL flight to SAV. They had a bad reputation by that time already and my first thought, when I realized the power push back was to get the hell outta that aircraft.

Can't remember of they did that on the return flight SAV ATL as well.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17578 times:

This was the norm for NW in DTW at the Worldgateway for a few years, as at many airports. They stopped doing it in 2005/2006 as a fuel saving measure.

Gates had to be "certified" for powerbacks; meaning ample clear space, etc. They didn't do powerbacks much at the old DTW terminal because the alleyways and gate areas were too tight. At the new gateway, all the time and it would get loud in the parking garage. A DC-9 doing a powerback would set off numerous car alarms.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17555 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 2):
NW discontinued this policy a year or two ago, and now they're not allowed anywhere on the system...

Yep, it was raised as one of the fuel savings ideas that pilots submitted. They stopped this almost 4 years ago unfortunately, they were fun and certainly made pushing back and getting going faster.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17547 times:

EA did this for ages at ATL as SOP -- which enraged the unions and lead to the famous incident in which Charlie B nearly got run over by a 727!


I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11375 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17556 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Damon Marcus Lewis



Powerback in action in the snow.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3033 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17509 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Seen it done on DC-9s (AC EA NW), MD-80s (AS) and 727s (EA and Royal)... and once by a C-17 but thats a different story hehe.

Ironically Eastern started using powerbacks as a cost saving measure (since NW stopped using them as a fuel saving measure). They tested it with every type in the fleet, though limited it's use to the narrowbodies in the end (including the 757, at least initially). There is even the story of how a certain union leader tried to stop a test (story varies as to what type it was, most people say it was with the L1011) and got jetblasted for his trouble.

I can't imagine seeing an L1011 powerback, that must of been an incredible sight!



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17500 times:

Powerbacks are cool, yes. Oddly, I find the marshaller to be even cooler. Sadly I've never gotten to use that signal before, and probably never will.

User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2244 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17467 times:

AC tested that with DC9's and 727's. When I was a kid we stood on the roof of then old Terminal 1 and watched them reverse and pull into a number of gates. Kind of like a taxiing version of touch and go  Wink, This would have been in the 70's.

User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17467 times:

I have seen AA do a few MD-80 powerbacks at MSP.

User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17441 times:

My last powerbacks were on a couple of NW DC93's in January of 2006 and they were always a lot of fun.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 2):
NW discontinued this policy a year or two ago, and now they're not allowed anywhere on the system...

That is too bad, another cool thing about the past seemingly now gone forever.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17255 times:

I was a Finnair M90 when it powerbacked from a gate in Finland. It also did the same at the end of the runway when it couldn't do a complete rolling turn to line up. I thought it a bit unprofessional but a new experience. Saves waiting on a tug.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17199 times:

not a power push back, but a "broken u-turn" on a CL-44 in Sion Switzerland. For take-off, we back tracked the runway and the turning space at the end was not large enough, they reversed the 4 turboprops for proper line-up.


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineMigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17198 times:

I have seen many times. Usually in very busy airports where you can lost your slot and no tug around.

I have done many times with the ATR´s, you must see the guy in front of the plane, amazing he is almost flying whit all this air coming for the blades.......


User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17155 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 2):
NW discontinued this policy a year or two ago, and now they're not allowed anywhere on the system...

I miss them greatly  sigh 
I can't recall there ever being a time when we used a tug at DTW; it was always powerback. Scared me a little bit as the plane has to go forward a little, then back.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16994 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Powerback in action in the snow.

Lesson one: When there's rain/snow, you stay where you are and let the plane get progressively farther away... Otherwise, you get nailed. I can't tell you how many times I saw a new hire valiantly trying to 'follow" a plane out while getting soaked...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16912 times:

Powerbacks were started by Eastern at the (then) new terminal facilities in Atlanta during 1984. At the time Eastern was using 3 mechanics on each pushback. When the company requested concurrence from the IAM to use one mechanic and two ramp servicemen for the pushback, the IAM refused.
So after testing the system, it was decided to use the powerback on both the 727 and the DC-9. As far as I know, it was never used operationally on anything bigger at Eastern.
Charlie B did try to block a 727 powerback at Atlanta and supposedly another Charlie B told the crew to run him over.
A couple of wiser IAM folks got Charlie B out from behind the 727, before the powerback began. Rumor also has it that the feds were on hand and were going to charge Charlie B with interferring with interstate commerce if he had stayed in place.
I have been on powerbacks at Atlanta and a couple of other places and it was a slick operation.
Airplanes with high bypass engines would have a more difficult time on a powerback because the hot airstream of the engine is not reversed, so you would have the cold stream in reverse and the hot stream in forward thrust.


User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16770 times:

I remember watching a Eastern 757 doing a powerback from Airside B in Tampa when I was a kid. For years I had a couple of pictures I took with my little 110 camera of that powerback but unfortunately I lost those pictures over the years  Sad

SWA TPA



I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineIdlewild From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16408 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Broke (Reply 18):



Quoting Broke (Reply 18):
Powerbacks were started by Eastern at the (then) new terminal facilities in Atlanta during 1984. At the time Eastern was using 3 mechanics on each pushback. When the company requested concurrence from the IAM to use one mechanic and two ramp servicemen for the pushback, the IAM refused.
So after testing the system, it was decided to use the powerback on both the 727 and the DC-9. As far as I know, it was never used operationally on anything bigger at Eastern.
Charlie B did try to block a 727 powerback at Atlanta and supposedly another Charlie B told the crew to run him over.
A couple of wiser IAM folks got Charlie B out from behind the 727, before the powerback began. Rumor also has it that the feds were on hand and were going to charge Charlie B with interferring with interstate commerce if he had stayed in place.
I have been on powerbacks at Atlanta and a couple of other places and it was a slick operation.
Airplanes with high bypass engines would have a more difficult time on a powerback because the hot airstream of the engine is not reversed, so you would have the cold stream in reverse and the hot stream in forward thrust.

Did EA start power-backs in '84? I barely recall being on an EA flight departing JFK for MIA and being awed by the power-back. However, I remember this occurring between '80 & '82, unless it 's an Empire F-28 or Bac-1-11 flight I'm remembering from JFK. It could be my mind is jelly-fying from all the Jet-A I used to inhale when I spotted.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16288 times:

Power backs are common on Tail mounted powerplant equipped aircraft & in places where pushback may not be available.
Just remember to use Fwd thrust to stop & NOT the brakes.
regds
MEL...



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDfwagt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 82 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16258 times:

Here at AA it was done all the time at most gates at DFW. F-100, 727, and MD-80s. When I worked CP, the tow bar broke and they did a power back operation with a 737-200. That was interesting.

User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15983 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Dfwagt (Reply 23):
Here at AA it was done all the time at most gates at DFW

Yep I recall being on many MD80 flights out of DFW when a powerback was used to push back from the gate. For some reason it's not done anymore (at least at DFW). Anyone know why?


User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1765 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16153 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Powerback in action in the snow.

I've heard stories of powerbacks on flooded ramps, and the resulting ... ahem ... impressive ... shower of spray that results ...

Maybe, hopefully, someone has video they could share ...  Smile

- litz


25 Jneel43 : We used to use reverse thrust from the gate when I worked for WAL at SFO in the mid 60's with their 720B's. Most of the time it was in the winter when
26 Heathrow : why was it only common on 727's, DC9's, 717's and MD80's? Position of the engine? How would it differ if say a 737 or 757?
27 Post contains links and images Thomasphoto60 : CO used to power back many times at IAH, as evidenced in the photo below. Indeed a very cool sight, especially on a rainy day. View Large View MediumP
28 DocLightning : I've been aboard one. Feels quite normal except a bit louder and shakier. This was on a NW DC-9.
29 Dfwagt : Wear and tear on the engines
30 Tallguy14 : I was on a Republic DC-9 in Phoenix in 1982 which did the powerback. Watched several DC-9s before it doing the same thing. I was just a young guy but
31 Spudsmac : Didn't the Air Florida flight that crashed in the Potomac do the same thing?
32 RW170 : Yes, they tried to power-back for a few minutes when the tug couldn't get traction on the ice. That didn't work, and they were eventually pushed back
33 PGNCS : It's prohibited on the 757/767; I can't recall about the 737, but I doubt it's allowed. I can't remember any aircraft with underwing engines being al
34 C5LOAD : [ I see how easy it it for a/c with the clamshell thrust reversers i.e. DC-9, C-141, MD-80, etc. But how would a 727 do it? IIRC, it doesn't have the
35 LuisKMIA : - I remember this very well with AA MD-80s and 727s, but with the need to save on fuel, I don't see this ever happening again. - I also remember this
36 JETA1863 : I recall a friend of mine that was operating a BeechJet 400A for a *ahem* "nameless" company, and accidentally turned slightly onto an un-plowed taxiw
37 Okie : Maybe for EA but I can assure you that BN was doing powerbacks at DAL with 27's no later than 1968 and maybe a year before that when I saw my first p
38 HOOB747 : Total tech novice here, so could you please explain why the brakes wouldn't be sufficient? Thanks.
39 Dc863 : I was on an Eastern DC-9-31/32 from ATL-CLE in Dec. '82 and recall vividly that our gate departure was a powerback.
40 413X3 : My guess is that it would totally change the balance of the airplane and maybe tip it over backwards
41 Sunking737 : Back in the day, we did power backs at REPUBLIC on all of our planes. DC-9's, 727's, & Convair 580. Oh the power of being in control. Winter and rain
42 NWADC9 : Are powerbacks done anywhere nowadays in the airline world? It's all physics. Use the brakes, and the momentum from the plane moving backwards will ti
43 71Zulu : AirTran will still do them in an emergency on the 717 but not as normal operations. I have heard them ask MSY ground for permission to powerback for
44 Rivet42 : I was 'lucky' enough to be on an AC 727 in October 1986 that performed a powerback at YVR - the commanding officer even explained over the P.A. that i
45 NWADC9 : NW never did that, on my flights at least. When they did a powerback, they just did it. The only way you'd know if you're about to do one is if the e
46 Aviateur : AA used to perform "powerbacks" with their MD-80s all the time (where allowed). PS
47 Maxpower1954 : Back in 1984, I was flying DC-8s for Arrow Air and living in the San Francisco area. I had recurrent training in Denver at the United Training Center
48 Max Q : Yes we did them all the time at Continental, Dc9's Md80's 727's were all authorised, not sure if we did them on our Frontier inherited 732's. Never th
49 Post contains links and images DocLightning : Doesn't matter, the thrust still gets reversed. The precise mechanism that reverses the thrust is unimportant. Unlike a car, where the CG is located
50 PGNCS : As others have said the aircraft will tip on its tail if you hit the brakes. I have done powerbacks, but given the option I would prefer not to do th
51 United_fan : No wing-walkers? They never did power-backs @ ROC or GSO.
52 AvConsultant : Do tell??? Exactly, I remember standing on the ramp watching the 757 in ATL waiting for the C-Loop bus to pick us up on the last stop watching the 75
53 Fanofjets : I, too, remember USAir performing these at PIT - those JT-8s made quite a racket. I recall being aboard a PEOPLExpress 727 that did a power back; perh
54 TiktokJAKE : Imagine a powerback on an A380 wooooaaaaaah Would it be possible?
55 Duckredbeard : Sorry for leading us off topic, but who is Charlie B?
56 Caspritz78 : Exactly. If the engines are too close to the ground and a wing above the risk of sucking your own exhaust and get a flame out is too big.
57 Dispatchguy : None other than the SOB Charlie Bryan, the IAM (I think that was the union) leader at Eastern Airlines, and IMHO partially responsible for the demise
58 BAC111 : Why does the airplane have to go forward a bit before going backwards? I noticed this on the OP's video clip. ???
59 Charlem : Eastern did it for a long time in Montreal-Dorval with the DC-9. The sound was always amazing while watching this kind of push back.
60 Stratosphere : It gets the airplane tires off the flat spot that develops from sitting at the gate. Makes it a little easier to pull reverse thrust if it is off the
61 JohnJ : I stayed at the DFW Hyatt Regency back in the late 1990s, and at that time the hotel was quite a noisy place on account of the pushbacks. The hotel i
62 DualQual : At least according to my manuals it is prohibited on 737-300 and later. Makes sense since the positioning of the GE's is way more vulnerable to FOD t
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Using Reverse Thrust To Back Out Of Gate... posted Sun Apr 14 2002 01:46:31 by SEA nw DC10
Reverse Thrust Pushback From Gate posted Thu Dec 15 2005 20:00:15 by EFCar98
DC-8 And Reverse Thrust Use In Flight posted Mon Jul 3 2006 05:50:58 by Ttailsteve
Reverse Thrust Explained! posted Tue Dec 20 2005 19:10:44 by Deaphen
Reverse Thrust Deployed Before Landing posted Sat Nov 26 2005 08:35:36 by SkyHigh777
Why Do So Many 767s Land W/o Reverse Thrust? posted Wed Nov 2 2005 22:44:18 by Ilovenz
Do All Airlines Use Reverse Thrust Breaking? posted Mon Oct 24 2005 04:13:26 by ANZ772
Landing At Princess Juliana Without Reverse Thrust posted Sat Mar 5 2005 21:09:26 by Apollo13
BA Never Reverse Thrust At LHR posted Wed Jul 21 2004 20:05:26 by EZYAirbus
American Eagle Reverse Thrust Question posted Sun May 23 2004 19:38:44 by Portcolumbus
Reverse Thrust Pushback From Gate posted Thu Dec 15 2005 20:00:15 by EFCar98
DC-8 And Reverse Thrust Use In Flight posted Mon Jul 3 2006 05:50:58 by Ttailsteve
Reverse Thrust Explained! posted Tue Dec 20 2005 19:10:44 by Deaphen
Reverse Thrust Deployed Before Landing posted Sat Nov 26 2005 08:35:36 by SkyHigh777
Why Do So Many 767s Land W/o Reverse Thrust? posted Wed Nov 2 2005 22:44:18 by Ilovenz
Do All Airlines Use Reverse Thrust Breaking? posted Mon Oct 24 2005 04:13:26 by ANZ772
Landing At Princess Juliana Without Reverse Thrust posted Sat Mar 5 2005 21:09:26 by Apollo13
BA Never Reverse Thrust At LHR posted Wed Jul 21 2004 20:05:26 by EZYAirbus
American Eagle Reverse Thrust Question posted Sun May 23 2004 19:38:44 by Portcolumbus
Reverse Thrust Explained! posted Tue Dec 20 2005 19:10:44 by Deaphen
Reverse Thrust Deployed Before Landing posted Sat Nov 26 2005 08:35:36 by SkyHigh777
Why Do So Many 767s Land W/o Reverse Thrust? posted Wed Nov 2 2005 22:44:18 by Ilovenz
Do All Airlines Use Reverse Thrust Breaking? posted Mon Oct 24 2005 04:13:26 by ANZ772
Landing At Princess Juliana Without Reverse Thrust posted Sat Mar 5 2005 21:09:26 by Apollo13
BA Never Reverse Thrust At LHR posted Wed Jul 21 2004 20:05:26 by EZYAirbus
American Eagle Reverse Thrust Question posted Sun May 23 2004 19:38:44 by Portcolumbus
Using Reverse Thrust To Back Out Of Gate... posted Sun Apr 14 2002 01:46:31 by SEA nw DC10
Reverse Thrust Pushback From Gate posted Thu Dec 15 2005 20:00:15 by EFCar98
DC-8 And Reverse Thrust Use In Flight posted Mon Jul 3 2006 05:50:58 by Ttailsteve
Reverse Thrust Explained! posted Tue Dec 20 2005 19:10:44 by Deaphen
Reverse Thrust Deployed Before Landing posted Sat Nov 26 2005 08:35:36 by SkyHigh777
Why Do So Many 767s Land W/o Reverse Thrust? posted Wed Nov 2 2005 22:44:18 by Ilovenz
Do All Airlines Use Reverse Thrust Breaking? posted Mon Oct 24 2005 04:13:26 by ANZ772
Landing At Princess Juliana Without Reverse Thrust posted Sat Mar 5 2005 21:09:26 by Apollo13
BA Never Reverse Thrust At LHR posted Wed Jul 21 2004 20:05:26 by EZYAirbus
American Eagle Reverse Thrust Question posted Sun May 23 2004 19:38:44 by Portcolumbus