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OAG: DL/NW Changes For Week Of Feb06 09  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10940 times:

NEW DL ATL-BIL 1x on a 76 seat RJ, July start
NEW DL DSM-SLC 1x on a 50 seat RJ, June start
NEW DL MKE-SLC 1x on a 70 seat RJ, June start
NEW DL CDG-PHL Daily on a 757, November start, replaces the AF flight

April only
BDL-TPA and FLL-LGA move from DL to NW
ATL-DTW moves from NW to DL

OAG changes usually are not reflected in GDS until Monday.

143 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3939 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10914 times:
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quick little question.............didn't DL operate CDG-BOM a few years back??

ATL-BIL.............very nice. BIL is a nice city (in the summer!!)



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7552 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10891 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-DTW moves from NW to DL

All DL metal, or just all DL flight #s (with NW & DL metal)?
Seemed like there still were a bunch of DC-9's & A319/A320's still on this route.


User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

FLL-LGA from DL to NW? What aircraft is used on this route now? I guess the move is to right-size the aircraft. Will it go to A320's? PTV's will be lost with this.

User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10866 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
NEW DL ATL-BIL 1x on a 76 seat RJ, July start

First off once again thanks for the post, these updates make my Fridays.

Does it give any indication of which 76 seat regional will operate this route?
I would think that it would have to be either S5 or CP. I would think that it would be CP since they operate some of the longer E175 routes.

ATL-BIL is: 1525mi GC
DTW-MTY is: 1480mi GC
MSP-YVR is: 1436mi GC
MEM-PHX is: 1264mi GC


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22866 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10855 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BDL-TPA and FLL-LGA move from DL to NW

Are those both Airbii? I assume so...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10797 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-DTW moves from NW to DL

According to the schedule it will still be 3x NW on the route, 1 D95 and 2 A320's.

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 3):
FLL-LGA from DL to NW? What aircraft is used on this route now?

4x MD-80's



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10776 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 1):
quick little question.............didn't DL operate CDG-BOM a few years back??

ATL-BIL.............very nice. BIL is a nice city (in the summer!!)

Originally FRA-DEL/BOM, later CDG-BOM with a one-time FRA-BOM added, then ATL-JFK-BOM, now ATL-BOM. Delta also had CDG-MAA for a while but then transferred it to Air France.

Comair flew CVG-BIL 4-5 years ago with a CRJ-700. This time it makes more sense.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10374 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10765 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 1):

quick little question.............didn't DL operate CDG-BOM a few years back??

I was thinking it was FRA-BOM, a continuation of a flight from JFK, but I'm not positive. I know that flight did exist right after the PanAm acquisition.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17420 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10742 times:



Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 7):
now ATL-BOM

Incidentally that was cut down to 4x weekly in MAY09; GRUJFK will be reduced to 5x weekly in MAY09 as well.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10731 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):

All DL metal, or just all DL flight #s (with NW & DL metal)?

I only do metal. I ignore code share.

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 3):
FLL-LGA from DL to NW? What aircraft is used on this route now?



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):

Are those both Airbii? I assume so...

Remember this is April only

NW 0805 1102 319 BDL TPA
NW 1142 1431 319 TPA BDL
NW 1515 1816 319 BDL TPA
NW 1856 2147 319 TPA BDL

NW 0710 1013 319 FLL LGA
NW 0720 1019 319 LGA FLL
NW 1100 1405 319 FLL LGA
NW 1110 1418 319 LGA FLL
NW 1445 1757 319 LGA FLL
NW 1500 1802 319 FLL LGA
NW 1845 2151 319 FLL LGA
NW 1845 2153 319 LGA FLL

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 4):

Does it give any indication of which 76 seat regional will operate this route?

EV 0700 1230 CR9 BIL ATL
EV 1915 2050 CR9 ATL BIL


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10717 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):

According to the schedule it will still be 3x NW on the route, 1 D95 and 2 A320's.

It's all Delta for April now.

0540 0745 M88 DTW ATL
0600 0752 M88 ATL DTW
0640 0843 757 DTW ATL
0725 0920 M88 ATL DTW
0850 1055 757 ATL DTW
0919 1125 M88 DTW ATL
1025 1232 M88 ATL DTW
1030 1230 M88 DTW ATL
1145 1344 757 DTW ATL
1215 1421 M88 ATL DTW
1334 1537 M88 DTW ATL
1420 1620 757 ATL DTW
1515 1722 M88 DTW ATL
1520 1723 757 ATL DTW
1628 1831 M88 ATL DTW
1710 1921 757 DTW ATL
1817 2020 M88 ATL DTW
1820 2030 757 DTW ATL
1905 2110 M88 DTW ATL

1937 2147 M88 ATL DTW
2104 2306 M88 DTW ATL
2135 2334 757 ATL DTW


User currently offlinePilotfox From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10712 times:

Good to see MKE-SLC back.

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10636 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):
It's all Delta for April now

Must be the only route that hasn't been updated in PARS as the rest show the schedule you gave.

BTW you are missing a huge upgrade.

MSP-ATL (looking at APR 10)

NW 624 11:10a-2:45p A330-300

ATL-MSP
NW 56 5:05p-6:50p A330-300



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10617 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
1856

Is this a DL flight no or a NW flight no?

Usually anything about 179X or 18XX is a regional flight no for NW.



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10591 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
April only
BDL-TPA and FLL-LGA move from DL to NW
ATL-DTW moves from NW to DL

Supposidly its not only for April.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):
Is this a DL flight no or a NW flight no?

Usually anything about 179X or 18XX is a regional flight no for NW

Thats the departure time  Wink



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10518 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 8):
I was thinking it was FRA-BOM, a continuation of a flight from JFK, but I'm not positive. I know that flight did exist right after the PanAm acquisition.

It was DL106/DL107, JFK-FRA-BOM 4x, and JFK-FRA-DEL 3x weekly. Then DL dropped DEL, and it was daily JFK-FRA-BOM. Then it changed to different flight numbers, first DL57/DL58, LAX-FRA-BOM, MD-11. Then after the FRA hub was pulled, I think DL14/DL15 came into play, ATL-FRA-BOM, and then the flight was pulled out of FRA, and moved over to CDG. There was one seasonal FRA-BOM that ran at the same time as CDG-BOM. Then JFK-BOM direct, and now down to ATL-BOM.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10453 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 8):



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 1):

quick little question.............didn't DL operate CDG-BOM a few years back??

I was thinking it was FRA-BOM, a continuation of a flight from JFK, but I'm not positive. I know that flight did exist right after the PanAm acquisition.

the above is accurate but PA also split serving DEL and BOM at the acqusition. DL fairly quickly dropped DEL and has remained at BOM ever since.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 7):
now ATL-BOM

Incidentally that was cut down to 4x weekly in MAY09

I'll also remind you that DL's TATL LF was one of the closest to flat among network carriers so DL is clearly doing the right thing when it comes to managing its capacity.

and even if you look at Latin America which was DL's most challenging region in terms of LF for Jan, DL's LF change was within 2 LF points difference of AA's.

There are clear strategic decisions that each carrier is making and the validity of those decisions will be verified in mid-April when financial numbers for the quarter come out. Based on what we have seen in financial reports over the last couple years, DL has a pretty good pulse on where they need to cut capacity and where they can afford to stick it out for strategic reasons.

As we can see in other discussions about specific markets on this board, there are some carriers that are foolishly trying to make inroads in other carriers' markets and there are some carriers that are hunkering down where it matters. The cost for making foolish decisions is high for all carriers. You either know what you are doing or you will get burned - badly.

With these new announcements, DL is strengthening its traffic flows between traditionally strong NW and DL markets, where the benefits of the merger will come from.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7111 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10391 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 13):
MSP-ATL (looking at APR 10)

NW 624 11:10a-2:45p A330-300

ATL-MSP
NW 56 5:05p-6:50p A330-300

That was not loaded this week. It is also only for a month and then moves to JFK. It is covered in another thread. I usually don't look at equipment types. It's just too much to scan.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 14):
Usually anything about 179X or 18XX is a regional flight no for NW.

That's the time, not the flight. NW has A319s.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 15):
Supposidly its not only for April.

That would make sense, but it's only filed for April at this point. They may roll it forward in the next week.


User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10386 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 18):
That's the time, not the flight. NW has A319s.

Whoops. Sorry. My mistake...



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10304 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
As we can see in other discussions about specific markets on this board, there are some carriers that are foolishly trying to make inroads in other carriers' markets and there are some carriers that are hunkering down where it matters.

Every carrier makes mistakes, right?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
and even if you look at Latin America which was DL's most challenging region in terms of LF for Jan, DL's LF change was within 2 LF points difference of AA's.

Beyond the challenge of load factor, there is the issue of Delta relying on Latin America to Florida traffic to sustain ATL flights. The fare each passenger pays gets divided by a much bigger mileage number. TAM flies a MAO passenger 2400 miles to get them to South Florida. Delta has to fly them more than 3500 miles.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10262 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 20):
Beyond the challenge of load factor, there is the issue of Delta relying on Latin America to Florida traffic to sustain ATL flights.

every carrier has a certain amount of circuity issues.
DL's circuity to Latin America for its top O&Ds is far smaller than what other carriers with predominantly midwest hubs have for traffic to Europe.
DL is no more reliant on S. America to Florida traffic than AA does... DOT traffic stats show that AA carries a significant amount of traffic to/from Latin America via MIA.
And given that there is very little local market for MIA-Central Florida, AA's costs for carrying that traffic is actually much higher than it is for DL via ATL where there is a large local market on top of the worldwide connections DL makes there. The CASM for DL to carry traffic via ATL from Florida to Latin America is far lower than for AA via MIA both because of the high intra-Florida costs for AA flights which are largely connecting passengers and because of the very high facility costs at MIA - easiliy 3-4X what DL pays at ATL.
I don't think I'd try to argue that AA has an advantage without knowing the costs involved. The evidence is overwhelming that DL has the cost advnantage not only to Florida but also across their entire system.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17420 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10243 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
DL is no more reliant on S. America to Florida traffic than AA does... DOT traffic stats show that AA carries a significant amount of traffic to/from Latin America via MIA.

I hope you're kidding us with this Yeah sure



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5240 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10172 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Incidentally that was cut down to 4x weekly in MAY09; GRUJFK will be reduced to 5x weekly in MAY09 as well.

Interesting. You're always very quick to remind us of an cutbacks that DL is making but you were nowwhere to be found when CO decided to reduce EWR-BOM to 5 weekly for April and May. Interesting...



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10086 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 10):
EV 0700 1230 CR9 BIL ATL
EV 1915 2050 CR9 ATL BIL

That sounds like a brutally long time to be on a CRJ-900...

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
According to the schedule it will still be 3x NW on the route, 1 D95 and 2 A320's.

Interesting side note: ATL is showing 74F service starting in March.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
every carrier has a certain amount of circuity issues.
DL's circuity to Latin America for its top O&Ds is far smaller than what other carriers with predominantly midwest hubs have for traffic to Europe.
DL is no more reliant on S. America to Florida traffic than AA does... DOT traffic stats show that AA carries a significant amount of traffic to/from Latin America via MIA.
And given that there is very little local market for MIA-Central Florida, AA's costs for carrying that traffic is actually much higher than it is for DL via ATL where there is a large local market on top of the worldwide connections DL makes there. The CASM for DL to carry traffic via ATL from Florida to Latin America is far lower than for AA via MIA both because of the high intra-Florida costs for AA flights which are largely connecting passengers and because of the very high facility costs at MIA - easiliy 3-4X what DL pays at ATL.
I don't think I'd try to argue that AA has an advantage without knowing the costs involved. The evidence is overwhelming that DL has the cost advnantage not only to Florida but also across their entire system.

Can you (or anyone else) point me in the direction of where I can look all this data up?

Thanks in advance.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
25 Incitatus : I can't see why it is "interesting" when somebody posts reliable information. Reliable information is always welcome. Interesting is WT's reply 21. L
26 KGAIflyer : And in the winter -- I was there three weeks ago. It seems that since recent interest by G4 taking folks to Las Vegas and Phoenix, locals are discove
27 MaverickM11 : DL was the first to leave NYCBOM, and the first to reduce USABOM. CO also reduced EWRBOM. Point being?
28 WorldTraveler : it is available from the DOT but you need a program to manipulate the data. and the top O&Ds are in central Florida, a 200 mile hop away. For the 4 q
29 DeltaL1011man : have to agree here. If you look at the size of DL's Latin AM network you will see most of it is gone in the winter months. Why? ATL lacks O/D to Lati
30 Burnsie28 : The A333 MSP-ATL ends March 1st, for whatever reason they are flying that route instead of bridging it from AMS where it comes from. Secondly the MSP
31 Cubsrule : But you've pointed out the problem with the argument yourself: it's purely a question of accounting. If the folks that fly MCOMIA would not fly AA bu
32 MAH4546 : I don't know who would make the absurd assertion that MIA is not a large O&D market from Central America. From Central America's VFR markets, only SAL
33 Incitatus : "ONLY" 14%??? Come on. 14% in this case, for a low-yield market like MCO is a heck of a lot. It is likely in the same ballpark of the size of the loc
34 Post contains links WorldTraveler : in fact, DL's system LF was the closest to flat among all the network carriers. Only AS and FL had LF gains and they both did it on larger ASM reduct
35 Bobnwa : Most of what is gone? Don't understand what you mean. Does it matter who did it first, since it appeared to the right thing to do?
36 Cubsrule : Of course, you and I both know that the CASM likely isn't 25 cents... their systemwide CASM now is likely in the 12-13 cent range.
37 MaverickM11 : Of course DL is only getting that fare on the 30 PDEW that fly the local market. The rest is flow, which is likely lower yield. AA is getting that fa
38 Incitatus : Which "cost allocation model"? I have not allocated any costs. Thus my "cost allocation model" does not exist, unless you just tried to invent it. Ar
39 DeltaL1011man : Most of Delta's network is very seasonal. Some of its drops all together (SXM comes to mind) and then some drops off to 1-2x weekly.
40 WorldTraveler : yes, it does. As evidenced by the traffic reports that just came out. DL's system LF was down just 0.3 points which was the least reduction for netwo
41 MAH4546 : I'd rather make $700/passenger flying 450 MIAGRU passengers than $950 flying 60 ATLTGRU passengers, but, hey, that's WT manipulation for ya...
42 SurfandSnow : Atlanta, Memphis, and Salt Lake City sure seem to be reaping the benefits of this merger.... Any additional service to Cincinnati, Detroit, or Minneap
43 FFlyerWorld : Not only this above.... the cost per enplanement (CPE) for AA at MIA is more than 2X what it is for DL at ATL. And when AA's new concourse at MIA fin
44 DeltaL1011man : and If the citys gets what they want out of Delta DL's cost will go up 2-3X
45 Enilria : I hadn't noticed that, but you are right. On an E190 I'd do it, but I'd avoid a CR9. You can go to BTS.gov, but the int'l O&D data is not available t
46 MaverickM11 : You do realize MIA has extensive competition on the nonstop, so it's not really a valid competition. I don't think anyone would argue that ATLGRU isn
47 WorldTraveler : there is no manipulation; let me repeat again. DL's average fare for the ENTIRE ATLGRU segment is more than $100 higher that what AA gets for MIAGRU
48 MaverickM11 : DL makes its best money in noncompetitive markets, ie ATL, as opposed to JFK where there's a lot more competition. Why don't you ask yourself the sam
49 CompensateMe : ...and I guess that AirTran, with roughly 25% of ATL's local market, is uncompetitive.
50 Enilria : AirTran? I would say the JFK domestic is bad because of JetBlue and the JFK int'l was good until the economy declined. I think all the ATL monopoly m
51 MaverickM11 : I was only speaking about international markets, which are for the most part, light on competition. Even in the domestic markets where DL competes wi
52 CompensateMe : You mean those routes DL has a monopoly on, like... -- Atlanta to Recief -- Atlanta to Sal Island -- Atlanta to Nairobi -- Atlanta to Guayaquil -- At
53 MAH4546 : AA's new concourse is already half-open, and MIA actually has slowed down the rate increases, including a current freeze on landing fees. Asking for
54 Stapleton : Actually, NW has moved from mainline to E175 beginning in February through early June so this may be a reallocation of service from MSP to ATL. We wi
55 WorldTraveler : JFK is highly competitive. the competition is not just from US carriers (which include CO at EWR) but also dozens of int'l carriers, some of which re
56 MaverickM11 : If you believe that, then DL should cancel JFKLHR--in fact most of JFK should be dropped.
57 DeltaL1011man : not 100% true.....The City can do what ever they want as long as it doesn't void any of the contracts with Delta. At that point there is nothing Delt
58 Jetlanta : No offense Mav, but what airline DOESN'T make it's best money in noncompetitive markets? AA is very strong on many of the markets you refer to, but I
59 MAH4546 : Well, of AA's 25 best performing domestic routes based on RASM, 21 of them have non-stop competition on another airline.
60 Jetlanta : Oh come on, you know better than that. RASM is one half of the equation. Show me CASM by route, then we can talk about it. For example, AA JFK-LAX ro
61 Enilria : You may be 100% right, but your theory will probably get a full test this Fall/Winter.
62 MKE22 : Yes! We requested 2x back in the day when this did well, and now at least we get it back. Expect this to be a high performer in winter months (no duh
63 MaverickM11 : Tell Worldtraveler that. That was exactly my point.
64 Mke717spotter : I'm planning to go on a daytrip May 2 to try out NW one last time ATL-DTW-MKE before they mesh into DL. Right now for May its showing NW planes back
65 Jetlanta : LOL..I guess the key is to have as many of them as possible! Part of the reason you want multiple fortress hubs.
66 Burnsie28 : Thats what they said about Denver and look at whats happening now.
67 Bobnwa : Who of any consequence said anything about Denver, and what is happening now?
68 Burnsie28 : They said that Southwest in Denver wouldn't do well, now, Southwest is about to overtake F9 for pax.
69 Bobnwa : My question was WHO said it? I don't remember anyone in a position to know, suggest anything like that.
70 SNCntry32 : It would be laughable to think they are trying to reallocate service from the montana area to atl when MSP offer's just the same connections domestic
71 Cubsrule : I believe MEM has gained five new cities... how many have they lost?
72 GoBoeing : You might want to check a USA map.
73 CompensateMe : Maybe DL could comprise and serve North Montana from MSP, and South Montana from ATL.
74 Jetlanta : DL is not UA. FL is not F9. And ATL has no space, DEN did.
75 Bobnwa : What should I look for when checking a USA map? NW has served Montana from MSP for a very long time. Are you disputing that?
76 Ocracoke : I think you missed the joke. It was written "Montanas," as in more than one Montana. North Montana, South Montana, East Montana, West Montana. Somone
77 Incitatus : Southwest is not going to enter as many markets as FL flies. Southwest is going to pick some key markets, like ATL-LAX and ATL-FLL. Thus they are not
78 SNCntry32 : ?? Why should I do this? At first glance, SLC and MSP appear to be about the same distance, a few miles shorter to SLC, then MSP. BIL (45°48'28"N 10
79 Ocracoke : That's nice and all, but where exactly are they going to park their planes in ATL? SInce they are not going to "be a small operation", they are going
80 Ocracoke : WOW! That's a long flight! 5019 miles.
81 MaverickM11 : There was "no room" at DEN when WN wanted to start--space has a way of magically appearing when the right airline wants to pay the right price.
82 Jetlanta : Gary Kelly told you they are going to fly ATL-LAX? ATL-FLL? Maybe you should have read his comments the other way, they won't enter ATL until they ca
83 Ocracoke : Don't stop there. Give me some more insight....tell me which gates will magically appear in ATL for WN to set up a big operation? Nothing on T, nothi
84 GoBoeing : Alright SNCntry32 and Bobnwa: Get it now?
85 Enilria : I would say it is less than 50-50 that NW planes will fly it in May. For some reason they flip some routes just 60 days out. I'm betting it is relate
86 MaverickM11 : DIA had "zero space" just prior to WN starting. They took over the TZ gates--I think it was three--and since then have expanded to other gates that b
87 Bobnwa : Other than passengers boarded (just barely) list a few other measures of the "several measures" where WN is larger than Delta domestically today.
88 Enilria : They (WN) have said several times that they now want to be the business airline and that they can't have holes in their route network with that strat
89 Panamair : FYI, for Q4 2008, standalone Delta (i.e., not including NW) had lower Mainline ex-fuel/specials CASM than even WN. DL's was 6.74 cents while WN's was
90 FlyPNS1 : But that doesn't adjust for stage length which makes a big difference since WN's stage length is much shorter. Not to mention that you leave out RJ's
91 Incitatus : What a choice of words. We all know that the way one airline bleeds the other is by bleeding itself. So yes, I agree Southwest will get "slaughtered"
92 FL787 : If WN does come to ATL it will be really ugly. DL and FL will flood the first market WN tries to fly to. FL normally avoids WN but this is the one pl
93 Cubsrule : ...which presents an interesting choice. Does WN a) demand room for 100 daily flights, knowing that this demand is unlikely to be granted but that th
94 DeltaL1011man : Guess they are just going to park out on the runways and deplane? bout the only place they can. There is no room in Atlanta preiod and WN wont get on
95 Jetlanta : They do lose money in SFO, PHL and even DEN. And they will likely lose money in LGA. Which measures would those be? There are NO unused gates. Not su
96 DeltaL1011man : I'd say more like a half at off peak times
97 Enilria : This may shock you, but Delta only has 1,232 domestic departures per day systemwide this month. Southwest has 3,284. Northwest has 849. So Southwest
98 Cubsrule : It's an interesting question. AFAIK, no one has ever tried to get more than a handful.
99 CompensateMe : But they're exclusively operating on behalf of DL -- for the most part, DL sets the schedule, decides who to fly it and what equipment will be operat
100 Jetlanta : So, if Delta's average stage length is 1266 miles, how about calculating out ASM's for each carrier and tell me who is larger. You aren't using the c
101 Jetlanta : In fact, except for EM2 service at SLC, all Delta Connection capacity is ASM-buy. But our friend apparently wants to exclude that capacity because hi
102 FFlyerWorld : I usually agree with you on most of discussions however, if both FL and DL cannot come to agreement with the city of ATL on a compromise regarding so
103 Enilria : I don't think the law is clear one way or the other, but my gut tells me that to ask for 6-7 gates would be taken as ridiculous. They are not exclusi
104 Cubsrule : My gut too, but if you don't try, you're guaranteed not to succeed....
105 Jetlanta : But they will come to an agreement. End of story. Its simple. Delta BUYS the ENTIRE capacity of every aircraft operated by a Delta Connection carrier
106 Enilria : I hear what you are saying, but it's like borrowing money from your brother. If you ask for $100 he'll probably say yes, but if you ask for $10,000 h
107 Jetlanta : I'll agree with you here. But I'd say two is the limit. That gives time 20 flights per day. They won't be looking to add more flights than that in AT
108 MaverickM11 : If WN wanted to be in ATL, they'd be there. Remember how LHR was full and couldn't take any more transatlantic flights because of open skies? Or how
109 Jetlanta : Mav, I keep agreeing with you lately. Something must be in the air! WN isn't in ATL today because the business case for them basically sucks. The ide
110 CompensateMe : Let me rephrase: the Delta Connection/Northwest Airlink flights being operated on behalf of DL/NW are operated exclusively for DL/NW. The NW/KL relat
111 Jetlanta : Actually, Delta gets ALL of the revenue in this case.
112 Cubsrule : I don't know about that. There are, I think, a fair number of opportunities to strong WN cities where FL is fairly weak; places like HOU, STL, and MC
113 Enilria : I think time and strategy are the reasons they aren't there now. They only want to add a few cities per year and the decision to pursue this "filling
114 DeltaL1011man : they threat things all the time. I can remember when the city and Delta got into a pissing match over a parking lot, And the pissing match that laste
115 Enilria : The bottom line is that neither DL or FL are going to shrink ATL very much over this issue...if at all. Delta is systematically doing this at all the
116 DeltaL1011man : F will have nothing to do with WN. I don't see the city letting WN get into the FIS gates w/o a need. F is pretty much 100% for DL(though they don't
117 Jetlanta : Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. When Republic and Skywest start doing their own Network Planning and Revenue Management, they will be true airlines. Until they
118 Enilria : Flights will move from the existing building to operate in F, freeing up space. Would you like to make a bet that when WN comes in to ATL, they will
119 Cubsrule : What is DL's gate utilization like at ATL?
120 Enilria : Their gate map on delta.com says they have 130 gates. That would give them (1,008 flights) 7.75 per gate if their map is accurate. That would imply t
121 FlyPNS1 : How many gates were UA/AA forced to give VX at ORD? None. There's still a significant cost difference especially when you factor in the RJ's. Of cour
122 Cubsrule : It's a bad comparison, though. The issue wasn't availability but price. VX could get gates (I suspect from CO, though that information isn't public).
123 CompensateMe : Huh?! NW/KL operate a joint venture in which the two carriers operate as one across the Atlantic, splitting all costs and all revenues. Thus, while N
124 Enilria : That's exactly what I've heard. Split implies it is 50-50, it is not. The split of revenue is tied to each carrier's specific costs, not terribly unl
125 FlyPNS1 : Price and availability are largely one in the same. The reason the price was so high was because there were few gates available. Basic economics that
126 Cubsrule : But in terms of Air21, they're distinct. Gate availability should mean no use of Air21 (Enilria can help me out here).
127 DeltaL1011man : Nope. F is for expanding FIS gates. good luck getting gates then Delta takes the City to the judge and DL gets money and the gates from the city. Sou
128 CompensateMe : It's not a fine line. DL is wholly responsible for its Connection flying. If DL were to rework "a sentence or two" so that all of its Connection part
129 DeltAirlines : I don't think so any more since pretty much all of C is now equipped with jetways. If I were in this position of having massive pallets of Coke and s
130 IgneousRocks : No let's really be realistic: a) SWA is the most sought after airline by airports seeking to enhance their domestic service options; b) If SWA wants
131 Jetlanta : You don't understand Atlanta or Georgia politics AT ALL.
132 Enilria : Yes, I have seen cases before under Air21 where the gates were offered, but at very high prices. There is nothing in Air21 forcing the price to be fa
133 DeltaL1011man : with in there power. But they have NO gates. They city can do NOTHING. Thats what people are not getting. DL,CO,UA,AA,NK,YX,AC,BA,KE,KL,LH,AF,FL all
134 FL787 : Here's what I think realistically: a) ATL basically has every airport on the planet covered as far as non-stops and there really aren't that many pla
135 DeltaL1011man : E is over flowing. So sure some flights will be moved but no space will open up. If WN wants to pay almost 2x what they would pay at a non-FIS gate t
136 CompensateMe : Book me a ticket on Republic in which the flight's operating as Delta Connection. Please ensure that the ticket's plated Republic.
137 Cubsrule : Well, it's not quite that far down the continuum. CO keeps the extra gate for RONs and, and their aircraft never wait for a gate. When DH and HP were
138 Mayor : Do you "realisically" think that ATL will try and screw its bread and butter, DL, just to get some gates for WN? DL already said that they would keep
139 Enilria : So you agree that WN could buy their way into ATL if they choose. Good thing they have tons of cash. There's probably 10 people on this board who kno
140 DeltaL1011man : Ha no i don't agree. Well take that back. They can buy Delta once they go into Chap 7. hahaha
141 CompensateMe : Nah, I'll just have you e-mail Delta and let them know that apparently they don't operate hubs at CVG or MEM. And I never saw a "Colgan Plane Crashes
142 DeltAirlines : Here's the thing with LGA though - there are (were now that WN is coming in) gates available. Concourse B is where they will end up. Here's the curre
143 TristarCrazy : The City of Atlanta's Department of Aviation is two faced....they publicly helped DAL fight off Doug Parker's take over attempt "to save the Atlanta H
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