El Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2 Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9921 times:
El Al had uploaded today its operation to GRU on all systems.
First direct schedule operation between Israel and Latin america will commence on May 2nd on 3 weekly basis.
Flights to GRU are to be operated non-stop with 772s
Flights details as follow:
LY 009 (SAT, MON, WED) ETD TLV 21:45 ETA GRU 06:30+1 14:45 772
LY010 (SUN, TUE, THU) ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 14:55+1 13:40 772
RAFFIK From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1694 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9778 times:
That's great news for El Al!
Glad to see the 777 on the route, a fine aircraft indeed!
Do travellers from Israel connect through FRA or MAD to get to Latin America? Or do they take EL ALs service to JFK and connect through there? Sorry to be ignorant on this matter! Just curious to see , that's all!
Only on certain Saturdays when Shabbat goes out in TLV as late as 20:00+ to allow orthodox jews to get on the flights (May to July)
LY wanted the ETA at GRU at 07:30 so the schedule would then be united but did not get the desired slots at GRU.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3615 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9473 times:
Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 5): Only on certain Saturdays when Shabbat goes out in TLV as late as 20:00+ to allow orthodox jews to get on the flights (May to July)
LY wanted the ETA at GRU at 07:30 so the schedule would then be united but did not get the desired slots at GRU.
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 6): I'm sure Continental does a decent amount of feed through EWR.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3615 posts, RR: 20 Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9386 times:
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 8):
You would be very surprised. If the price is right, passengers will and do connect via the U.S.. I myself have seen passengers doing this routing.
There are enough competitive fares through Europe, most importantly there are enough competitive schedules, which is something not offered in the US. Not even JJ's daylight flights are really connectable to flights to TLV.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11324 posts, RR: 60 Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9154 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 8): You would be very surprised. If the price is right, passengers will and do connect via the U.S.. I myself have seen passengers doing this routing
Connection thru the US demand a Visa (for Brazilians) that costs US$ 130.00 for people that lives in BSB, SAO, RIO or REC. If they are from city's outside, put the day off and the trip to a consulate/embassy to get the visa.
Do you think it's really a good deal to travel thru the US ?
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Pzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1385 posts, RR: 15 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7752 times:
Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 13): wouldn't it make sense to have a leg down to EZE? Buenos Aires has the largest Jewish population in South America, larger than São Paulo actually.
It seems to me they are not targeting the Jewish population, but SAO large economic base which is still going to vigorously grow during 2009. They are indeed LatAm powerhouse and LY wants to be there for the profit that makes, not to carry VFF.
El Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7701 times:
If LY can ensure that its pax will be able to connect easily to EZE through lots of SPAs and other special interline agreements in the right prices - not continuing to EZE is the right decision. Im sure LY evaluated a possible termination at EZE rather than at GRU. But, who knows, maybe they'll go for it when time comes.
All those one stop services cost a fortune for LY and no doubt the airline learned something from the bad experience it had with it over the past.
Last one stop service was ORD via YYZ (ceased 2 years ago).
Rafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7699 times:
Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 14): They are indeed LatAm powerhouse and LY wants to be there for the profit that makes, not to carry VFF
I understand your point but most of biz ties between Israel and foreign countries (especially immigrant societies like North and South America) is faith/religion/ethnic based.
Do you think that the ridiculously high demand between NYC and TLV is just because it's New York? Don't you agree that the HUGE Jewish pop in NY metro has something to do with it (both for biz and VFF traffic)?
Not to mention that the VFF crowd could always fill the back of the plane.
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7668 times:
Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 16): Do you think that the ridiculously high demand between NYC and TLV is just because it's New York? Don't you agree that the HUGE Jewish pop in NY metro has something to do with it (both for biz and VFF traffic)?
New York City is the only city in the world that has a large enough Jewish population to justify flights to TLV. Regarding most flights to TLV, Jewish population isn't a huge factor (see: LY ending service to ORD and MIA).
AA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2284 posts, RR: 24 Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7365 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10): Do you think it's really a good deal to travel thru the US ?
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9): There are enough competitive fares through Europe, most importantly there are enough competitive schedules, which is something not offered in the US. Not even JJ's daylight flights are really connectable to flights to TLV.
Yes, I am aware of all of that. What both of you fail to realize is that there are passengers that connect through the U.S.. Of course it is a MUCH smaller percentage than the amount through Europe. And not all passengers are Brazilian passengers that require a visa to transit.
Again, I am saying there is a small amount of traffic carried through the U.S.. You cannot sit there and tell me that there are NO passengers that transit through U.S. points on there way to South America when I see them while I work these flights.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 23242 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7358 times:
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 21): The great circle route is over much of north africa.
Several of which I'm sure they can't overfly, for example Libya. Like a few of their other routes, there will probably be some detours from the shortest routing. LY TLV-BKK flights take about 2 hours longer than if they could fly the most direct route.
25 Planenutz: Viscount724 is correct. ELAL doesn;t have overflight permission from Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Sudan, or Niger. I also believe they cannpt fly over muc
26 LipeGIG: Rio. El Al use to keep their office in Rio and should be because of market size. As a Brazilian i expect this but to be more realistic, i wouldn't ex
27 IAD380: If El Al decides in the future to add EZE as its second destination in South America, would it necessarily be an add-on to the GRU flight? Does the 7
28 C010T3: Well, LY's presence is so small that it doesn't make sense to have more than one yet. LY's operation costs are so high that they need to save somewhe
29 Incitatus: Because most high ranking military in the Brazilian Air Force were from Rio and did not want to see the gateway role of GIG undermined. The group of
30 LipeGIG: Was not wise and at the same time was wise. Giving current market conditions, to maintain two offices for a 3x weekly service. Looking this way, soun
31 C010T3: I'm sorry, but can you prove your accusations?
32 IAD380: I agree with you. I question whether now is the time to launch this route. Let's wait and see whether El Al is still operating TLV-GRU two, three, or
33 CastropRauxel: mostly MAD. of course other european airlines such as LH, LX, AF and BA take a bite as well, but the biggest gateway is definitely MAD. some airlines
34 Airbazar: Brazilian passport holders aren't the only ones flying these routes. Not to mention that many Brazilians also have a passport from another country wh
35 Rafabozzolla: He most probably can't present hard facts. But it is common knowledge that FAB top raking officials did what they could to prevent traffic flow shift
36 LipeGIG: No, they are not the only ones, but they are the majority. If a person (Brazilian) holds another passport, the chance of a need to fly to Israel thru
37 C010T3: That's a lie. T1 was at capacity while T2 was being built. Only afterwards, GIG's traffic declined in favor of SDU, CGH and GRU.
38 Rafabozzolla: It's not. But anyway... Is there a reason other than the military from Rio undermining GRU to explain why São Paulo was neglected in favor of Rio?
39 Semsem: Raffik: Yes many connect in Frankfurt with LH or Madrid with IB. Until a few years ago LY and TAP were operating to Lisbon and that was also a connect
40 RJpieces: I disagree. Your argument is circular logic. NYC-TLV traffic doesn't consist solely of Israelis travelling to NYC. The fact is that the NYC area has
41 RJpieces: And on another related note, which European airlines do the most connecting traffic from TLV to N. America? I would guess Swiss, Lufthansa, and Britis
42 Airbazar: You guys talk as if Jewish people are the only ones traveling to Israel. There's a lot of travel to Israel from Christians, visiting Jerusalem. Chris
43 RJpieces: In my reply 17, I directly stated that Jewish population is not a huge factor. But I maintain that NYC-TLV is an exception because of the huge Jewish
44 CastropRauxel: Of course it is a strech, which is why I never said that... sure there is an effect, but it's much less significant than you think or portray here. t
45 El Al 001: Do you have an MIDT or BSP or whatever data to support that?
46 NYC2TLV: That is not true. From both EWR and JFK to TLV there have been fares by all non-stop carriers (LY, DL and CO) of $727 including all fuel and taxes. T
47 CastropRauxel: Better: actual passenger figures. on LH691 TLV-FRA today, no passenger continued to JFK, only 1 to EWR. on the other hand, 5 continued to SFO, 6 to I
48 El Al 001: So? I think you are being a bit arrogance with this. Watching some aggrigated numbers reffering to LH TLV O&D traffic data for 2008 will drive you to
49 NYC2TLV: The point I was getting at was that so many people try to deny a connection between El Al destinations and the size of the Jewish market. My point wa
50 Hardiwv: Thanks for the news. According to IB information more than 80% of IB loads to TLV originate from EZE, GRU, MEX and GIG. Finalising the flight in GRU i
51 Amirs: WHAT???? PARIS ? Mostly because of community LONDON ? Mix like NY LOS ANGELES ? Mostly for the community
52 RJpieces: Hmm, I've only flown CO EWR-TLV once, and I didn't notice THAT much of a difference. On my flight anyway, there were plenty of Orthodox, though perha
53 CastropRauxel: At what point did I talk about 2008? last year LH pushed NYC forward with good fares, which are no longer being offered. LH understood that the compe
54 El Al 001: You definitely made your point... Im so sorry if you got offended and even more sorry for refering to 2008 figures. My mistake.
55 CastropRauxel: Dear, I'm not here to pick a fight. as an Israeli, you should know better than to paint a picture as if Israelis fly to NYC because of the large jewi
56 Hardiwv: And here is the official press release: http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/English/HidePages/sau_paulo_en120209 First Ever Scheduled Direct Flights between Is
57 PPVRA: Remember who we are dealing with, so there's an easy alternative: incompetence. What a shocker, eh? Seriously though, we know how military people thi
58 Hardiwv: We still have to handle the incompetence of non-military officials taking care of Brazil's airports, see the under-(miss)investment in major airports
59 Hardiwv: Some more info on El Al operations in GRU to start in March 2009: - El Al CEO Haim Romano gave a press conference at Sofitel Hotel in Sao Paulo and no
60 AM744: Sorry for the hair splitting, but I think El-Al had scheduled flights to MEX in the 70s.
61 Hardiwv: I think before El Al opens any other destination in Latin America (MEX or EZE), the focus will be on consolidating GRU and increasing flights from 3 w
62 IAD380: I agree. LY is launching this route during a major economic downturn. There is no guarantee that this route will be profitable, or that El Al will sti
63 United787: The distances are interesting when looking at the Great Circle Mapper: TLV-GRU - 5723 nm (direct route can't be used by El Al) TLV-LIS-GRU - 6447 nm (
64 Hardiwv: Most of the traffic Israel-Brazil is via MAD (IB), LH (FRA and MUC) and AF (CDG). In fact IB released information that about 85% of its load MAD-TLV