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El Al's TLV-GRU Now Loaded!  
User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10741 times:

El Al had uploaded today its operation to GRU on all systems.
First direct schedule operation between Israel and Latin america will commence on May 2nd on 3 weekly basis.
Flights to GRU are to be operated non-stop with 772s

Flights details as follow:
LY 009 (SAT, MON, WED) ETD TLV 21:45 ETA GRU 06:30+1 14:45 772
LY010 (SUN, TUE, THU) ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 14:55+1 13:40 772

Mazal Tov El Al!

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10689 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
Mazal Tov El Al!

Congrats  Smile  Smile


User currently offlineRAFFIK From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10598 times:

That's great news for El Al!
Glad to see the 777 on the route, a fine aircraft indeed!

Do travellers from Israel connect through FRA or MAD to get to Latin America? Or do they take EL ALs service to JFK and connect through there? Sorry to be ignorant on this matter! Just curious to see , that's all!  Big grin



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10592 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
Flights details as follow:
LY 009 (SAT, MON, WED) ETD TLV 21:45 ETA GRU 06:30+1 14:45 772
LY010 (SUN, TUE, THU) ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 14:55+1 13:40 772

Actually, isn't it loaded like this?

LY 009 (SAT) ETD TLV 22:45 ETA GRU 07:30+1 14:45 772
LY 009 (MON, WED) ETD TLV 21:45 ETA GRU 06:30+1 14:45 772
LY010 (SUN, TUE, THU) ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 14:55+1 13:40 772


User currently offlineEmptyarm From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10495 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):

Does IB fly to TLV? It doesn't show up on their website as a destination...

They do, and fill the flights up with connecting passengers from Latin America and the US (flying via MAD is much cheaper than the non stop flights).

Besides, LY gets many IB connecting passengers in MAD through the code-share agreement they have with IB


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10405 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
LY 009 (SAT) ETD TLV 22:45 ETA GRU 07:30+1 14:45 772
LY 009 (MON, WED) ETD TLV 21:45 ETA GRU 06:30+1 14:45 772
LY010 (SUN, TUE, THU) ETD GRU 19:15 ETA TLV 14:55+1 13:40 772

Only on certain Saturdays when Shabbat goes out in TLV as late as 20:00+ to allow orthodox jews to get on the flights (May to July)
LY wanted the ETA at GRU at 07:30 so the schedule would then be united but did not get the desired slots at GRU.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10310 times:



Quoting RAFFIK (Reply 2):
Or do they take EL ALs service to JFK and connect through there?

I'm sure Continental does a decent amount of feed through EWR.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10293 times:



Quoting El Al 001 (Reply 5):
Only on certain Saturdays when Shabbat goes out in TLV as late as 20:00+ to allow orthodox jews to get on the flights (May to July)
LY wanted the ETA at GRU at 07:30 so the schedule would then be united but did not get the desired slots at GRU.

I see.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 6):
I'm sure Continental does a decent amount of feed through EWR.

Very unlikely.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2400 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10256 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):
Very unlikely.

You would be very surprised. If the price is right, passengers will and do connect via the U.S.. I myself have seen passengers doing this routing.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10206 times:



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 8):

You would be very surprised. If the price is right, passengers will and do connect via the U.S.. I myself have seen passengers doing this routing.

There are enough competitive fares through Europe, most importantly there are enough competitive schedules, which is something not offered in the US. Not even JJ's daylight flights are really connectable to flights to TLV.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9974 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 8):
You would be very surprised. If the price is right, passengers will and do connect via the U.S.. I myself have seen passengers doing this routing

Connection thru the US demand a Visa (for Brazilians) that costs US$ 130.00 for people that lives in BSB, SAO, RIO or REC. If they are from city's outside, put the day off and the trip to a consulate/embassy to get the visa.
Do you think it's really a good deal to travel thru the US ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9002 times:

I'm sure IB takes a huge chunk of this market.

User currently offlineJmbarros12 From Brazil, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8922 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Do you think it's really a good deal to travel thru the US ?

Not to mention the time spent on board thru US. I believe that it would take additional 4-6 hours to complete the trip than connecting thru Europe.



Go Boeing!
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 11):
I'm sure IB takes a huge chunk of this market.
Sorry to ask but...

Is there any market (outside of Buenos Aires and São Paulo, and even these are not that big) to get a chunk of in the first place?

BTW, since the plane sits in GRU for most of the day, wouldn't it make sense to have a leg down to EZE? Buenos Aires has the largest Jewish population in South America, larger than São Paulo actually.

[Edited 2009-02-09 06:04:42]

User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8572 times:



Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 13):
wouldn't it make sense to have a leg down to EZE? Buenos Aires has the largest Jewish population in South America, larger than São Paulo actually.

It seems to me they are not targeting the Jewish population, but SAO large economic base which is still going to vigorously grow during 2009. They are indeed LatAm powerhouse and LY wants to be there for the profit that makes, not to carry VFF.



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

If LY can ensure that its pax will be able to connect easily to EZE through lots of SPAs and other special interline agreements in the right prices - not continuing to EZE is the right decision. Im sure LY evaluated a possible termination at EZE rather than at GRU. But, who knows, maybe they'll go for it when time comes.

All those one stop services cost a fortune for LY and no doubt the airline learned something from the bad experience it had with it over the past.

Last one stop service was ORD via YYZ (ceased 2 years ago).


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8519 times:



Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 14):
They are indeed LatAm powerhouse and LY wants to be there for the profit that makes, not to carry VFF

I understand your point but most of biz ties between Israel and foreign countries (especially immigrant societies like North and South America) is faith/religion/ethnic based.

Do you think that the ridiculously high demand between NYC and TLV is just because it's New York? Don't you agree that the HUGE Jewish pop in NY metro has something to do with it (both for biz and VFF traffic)?

Not to mention that the VFF crowd could always fill the back of the plane.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8488 times:



Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 16):
Do you think that the ridiculously high demand between NYC and TLV is just because it's New York? Don't you agree that the HUGE Jewish pop in NY metro has something to do with it (both for biz and VFF traffic)?

New York City is the only city in the world that has a large enough Jewish population to justify flights to TLV. Regarding most flights to TLV, Jewish population isn't a huge factor (see: LY ending service to ORD and MIA).


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

What are the route restrictions for this particular flight?
I'm assuming it will be routed over the Mediteranean directly due west over Spain then south.


User currently offlineTodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8316 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
see: LY ending service to ORD and MIA

Regarding MIA, the flights were full... The operation was abandoned because the old 767s used for the route made it unprofitable. At least, that's what was said at the time of the decision.



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1567 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8280 times:

Anyone know how many travelers there are between S. America and Israel? I imagine the VFF factor (ex-LA'ns going back) and Catholic/religious travel bring it up.


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8266 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 18):

What are the route restrictions for this particular flight?
I'm assuming it will be routed over the Mediteranean directly due west over Spain then south.

The great circle route is over much of north africa.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=TLV-GRU

5723nm in total.


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8221 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 18):
I'm assuming it will be routed over the Mediteranean directly due west over Spain then south.

True.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 20):
Anyone know how many travelers there are between S. America and Israel? I imagine the VFF factor (ex-LA'ns going back) and Catholic/religious travel bring it up.

More than 200k per annual, leaves a lot of room for LY before stimulation..


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2400 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8185 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Do you think it's really a good deal to travel thru the US ?



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
There are enough competitive fares through Europe, most importantly there are enough competitive schedules, which is something not offered in the US. Not even JJ's daylight flights are really connectable to flights to TLV.

Yes, I am aware of all of that. What both of you fail to realize is that there are passengers that connect through the U.S.. Of course it is a MUCH smaller percentage than the amount through Europe. And not all passengers are Brazilian passengers that require a visa to transit.

Again, I am saying there is a small amount of traffic carried through the U.S.. You cannot sit there and tell me that there are NO passengers that transit through U.S. points on there way to South America when I see them while I work these flights.

Ta Legal?



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8178 times:



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 21):
The great circle route is over much of north africa.

Several of which I'm sure they can't overfly, for example Libya. Like a few of their other routes, there will probably be some detours from the shortest routing. LY TLV-BKK flights take about 2 hours longer than if they could fly the most direct route.


25 Planenutz : Viscount724 is correct. ELAL doesn;t have overflight permission from Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Sudan, or Niger. I also believe they cannpt fly over muc
26 LipeGIG : Rio. El Al use to keep their office in Rio and should be because of market size. As a Brazilian i expect this but to be more realistic, i wouldn't ex
27 IAD380 : If El Al decides in the future to add EZE as its second destination in South America, would it necessarily be an add-on to the GRU flight? Does the 7
28 C010T3 : Well, LY's presence is so small that it doesn't make sense to have more than one yet. LY's operation costs are so high that they need to save somewhe
29 Incitatus : Because most high ranking military in the Brazilian Air Force were from Rio and did not want to see the gateway role of GIG undermined. The group of
30 LipeGIG : Was not wise and at the same time was wise. Giving current market conditions, to maintain two offices for a 3x weekly service. Looking this way, soun
31 C010T3 : I'm sorry, but can you prove your accusations?
32 IAD380 : I agree with you. I question whether now is the time to launch this route. Let's wait and see whether El Al is still operating TLV-GRU two, three, or
33 CastropRauxel : mostly MAD. of course other european airlines such as LH, LX, AF and BA take a bite as well, but the biggest gateway is definitely MAD. some airlines
34 Airbazar : Brazilian passport holders aren't the only ones flying these routes. Not to mention that many Brazilians also have a passport from another country wh
35 Rafabozzolla : He most probably can't present hard facts. But it is common knowledge that FAB top raking officials did what they could to prevent traffic flow shift
36 LipeGIG : No, they are not the only ones, but they are the majority. If a person (Brazilian) holds another passport, the chance of a need to fly to Israel thru
37 C010T3 : That's a lie. T1 was at capacity while T2 was being built. Only afterwards, GIG's traffic declined in favor of SDU, CGH and GRU.
38 Rafabozzolla : It's not. But anyway... Is there a reason other than the military from Rio undermining GRU to explain why São Paulo was neglected in favor of Rio?
39 Semsem : Raffik: Yes many connect in Frankfurt with LH or Madrid with IB. Until a few years ago LY and TAP were operating to Lisbon and that was also a connect
40 RJpieces : I disagree. Your argument is circular logic. NYC-TLV traffic doesn't consist solely of Israelis travelling to NYC. The fact is that the NYC area has
41 RJpieces : And on another related note, which European airlines do the most connecting traffic from TLV to N. America? I would guess Swiss, Lufthansa, and Britis
42 Airbazar : You guys talk as if Jewish people are the only ones traveling to Israel. There's a lot of travel to Israel from Christians, visiting Jerusalem. Chris
43 RJpieces : In my reply 17, I directly stated that Jewish population is not a huge factor. But I maintain that NYC-TLV is an exception because of the huge Jewish
44 CastropRauxel : Of course it is a strech, which is why I never said that... sure there is an effect, but it's much less significant than you think or portray here. t
45 El Al 001 : Do you have an MIDT or BSP or whatever data to support that?
46 NYC2TLV : That is not true. From both EWR and JFK to TLV there have been fares by all non-stop carriers (LY, DL and CO) of $727 including all fuel and taxes. T
47 CastropRauxel : Better: actual passenger figures. on LH691 TLV-FRA today, no passenger continued to JFK, only 1 to EWR. on the other hand, 5 continued to SFO, 6 to I
48 El Al 001 : So? I think you are being a bit arrogance with this. Watching some aggrigated numbers reffering to LH TLV O&D traffic data for 2008 will drive you to
49 NYC2TLV : The point I was getting at was that so many people try to deny a connection between El Al destinations and the size of the Jewish market. My point wa
50 Hardiwv : Thanks for the news. According to IB information more than 80% of IB loads to TLV originate from EZE, GRU, MEX and GIG. Finalising the flight in GRU i
51 Amirs : WHAT???? PARIS ? Mostly because of community LONDON ? Mix like NY LOS ANGELES ? Mostly for the community
52 RJpieces : Hmm, I've only flown CO EWR-TLV once, and I didn't notice THAT much of a difference. On my flight anyway, there were plenty of Orthodox, though perha
53 CastropRauxel : At what point did I talk about 2008? last year LH pushed NYC forward with good fares, which are no longer being offered. LH understood that the compe
54 El Al 001 : You definitely made your point... Im so sorry if you got offended and even more sorry for refering to 2008 figures. My mistake.
55 CastropRauxel : Dear, I'm not here to pick a fight. as an Israeli, you should know better than to paint a picture as if Israelis fly to NYC because of the large jewi
56 Post contains links Hardiwv : And here is the official press release: http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/English/HidePages/sau_paulo_en120209 First Ever Scheduled Direct Flights between Is
57 PPVRA : Remember who we are dealing with, so there's an easy alternative: incompetence. What a shocker, eh? Seriously though, we know how military people thi
58 Hardiwv : We still have to handle the incompetence of non-military officials taking care of Brazil's airports, see the under-(miss)investment in major airports
59 Post contains links Hardiwv : Some more info on El Al operations in GRU to start in March 2009: - El Al CEO Haim Romano gave a press conference at Sofitel Hotel in Sao Paulo and no
60 AM744 : Sorry for the hair splitting, but I think El-Al had scheduled flights to MEX in the 70s.
61 Hardiwv : I think before El Al opens any other destination in Latin America (MEX or EZE), the focus will be on consolidating GRU and increasing flights from 3 w
62 IAD380 : I agree. LY is launching this route during a major economic downturn. There is no guarantee that this route will be profitable, or that El Al will sti
63 United787 : The distances are interesting when looking at the Great Circle Mapper: TLV-GRU - 5723 nm (direct route can't be used by El Al) TLV-LIS-GRU - 6447 nm (
64 Hardiwv : Most of the traffic Israel-Brazil is via MAD (IB), LH (FRA and MUC) and AF (CDG). In fact IB released information that about 85% of its load MAD-TLV
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