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Here WE Go - SWA To Atlanta?  
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15405 times:

Sources from Dallas indicate Southwest will meet sometime THIS week with Atlanta folks about potential new services sometime later this year or in 2010. Not sure where exactly WN thinks they will operate from but guess if Delta plans on moving some flights to MEM, CVG, DTW or MSP - they may have the opportunity to gain access to 7-10 gates and maybe make an impression in the ATL market. This could get VERY interesting. Certainly not much of a fan of WN - but then again - why not bring on some real competition domestically??

137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15388 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Thread starter):
why not bring on some real competition domestically??

isn't that what AirTran has been doing? Honestly.. how high would fares be if DL were the only cat in town? I think the ATL already has it well.. not saying WN shouldn't come.. but I don't think they are going to be the "savior" like they would be at other fortress hubs...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15360 times:

Now this will be interesting.. Would love to see how low those fares will drop and see how DL can survive the WN effect on its routes... and for the record I'm also not a fan of WN but I will go for them any day over DL  Smile

User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15339 times:

Personally I am a Delta flyer and could care less about WN - BUT must say that there is no problem with additional competition considering the NEW size of Delta and AirTran may eventually succumb to the forces of the economy and be a takeover target of the likes of a WN.

User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15340 times:

WN meets with airports of all sizes with dependable frequency. What indicates this is any different than the others?

User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15312 times:

This is ATL - not some out of the ordinary airport and city. PLUS - considering the economic woes of everyone - for ANY airline of ANY size or name to make a visit - that makes one BIG statement!

User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15288 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Thread starter):
Sources from Dallas indicate Southwest will meet sometime THIS week with Atlanta folks about potential new services sometime later this year or in 2010. Not sure where exactly WN thinks they will operate from but guess if Delta plans on moving some flights to MEM, CVG, DTW or MSP - they may have the opportunity to gain access to 7-10 gates and maybe make an impression in the ATL market.

Uhh, I doubt that they will have 7-10 gates. If so - I am sure that AirTran would snatch a majority of them up in a heartbeat granted if they can use them efficiently.



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15162 times:

It's just a matter of time before we see WN at all major cities in the US. They have to try to keep growing, and there just aren't many options for expansion left. They're already in DEN and MSP, two big cities they'd avoided for years. ATL is coming. LGA is coming. Then what? MKE maybe, Even BOS? HNL or ANC would stretch their model, but after these few cities, there just isn't much left. Maybe a couple of smaller places... DSM? After that, they're going to have to look to Mexico and/or Canada... it should be interesting.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15147 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 3):
Personally I am a Delta flyer and could care less about WN - BUT must say that there is no problem with additional competition considering the NEW size of Delta and AirTran may eventually succumb to the forces of the economy and be a takeover target of the likes of a WN.

WN would love to get more gates at other DL hubs like SLC.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15147 times:



Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 2):
Now this will be interesting.. Would love to see how low those fares will drop and see how DL can survive the WN effect on its routes... and for the record I'm also not a fan of WN but I will go for them any day over DL Smile



Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 2):
Personally I am a Delta flyer and could care less about WN - BUT must say that there is no problem with additional competition considering the NEW size of Delta and AirTran may eventually succumb to the forces of the economy and be a takeover target of the likes of a WN.

I know I'm going to get flagged..but wow. Just wow.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15148 times:



Quoting Airnerd (Reply 7):
They have to try to keep growing, and there just aren't many options for expansion lef

There are much more lucrative (from a competition and yield standpoint) in smaller markets than in larger cities.

Quoting FFlyerWorld (Reply 5):
This is ATL - not some out of the ordinary airport and city. PLUS - considering the economic woes of everyone - for ANY airline of ANY size or name to make a visit - that makes one BIG statement!

They entertain airports of all sizes all day long. This doesn't necessarily mean anything. Though it could be the meeting to close the deal.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4715 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15073 times:

Even though i'm a loyal delta flier, Id love for WN to come to ATL and keep DL honest on fares to places FL doesnt fly.

I havent used PVD in years because DL wants $5-600+ r/t to fly on a CRJ

for work I've flown many times to LIT, we'd often pay over $1,000 for a fare that had the same mileage perks of a discount coach ticket.

Ive had to go to HSV 3 times in the past 4 months and we drive every time, because $800 x 3 its just insane (i know WN wont fix this, but this is the story for anywhere that FL doesnt go)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4067 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15034 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 10):
There are much more lucrative (from a competition and yield standpoint) in smaller markets than in larger cities.

And those markets do not support the type of high frequency 737 service that Southwest especializes in offering.



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User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14910 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 12):
And those markets do not support the type of high frequency 737 service that Southwest especializes in offering.

BOI, RNO & GEG are the rare exception in the far west, although there are a few others in Texas. WN loves older airports (HOU, DAL, MDW) that are close to downtown in larger markets, or an outlying airport (ISP) or those that have significantly lowered their costs (DEN).



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14877 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 12):
And those markets do not support the type of high frequency 737 service that Southwest especializes in offering.

And big city markets don't offer the fast-turnaround service that Southwest specializes in offering.  Smile


User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14847 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 9):

I know I'm going to get flagged..but wow. Just wow.

I know very wow considering I didnt post the second half of what you quoted.

Also considering who you are it doesn't surprise me about your response about anything against DL.


User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3188 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14832 times:

Things have changed a bit at ATL with the addtion of a new runway.*

If you consider the quanity O & D traffic at ATL then WN would not have to do much "cherry picking" of SLF off of DL & FL to handle the emplanements that 7 gates would allow.*

I just checked pricing this week from OKC-ATL-OKC, AA & DL were both well overpriced, it would have been nice to have had a WN option.*

Obviously ATL will become good fit when DAL becomes available as a connector. MDW would seem pretty good as well.*

Okie


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4715 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14693 times:

IF IF IF WN were to enter ATL, there are a couple more "stable footings" they could use rather than dive right into BWI MDW MCO HOU.

BNA - incredibly suppressed O&D, no LCC stimulus, and a WN friendly market

AUS - same as above, only smaller and futher, but still good

so BNA 5x and AUS 2x then 3-4x BWI and 3-4x MDW for optimal network coverage and a balanced portfolio to start.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14652 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 17):
IF IF IF WN were to enter ATL, there are a couple more "stable footings" they could use rather than dive right into BWI MDW MCO HOU.

BNA - incredibly suppressed O&D, no LCC stimulus, and a WN friendly market

AUS - same as above, only smaller and futher, but still good

so BNA 5x and AUS 2x then 3-4x BWI and 3-4x MDW for optimal network coverage and a balanced portfolio to start.

Not sure about AUS, but the rest are about right. I'd bet on HOU too.

No need for more than two gates, in other words. And minimal competitive impact on the market, except the BNA local O&D.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2907 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14596 times:

I don't think anyone expected SWA to become one of DEN's largest carriers after just a few years of service. There you had a major network carrier with a primary hub as well as a very popular hometown LCC. ATL has the EXACT same competitive landscape. Imagine what ATL could look like in a few years... stirthepot 
I think ATL and perhaps even MSP offer WN similar opportunities to rapidly expand in what was/is traditionally perceived to be an extremely competitive market. Let's also not forget Southwest's successful foray into PHL not too long ago....



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14464 times:

It was only a matter of time that this would manifest. To alleviate delays and increase flow the added runway in ATL is a new pull, but moreso, and you all can find the posts since this has been discussed here, the amount of ATL addresses on SWA's BHM intineraries is pretty high. I don't think like years and years ago when the fortress known as ATL was dominated and best described as "David and Goliath," but there are certain markets that SWA period over period does track such info for future flight possibilities. AirTran has done very well in creating an overall balance I believe nowadays in ATL compared to 5 or 10 years ago and I found odd that just even last week they released a statement saying they in the future, they'd most likely reduce some of their ATL capacity to seek opportunities elsewhere.

Demonstrating the ATL vs BHM theory and considered distances and flight choices, nobody believed me long time ago when I said SWA was going into PHL, nobody believed me but in college having one of our 5 roommates who interned with SWA twice, he shared highlights of some of the work he had been doing. Specifically, one project was just this and he spent time in BWI analyzing the amount of traffic that BWI saw from its larger counterpart to the north, the city of brotherhood. I remember those numbers were huge, and I for one admit that many a time when I'd travel PHX-PHL what 4 or 5 times a year, for a while there because of fares, I'd fly into BWI, get a rental car, and even with what, not even a 90 min drive to where I was headed into Philly, and still, I didn't even spend the amount I would solely on the PHL ticket just to begin with.

Everybody talks about the "SWA effect" and there is also a "kick effect" I call it for competing airlines because specifically, I know because it was who I flew and traveled on and just know the airline, but America West reaped the benefits for a while after SWA went into BWI because they were flying their B757 in there on 3 of 4 PHX rotations and the 4th flight was a night flight eastbound. When SWA enters markets as such, all airlines really see period over period increased traffic, they most likely though don't see the same in profits vs revenue because their costs are no where near what SWA can get the job done for, and that's why over time airlines retrench from competing toe-to-toe with SWA.

It was only a matter of time for ATL to appear on their radar, just like many others in the past and the announcement this week we all are awaiting regarding the LGA service. LGA, come on, SWA? But then again, think about SFO reentry, DEN, PHL, IAD, MSP and it's only a matter of time until here we are talking about SWA and BOS service, only time and we will all be doing it.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14321 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 19):
ATL has the EXACT same competitive landscape.

Except for the fact that DL's ATL hub is well over TWICE the size of UA"s DEN hub and AirTran's is over TWICE the size of F9's. Oh and DL is more financially stable than UA and FL is more financially stable than F9. And, of course, DL is a lower cost operator than UA and FL is a lower cost operator than F9.

Other than those minor points, "ATL has the EXACT same competitive landscape."


User currently offlineAirportGuy1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14244 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):
FL is a lower cost operator than F9.

Seriously? I was of the opinion that F9 has the Lowest CASM ex-fuel of pretty much anyone out there right now... Where is it shown that FL has lower costs?


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13656 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):
Except for the fact that DL's ATL hub is well over TWICE the size of UA"s DEN hub and AirTran's is over TWICE the size of F9's. Oh and DL is more financially stable than UA and FL is more financially stable than F9. And, of course, DL is a lower cost operator than UA and FL is a lower cost operator than F9.

Other than those minor points, "ATL has the EXACT same competitive landscape."

That's fine and all...but I don't think it really is much of a deterrent to WN. I for one can't wait to see Southwest shake up Atlanta - whether this rumor proves to be true or not.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13432 times:



Quoting FFlyerWorld (Thread starter):
they may have the opportunity to gain access to 7-10 gates and maybe make an impression in the ATL market

While the possibility certainly exists for WN to serve ATL, it is very unlikely barring serious finnancial hardship for DL and an almost total collapse of FL that WN will be able to access that many gates and then fill them with that many passengers. Delta is significantly larger at ATL than UA has ever been at Denver and at the time WN entered wasn't UA still in bankruptcy? PHL is a little different because how many here thought US was about to collapse?

WN will come, but IMHO it will not be the local market they are serving for the most part.


25 Jetlanta : No? Then why will ATL be the LAST major market in the country without WN service? Seems like the evidence is clear that WN has already been deterred.
26 PHLBOS : UA exited bankrupcy a few years ago BEFORE WN entered (or I should say re-entered) DEN. I'm not sure but it may have been F9 that either entered Chap
27 FlyPNS1 : I tend to agree. WN will likely have a presence in ATL, but I don't think it will change things that much. WN has been in DTW for long time now, but
28 Drerx7 : We are talking about WN of today. Of course they stayed away from ATL...just like they stayed out of DEN, PHL, and LGA. Your analysis is decent howev
29 0NEWAIR0 : There's a diagram floating around (i'd give you the numbers it showes but I can't find my copy) that showes AirTran has the lowest CASM in the U.S. i
30 Stburke : That's changing quick. WN had nothing to do with the bankruptcy, it was directly related to a credit card processor that decided to hold 50% of funds
31 Mayor : Well, not exactly. I can remember, quite a few years ago...before I retired, that WN was going to start an operation at ATL and for some reason, they
32 Post contains links Vivavegas : Southwest is up to something TODAY. Seeing some mysterious "tweets" - http://twitter.com/SouthwestAir "I have a few more "twiddles" to send out, curio
33 Incitatus : In the current context that Delta is threatening the city of Atlanta with a reduction of service at ATL the story is REALLY about Delta too. Let's no
34 Jetlanta : Exactly. No way in hell, is more like it. You are correct, I am negating the feed on the other end. I'm negating it because low-fare service exists n
35 Luckyone : Unless you're talking about business travelers (who are purported to bring in the money) who rarely check bags now anyway. Look no further than the h
36 SuseJ772 : I find that AirTran is a fairly "expensive" LCC. Now don't go quoting me ridiculous fares you can find - I know they are out there. But compared to F
37 Drerx7 : I didn't contradict myself - you must have my post confused with someone else.
38 CatIII : Probably LGA...
39 RL757PVD : WN wouldnt be looking to connect anyone in ATL. They would need to find the most efficent way to tie ATL into their network, while also maximizing po
40 Cubsrule : I think we're pretty close to that point, or we wouldn't have seen MSP and LGA recently. I don't know. It's not that far, and it's a pretty easy driv
41 FlyASAGuy2005 : More than once i've tried to fly WN to multitple cities only to find out that their fare was just as high and sometimes higher than similar LCCs or t
42 Luckyone : Personally, I have a five hour rule. If it takes less than five hours to drive, I won't fly because it doesn't save any time to fly when one consider
43 Cubsrule : It's generally true when they open a new city. It's when the city's been open a while that things start to change.
44 0NEWAIR0 : People will vote with their feet. If the traveling public doesn't "always" choose the airline with no baggage fees over the airline that does (if, of
45 Quickmover : I've said it before and I'll say it again. Southwest will use the playbook from DEN on this one. Look at the similarities. UA=DL, F9=FL, DEN=big unser
46 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would have to strongly disagree. DL in ATL is a different animal than UA's ops in DEN. to an extent it's comparable but when you get to the meat an
47 Mayor : I really don't know the figures, but can someone tell me the percentage of passengers that DL is connecting in ATL, compared to terminating? I wouldn'
48 Drerx7 : To connect BNA to ATL would be an easy way to link ATL to the WN network as well as BWI, PHX, HOU, MDW etc. While the Nashville to Atlanta drive isn'
49 XJETFlyer : I do not fly eaither one of the airlines unless i'm forced to. With that being said, I love the fact that SWA will bring competetion to ATL!
50 Post contains images Timaay419 : You mention this in almost every thread, as a way of saying other airlines have a competitive advantage over WN. Southwest isn't going after the peop
51 Lexy : Count me as one of them. I would much rather fly than drive. The drive is terribly boring and the traffic is a pain for the most part. It can be espe
52 FlyASAGuy2005 : Agreed. What they do is no different than what every carrier does (deeply discounted fares). It is very easy to find $59-99 on DL or other carriers t
53 Lexy : Also, DL has a pretty large FF base in Nashville and is also home to Crown Room. DL has has a following here that WN would really have to penetrate to
54 Flighty : The bottom line for me is that WN is slowly realizing how profitable it is to serve major USA metropolises. We might also add New York City, which is
55 FrmrCAPCADET : Remember that WN has that war chest, and is likely to use it opportunistically as gates come up for sale in areas they want to expand. Their impact on
56 Luckyone : Where is the unserved market? ATL doesn't have one of endless streams of O&D in the US. There is a lot, but it's not NYC or LA-style. It is home to t
57 Flighty : Delta charges somewhat monopolistic fares across a wide part of the world. That is the whole reason they merged with NW and got ATI with KLM / Air Fr
58 GSPSPOT : I thought WN (like some other LCC's) would rather go into a smaller nearby airport and draw from the larger airport's pax pool. After WN went into BHM
59 PHLBOS : Since this past holiday season was the first year that airlines imposed a fee for the 2nd and FIRST checked bags; I'd be very curious to see/know how
60 SuseJ772 : Mine is usually four. Sort of. Usually the fares are the same (or around the same) given the same route. What I mean is that F9/WN seem to be more su
61 Airfrnt : There are some poeple here in deep deep denial. F9's bankruptcy happened well after WN entered the market. This is changing radically quickly. F9's pe
62 Timaay419 : I understand what you're saying now, and it may have some truth to it. It would be interesting to see how many times the LCC starts a fare sale vs. h
63 Par13del : When planning a trip, folks always shop around, because of carriers like WN and the last economic airline tool Chpt.11, a lot of legacy carriers now
64 Quickmover : Thank you Timaay419. Should have said big market not served by WN.
65 Wwtraveler99 : Quote from SLCUT2777: "WN would love to get more gates at other DL hubs like SLC." Where do you get this from? WN has reduced service there over the l
66 DeltaLVr : Im living in Atlanta and just moved from Philly a year ago. Love flying with Delta, but you never really get that warm feeling like you do with Southw
67 AAflyguy : WN, if it chooses to enter the "real" ATL market (meaning not BHM or any other airport within 2-hours drive), it will provide competition in a market
68 Cubsrule : See below, though... I don't think there's any question that there will be some effect on local demand if WN enters BNA-ATL. The question is what far
69 Jetlanta : It's not. One of the largest LCC hubs in the WORLD is located at ATL. How could it possibly be "price gouged"? Except....ATL is not unserved! See abo
70 Cubsrule : I agree with you that this should be true, but if it is true, why does FL stay away from WN besides for Florida routes?
71 SuseJ772 : To that I respond as I did in Reply #60... Just because there is an LCC doesn't mean that it gets the same "Southwest-effect" of airfare. If DL is se
72 FlyPNS1 : No offense, but your observations are off. Average airfares to/thru ATL are quite cheap for any city pair where FL is present. Trust me, FL didn't gr
73 FlyPNS1 : Because in entrenched markets like BWI and MDW, WN has such a strong grip, it's tough for a new entrant to break in. FL's business class is a benefit
74 Post contains links Jetlanta : Because it is quite a different thing to take on WN in an established market, isn't it? I don't exactly see WN rushing into other AirTran markets eit
75 Post contains links PHLBOS : I have 2 reponses for your reply to my earlier post: 1. Thanks for the correction/clarification regarding the timing of F9's Chapter 11 filing w/resp
76 DeltaL1011man : Boy these threads are starting to become the next "When will DL......I mean NW start retiring the DC-9s" Airlines meet with citys all the time. This i
77 Drerx7 : BNA
78 SuseJ772 : No offense taken. Like I said above, I freely admitted I could be wrong. I'd still be curious to see (which I know isn't really possible) average far
79 DeltaL1011man : wow really? I thought FL had 1-2x daily.
80 Drerx7 : Nope - from what I understand BNA and FL have bad blood stemming from Valujet days...I believe Lexy is the resident BNAer here with more accurate inf
81 Cubsrule : Supposedly, the bad blood is done; FL can come back to BNA whenever they like. That suggests, though, that it really isn't about the product that eit
82 Lexy : Really nothing to add to this as you did a fine job of explaining it. I will say this, according to some, the MNAA has relaxed their stance on the pa
83 Chi-town : Personally, I fly based on price and I could care less about Delta
84 LoneStarMike : You can add AUS as another FL-less market. Other cities where WN is and FL isn't include OKC, TUL, PDX, OAK, GEG, BOI, SJC, ABQ, SLC, ORF, SDF, and B
85 MDW84 : I had heard rumours of them meeting with officials at CHT as well as ATL...Im wondering which WN would start service to first..either one would appear
86 Lexy : CHT? Chillicothe Municipal Airport? What airport is that.
87 MDW84 : sorry I had a typo CLT...I dunno why I typed CHT must have been a brainfart...I can see both coming in the near future however, and both would be smar
88 GSPSPOT : I still say GSP would be cheaper way to gain access to a wider region (see my previous post), and WN would have a virtual lock on the market here. Wh
89 Lexy : I don't think GSP is really large enough for WN, especially considering their past new cities. Perhaps a few more years of growth in that market would
90 Rampguy : Several years ago, I thought I heard a rumor that if WN every started service to Atlanta, that they would not come into Hartsfield/Jackson, but rather
91 STT757 : WN has basically thrown that old strategy of using secondary airport out the window, PHL, LGA, LAX and SFO should be proof positive.
92 MSYtristar : In terms of PDK...The NIMBY's would never allow that to happen. Fulton County....probably not as much oppostion....but the infrastructure there is no
93 GSPSPOT : BHM? JAN? Anyone....anyone? Again, I'm not necessarily saying GSP's immediate surroundings could support service (although I know they could), but th
94 MSYtristar : I think the issue really is that nowadays WN seems to be going for major markets....DEN, MSP, LGA upcoming....it seems like the days of serving the B
95 GSPSPOT : Not to belabor the point, but that's why I took pains to mention the vast catchment area that comes along with GSP (esp. if substantially lower fares
96 MSYtristar : I still don't think it matters right now. They want the exposure at the larger airports.
97 FlyASAGuy2005 : Let's not forget the press release that drew so much attention on the boards a few weeks ago quoting the Southwest boss when he said that they have a
98 GSPSPOT : You'd think they'd want EASY money, rather than duke it out with established legacies AND LCC's in these other markets. I guess I'm just not getting
99 ATLgaUSA : The Greenville/Spartenburg metropolitan area is less than half the size of the Birmingham metropolitan area. Birmingham is more on par with Louisvill
100 GSPSPOT : Unless they've changed how that's measured, the metro's are (or used to be) almost identical in population. I'd also dare to say the GSP market is mo
101 ATLgaUSA : I don't believe they have recently changed the way metropolitan area populations are measured. Below is a link to wikipedia's list of United States Me
102 Post contains links Cubsrule : Those numbers are incorrect- Greenville and Spartanburg are now separate MSAs, but both use GSP. Greenville is somewhere close to the number you cite
103 GSPSPOT : Thank you! I knew something had changed recently. Splitting the MSA's gives a VERY incomplete view. My opinions stand. If the likes of BHM can make $
104 FlyASAGuy2005 : I don't think it's a matter of WN not realizing potential of a particular market. The simple fact is that GSP was not high enough on their radar duri
105 Lexy : What is so special about Greenville, South Carolina that makes it appear WN is a fool for not being there??? On a national economic level, tourism le
106 Luckyone : Maybe it would be worth pointing out that Birmingham has a considerable medical and science field (read research) that is not nearly as present in GSP
107 Lexy : While I agree about BHM's medical facilities, I do not think that is a big generator of traffic. There are a number of larger medical cities just a fe
108 RampGuy : I really need to learn to proof read before clikcing the "post" button. I apologize for my typos. I meant to say that "if Southwest EVER started serv
109 GSPSPOT : I used to live in BHM. I was there when Bellsouth, Rust Engineering and Southern Company Services cut WAY back (or left altogether). Also, while ther
110 Lexy : Well, you still have failed to show us why WN is a fool for not being in that market already. What larger cities would you consider "below" GSP? I'm
111 Cubsrule : One thing worth keeping in mind (though I don't know that it's dispositive) is that GSP is much further from Texas than BHM. When the WN network was
112 Luvfa : I think people are missing the point about GSP and WN. Just because we entered markets like SDF and BHM in the 80's and MHT, PVD in the late 90's, the
113 Cubsrule : It's an open question whether WN will ever be able to recover from their disasterous approach to the northeast, IMO. The Boston strategy was all righ
114 Luvfa :
115 Cubsrule : Agreed. I think going to LGA was exactly what WN needed to do. I just wonder whether, with respect to New York specifically, it's too little, too lat
116 MOBflyer : Luckyone said medical RESEARCH... which takes care of your top two lol.... Without a doubt, the I understand your point about WN and smaller markets,
117 ChrisNH : Delta has given the big middle finger to practically all airports in the northeastern United States not named 'JFK.' I applaud any move by Southwest t
118 Luckyone : What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
119 GSPSPOT : I'm not a data wonk, but all I can tell you is how it feels living in the GSP area vs BHM. BHM was a nice town, but GSP is on a whole different level
120 Luckyone : Living only an hour away from Greenville and having been there and Birmingham many times I would hazard a guess that your perception (not knocking it
121 GSPSPOT : And, I wasn't saying Greenville absolutely doesn't feel Southern at all. I said that compared to Birmingham, it didn't feel Southern. On a day-to-day
122 Cubsrule : You can't just add Greenville and Spartanburg, though. The airport serves more than Greenville and Spartanburg (e.g. Anderson).
123 Luckyone : I think it's fair to say that GSP could/would/can effectively serve the entire upstate. However, I don't see that happening on a large scale as GSP is
124 MOBflyer : Southwest doesn't care what it "feels like" in a city. They care about high yielding passengers. They care about data. They care about the fact that
125 Jetlanta : How in the world did this become a GSP vs. BHM discussion?
126 Lexy : That should answer your question.
127 MOBflyer : It should, but it is quite crazy the idea that GSP is equivalent to or greater than BHM from a economic standpoint.
128 Lexy : I tend to agree with this but I digress. Any reports about any type of meetings in ATL between the two entities??? We haven't heard an update about a
129 0NEWAIR0 : Hartsfield is the only Part 139 Class I airport in the metro area. They can't go anywhere else.
130 Flyboy7974 : Okay okay, not to toot own horn, but honestly, I've been driving back and forth to FLG past couple days and hopped on here just now, and couldn't bel
131 GSPSPOT : Why would BOS need MORE airline svc? In this economy?? There are other places that NEED more air service.
132 LoneStarMike : I don't think it's a question of BOS needing more airline service. I think it's a question of WN needing BOS as a destination because that's a place
133 GSPSPOT : Well, God bless all of 'em, I guess...
134 Lexy : That's precisely what it is!
135 LoneStarMike : deleted - posted in wrong thread. sorry. LoneStarMike[Edited 2009-02-19 20:09:30]
136 MOBflyer : The FAA won't entertain a Part 139 Class I classification proposal without a LOI from a certificated carrier that would require such classification.
137 MOBflyer : I don't think its a matter of BOS needing more air service as much as it is that WN is (for whatever reason) growing into these larger markets and BO
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