Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Could There Ever Be An L-1011 Revival?  
User currently offlineNitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 21673 times:

As a long time fan of the L-1011, I wish that it would be brought back into regular service. My question is: what about a complete revival of the beautiful L-1011? Meaning manufacturing completely new L-1011s! Maybe Tri-jets are dead, but the L-1011 has got to be the most elegant airliner ever  trophy 


En Buyuk Turkiye, Baska Buyuk Yok!
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3477 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21546 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

No question the L-1011 is a great plane,used to fly them on BA/SV/TWA and Eastern.
But sorry to say the days of Tri-jets are gone so did Lockheed.Airbus never produced a Tri-jet and Boeing only the 727.Another great Tri-jet were the McDonnell DC10 and the MD11 and they are not doing that well few passengers planes are still flying and few more are still used as cargo planes.I see no airplane manufacturer investing any money on a Tri-jet.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21476 times:

I also love the L-1011. I believe the RAF is still flying them for their military transport of troops.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
I see no airplane manufacturer investing any money on a Tri-jet.

Some are   ... Like Dassault....

http://hrjets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/dassault_falcon_7x.jpg

[Edited 2009-02-10 16:04:58]


Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2243 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21468 times:

I agree that it was an elegant looking jet. There was a dolphin type quality to the front. The front windows were huge. I was once lucky to sit in the jump seat and it was actually a bit freaky how big the window was beside the two jump seats. The doors that slid into the ceiling, the coat racks that disappeared into the overhead and the elevator into the lower galley was all things that made it my favourite plane to fly. Although dated now the Lockheed colours were great. First time I rode it AC still had a four seater table at the front of first class where you could get served your meal.

The three man crew and the overall lack of economy made the aircraft uneconomical. Since the B767, A330 family and 777 delivery much better performance with only two engines, there isn't a snowball's chance down where the devil roams, of a resurrection.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21475 times:



Quoting Nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
...manufacturing completely new L-1011s!

When Lockheed ceased production of the L-1011's in the early 1980's they took a "write off" (reduction in taxes) on the entire TriStar program. To receive the "write off" Lockheed had to destroy the tooling that was used to manufacture the L-1011. Therefore, there is no possible way for Lockheed to resume L-1011 production. If they did they would be required to pay the government back the "write off" money and they would have to rebuilt the tooling. Additionally the facility used for L-1011 production has been put to other uses.

However, having said that around 1990 Lockheed was approached by a group of Russian investors about purchasing the rights to manufacture the L-1011 in Russia. While the tooling was gone the blueprints for the tooling and the aircraft were still available. Preliminary talks were held and a couple of Lockheed teams visited the proposed production site. In the end the deal did not progress any further and any chance of future production of the L-1011 was lost.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21434 times:

presume most of L1011's were pulled form service due to 2 things:-

1) cost of fuel

2) age of aircraft, ie.. major checks like D check needed

With oil price back to normality, could perhaps someone start an airline (charter or scheduled) using L1011's ?

Or perhaps Dc10's, MD11's still have some life.

Don't OMNI INT & WORLD AIRWAYS still have quite a few pax DC10/MD11's in their resp fleets.

Bit like Allegiant ... don't drive them hard & they could have quite a few more years active service left.

Sure maintenacne costs might be high, but parts plentiful & cheap & acquisition costs very VERY low.

The likes of Air Transat used a lot of L1011's until a few years ago.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21364 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
But sorry to say the days of Tri-jets are gone so did Lockheed.Airbus never produced a Tri-jet and Boeing only the 727.

The only way a new trijet airliner is getting built is if one of the manufacturers decide to build a BWB. Otherwise, the center engine is far too compromising for a tube-wing configuration. Hanging two bigger engines under the wing will always be easier and even with the Ge90 we're not close to the limit of turbofan engine thrust. It has been speculated that the Trent and Ge90 cores could be scaled to 150-160 klbf with confidence.

Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 5):
With oil price back to normality, could perhaps someone start an airline (charter or scheduled) using L1011's ?

There are still about 30 still in operation. The chances of that number going up are virtually zero, IMO.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21276 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
There are still about 30 still in operation. The chances of that number going up are virtually zero, IMO.

As of December 31 2008 there were 16 L-1011's in service.


User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 470 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21268 times:

LockMart is out of the commercial aviation business for good. They have their plate full with defense aviation programs such as the C-130J, F-22 and F-35.

User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3477 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21253 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Vio (Reply 2):
Some are ... Like Dassault....

That is a new version of the Dassult 50 with only a maximum of 15 pax.
And it is used as a private plane and not an airliner.
If you want to buy one i will be more than happy to take a ride in it,and maybe Nitepilot79 can join us  cheeky 



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21162 times:



Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 8):
LockMart is out of the commercial aviation business for good.

Not actually true, they still provide engineering and technical support for both the L-1011 and L-188.


User currently offlineBraniff722 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21125 times:

The L-1011 has about the same chance of a comeback as a 727-200 does.......SADLY!  Sad

727-300......... has such a nice ring to it, doesn't it?  Wink

Braniff 722



Living large in KSHV
User currently offlineVHSMM From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21119 times:

Only in our dreams would another new commercial tri-jet take to the skies.

The only chance of another tri-jet would be if the regulators suddenly changed the rules and abolished/radically reduced ETOPs. In fact it think it was regulations like that, dating from the 1930s?, that gave birth to the tri-jet.



Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,A300,A319,20,21,A330,A340,A380,CRJ-200,BAe146,AVRO100,Saab340B,MD82,F100,Dash8
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21075 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 9):
That is a new version of the Dassult 50 with only a maximum of 15 pax.
And it is used as a private plane and not an airliner.
If you want to buy one i will be more than happy to take a ride in it,and maybe Nitepilot79 can join us

True, but like you said "NEW" version. I'm sure that if a 777 can achieve E-Tops a business jet can also do that, but this just goes to say that some manufacturers are opting for try-jets. The 7X is not that small, even though it's only for 15 something pax.

If I had the money for it, I'd def. take you up! LOL....



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21050 times:



Quoting Braniff722 (Reply 11):
The L-1011 has about the same chance of a comeback

why not ?

Very low start up costs for a new carrier ?

Allegiant seem to be doing OK with old mad dogs.


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20947 times:

One thing that is kinda neat about the L-1011, is that some airlines had lower-level lounges on their L-10s. Here is a picture of the lower lounge that PSA considered.




Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20884 times:

There are 3 airliners I wish I had had a chance to fly on..

2 or lockheed
1 douglas

connie, l1011
dc-3

long live the tri-jet! lockheed u could be the dark horse in the 2 air framer race!


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20856 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 5):
presume most of L1011's were pulled form service due to 2 things:-

I'd say it was really three reasons:

1. Three man cockpit
2. Inefficient when compared to the A330, 764, and 777
3. It's not just that the aircraft were becoming older, but parts were becoming hard to source. Even though Delta at one point flew 50+ L-1011s towards the end it was becoming difficult for them to get find some of the parts necessary to keep 'em flying.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20734 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 15):
One thing that is kinda neat about the L-1011, is that some airlines had lower-level lounges on their L-10s. Here is a picture of the lower lounge that PSA considered.

hey a flying brothel, now that could surely make some money, even in a depression, always a demand for paid sex !!!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25356 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20719 times:



Quoting Braniff722 (Reply 11):
The L-1011 has about the same chance of a comeback as a 727-200 does.......SADLY!

727-300......... has such a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Boeing came very close to launching a 727-300 in the mid-1970s. They dropped the project when the intended launch customer, UA, changed their mind.

Description of the 727-300 plans about 1/3 of the way down the first page of this long (8 part) Seattle Times article from 1983 on the development history of the 757 (which, by the way, made its first flight 27 years ago next week -- February 19, 1982).
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/business/757/part01/

Further reference to the 727-300 in this Flight International issue dated October 1975.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%202319.html


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20300 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
BA/SV/TWA and Eastern.

don't forget Delta Air Lines.
IMHO the best plane ever........but she cant be replaced.  Sad  Sad
Long live the L1011



yep.
User currently offlineMaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1098 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20108 times:

I'm risking the ire of the Lockheed fans here, but this is my understanding of Lockheed civil aircraft design. I'll qualify it by saying my own personal experience is flying Douglas, Boeing, Airbus and Fokker aircraft.

While the Lockheed products were all very good airplanes, they suffered from systems over-design and complexity. The Constellation, a beautiful aircraft by any definition was much more complex (some would like to say sophisticated) than the DC-6 and DC-7. Douglas airplanes up through the DC-9 were evolutionary from the DC-3. The DC-8 hydraulic system was remarkably similar - one main system with two engine driven pumps, a stand pipe and an aux pump. It even had a manual, non-boosted elevator. The DC-4, 6 and 7 all had non-boosted controls. The Connie had hydraulicly boosted surfaces. The electrical system was very complicated. The operating economics of the Douglas airplanes was always better than the Connie. Don't even ask about the Boeing Stratocruiser!

This carried over into the jet age. The L-188 Electra (my favorite airliner I never got to fly, although I rode in Braniff and National Electras as a kid) was a great machine once the unfortunate whirl-mode flutter was fixed - had its systems based on the C-130, a military design. The L-1011 always had a reputation as being maintainence intensive, much more so than the DC-10.

At World Airways where I flew in the early 80s, I was told that they could accomplish a DC-8 heavy check in a little over half the time required for a 707. All those cables and pulleys
versus electric controls on the Boeings seemed to take less time to inspect and/or replace.

My vote is for the Douglas products. With the exception of the DC-7, with it's complex Turbo-Compund Wrights (some Connies had them too) from the DC-3 to the DC-10 they go on for years past their original design life. The NW DC-9 and UPS DC-8 fleet are good examples. DC-6s and 4s are still out there earning their keep, while the flyable Connies are
museum operated.


User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18514 times:

An L-1011 revival??

No. There are only about 36 or so airframes left that are in "flying" condition, and spares would be next to impossible to secure.

Also, the avionics package on the aircraft would need a major upgrade in order to fly in today's radar controlled airspace or across any body of water. With less than 50 frames and the cost of that being well over $1M each...well, I think you get the point.

The L-1011 is gone. Let us hope that they don't all get chopped up for the salvage bin.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineTzfalax From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 80 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

There was a point when Lockheed was developing a 2 engine variant of the L-10. Packed somewhere in a box I have a book that I bought at the Boeing museum that detailed it.

User currently offlineF4f3a From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17413 times:

The original design was for a twin jet aircraft but was modified to a trijet as the engines werent powerful or reliable enough

25 CARST : Okay ... the question is totally ridiculous, but i will try to answer it anyway. In the far future, when we use another kind of fuel which costs nearl
26 Farzan : Yes you are right about that, but had the 1011 still been around there would have been upgrades available. Also as a big fan of 1011 I am still bugle
27 AirNZ : Your two reasons had actually nothing to do with why the vast majority of the L-1011 seen retirement from service.
28 SOBHI51 : Now i could be wrong,but if i remember well there was a big scandal about the DC10's and bribes at the time.
29 EBJ1248650 : I believe at one time Boeing investigated the possibility of stretching the 727-200 but in the end they went to a new sheet of paper and we got the 7
30 EBJ1248650 : As I recall, one of the things that reduced the L1011's appeal was the fact that it was somewhat smaller than the DC-10 and didn't have the same load
31 Typhaerion : There is reams of information about this all over these forums, with a little searching you could find a more detailed answer. But to sum it up nice
32 Irobertson : I think the original intent of this thread was to discuss the idea of making a three engine widebody with a modern cockpit and engines, inspired by th
33 MSYtristar : I would have loved to have seen something like an L1011-500 Advanced, witha two man flight deck, upgraded engines, increased range more comparable to
34 Sparkingwave : The only way to have an L-1011 revival is to protect the L1011s that still exist and keep them in flying condition. I suppose it would be like maintai
35 AA777223 : This is fascinating! This is the first I have heard of this and I spend a fair amount of time rummaging around this site...
36 Spudsmac : Sorry, but never ever in forever will it ever come back. It's like the old cruise liners, yeah they looked good and were luxurious, but they won't ha
37 DfwRevolution : No, there haven't been a "hell of a lot of 777 diversions." People just get all up in a tizzy when a 777 diverts so it grabs the headlines more. In r
38 Post contains links SFO2SVO : Got curious too. Did not find anything about 1990's (it was an interesting period in Russia: right after USSR ceased to exist. Everything seemed poss
39 474218 : I didn't have to read about it somewhere, I was there when it was happening.
40 ATA L1011 : :As I recall, one of the things that reduced the L1011's appeal was the fact that it was somewhat smaller than the DC-10 and didn't have the same loa
41 MSYtristar : Both DL and TW had 2+5+2 for Y (the standard L10 layout once the days of the 2+4+2 came to an end), and both had 2+2+2 for F.
42 Irobertson : Just another thing I thought of - there's been a trend lately in the smaller airliner market to start building modernized versions of good designs tha
43 ConvairNut : Absolutely,...the engines. I recall back in '72-'73 once could see a forest of tails by the TWA hangar at LAX, besides being underpowered they were a
44 Seabosdca : The problem with that is that the Tristar had a replacement that did everything it could and more, with vastly lower fuel and maintenance costs: the
45 474218 : That's strange: TWA hated the L-1011 so much, that five years after the last of their original order of 33 TriStars were delivered they came back to
46 MCIGuy : I only took one trip on a Tristar, ATL-NAS and NAS-ATL in 1983, and I loved every minute of it. The L1011 was my favorite airliner as a kid, very nice
47 ConvairNut : Sure, why not?! Once the problems(compressor stalls & VERY leaky carbon seals) had been resolved by RR they had a viable aircraft to work with. Who m
48 Malaysia : Did DL take replace the lower galley with a fuel tank for more range on some Tristars?
49 474218 : No. On several of their L-1011-500 (which did not have lower galleys) they added fuel tanks to the C-2 cargo compartment.
50 Malaysia : Also I was thinking of the L-1011-250 as well too
51 AA777223 : Im not implying you did need to read about it. I just am surprised it has never been mentioned inthis forum before...
52 Nitepilot79 : Holy pre-nup!
53 DL_Mech : TW had 2-4-2 in C on domestic planes and 2-2-2 in C on international. All of DL's international C class were 2-3-2.
54 Nitepilot79 : Only if I get to fly the damn thing!
55 AcNDTTech : Falcon 900....wider fuselage than the 50......some new things too - fly-by-wire control surfaces and winglets - just to name a few.
56 Viscount724 : I always thought the DC-10 (and MD-11) had a more spacious feel than the L1011, possibly due to the significantly larger windows whiich was one of th
57 1337Delta764 : I agree that the L-1011 was a great plane, however, it simply couldn't keep up in efficiency compared to widebody twins. For Delta, I would agree that
58 Max Q : Ah the L1011 Tristar, along with the Queen of the skies, the incomparable 747 I think Lockheed made the finest subsonic jet transport ever. Spacious,
59 AcNDTTech : I agree.....like a '76 Cadillac......nicest ride in the sky, but something always needing to be fixed.
60 Diesel1 : A thread seen on PPRuNe.com earlier today (and now deleted) referred to an advert looking for Tristar crew to be based out of Cardiff for long haul ch
61 Mortyman : Sadly there are some great planes that are gone or about to: 1011 Tristar DC 10 MD 11 B 727 There is just something seriously good looking about a tri
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Will There Ever Be An EU Flag Airline? posted Sat Oct 28 2006 16:42:17 by Silverstreak
Could There Ever Be A 777-400? posted Sun Apr 2 2006 19:51:33 by Siromega
Will There Ever Be An Aussie Airline Joining Star. posted Mon Dec 29 2003 10:58:06 by Travel
Will There Ever Be An Engine Bigger Than The 777s? posted Tue Oct 23 2001 07:15:00 by Lax
Will There Ever Be A World Airline? posted Tue Feb 19 2008 19:00:26 by Aruba
Will There Ever Be Transatlantic At MHT? posted Fri Nov 30 2007 07:50:02 by Curticool
Will There Ever Be A New 19/20 Seat Airplane? posted Wed Aug 15 2007 17:17:00 by ERAUgrad02
Will There Ever Be A Ryanairport? posted Sat Jun 2 2007 02:38:50 by StarGoldLHR
Will There Ever Be A 777-300LR posted Sun Jan 7 2007 04:00:16 by T773ER
Will There Ever Be 737LR's posted Fri Nov 24 2006 12:28:46 by Albird87
Will There Ever Be Transatlantic At MHT? posted Fri Nov 30 2007 07:50:02 by Curticool
Will There Ever Be A New 19/20 Seat Airplane? posted Wed Aug 15 2007 17:17:00 by ERAUgrad02
Will There Ever Be A Ryanairport? posted Sat Jun 2 2007 02:38:50 by StarGoldLHR
Will There Ever Be A 777-300LR posted Sun Jan 7 2007 04:00:16 by T773ER
Will There Ever Be 737LR's posted Fri Nov 24 2006 12:28:46 by Albird87