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SAS To End Seattle Service After 40+ Years  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33083 posts, RR: 71
Posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24284 times:

SAS, flying to Seattle since 1966, will discontinue service between Seattle and Copenhagen after the summer 2009 timetable.

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/200...els-seattle-after-40-years-of.html

Can't say this is that surprising. With a heavy amount of capacity thrown into Seattle-Europe in the past two years, something had to give way, and it looks like it was Northwest's Seattle-Heathrow and SAS.


a.
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17085 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24255 times:

Indeed sad news. Really pity. So when does the winter timetable begin?


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33083 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24178 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
Indeed sad news. Really pity. So when does the winter timetable begin?

Typically the last week of October, when DST ends.



a.
User currently offlineLhpdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24147 times:

This is terrible..This airline has been serving the Pacific Northwest thru Seattle for years! Even though it's not a surprise it's still sad to see this flight leave our region.......

User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1918 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24110 times:

Terrible news  Sad

I don't live in Seattle, but every time I see the bird there, it's a beauty.

So sad to hear.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 24109 times:

Yes it is sad. I always loved seeing their beautiful planes land here.

But with the way things are going and increased pressure from AF and LH (which are better situated for European connections than a flight to CPH) I don't find this too surprising.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25700 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 23990 times:

This will mark the end of 55 years of continuous SAS service between Europe and the U.S. West Coast, longer than any other airline. They were the first carrier to launch direct service via the Polar Route, CPH-LAX via Greenland and with a fuel stop at Winnipeg, on November 15, 1954, initially using DC-6Bs. CPH-SEA started with DC-8s in September 1966.

Excerpt from SAS website history section:

After thorough preparations, the first polar route was inaugurated on November 15, 1954. "Helge Viking" took off from Copenhagen for Los Angeles via Sondre Stromfjord and Winnipeg. Povl Jensen was pilot-in-command. At the same time "Leif Viking" took to the skies from Los Angeles. The two aircraft met in the polar night high above the Canadian tundra. The crowd cheered when the mayor of Los Angeles, Norris Poulsen, upon arrival in Copenhagen waived a sign with "LOS ANGELES CITY LIMITS" written on it.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4455 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 23906 times:

Sad to see the service disappear. I have taken many SAS 767s on the SEA-CPH route, and always enjoyed the service, fares and the convenience when they were not that many options to Europe from Pacific NW.

User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2560 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 23831 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 5):
I always loved seeing their beautiful planes land here.

Me too. Their A340 is one of the better looking aircraft in the skies around here.
Surprising that the large Scandanavian population in this area didn't provide enough O&D to sustain them indefinitely.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33083 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 23715 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 8):

Me too. Their A340 is one of the better looking aircraft in the skies around here.
Surprising that the large Scandanavian population in this area didn't provide enough O&D to sustain them indefinitely.

Should not be surprising at all. The largest markets from the U.S. to Scandinavia are New York, Chicago, Miami, L.A., and San Francisco. Seattle isn't that large a local market. U.S.-Scandinavia traffic isn't driven by VFR outside of South Florida-Finland. It's largely business and tourism, the latter creating the large market to SF, South Florida and LA.

[Edited 2009-02-10 17:00:42]


a.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 23682 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

That's too bad. Boeing used SAS a lot because they were usually the lowest price between SEA and Europe...even in business class. SAS losses probably played a major impact on the decision to discontinue SEA. Hopefully, SAS would consider returning when the economy gets better again.

In the meantime, SEA will still have plenty of choices to Europe with AF, LH, NW and BA. With the sacrifice of SAS, maybe the others will remain and weather the economic downturn.


User currently offlineZonks From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 23610 times:

As someone in PDX (and currently studying Danish, go figure), this is a sad bit of news for all of us aviation buffs in the Pacific Northwest. I flew PDX-SEA-CDG-CPH on QX/AF back in 2007 and always sort of regretted not flying PDX-SEA-CPH on UA/SK. Every time there's a thread on here about SK's intercontinental operations, the discontinuation of CPH-SEA always comes up, so this isn't exactly surprising.


I took this at the Carlsberg museum back in 2007. Thought it would be relevant with today's news.


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 23570 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
Boeing used SAS a lot because they were usually the lowest price between SEA and Europe...even in business class

This certainly contributed to the shutdown. SAS' pricing in this market was completly out of control and this, combined with high local costs, made SEA the last victim in SAS' intercontinental failures over the last years.

Come November the only SAS aircraft serving Seattle will be the 747 hanging in the ceiling of the bar Von's on Pine Street. Legend has it that it was donated by an SAS salesman who couldn't pay the bill ....  Big grin



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25841 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 23499 times:

My first visit to America some 30 odd years ago was on a SAS 747 Combi CPH-SEA.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



Thanks for the memories  wave 



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22921 times:

It's sad to see SK leave the market. They have a long history here and no one ever likes to see a loss in service.

At the same time, this seems to be more of a reflection on SK's inability to get their house in order than an issue with SEA. SK doesn't offer nearly the number of connections that other major European players do, and these connections (especially India) have driven lots of the increase demand in the past 10 years ago. SK's "strategy" of having a weak longhaul network and a system of multiple hubs in small markets just isn't working for them.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22797 times:

Truly sad to hear. A very 'unique' route served for so many decades, now gone. Hopefully things turn around and it ends up being only a short drop, or not being dropped at all.  Sad

User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 22668 times:

This is very sad news indeed. Wasn't DEL announced to be cancelled as well?
But with those two routes being discontinued, where will they put this new remaining capacity?

//Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 22343 times:



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 16):
This is very sad news indeed. Wasn't DEL announced to be cancelled as well?
But with those two routes being discontinued, where will they put this new remaining capacity?

CPH-SEA and ARN-PEK get axed, I think DEL was just seasonal.
The purpouse is to cut capacity, SAS will ground two A-340's for the rest of 2009. And around 14 narrowbodies will be grounded.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4311531/


User currently onlineKirkSeattle From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 22200 times:

Sad to see them leave Seattle after such a long time. I flew SAS to BCN via CPH in January 2007. I was impressed with the A340 and their entertainment options (service was so-so, nothing that would have prevented another trip). CPH was an easy transfer point and staff was extremely helpful in the airport.

Over the last few years, more non-stop options to Europe from Seattle made for some tough competition but good news for the folks in Seattle. Who wants to transfer via the US east coast with so many delays?

Door is always open to come back SAS!  wave 

-Kirk


User currently offlineFrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 22021 times:

my favorite landing on a SAS coming back from Copenhagen, we were way too high, and it seemed (probably less) several hundred feet high when we got to the airport, and had to do a go around (took half an hour or so), AND they had the forward camera on, so could see off to the side and a runway view. Super.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1441 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 22024 times:

Sad!!! Very sad! I loved flying SAS from Seattle to Copenhagen. Their long haul service is great and their A340 in SEA looks fantastic. I will never forget the beautiful blue tail of their "big bus" when it pulled up to the gate to take me CPH.

SAS A340 pulling up to the gate at Seattle-Tacoma (Jan. 07)
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/vludusan/DSC_0005-1.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/vludusan/DSC_0008.jpg

I hope the economy will pick up and I'll get to fly them again... but that's highly unlikely, since I am moving back to Europe soon. I guess I'll have to fly SAS via EWR or ORD.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 21509 times:

Oh my gosh, this route that has so much history and is so unique! Seems like so many of us can relate directly to this line. I remember flying it as a child in the 1970s, when it was operated with a DC-10. This is sad news indeed.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
It's sad to see SK leave the market. They have a long history here and no one ever likes to see a loss in service.

At the same time, this seems to be more of a reflection on SK's inability to get their house in order than an issue with SEA. SK doesn't offer nearly the number of connections that other major European players do, and these connections (especially India) have driven lots of the increase demand in the past 10 years ago. SK's "strategy" of having a weak longhaul network and a system of multiple hubs in small markets just isn't working for them.

Exactly. And I have pointed out many times that SK is a victim of politics and the desire to retain hub operations at three national capitals when in fact they needed to consolidate their hub ops completely to one (say, CPH). But, problem is, you can't fly for example LLA-CPH or TOS-CPH; you are forced to fly via an outdated national air route structure to the national capital (Stockholm or Oslo, as applicable) then get a flight to Copenhagen. Or, face a more limited intercon network at the other two capitals.

Scandinavians used to be very worldly and pragmatic. But that was a long time ago. So perhaps as they reflect upon their continued rejection of the euro currency and self-perceived superiority vis-a-vis the rest of Europe, they will come to grips with the fact that it is time to abandon the state-owned-airline model, and let Lufthansa (or whomever can operate the service according to sound market principles) take over.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3683 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 21394 times:

I too will also be sad to see this flight go. Most of the time I did the late evening CO SEA-IAH, I would usually see the SK get ready for the flight back to CPH. They would definitely be missed by me!


The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 20415 times:

Having been a SAS RVC member for a number of years and one of their top travel agents in North America back in the 80s, this is very sad. My first flight to Europe was December 6, 1979 on Knut Viking (747 combi), got upgraded to F class and saw my first sunrise over Greenland. I had hoped to be able to take a ride for my 30 year anniversary on December 6, but alas, the flight will be gone by then. Since that time, I have flown 32 polar sectors on SAS (not all round trip), all but one were SEA-CPH. On October 14, 1990, I took my wife on our honeymoon on SAS to Spain; they had a special cake made for us and an annoucement was made after the dinner service in EuroClass...(Business). Over the years, I have had a very special relationship with the airline...I have worked with three generations of staff in the Seattle office and I know that this annoucement will hurt them deeply.

Unfortunately, it should be no surprise to anyone that the SEA-CPH route has not performed well for many years. It has been the strong influence of the local market and the Scandinavian community that kept the service here while LAX was dropped back many years ago. When the A340 was introduced, there was not a bed product in Business Class. BA offered the first bed product on SEA-Europe, followed by NW when they went over to the A330 on the SEA-AMS route. It took many years for SK to get a bed product and it hurt them in terms of high yield revenue. They had to discount their high yield product to capture traffic from NW and BA and as a result, it eroded the yield that they needed to have to make the flight profitable. For many years, SAS has its aircraft configured for about 1/3 of its seats for Business Class (on the DC-10 and 767 especially..there were upwards of 70 Business Class seats...on a 767! The A340 came in with only 40 and about 230 total seats. This change of yield mix and lack of a bed product hurt the yield on the route...but never the loads. They have consistently averaged above 80% annual load factor for the last 20 something years that I am aware of.

When AF came into the market, they started taking connecting passengers away from SK. NW was already skimming passengers off of SK (those that were connecting beyond Scandinavia. As AS gained complete dominance in the Northwest, with their SkyTeam agreements, AF became the preferred carrier in J class to Europe (and from what I've been told, their J product on SEA-CDG is far better than all the other carriers to Europe from SEA (I'll report this summer when I fly them to Europe in J class).

When LH entered the market not long after, I suspected that the SK route might go away as LH would substitute and provide SK code on the LH flight and carry passengers up to Scandinavia from Frankfurt. This left SK with their most loyal customers, very little feed traffic (LH and NW in PDX and many nonstop carriers to Europe from Western Canada, where SK had depended on feed traffic for many years). The depth of this financial crisis was the straw that broke the back of the camel.

I agree with those who state that the internal problems of SAS have contributed to this sad development. The A340 was the wrong aircraft for this route (too big), with not enough Business Class seats...and when the J class market moved to a bed product, SK took too long to follow. With a big plane and insufficient yield, the route became a loser. Having been in this situation after 9/11, I can understand these kinds of decisions. (My flight SFO-MXP was doing really well, but after 9/11, we lost it because the aircraft were needed elsewhere. We didn't get it back because it was only marginally profitable.)

You can bet the local Scandinavian community here will put up one hell of a fight to keep the airplane here, if only a couple of days a week. I think that a two a week service is not enough to serve the market effectively, considering that LH can simply put a larger aircraft on the route and connect all the Scandinavian markets via FRA. There is not sufficient SEA-CPH traffic on its own to justify the service. This is the reality of the situation. That said, it doesn't make the situation any less sad.

I will have to find an excuse to get over to Europe and back on SAS before they leave the market. It will be difficult, since I am not employed at the moment and buying a ticket to Europe in Business Class (I can't fly Y class due to a medical condition that makes sitting in a coach seat unbearably painful after a short time) is not possible. If anyone has miles in their SAS account that they'd like to donate, please e-mail me...

SAS has been an institution in Seattle, they have been my friends for many years. They will be missed, both professionally and personally.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 20254 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I guess a Lufthansa-oriented decision in the process.

Is NW doing better on the SEA-LHR market ? I known AMS is doing OK, but I've heard of some very low loads on the LHR run.

FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
25 Baw716 : NW dropped SEA-LHR...I guess it didn't do very well... baw716
26 LHboyatDTW : I'm sorry to see this historic route go, but we all can agree the writing was on the wall for a while. As an a.netter who has lost BA after 50 or so y
27 UN_B732 : I'm going to miss SEA-CPH. I flew it in Coach on my way to SVO (it was a pretty good connection geographically, there were quite a few Russians on boa
28 Jetboy319 : While it is indeed sad for any city to lose international service, I have said for a while now that I believe the SEA-Europe market was over saturated
29 Kevin777 : Although I cannot share the exact same feelings for the SK SEA service as many of you guys here in this thread (very interesting to read all of your a
30 Ryu2 : What does this mean for their CPH-SFO plans?
31 Post contains links and images LoneStarMike : And here's the magazine ad: LoneStarMike
32 Post contains links Ferroviarius : Good afternoon, I have just checked on www.sas.no to get flights OSL-SEA on Jan 21st, 2010 and v.v. on Jan. 28th, 2010. Both directions of the itinera
33 Eaa3 : Icelandair could operate this route with a 757. It´s only 100 miles further than KEF-MCO. They have great connections to Scandinavia and Europe. Migh
34 DABZF : I have not manage to find anything else about this news part from the blog entry in the link given. Would appreciate to see something little bit more
35 Post contains links SpeedyGonzales : See here: http://forum.scanair.no/showthread.php?t=41927
36 Alexinwa : Saddest day ever. My 1st ever flight was SK DC10 SEA-CPH. We flew SK every summer when I was a kid. I called my mom and told her the news, we've decid
37 EBGflyer : According to standby.dk the decision to cut CPH-SEA is NOT definite. It will be put on hold for the winter season of 2009/10, but probably reopen in M
38 Flyin5glow : Sad news to hear that SAS A340 won't be flying to Seattle no more. I love watching the airplane depart during summer afternoons. =(
39 Wedgetail737 : I believe SAS is going to continue to fly to SEA until October. I'm a little surprised that they don't fly their A330's into SEA, but it's not that mu
40 ZRH : Actually a 330-300 has the same fuselage as the 340-300 therefore they are the same size.
41 Kevin777 : Right. As for SK, their 330s are a little shorter on J-seats than their four-engined twins (the A340 has the J section expanding two rows (12 seats)
42 ZRH : OK, got it. At SK the 330 are "smaller" which means less passengers than the 340. There are sometimes people which mean that a 343 is bigger than a 3
43 Tango-Bravo : Believe it or not, there was a time (decades ago) when SAS was reprimanded (perhaps even penalized) by U.S. authorities for carrying too much feed fr
44 Doona : Actually, since they carry less J seats and more Y+ and Y seats, the 330 seats more PAX than the A340. Cheers Mats
45 LAXintl : It was details about pesky 6th freedom beyond traffic. Same issue which Icelandair had to battle for decades as its entire ops was primarily structur
46 Post contains links Hatbutton : I read an article that said it is definite they are pulling out. They just haven't figured out what day they want to pull the plug. They are still ta
47 Egcarter : According to an article in the Seattle Times, this route usually goes out full or nearly so! Of course, it's an important Microsoft route as well...Co
48 Kevin777 : Yes.. the "Microsoft Shuttle".. From what I read in this thread though, the problem isn't so much the loads, rather, it's the yields.. In Danish TV2
49 Kevin777 : According to TakeOff.nu, DXB will return this winter - at least some good news from SK Long-haul. With the Dubai economy in free fall (what a giant bu
50 EBGflyer : I'm surprised they will keep it since it's more of a leisure than business destination. It's probably the cheaper one of the long haul routes to oper
51 Kevin777 : Let's hope so indeed..! But AFAIK they did have a good agreement with EK with some good through fares, but well, the rest of the world economy isn't
52 Viscount724 : Part of the reason for the large business class cabins was the SAS policy in those days of charging the full unrestricted economy class fare for trav
53 Baw716 : Viscount...you are quite right. In fact, one of the reasons I was one of SK's top 100 agents in North America was the fact that I was able to take bu
54 JasonCRH : Very interesting. I, too, know very well the SK people in Seattle and at their USA HDQ. it's sad to see this flight go. unfortunately, I do not think
55 Someone83 : Wrong. They share revenue between Scandinavia and Germany, and the traffic here is quite large with around 40 daily flights
56 CityAirline : And even that was modest I think! I would bet on the double number, since they have 10 daily to GOT only from various points in Germany //Alex
57 JasonCRH : fair enough - they do NOT share revenue for flights over the Atlantic. Thank you for the clarification.
58 Someone83 : Did a count of all the Scandinavia flight and on a regular weekday, this is the total including flight operated by Eurowings and Cimber on behalf of
59 SpeedyGonzales : And still not a single one to TRD or TRF
60 SurfandSnow : Well, we are comparing apples and oranges here. One route has been flown continuously since the dawn of the jet age, the other was a short-lived 21st
61 LongHaul67 : It was just a matter of time. Now SK will have metal available to evaluate routes like CPH-Islamabad/Karachi
62 CityAirline : I was thinking about looking this up, but I didn't have the time, so thanks. And omg, I didn't realise that it was THAT many either, almost 100 fligh
63 Kevin777 : Why on earth would they start up a service to Pakistan????? Going head-to-head with PIA on a 99% VFR-route that PIA alone cannot operate more than tw
64 Viscount724 : Not quite. MAD has been the 4th busiest airport in Europe for the past year or two based on number of passengers. AMS was bumped to 5th. I don't thin
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