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Aerolineas New Airbus Fleet.  
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12177 times:

Finally could be an end (¿?) to the conflict between Aerolíneas Argentinas and Marsans Group. During its official visit to Spain, the Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner woud be negotiate a new agreement with the Spanish holding for new Airbuses ordered by Marsans Group.

According with the last information the Argentinian State would taking over the 30% of Marsans order including Airbus A330-200 and probably part of A32S fleet.

The official announcement would be in the next days.

Also Aerolineas Argentinas will add 12 Boeing 737-700 (six confirmed ex Sky Europe) into Aerolineas Argentinas fleet.

The Argentinian State still considering to add ERJ170/190s to upgrade Austral's fleet.

Saludos,

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12137 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
12 Boeing 737-700 (six confirmed ex Sky Europe) into Aerolineas Argentinas fleet

This is confirmed , aircraft have been selected . Engineering should be underway soon.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2750 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12062 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter):
Finally could be an end (¿?) to the conflict between Aerolíneas Argentinas and Marsans Group. During its official visit to Spain, the Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner woud be negotiate a new agreement with the Spanish holding for new Airbuses ordered by Marsans Group.

Well your article is certainly much more civil than the other article I read online covering this. In that one, Marsans flat out stated that the only way they would drop their legal action against the Argentine gov't (including threatening to take it to the WTO) would be if the Argentine gov't agreed to take on the Airbus order that Marsans had entered into. It went on further to state that Marsans did not want to be stuck with the cancellation bill.

I found that last portion rather odd, since according to Airbus, Marsans still has not finalized the 61-plane order, and thus would not be subject to losing deposits.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11976 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 2):
I found that last portion rather odd, since according to Airbus, Marsans still has not finalized the 61-plane order, and thus would not be subject to losing deposits.

Marsans Group has confirmed the order (MOU) for its 61 Airbuses but they didn't make the deposits yet. Marsans needs a secure way to finance the operations and the AR is the option, specially negotiating and exchanging planes by a compromise from Argentina to drop legal actions agains Marsans.

Saludos,


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11868 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 3):
confirmed the order (MOU)

An MOU is *not* binding. An MOU is also not an order. The only purpose of an MOU is to put agreed upon pricing on paper for later reference.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineAlianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11784 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 3):
Marsans Group has confirmed the order (MOU) for its 61 Airbuses but they didn't make the deposits yet. Marsans needs a secure way to finance the operations and the AR is the option, specially negotiating and exchanging planes by a compromise from Argentina to drop legal actions agains Marsans.

In this matter, Argentina should make their own decision, not pressured by Marsans as to whether they can commit to these planes at this time or not. Argentina has ever right not to take them. Besides, they saved Marsans continual loss of capital as AR and AU was costing Marsans more and more, as these two airlines continued to deteriorate with aging fleet and labor issues, etc. Argentina did Marsans a great favor by taking this snowball problem off their hands.


Reuters/EFE news is reporting that Marsans made deposits of 150 million Euros was for an order of 73 planes including 4 A380, stating:


...Marsans is keen for Argentina to take the planes -- around half the 73 aircraft order struck in 2007 -- to avoid losing $150 million euros in deposit payments already made, Spanish newspaper El Pais reported on Sunday.

EFE quoted sector sources as saying that Airbus, a division of EADS (EAD.PA), wanted assurances from Argentina that it would guarantee the deal, including four A380 superjumbos, since the planemaker's contract was signed with Marsans, not Aerolineas....


http://uk.reuters.com/article/govern...ntFilingsNews/idUKL951244720090209



Saludos,


User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11477 times:



Quoting Alianza (Reply 5):
they saved Marsans continual loss of capital as AR and AU was costing Marsans more and more, as these two airlines continued to deteriorate with aging fleet and labor issues, etc. Argentina did Marsans a great favor by taking this snowball problem off their hands.

Both parts will be receive the benefits of the agreement: Marsans needs a formula to put the aircraft ordered and the Argentinian Goverment needs urgently a solution for Aerolineas, specially if we consider the Legislative election in October 2009 where Cristina Fernandez and its party needs a triumph to improve its public image. Also in the operational issue, to resume its routes and frecuencies AR needs planes, specially if we consider that Marsans Group leave AR with 50% grounded because lack of investment.

I agree with you that Marsans was saved by Argentina, but only in terms of publicity and legal actions agains the spanish group. Marsans has part of the responsability of the AR/AU situation because its policy to eat the company and bad administration.

Saludos,


User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8006 times:

According some information, the new agreement between Argentina and Marsans could include:

- The Argentinian State will pay to Marsans Group for the Airbus order.
- Part of the A32S and A332 fleet ordered by Marsans will go to Aerolineas Argentinas (mentionated above)
- Aerolíneas Argentinas and Air Comet will extend its codeshare agreement and will cooperate in EZE-MAD route.
- Air Comet and Aerolíneas Argentinas will seek the possibility to enter into a global alliance.
- Both carriers will cooperate in crew training.
- Both parts suspend all type of legal actions in Argentina, Spain and CIADI.

Saludos.


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6598 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
According some information, the new agreement between Argentina and Marsans could include:

Thanks for the update.

I also read yesterday that Argentina may buy 40 out of the 61 planes ordered by Marsans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...UtilitiesNews/idUSLC29385020090212



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6441 times:



Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 8):
I also read yesterday that Argentina may buy 40 out of the 61 planes ordered by Marsans.

Yes, but some media inform that the agreement its for 30 Airbuses other said 40 and so on. On February 18, Argentina will sign the agreement but at this moment could include the major part of the issue mentioned above.

Saludos,


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6220 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 4):
An MOU is *not* binding. An MOU is also not an order. The only purpose of an MOU is to put agreed upon pricing on paper for later reference.

What RJ_Delta means is that the (now) order was an MOU until November '08. This comes to show that Marsans was still playing the game of "I wanted to invest AR, but the mean kids didn't let me!"  Yeah sure... which, we all know (well, those of us we choose to see reality, is full of sh.t!

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 6):
Marsans Group leave AR with 50% grounded because lack of investment

You are being TOO generous! 67% is a more likely number. Big grin

Quoting Alianza (Reply 5):
Argentina should make their own decision, not pressured by Marsans as to whether they can commit to these planes at this time or not.

Nobody in the government is feeling the pressure. They are desperate to make this agreement. This MOU was firmed up in November and they haven't deposited one single Euro into the Airbus account, much less, get stuck for an order WAY bigger than what they are willing to pay for ($0).

Quoting Alianza (Reply 5):
around half the 73 aircraft order struck in 2007 -- to avoid losing $150 million euros in deposit payments already made, Spanish newspaper El Pais reported on Sunday.

That's kind of a true lie. That 150 mill dollar deposit is for the 12 A330 order previously made by Grupo Marsans, of which, supposedly, 6 were to go to AR and 6 to A7. AR never saw any. A7 has now 3 or 4 of them. The mentioned deposit was NOT for the 73 plane order.

Let alone, their desperation comes from a very important need. NOT to go to trial, as it would mean they have to prove their accusations, and furthermore audits on AR's accounts has revealed their "money laundering" or so to say scheme.

If you don't believe me, just ask Air Comet Chile employees.

Saludos,



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offline757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

Hi MD & RJ,

I'd just like to know your opinion: do you think this will happen? Will AR get that many planes?
I'd love to see it, but I can't visualize it. I have no facts though.

Thanks!

Saludos,
GB



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

The end is possibly in sight for one of the most drawn-out, soap operas of orders (well since the Aeroflot 787 A350 decision that too 3 years!) of recent times.

I wonder if this order ever get probably firmed - it was announced as firmed and then never hit the Airbus books? More importantly are they still going to order 4 A380s and will all end up with A7 now?


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6070 times:



Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 7):
- The Argentinian State will pay to Marsans Group for the Airbus order.
- Part of the A32S and A332 fleet ordered by Marsans will go to Aerolineas Argentinas (mentionated above)
- Aerolíneas Argentinas and Air Comet will extend its codeshare agreement and will cooperate in EZE-MAD route.
- Air Comet and Aerolíneas Argentinas will seek the possibility to enter into a global alliance.
- Both carriers will cooperate in crew training.
- Both parts suspend all type of legal actions in Argentina, Spain and CIADI.

Call me stupid but this is a pathetic act by the K government. Yes, AR/AU need an important fleet renewal but this is pathetic. They will extend code share, crew training ... basically they will be the same as they were. Responsabilities for the curent mess are many, but I don't see the logic in publicly burning Marsans for being responsable and then bail them out by taking their orders, and then even code sharing ... maybe I'm not thinking from the business point of view, but I just don't like it.
Why should we, the tax payers end up paying a f load of money to bail Marsans out?

It's like accusing you of looting my house and then I'll go and pay for a car you ordered.

And another thing ... B744's, A330's, A320's. B737-700's, MD's and ERJ's ... talk about a coherent fleet



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2750 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 6):
Both parts will be receive the benefits of the agreement: Marsans needs a formula to put the aircraft ordered and the Argentinian Goverment needs urgently a solution for Aerolineas,

But shouldn't AR and the Argentine gov't decide what solution that is, not Marsans? Afterall:

Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 6):
Marsans has part of the responsability of the AR/AU situation because its policy to eat the company and bad administration.

Is this latest 'deal' not just a continuation of that policy? Marsans bad/misguided administration demanding that AR pay for it's mistakes.

There is no doubt that AR needs new planes. But do they really need 50% of what Marsans has ordered/MOU. For instance, AR just reached an agreement to buy and lease 12 second-hand but still relatively new 737-700's. Yet Marsans wants them to take on A32X's as well, bought new straight from Airbus. The former is no question the cheaper alternative, and allows AR to get new aircraft quicker.

Now, AR could certainly use some of the A332's from Marsans' first order. And since that was placed earlier and is being delivered now, they could get them relatively quickly. However Marsans insistance that AR take on part of Marsans outrageous commitment to 61 more planes (A380's?!? Does anyone honestly think AR or A7 can use this type of capacity?), IMO, is just a continuation of Marsans bad management.

Regards,

Hamlet69   

[Edited 2009-02-13 09:09:02]


Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6004 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):
IMO, is just a continuation of Marsans bad management.

but this time with state money, which means tax payer money ... I'm going to claim a few seats on the A330 as my own property Big grin



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offline757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5991 times:

In my opinion part of it is that the government is at fault as well, and because of that they need to reach a compromise. While Marsans can certainly be blamed, probably all this expropriation process is not all that cut and clear either, and that's probably why the Spanish government was making noises as well.

I'm not saying it wasn't justified. A lot of people here are much more familiar with the situation and more qualified to answer that.

Regards,
GB



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5917 times:



Quoting 757GB (Reply 11):
I'd just like to know your opinion: do you think this will happen? Will AR get that many planes?

In my opinion the agreement will stablish that AR/AU will receive the planes. However Argentina are negotiating with the worst and unserious company: Farsans (Marsans) so anything could happen. I hope that AR receive the new planes and start a serious and unpolitical process of reestructuration, specially in term of management.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 13):
Call me stupid but this is a pathetic act by the K government. Yes, AR/AU need an important fleet renewal but this is pathetic. They will extend code share, crew training ... basically they will be the same as they were. Responsabilities for the curent mess are many, but I don't see the logic in publicly burning Marsans for being responsable and then bail them out by taking their orders, and then even code sharing ... maybe I'm not thinking from the business point of view, but I just don't like it.
Why should we, the tax payers end up paying a f load of money to bail Marsans out?

In my opinion the agreement benefits more to Marsans. Although Aerolíneas Argentinas will receive new planes (new since 1980?) Marsans Group will obtain important benefits because they will a have a formula to put part of it mega order; plus they will receive money from Argentina to finance its order, because Argentina Gov. will pay for this aircraft ( with a lower price but Arg. will pay for them); plus Marsans will earn a cooperation in MAD-EZE route with 5th freedom to fly to other destination in South America with an important cooperation in crew training (of course AR will give the training as the same way AR gave in the past days the training for Air Comet Chile crew and finance part of the operation of A7); and the most important for Marsans, all legal actions will be suspended so the image of this unserious Group will not affected after years of bad administration and emptying.

Saludos,


User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1945 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5904 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):
There is no doubt that AR needs new planes. But do they really need 50% of what Marsans has ordered/MOU. For instance, AR just reached an agreement to buy and lease 12 second-hand but still relatively new 737-700's. Yet Marsans wants them to take on A32X's as well, bought new straight from Airbus. The former is no question the cheaper alternative, and allows AR to get new aircraft quicker.

Initially Aerolineas was interested to find longhaul aircraft specially A330/A340 family. Marsans offers an option and the Government of Cristina Fernandez accept it. Remember that Cristina has an special interest to give a solution to the AR problem before the Legislative election in Oct. 2009. During the negotiation Marsans includes in the package part of the A32S order too so at this moment and from a point of view the Argentina Government "was pressionated" by Marsans to accept it.

Saludos,


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

I can see Cristina Kirchner speaking to Marsans:

It won't be easy, you'll think it strange
When I try to explain how I feel
that I still need your planes after all that I've done

You won't believe me
All you will see is a girl you once knew
Although she's dressed up to the nines
Wanting 767s from you*

I had to let it happen, it had to change;
couldn't stay all its life down at heel, looking out of the hangar,
staying out of the air

So I chose nationalisation
Running around, buying every share
But nothing impressed you at all
I never expected it to

Chorus:

Don't cry for me, Grupo Marsans
The truth is, we never left you
All through our wild days
Our mad existence
We'll keep our promise
Don't keep your distance

And as for 320s and as for 330s,
I never invited them in;
though it seemed to Airbus that we had a deal,

They are illusions
They are not the solutions they promised to be
The answer was here all the time
I love you and hope you love me

(*well, she doesn't have to be accurate!)


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5741 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):
(A380's?!? Does anyone honestly think AR or A7 can use this type of capacity?)

A380's are out of the deal.

Quoting 757GB (Reply 16):
While Marsans can certainly be blamed, probably all this expropriation process is not all that cut and clear either, and that's probably why the Spanish government was making noises as well.

Well, noises PUSHING Marsans - not the Argentine government to cut a deal. Marsans executives are on trial in Spain for stealing public funds from SEPI (Sociedad Estatal de Participaciones Industriales) that were to "clean" AR. They didn't and AR still has the same amount of debt.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):
There is no doubt that AR needs new planes. But do they really need 50% of what Marsans has ordered/MOU.

Well, AU AR domestic/regional fleet accounts for roughly 54-56 planes. So, yes.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 15):
but this time with state money, which means tax payer money ... I'm going to claim a few seats on the A330 as my own property

Weren't you Italian?  Silly

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):
But shouldn't AR and the Argentine gov't decide what solution that is, not Marsans?

Well, it was a political deal after all. AR had the 73G on order well before this deal reached the negotiation table.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 13):
And another thing ... B744's, A330's, A320's. B737-700's, MD's and ERJ's ... talk about a coherent fleet

Well, a given - you can't fly EZE-MAD on an A320, so that's a moot point.

The 73Gs will most likely be canceled.

Saludos,



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineAlianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5609 times:



Quoting 757GB (Reply 16):
In my opinion part of it is that the government is at fault as well, and because of that they need to reach a compromise



Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 17):
plus Marsans will earn a cooperation in MAD-EZE route with 5th freedom to fly to other destination in South America with an important cooperation in crew training (of course AR will give the training as the same way AR gave in the past days the training for Air Comet Chile crew and finance part of the operation of A7); and the most important for Marsans, all legal actions will be suspended so the image of this unserious Group will not affected after years of bad administration and emptying.

President Kirchner has just spent time with his gracious highness the King of Spain. It would not be a surprise if this friendly compromise was not influenced by the King, in more way$ than one. It seems familiar to a recent case in Peru where the people there can tell you how their new President had a visit with his royalness, and afterwards they were made to pay more money for telephone fees to ironfisted Telefonica (of Spain) because a fee reduction plan, campaign promise, of the new President was reversed all of a sudden.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):

Don't cry for me, Grupo Marsans
The truth is, we never left you

Ole!! good one!!

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 20):
Marsans executives are on trial in Spain for stealing public funds from SEPI (Sociedad Estatal de Participaciones Industriales) that were to "clean" AR.

Finally some justice is being done...good news.




Does anyone know if or when this new compromise will actually be signed in writing??



Saludos,


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5606 times:



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 20):
Weren't you Italian?

yes, but I pay taxes here .. so at least three seats for me (so I can stretch my legs) Big grin

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 20):
Well, a given - you can't fly EZE-MAD on an A320, so that's a moot point.

But you can on A330's  Wink


But more important is the short haul .. 320's, ERJ's, B737 (-NG or -500's), MD's.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 20):
The 73Gs will most likely be canceled.

Last time I read anything they were the only confirmed ones, with the first two arriving in April.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5468 times:



Quoting Alianza (Reply 21):

Marsans is pushing for next Wednesday. The government has set the date as 2/18/09.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
Last time I read anything they were the only confirmed ones, with the first two arriving in April.

That info is pre-agreement with Marsans. The A32S planes were actually included in the past two weeks.

Saludos,



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineJdevora From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 354 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5187 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 2):
I found that last portion rather odd, since according to Airbus, Marsans still has not finalized the 61-plane order, and thus would not be subject to losing deposits.

Looks like they signed the papers last November

IMHO, a reason that it didn't hit the books could be that Marsans didn't pay the deposit, but that is their fault and in that case, I don't think that Airbus is willing to throw away the firmed contracts for free. Don't you think?

Cheers
JD


25 Hamlet69 : No, they just issued a press release. Airbus (nor Boeing) include a firm order in their books until it is, in fact, a firm order. In other words, unt
26 MD11junkie : They did sign the papers but they didn't make the deposit payments, so the production slots have not been not allocated, which is equal to the order
27 Vhqpa : I hope this deal falls through I think AR should not have anything to do with Marsans. I'd hate for Grupo Marsans to be back in control of AR. Vhq
28 MD11junkie : They won't. Marsans will never be in charge of AR again, in fact, their last two directors on the board resigned a week ago.They just want to get rid
29 Astuteman : If they actually signed the papers, then presumably they now have an obligation to come up with the deposits and either accept the planes, or forego
30 RJ_Delta : Yes, but with Marsans you never know. Saludos,
31 Astuteman : I'm not sure I understand the relevance of "Marsans" in this context. I don't know if Marsans signed anything. I don't know that, if they did sign so
32 Jdevora : I agree that it is not a firm order. My point is that IF they already signed the contract and it didn't hit the books only because Marsan's fault (e.
33 Post contains links MD11junkie : Correct - but this is usual Marsans MO. To support my previous point and your doubts: http://www.hispanidad.com/imagenes/Aircomet-IATA.pdf Saludos,
34 RJ_Delta : Well in the next days the agreement between Argentina and Marsans Group will be signed. According the negotiation Aerolineas Argentinas will receive a
35 Hardiwv : Marsans cannot take any legal actions against AR within the framework of the WTO. Only if the Argentinian government decides to sponsor the Marsans c
36 MD11junkie : I think he meant the ICSID, under the World Bank, easily confused. Saludos,
37 Kaitak : The chances of this are probably quite slim!
38 RJ_Delta : Well I must correct the info. because the AR administration will not canceled the leasing of 12 737-700 because AR needs an inmediate replacement for
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