Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2151 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10311 times:
Wow that is interesting. It must be for a very specific route because I can't see the 767F flying into some of the airports First Air serves. Maybe they have a contract with one (or more) of the diamond mines? This will be interesting if confirmed.
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9936 times:
Interesting. This has been a persistent rumour for quite some time.
I expect you'll see the 767F going into YFB, YRT, and YZF from various southern locations, but particularly YFB. This should permit greater upload of freight, particularly fresh food, at lower cost. Which would be a good thing for the Northerners.
Can't confirm a source, but I did have a friend tell me that he heard from some First Air crews that the 767 freighter "will be used on the Ottawa - Val-d'Or - Iqaluit run for mail/food/cargo". Also he said that they were looking into getting an ATR-72 freighter to use on some of their community freight hauls.
Interesting times ahead for the north. Now that Air North finally has the 737 combi up and running, Canadian North aquired extra 737s and the Dash-8s, and First Air is getting that 767 and possibly an ATR-72, I wonder what's next....
CanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3377 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5864 times:
Quoting GMPEC (Reply 10): Up maybe (being North), but I have yet to see it running. Last I saw of it, it was missing an engine (gone to replace one that failed on the Vancouver run a while back).
Well I heard it was running for a short while there just before christmas, but I also heard yesterday talking on the phone to home that it was parked without an engine and some other bits and pieces.
Hopefully the scavenging of parts from it is only temporary, I'll see what I can find out about that when I'm up there later this week.
CanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3377 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5120 times:
Quoting Yfbflyer (Reply 13): I wonder if First Air is intending to use the aircraft strictly for cargo or if they will operate it as a combi?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14): Pure freight. There is no such thing as a 767 combi certified.
I also believe it is a pure freighter. I've heard no mention of a combi and it wouldn't make much sense to go through the whole process for a single aircraft.
Although I remember hearing that First Air is (was?) the operator of the one and only 727-200 combi. I could be wrong about that though.
Well it appears the 767 will be used on what's pretty much always been First Air's turf, but on the other hand Canadian North has been doing a fair bit of expansion in the eastern arctic over the last while with the introduction of Dash 8s and more 737s. For some time the Rankin Inlet/Winnipeg route was also considered First Air's, but there's been some fussing about that lately. So I guess we shall have to wait and see who and what the next move will be for the two airlines.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5007 times:
There were a few more 727 combis than just First Air, although perhaps 7F is the last remaining operator, or perhaps the only -200 combi operator.
The 767F might make a good replacement for 727 freighter capacity, and might have a good ton-mile cost. They might be able to use it to feed the northern 732 / ATR feeder flights, but a single aircraft doesn't exactly build on fleet economics. And it would probably be dedicated to just hauling freight northward, not within the north, so probably just on YOW-YFB or YUL-YFB, and perhaps some charters out of southern points. Maybe even the occasional YEG-YZF run, but positioning the aircraft would be expensive to do that on a regular basis. Why not get a couple of 737-300's, either combis or freighters - a better fit with the fleet, and while they couldn't operate gravel strips it could take on some of the 732 flying to reduce overall fuel costs. And it's better sized for the markets 7F serves. Would've been my pick, but I'm just armchair quarterbacking...
Will be interesting to see what happens with the northern carriers in the next 10 years. If WS adds YXY and/or YZF, it could force the northern carriers to retrench. Air North seems the most vulnerable, but it's hard to see how 7F and 5T wouldn't have to change their strategies, too.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16125 posts, RR: 57 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4910 times:
Any idea when the 3-year lease of the 762F will start?
Quoting AC183 (Reply 16): Why not get a couple of 737-300's, either combis or freighters - a better fit with the fleet, and while they couldn't operate gravel strips it could take on some of the 732 flying to reduce overall fuel costs.
I've been wondering when Canadian North, Air North and First Air woudl replace their 732 fleets. The 733 (all pax, combi and all-cargo) would seem to make the most sense.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 23241 posts, RR: 23 Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4878 times:
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18): I've been wondering when Canadian North, Air North and First Air woudl replace their 732 fleets. The 733 (all pax, combi and all-cargo) would seem to make the most sense.
Some of the existing 732 combis used in Canada's north have the gravel runway equipment and operate to remote mine sites etc. with gravel strips. Canadian North and First Air also both operate the 732 combi on scheduled flights to at least one destination (Cambridge Bay) which has a gravel runway. I don't think the 733 or any other CFM56-powered 737s can use unpaved runways.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
I believe the territory government plans to pave the runway at Cambridge Bay. Even if not, Rankin Inlet, Yellowknife, Norman Wells, Inuvik, and Iqaluit all have paved runways. That would cover the major portion of jet flying in the north. Getting some 733's for that flying would allow the 732 fleet to be at least partially retired, with some kept around for gravel strips and minesite charters. It's not like 733's are in high demand these days, and I don't think fuel is particularly cheap in the north...
Oh, and picking up on the comment about the Rankin Inlet - Winnipeg run, it used to be Transair / Pacific Western / CalmAir territory. The CalmAir milk run probably carries more local traffic than through passengers these days, with 7F picking up the YRT-YWG traffic. But if 5T strengthened its partnership with CalmAir (MO), there could be feed at YRT for a 5T route to YWG. They could put in a stop at Thompson (as 7F tried for a while) or Churchill. Might even be possible to transfer some YWG-YTH flying from MO to 5T to keep the fleet utilization up, and use the MO capacity to expand Nunuvut flying.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 23241 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4397 times:
Quoting AC183 (Reply 20): Oh, and picking up on the comment about the Rankin Inlet - Winnipeg run, it used to be Transair / Pacific Western / CalmAir territory. The CalmAir milk run probably carries more local traffic than through passengers these days, with 7F picking up the YRT-YWG traffic.
I can't recall Pacific Western ever serving YRT. When they took over Transair they dropped quite a few unprofitable Transair destinations. At least YRT isn't on PWA route maps in timetables from 1967, 1975 and 1985. Their most northerly destination from YWG in 1985 was Churchill.
Northwest Territorial also operated YWG-YRT for a while years as part of a YWG-YRT-YZF route. I remember when they used L188 Electras on those routes. Not sure if they were still serving YWG by the time they acquired 737s.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4312 times:
Not sure if YRT was still in service when the Transair / PWA operating certificates were merged, and if it survived that long it didn't last much longer, but in early 1979 Transair was still operating into YRT according to Flightglobal archives. At that point, however, PWA and Transair were essentially flying on a combined schedule, just waiting to merge operating certificates. And by the mid '80's CalmAir was carrying the flag as a Pacific Western Spirit partner.
I've got a Northwest Territorial route map from 1987, and it shows YWG-YRT on it. After they got the 737's they used them on the YWG route right up until the 7F merger. (FWIW, I've actually got a photo of an NWT Air Electra up on the wall... CF-IJV)