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767F For First Air  
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10732 times:

I understand that First Air are acquiring a 767F and it is currently undergoing conversion by IAI to be online by May.

Can anyone confirm this and know what the frame in question is?

Also, what are they going to use a 767 for???


Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2201 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10639 times:

Wow that is interesting. It must be for a very specific route because I can't see the 767F flying into some of the airports First Air serves. Maybe they have a contract with one (or more) of the diamond mines? This will be interesting if confirmed.

User currently offlinePowercube From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10528 times:

I finally move away from YEG and I see First Air is getting something neat. I'm glad to see them expanding, I wonder if they'll use it for military charters like they do with the 727 now and then.

User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 10264 times:

Interesting. This has been a persistent rumour for quite some time.

I expect you'll see the 767F going into YFB, YRT, and YZF from various southern locations, but particularly YFB. This should permit greater upload of freight, particularly fresh food, at lower cost. Which would be a good thing for the Northerners.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineYZFOO7F From Canada, joined May 2005, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8025 times:

Its all about the food mail contract if I'm not mistaken. This has been talked about for years now, glad to see its finally coming together.


Promise me you'll always leave the ground
User currently offlineOsetka From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

I worked at First Air back in 2005, and i remember the President of the company tell us we're getting a 767, but still hasn't happened for First Air. Would be very interesting to see...

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

I note former Excel machine G-VKNI has gone to TLV for conversion - wonder if this is it??


Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7193 times:



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 3):
but particularly YFB

Can't confirm a source, but I did have a friend tell me that he heard from some First Air crews that the 767 freighter "will be used on the Ottawa - Val-d'Or - Iqaluit run for mail/food/cargo". Also he said that they were looking into getting an ATR-72 freighter to use on some of their community freight hauls.

Interesting times ahead for the north. Now that Air North finally has the 737 combi up and running, Canadian North aquired extra 737s and the Dash-8s, and First Air is getting that 767 and possibly an ATR-72, I wonder what's next....


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

Just as an update, I recently heard from my friend that the 767 will be leased from Cargo Jet, but still using First Air crews.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineYfbflyer From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6683 times:

these rumors have been going around for a while i will believe it when i see it.

User currently offlineGMPEC From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6342 times:



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 7):
Now that Air North finally has the 737 combi up and running

Up maybe (being North), but I have yet to see it running. Last I saw of it, it was missing an engine (gone to replace one that failed on the Vancouver run a while back).

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 3):
This should permit greater upload of freight, particularly fresh food, at lower cost.

Good luck getting the prices lower, if it is cheaper to ship it will simply increase the margins for the stores. Pretty common up here. Was the same when the GST went down.



GMPEC
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 6192 times:



Quoting GMPEC (Reply 10):
Up maybe (being North), but I have yet to see it running. Last I saw of it, it was missing an engine (gone to replace one that failed on the Vancouver run a while back).

Well I heard it was running for a short while there just before christmas, but I also heard yesterday talking on the phone to home that it was parked without an engine and some other bits and pieces.
Hopefully the scavenging of parts from it is only temporary, I'll see what I can find out about that when I'm up there later this week.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Here it is ....

http://www.abxair.com/atsg/pr2009-03-06.html


User currently offlineYfbflyer From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

That is interesting. I wonder if First Air is intending to use the aircraft strictly for cargo or if they will operate it as a combi? I also wonder how Canadian North will respond?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24361 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

Pure freight. There is no such thing as a 767 combi certified.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5448 times:



Quoting Yfbflyer (Reply 13):
I wonder if First Air is intending to use the aircraft strictly for cargo or if they will operate it as a combi?



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):
Pure freight. There is no such thing as a 767 combi certified.

I also believe it is a pure freighter. I've heard no mention of a combi and it wouldn't make much sense to go through the whole process for a single aircraft.
Although I remember hearing that First Air is (was?) the operator of the one and only 727-200 combi. I could be wrong about that though.

Quoting Yfbflyer (Reply 13):
I also wonder how Canadian North will respond?

Well it appears the 767 will be used on what's pretty much always been First Air's turf, but on the other hand Canadian North has been doing a fair bit of expansion in the eastern arctic over the last while with the introduction of Dash 8s and more 737s. For some time the Rankin Inlet/Winnipeg route was also considered First Air's, but there's been some fussing about that lately. So I guess we shall have to wait and see who and what the next move will be for the two airlines.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

There were a few more 727 combis than just First Air, although perhaps 7F is the last remaining operator, or perhaps the only -200 combi operator.

The 767F might make a good replacement for 727 freighter capacity, and might have a good ton-mile cost. They might be able to use it to feed the northern 732 / ATR feeder flights, but a single aircraft doesn't exactly build on fleet economics. And it would probably be dedicated to just hauling freight northward, not within the north, so probably just on YOW-YFB or YUL-YFB, and perhaps some charters out of southern points. Maybe even the occasional YEG-YZF run, but positioning the aircraft would be expensive to do that on a regular basis. Why not get a couple of 737-300's, either combis or freighters - a better fit with the fleet, and while they couldn't operate gravel strips it could take on some of the 732 flying to reduce overall fuel costs. And it's better sized for the markets 7F serves. Would've been my pick, but I'm just armchair quarterbacking...

Will be interesting to see what happens with the northern carriers in the next 10 years. If WS adds YXY and/or YZF, it could force the northern carriers to retrench. Air North seems the most vulnerable, but it's hard to see how 7F and 5T wouldn't have to change their strategies, too.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

Oops, sorry CanadianNorth, didn't read that carefully enough first time - you did specify -200 combi, not just 727 combi Big grin

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

Any idea when the 3-year lease of the 762F will start?

Quoting AC183 (Reply 16):
Why not get a couple of 737-300's, either combis or freighters - a better fit with the fleet, and while they couldn't operate gravel strips it could take on some of the 732 flying to reduce overall fuel costs.

I've been wondering when Canadian North, Air North and First Air woudl replace their 732 fleets. The 733 (all pax, combi and all-cargo) would seem to make the most sense.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5206 times:



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):
I've been wondering when Canadian North, Air North and First Air woudl replace their 732 fleets. The 733 (all pax, combi and all-cargo) would seem to make the most sense.

Some of the existing 732 combis used in Canada's north have the gravel runway equipment and operate to remote mine sites etc. with gravel strips. Canadian North and First Air also both operate the 732 combi on scheduled flights to at least one destination (Cambridge Bay) which has a gravel runway. I don't think the 733 or any other CFM56-powered 737s can use unpaved runways.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

I believe the territory government plans to pave the runway at Cambridge Bay. Even if not, Rankin Inlet, Yellowknife, Norman Wells, Inuvik, and Iqaluit all have paved runways. That would cover the major portion of jet flying in the north. Getting some 733's for that flying would allow the 732 fleet to be at least partially retired, with some kept around for gravel strips and minesite charters. It's not like 733's are in high demand these days, and I don't think fuel is particularly cheap in the north...

Oh, and picking up on the comment about the Rankin Inlet - Winnipeg run, it used to be Transair / Pacific Western / CalmAir territory. The CalmAir milk run probably carries more local traffic than through passengers these days, with 7F picking up the YRT-YWG traffic. But if 5T strengthened its partnership with CalmAir (MO), there could be feed at YRT for a 5T route to YWG. They could put in a stop at Thompson (as 7F tried for a while) or Churchill. Might even be possible to transfer some YWG-YTH flying from MO to 5T to keep the fleet utilization up, and use the MO capacity to expand Nunuvut flying.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4725 times:



Quoting AC183 (Reply 20):
Oh, and picking up on the comment about the Rankin Inlet - Winnipeg run, it used to be Transair / Pacific Western / CalmAir territory. The CalmAir milk run probably carries more local traffic than through passengers these days, with 7F picking up the YRT-YWG traffic.

I can't recall Pacific Western ever serving YRT. When they took over Transair they dropped quite a few unprofitable Transair destinations. At least YRT isn't on PWA route maps in timetables from 1967, 1975 and 1985. Their most northerly destination from YWG in 1985 was Churchill.

Northwest Territorial also operated YWG-YRT for a while years as part of a YWG-YRT-YZF route. I remember when they used L188 Electras on those routes. Not sure if they were still serving YWG by the time they acquired 737s.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

Not sure if YRT was still in service when the Transair / PWA operating certificates were merged, and if it survived that long it didn't last much longer, but in early 1979 Transair was still operating into YRT according to Flightglobal archives. At that point, however, PWA and Transair were essentially flying on a combined schedule, just waiting to merge operating certificates. And by the mid '80's CalmAir was carrying the flag as a Pacific Western Spirit partner.

I've got a Northwest Territorial route map from 1987, and it shows YWG-YRT on it. After they got the 737's they used them on the YWG route right up until the 7F merger. (FWIW, I've actually got a photo of an NWT Air Electra up on the wall... CF-IJV)


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

ATDB.org reports that the tail is ex AA N308AA #73 off the line. Currently stored at CVG


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
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