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SkyTeam - Any Members Soon?  
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 971 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13300 times:

With NWA merging into Delta and Continental leaving in late 2009, SkyTeam will have less members than OneWorld! Will SkyTeam have any members joining this year?

According to Wiki (not the best source), several airlines are being lobbied and are 'reviewing' joining. If any members were to join this year, who would they be? China Airlines and Air Algérie would be interesting. Vietnam Airlines and Uzbekistan Airways could bring a new look to SkyTeam, is it likely that these carriers join?

My other question is; when, if ever, will TAROM and MEA join?

And one more thing, whats this I read about Air France trying to 'block' Malaysia AIrlines from joining?

Cheers, Sam.  Smile

[Edited 2009-02-14 10:01:20]


seemyseems
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4047 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13291 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Expect to see TAROM in either end of this year or next. As for others, I'm not sure. Vietnam is being courted, but they are tied to AA in some agreement if I'm not mistaken.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13254 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Thread starter):
My other question is; when, if ever, will TAROM and MEA join?

It was reported last June that MEA's membership is being held up because of a dispute over the future status of its frequent flyer program, Cedar Miles.

SkyTeam associate members are required to join the sponsoring carrier's frequent flyer program, in MEA's case, Air France's Flying Blue, but MEA doesn't want to drop its own frequent flyer program and join Flying Blue.

This is the only issue remaining as all other arrangements have been finalized.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 970 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13223 times:

What happened to the proposal of Kingfisher of India joining Skyteam? I recall that it was supposed to be done sometime last year. Is that still on the cards?


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13193 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Thread starter):
With NWA merging into Delta and Continental leaving in late 2009, SkyTeam will have less members than OneWorld! Will SkyTeam have any members joining this year?

Don't forget that CM might also leave when CO leaves. Aren't Star courting CM and TA or one of them!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13170 times:



Quoting Jr (Reply 3):

What happened to the proposal of Kingfisher of India joining Skyteam? I recall that it was supposed to be done sometime last year. Is that still on the cards?

You are right they were talking but there has been no news, Air India is probably going with Star and JetAirways with OneWorld.

I think SkyTeam need to start to look for other carries too like

1. China Airlines
2. TAM Brazilian Airlines
3. Kingfisher Airlines
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. MEA from lebanon.

What do you guys think ??


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13104 times:



Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 5):
4. Virgin Atlantic

If they are going to partner with anyone look for it to be with Star. The BMI/LH deal seems to include then and they curently codeahsre with future Star member CO.

Just my 2cents.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineJFKMan From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13109 times:

I don't see why anyone would want to join SkyTeam....Its kinda diminished. OneWorld and SkyTeam should just merge. Thats the only way they can rival Star Alliance.


US / AA - JFK / TPA
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13097 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 6):

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 5):
4. Virgin Atlantic

Ohh well, it was a nice though. Is BMI ok with that. Because I read in Airlines magazine that BMI was not happy about that idea from Virgin..


User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13070 times:
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Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 5):
2. TAM Brazilian Airlines

TAM is currently in the process of joining Star... they have also terminated codesharing and their FFP partnership with AF


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3437 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13048 times:



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 7):
I don't see why anyone would want to join SkyTeam....Its kinda diminished. OneWorld and SkyTeam should just merge. Thats the only way they can rival Star Alliance.

No I would rather oneWorld simply pick up the pace and grow a little faster rather than take in the Sky Team carriers. There's no way that DL/NW and AA can work in one alliance and also BA and AK/KL.

It would be nice to get perhaps China Southern and Copa Airlines from Sky Team. I think having CM, LA and MX would be perfect coverage of Latin America minus Brazil.

And OW desperately need a mainland Chinese carrier in my opinion. Either CX/ Dragonair should purchase a carrier like China Eastern, or MU should just join or something.

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 8):
Ohh well, it was a nice though. Is BMI ok with that. Because I read in Airlines magazine that BMI was not happy about that idea from Virgin..

Not sure- I think it's really up to LH though.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12899 times:

What about Varig Airlies which is now owned buy GOL, How big are they ??

User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12853 times:



Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 11):

According to Wiki, GOL seems to be verging towards SkyTeam, it would be great seeing GOL and VARIG in SkyTeam, but VARIG isn't what it used to be, which is a complete let down!  Sad



seemyseems
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12621 times:



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 7):
I don't see why anyone would want to join SkyTeam....Its kinda diminished. OneWorld and SkyTeam should just merge. Thats the only way they can rival Star Alliance.

SkyTeam is a relatively strong alliance. I know many people, myself included, that fly exclusively SkyTeam. I have never flown CO, so I'm not too worried about losing them. It really isn't that diminished at all. If you ask me, there is no way to logically compare SkyTeam and OneWorld to Star. I actually think that the concept of Star Alliance is a huge joke. It seems like every airline out there is joining the bandwagon. It's gotten ridiculous. Too many carriers. Way too many. But that's just my opinion.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26131 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12581 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 2):
but MEA doesn't want to drop its own frequent flyer program and join Flying Blue.

How come? Seems a bit silly.

Being tied into AF/KL program opens a new world to ME and makes it much more attractive plus providing financial benefits. I've personally seen how joining another carriers program can do wonders for an airline.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 4):
Aren't Star courting CM and TA or one of them!

CM has stated it would follow CO, while TA has close relations with UA and growing links with LH.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
Either CX/ Dragonair should purchase a carrier like China Eastern,

You realize Cathay/Dragonair are partially owned by the Chinese themselves right?

CNAC/Air China now control about 45% of CX so its the bosses in mainland that call many of the shots as to what CX might or might not do.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
I actually think that the concept of Star Alliance is a huge joke. It seems like every airline out there is joining the bandwagon. It's gotten ridiculous. Too many carriers. Way too many. But that's just my opinion.

Joke  Confused

I find Star by far having the best network (sans Latin America) with dozens of carrier and routing option on nearly every international trip I take and they run circles around OneWorld and Skyteam which have far fever hubs or partners.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12537 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
. I actually think that the concept of Star Alliance is a huge joke. It seems like every airline out there is joining the bandwagon. It's gotten ridiculous. Too many carriers. Way too many. But that's just my opinion.

What is the concept of Star that you find objectionable?

The point of an alliance is to give customers of the member airlines a larger number of ways to accrue FF miles, redeem FF miles and build and have status recognized more frequently than any single airline could accomplish on it's own. That being the case, Star has succeeded spectacularly.

I'm Star Gold and Skyteam Elite and life with status in Star is much sweeter than status in Skyteam. It's much better to have status recognized across (what?) 20+ airlines than 9 or 10. Same with FF miles -- I accrue miles more easily and can redeem them for free tickets to pretty much any destination.

I've never understood this "less is more" idea with some alliance partisans. This isn't about being a country club member -- it's about convenience when you travel.

But back to the topic of the post -- what is the deal with MH and Skyteam? I would have thought that MH would have joined by now. I know MH was trying forge deeper codeshare ties with AF/KL as a prerequisite for membership. The membership process seems to have stalled though. Anyone know why?



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12537 times:



Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 5):
1. China Airlines

There have been perpetual rumors that CI would be joining SkyTeam as far back as 2004. CI and CZ increasing cooperations last year is probably a good indication that CI's getting closer to joining.



This is my signature.
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12506 times:

Could Uzbekistan Airlines be the next SkyTeam member?

That would be interesting!

If Garuda, China Airlines and Vietnam Airlines join; then SkyTeam will have a strong Asian presance, and if SkyTeam draw Air Algerie and RAM they will have an amazing network! From what I know AF own a small percentage of RAM, so they could have some say in RAM's choice of alliance.

Who are PR most associated with?



seemyseems
User currently offlineAtlanta From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12448 times:



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 7):

Are you kidding?

Atlanta



Welcome To The New Delta- The World's Largest Airline
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12387 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):

How come? Seems a bit silly.

Being tied into AF/KL program opens a new world to ME and makes it much more attractive plus providing financial benefits. I've personally seen how joining another carriers program can do wonders for an airline.

I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps they don't want to lose control over the frequent flyer benefits and rewards they provide their customers.

They'll probably come around eventually.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offline4evervarig From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12096 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
According to Wiki, GOL seems to be verging towards SkyTeam, it would be great seeing GOL and VARIG in SkyTeam, but VARIG isn't what it used to be, which is a complete let down!

According to my anonymous sources, it is rumored within Gol that they are silently negotiating with US port authorities and Asian port authorities the terms to allow VARIG to return to operate in US and Japan/Korea/Hong Kong without being penalized by old RG's debts and unpaid fees. Also, there are 2 camps within GOL's administration. One that favors the use of VARIG brand while the other favors eliminating the VARIG brand. As TAM is squeezing marketshare off of GOL, there seems to be a strong argument to maintain the VARIG brand to fight for the premium passengers. The first step was to keep the VRN licenses and abandon the GOL licenses as they expire.

GOL and VARIG have operational accords with Delta, Korean Air, Air France, major key players in Skyteam...I would conclude VARIG/GOL to soon join Skyteam, once their long term and international plans are put in order.


User currently offlineVN777 From Vietnam, joined Nov 2007, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12059 times:

Last year the Vietnamese media reported that VN would make a choice between Oneworld and SkyTeam. In January there were some reports that VN had joined SkyTeam last January and did not say a single word about Oneworld.

I think VN is a safe bet to join SkyTeam this year.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11828 times:



Quoting 777law (Reply 15):
The point of an alliance is to give customers of the member airlines a larger number of ways to accrue FF miles, redeem FF miles and build and have status recognized more frequently than any single airline could accomplish on it's own.

I would have thought that from the airlines' perspective the point of alliances was to maximise revenue while sharing resources and reducing costs. The FF benefits are simply a positive side efffect.


User currently offlineBjwonline From UK - England, joined Mar 2007, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11464 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
I actually think that the concept of Star Alliance is a huge joke. It seems like every airline out there is joining the bandwagon. It's gotten ridiculous. Too many carriers. Way too many. But that's just my opinion.

I totally agree! Star does not seem to have any plan to it or any consistency for it's customers. It just seems to take on any crapy airline that wants to join without thinking how that brands image is going to affect the other carriers already in the alliance. Nor do they seem think how the applicants route network might actually compliment the star network rather than just add to it.

With Oneworld and Skyteam, all the airlines within each alliance are of the same standard and compliment each other with product offering and route network and each new applicant is thoroughly considered before being allowed to join rather than just taking on anyone for the sake of being the biggest.


User currently offlineEconojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10706 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
I actually think that the concept of Star Alliance is a huge joke. It seems like every airline out there is joining the bandwagon. It's gotten ridiculous.



Quoting 777law (Reply 15):
I've never understood this "less is more" idea with some alliance partisans. This isn't about being a country club member -- it's about convenience when you travel.



Quoting Bjwonline (Reply 23):
It just seems to take on any crapy airline that wants to join without thinking how that brands image is going to affect the other carriers already in the alliance.

It depends on the perspective. Taken in the (imagined) point of view of a member airline, of course there will be occasional concerns about a potential fellow member airline encroaching on my turf if we compete directly in a large number of markets. As a flyer, however, more is better. Chances are that I will have a choice not to fly a certain member airline if I don't particularly like it. But on the occasion that I do, there is recognition. The majority of flyers out there do not scrutinize airline service the way it is done on special interest forums like this one. If one sets aside the magnifying glass, most reasonably established airlines are at least ok quality-wise.

Quoting 777law (Reply 15):
But back to the topic of the post -- what is the deal with MH and Skyteam? I would have thought that MH would have joined by now.

There was some confirmation last year that MH was being considered (after VN). It was mentioned in an older thread that EY might have had something to do with it. If that is true, then there should be some interest in EY as a potential member as well.


25 RoyalAirMaroc : Royal Air Maroc ? They already have close ties with AF and AF also have a stake in the company ?
26 MAS777 : and lets not forget who owns VS... SIngapore Airlines being its parent. With regards to MH - last I heard (dec08) - MH, QF and BA were in talks about
27 Directorguy : You mean Turkish, Egyptair and Air India, right ? Star Alliance is not an alliance of top-notch quality airlines, contrary to popular belief, it's ab
28 Connector4you : Westjet as an associate member to Skyteam coming up soon. This fall or earlier net year.
29 AA1818 : I thought Westjet would head to oneWorld as a regional member. This would be suprising indeed! AA1818
30 Runway23 : This would be surprising. Who would be sponsoring their membership? The only airline likely to do that would be Delta and they don't have any partner
31 Jigarciar : With CO leaving SkyTeam (and, probably CM as well) I can see Avianca getting closer to this alliance; don't forget they have a complete partnership wi
32 American 767 : I totally agree. I couldn't agree more. That's why I dislike Star Alliance, another reason I dislike Star is because Lufthansa for which I am not a f
33 EddieDude : So the Swire Group is no longer the controlling equityholder in CX? I had no clue it was now under Chinese (i.e., P.R.C.) control. Last thing I knew
34 DELTA7478 : According to my anonymous sources, it is rumored within Gol that they are silently negotiating with US port authorities and Asian port authorities th
35 AirNovaBAe146 : KQ joined SkyTeam as an associate member in 2007 - are they considered a full member now or still an associate? How does one transition from associate
36 Seemyseems : Yep, AF own 3% so they might have some say in its favour. So lets say the potential future members are: Malaysia Airlines Vietnam Airlines Garuda Chi
37 Runway23 : Associate and it will stay that way. Associates have to use the frequent flyer program of their sponsor and don't have any voting rights. KQ & UX use
38 EDICHC : When BA sold BA Connect to FlyBe, I'm certain that part of the deal was BA taking a sizeable shareholding within FlyBe. Would mean the same kind of s
39 JFK787NYC : What would SkyTeam need with Uzbekistan Airways? This has been crossing my mind for months and I still don't have an answer. If they want a carrier fr
40 Seemyseems : Well Uzbek signed a sort of codeshare deal with Korean Air, and they want to expand their network, and this will probably make them more well known a
41 Post contains links Shanxz : I guess they're waiting for IT to stabilize a little from the current crises, and then invite them. There have been rumors of IT starting a hub in Am
42 DELTA7478 : Some likely members (in my opinion) Avianca (would love to see an Avianca with a SkyTeam logo!) Air Tahiti Nui Philippine Airlines (?, currently Blac
43 Shanxz : Etihad will remain un-aligned for the foreseeable future, the CEO mentioned in an interview just last week.
44 LipeGIG : Sky need to find a South American member soon ! GOL is very slow in terms of look to join any alliance. They might also improve their product, consid
45 9252fly : That has to be the best line in this thread!
46 Seemyseems : Seeming CO is leaving SkyTeam, I completely agree with you American, I guess Lufthansa have a reputation for being the 'perfectionists'. From what I h
47 Post contains links Shanxz : Well, Star has a clear plan of going for numbers. They had recently announced that they want to expand to 50 members. On the other hand, OneWorld see
48 DeltaL1011man : plus DL and CI are kinda close. 1? nothing to write home about. (plus they have the world's largest and the World's 2nd largest airlines)
49 Post contains links Skyteam10001 : Vietnam Airlines a full member soon, according to this article quote "Madeline Spielman from Vietnam Airlines announced that the 787 Dreamliner is on
50 Abrelosojos : = This idea that an alliance is a "badge of honor" is antiquated. An alliance is nothing more than a marketing partnership that has grown to mean muc
51 Vietsky : If this news is true, then it will be very good news for people (like me ) who has Golden Lotus Membership (Frequent Fly of VNA). It is very easy to
52 Hmv2007 : That looks like an interesting mix, Vietnam flies to FRA(*Alliance), CDG(Skyteam) and DME, has codeshare agreements with JL, QF, AA, CX(Oneworld)...
53 Hardiwv : There are rumours that SlyTeam is also in conversations with Neelman's Azul, but the fact that Azul is based in VCP would offer zero connections to S
54 Post contains images Seemyseems :   Only the biggest! Don't any SkyTeam members fly to DME? Do you reckon if Avianca joined, then SAM, OceanAir and all the others will join? Or are t
55 Superdawg : AF/KLM would likely be a sponsor given that there is an MoU signed between them and WestJet for future code-sharing and cooperation. However WestJet
56 Hmv2007 : Nope, all the Skyteam members fly to SVO, because it's the Aeroflot hub.
57 EddieDude : Is there an estimated date of entry for VN? I have heard very good things about VN from my good friend and fellow a.netter Macc from Austria.
58 Kiwiandrew : not while QF has a large shareholding in them ( approx 40% IIRC )
59 Cgnnrw : I like Skyteam and usually use AF for my trans-Atlantic travels to the US and then DL for my domestic needs and have been satisfied most times. I've u
60 Seemyseems : When an airline has been invited as an Associate member, the airline (in this case MEA) will have to take on AF-KL's Flying Blue. Because AF sponsore
61 MAS777 : MAS has already done this but is still not getting any nearer to joining Skyteam...
62 9MMAR : MH had also altered their Enrich FFP to exactly mirror Flying Blue but still... MH had an extensive code share agreement with KL, AZ, CZ, CO* and KE (
63 EddieDude : Why is that Doc? Is it really that AF does not want MH in the alliance? There was also a mileage accrual agreement with DL (it ended a year or two ag
64 9MMAR : We may just speculate but having seen VN becoming a front runner for a future membership among the carriers in South East Asia out of a sudden, altho
65 EddieDude : With or without VN on board, the case for MH to be invited to join is quite compelling. MH has a lot of prestige and has been recognized for its cabin
66 Seemyseems : How about BR and PK? PK codeshares with China Southern, and they could really benefit SkyTeam, since AI is definetley in Star Alliance. BR could benef
67 Anonms : BR is close to AA, CI is close to DL. Since when was BR even in the running for being in SkyTeam? Furthermore, CI is the larger of the two and has a
68 Brilondon : I agree completely with Aeroflot777 I usually fly SkyTeam as well, although this time to Hawaii I used AA. I am using them due to the fact I was so s
69 United1 : HA would not be a bad addition to any of the alliances but they seem to be taking a page out of AS book and codesharing with anyone and everyone. Bes
70 Brilondon : This would provide DL with a direct link to Australia and New Zealand which they don't have now. Just finishing my thoughts from my previous post.
71 Jr : Aren't they starting their own service from July 1 to sydney from LAX? Now if they can only build up LAX with any degree of success to better support
72 Kiwiandrew : it still wouldnt give them a link to New Zealand - HA planes come here for maintenance but , as far as I know , there are no scheduled HA ops to AKL
73 EddieDude : Yet. SYD will be launched soon ex-LAX on a non-stop basis with 77L, correct?
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