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Airbus A380 On Flights To USA  
User currently offlineAirsrpska From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14560 times:

HI there!

I was thinking about this long time...
What you guys think about this:
Airbus A 380 single class ( economy of course!) configuration on flights to America?!
Its maximum certified carrying capacity is 853 passengers in an all-economy-class configuration. So, my idea would be;
BA flight from LHR to EWR or,
LH from FRA to EWR ?!

Would that be possible?
Financially, I guess....

By the way, did some airline already ordered single class bird?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyboysp From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14511 times:



Quoting Airsrpska (Thread starter):
By the way, did some airline already ordered single class bird?

Air Austral have order 2 A380 aircraft, with a capacity of 840 passengers.
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/airline...nto-sardine-can-20090116-7imb.html



#proudtobeabulldog
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21498 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14464 times:



Quoting Airsrpska (Thread starter):
Would that be possible?
Financially, I guess....

Both would be possible. But why would an airline want to put an all-economy aircraft on an NYC route? Even though EWR isn't generally seen as the premium traveller airport that JFK is, there is plenty of high-paying traffic in the area to support F and J cabins. Airlines would be shooting themselves in the foot to not offer premium cabins to that market.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14447 times:

Hi

I am not sure I get what you mean. Yes if say BA were only to put economy seats on an A380 then there is no reason why they could not operate a LHR-EWR/JFK service with this. However I don't think BA makes that much money in economy on the New York route and they need to sell Business class seats to make any sort of profit. (I was once told by a BA account manager that the economy class cabin on the LHR-JFK route operates at a loss & that Business class make a big profit)

Alex


User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14457 times:

There is a lot of premium traffic across the pond, why do you think Ryan Air is going to have J class on their USA flights, so I do not see this working, one of the only reasons EK has high density is for flights to mecca


"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineAustralis From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 14378 times:

I really dont see this idea been taking up by any airline at either end of what you propose. Its a premium market which means that airlines focus on business passengers who would bring in more revenue per seat than a normal passenger at the back. And plus, it would only mean that if an airline did this, it would only be daily, while BA and LH fly 3-6 daily on these routes for a reason  Wink

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14307 times:

Definitively none of the full service providers, they use the A380 to sell plenty of space to F, enough space to C, plenty of seats in Y. This leaves enough free payload for the cargo.

There is maybe a market for very low cost TATL, people who have to pay tickets from their own money and cannot get 50% back from taxes. But on this I see 390 seater A333 as best aircraft, low costs, many seats, and filling 390 seats is easier than 850 every day. How many of these are operating currently?

And O'Leary will not get 150 A380 at half price.


User currently offlineFlood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14188 times:

Without meaning to hijack the thread, what about implementing the opposite and operating a 380 exclusively with first and (primarily) business. Basically, to offer a business product with increased space and a more friendly working environment - more in line with a flying office.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14128 times:



Quoting Richcandy (Reply 3):
(I was once told by a BA account manager that the economy class cabin on the LHR-JFK route operates at a loss & that Business class make a big profit)

This is EXACTLY RIGHT! On many transatlantic routes, economy passengers are just ballast. They're there to help cover some, but not all, of the over all costs of the trip. Hence business models like AA's which basically give out rather little in economy on long haul. What those passengers do allow for, however, is the airlines in question to increase frequency to a level otherwise not possible. So basically, the higher amount of frequencies allows airlines like BA to be able capture a much bigger share of the business market then otherwise possible.

What the A380 offers in these cases, is the ability to get PREMIUM class space at lower prices per m2, enabling a more luxurious product.

Compare this to other routes were economy passengers actually pay more then what they cost to fly. That is why companies like SIA, Emirates, Qantas, Cathay etc can well afford to put substancially more effort into their economy cabins. They're actually competing for profitable business. Not profitable enough to work without the premium cabins... but enough to cover their costs and a little on top. Hence why Emirates loves the 77W. They lower they can get the cost base per economy pax...the more they make. If those passengeres were unprofitable... they'd be using a much smaller aircraft very quickly.


User currently offlineSYDAircargo From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14099 times:

well with the downturn in Business traffic it might be an idea. maybe having a 2 class configuration would be better just a few Business seats and the rest in eco

User currently offlineCV990Coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 13963 times:
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Why would anyone want to configure a brand new premium aircraft in all economy class even if it took 800 pax. If I wanted to offer an all economy product I would go for a 767 in 8 abreast or a 330 in 9 abreast.


SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13785 times:

It has been tried before many times over. All economy Transatlantic flights all the airlines have all lost money on it. Remember Laker ? People express ? to name a couple

User currently offlineDRAIGONAIR From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 708 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 13749 times:

840 are a lot of pax...I would see them putting in a bit less so that people have more leg room...That would be a good idea, giving economy a bit more space so that it will be more appealing.

Nick



cheers
User currently offlineSYDAircargo From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 13503 times:

i dont want to see the traffic jam at the baggage claim having a few of the all Eco A380 arriving at one airport at the same time. plus one day we will be back to normal in Air traveling (i hope)
so i dont really see the need for that. unless the destination asks for such a service .
how about DUS-PMI or LHR-PMI for all the Tourists? instaed of LTU flying 9 times a day that route in peak season they could do it in 3 times.
all economy A380 where always discussed in terms of Japan domestic flights. so far no Japanese carrier has ordered one. not even in 3 class config.


User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13370 times:

I can imagine budget airlines in the high-density Middle East routes or on domestic -Japanese routes flying a single-class A380.

Possible routes, eg for FlyDubai or AirArabia might be JXB/Sharjah to DEL/Dhaka/Manila/BOM/Riyadh



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13370 times:



Quoting CV990Coronado (Reply 10):
Why would anyone want to configure a brand new premium aircraft in all economy class even if it took 800 pax. If I wanted to offer an all economy product I would go for a 767 in 8 abreast or a 330 in 9 abreast.

I don't think the thread starter realized how little money there is to be made flying economy class passengers. His idea has merit, from the customer point of view, in that you fly a lot of economy class passengers, making it possible for larger numbers of low income folks to make an Atlantic crossing at a price within their means. Maybe his idea was to encourage more long distance travel by the less-than-well-to-do. Financially sound or not, I like the way he thinks.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13346 times:
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A380 to teh USA today are the Qantas flights to LAX and The Emirates flights to JFK. In a few years Korean Air will operate an A380 to LAX and other US cities. BA, AF and LH are all A380 airlines, so they too will operate it to teh USA, especially JFK & LAX. SQ said Flight to SFO would be an A380 route but today is still an 77W.

User currently offlineShanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13309 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 16):
A380 to teh USA today are the Qantas flights to LAX and The Emirates flights to JFK. In a few years Korean Air will operate an A380 to LAX and other US cities. BA, AF and LH are all A380 airlines, so they too will operate it to teh USA, especially JFK & LAX. SQ said Flight to SFO would be an A380 route but today is still an 77W.

SQ will also replace its existing B744 from SIN - FRA - JFK to an A380 in times to come. This should calm the nerves of folks disappointed with their 744 product, as compared to the rest of the brand new fleet.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineAirsrpska From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12748 times:



Quoting SYDAircargo (Reply 9):
well with the downturn in Business traffic it might be an idea. maybe having a 2 class configuration would be better just a few Business seats and the rest in eco

That's why I posted this thread

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 15):
I don't think the thread starter realized how little money there is to be made flying economy class passengers. His idea has merit, from the customer point of view, in that you fly a lot of economy class passengers, making it possible for larger numbers of low income folks to make an Atlantic crossing at a price within their means. Maybe his idea was to encourage more long distance travel by the less-than-well-to-do. Financially sound or not, I like the way he thinks.

You got me!  Smile


User currently offlineNorlander From Faroe Islands, joined Sep 2007, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 12368 times:

One of the few routes across the pond that - I think - can handle a 840 pax A380 are the holiday flights to Florida. This is a huge market already (mostly from the UK), and could become even bigger if the travel costs came down a bit. If it would cost the same for Scandinavians/Germans/Dutch to have their holiday in Florida compared to the Canary Islands and Turkey then they'd go in even larger numbers. The weather is better, the infrastructure for mass tourism is second-to-none and extended vacations into the old colonial parts of the Caribbean can lure additional travelers.

Many of us crave sunshine during our Winter (1 week in feb) and Easter breaks.



Longtime Lurker
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7801 times:



Quoting Airsrpska (Thread starter):
Its maximum certified carrying capacity is 853 passengers in an all-economy-class configuration. So, my idea would be;
BA flight from LHR to EWR or,
LH from FRA to EWR ?!

The airlines would never go for this type of scenario. The Y class pax is looking for cheap and in order to make a profit you would have to have rather expensive Y class or offer some form of premium class to make any money at this type of venture.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
And O'Leary will not get 150 A380 at half price.

BTW what type of aircraft is O'Leary going to be using on the TATL market and will there be any reclining seats or would you have to put money into a slot on the side of the seat to make it recline?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7138 times:

SQ is cutting capacity on North America, including a REDUCTION in capacity on SFO-HKG-SIN. So I don't expect to see them operating an A380 to America anytime soon, previous pre-global recession statements by SQ notwithstanding.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineJfr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6744 times:

I understood that EK had ordered their 380's with three different seating layouts, including one type with high density economy seating for routes like MNL to DXB.

Did I get this right?


User currently offline_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

I think LO would do pretty well with an all economy A380. Maybe once daily WAW-ORD?
 optimist 


User currently offlineFlygbear From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6091 times:

How about carriers lease an all-economy A380 for holidays/special events. Such as El Al during the Christmas holiday rush, or Mecca charters, World Cup soccer finals. TAM could lease during Mardi Gra. I'm sure it would have been a hit in China during the Olympics, were it available at that time. Those examples would be a landslide for the carrier, at least in load factors.

That alone would make an airline CEO salivate.

flygbear



flygbear/MSP
25 Alessandro : No, I don´t think the EU-US market is big enough for that, too many operators. Air Austral order is more a "political" one to me than purely biz. Rya
26 LACA773 : I thought QF would've been flying SYD-LAX daily with the 388 by now, and not just x4 per week going up one additional frequency in addition to the x2
27 Viscount724 : Don't forget that EK also crams in more economy passengers on all their 777s than most other carriers thanks to their 10-abreast configuration. They
28 Ual747 : Do they enough aircraft to do that at this point? Enough A380's I mean. As far as all economy A380 it needs to be high demand leisure markets where y
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