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TAM - Any Future European Routes?  
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 970 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

I was looking at TAM's European network, they currently serve: CDG, LHR, FRA, MXP and MAD. Will they start more services in Europe, maybe LIS or AMS, I don't see why they serve MAD but not LIS, as Brazil is a Portugese speaking country.
Cheers


seemyseems
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5145 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Thread starter):
I was looking at TAM's European network, they currently serve: CDG, LHR, FRA, MXP and MAD. Will they start more services in Europe, maybe LIS or AMS, I don't see why they serve MAD but not LIS, as Brazil is a Portugese speaking country.
Cheers

They had plans in the past to fly to LIS and ZRH but at this moment, i believe their next destination will be JNB and as soon as possible, BOG. TAM already requested a 2nd service to SCL and more services to MVD to ANAC to be released soon.

And the reason to serve MAD and not LIS, is that because TAM has a code-share with TAP which flies from LIS the most extensive network from Brazil concerning to a foreign carrier (they fly not only to São Paulo, but also SSA, REC, FOR, CNF, BSB, NAT and GIG). So TAM is able to offer to it's passengers this valuable service and a flight out of their main hub in São Paulo will not be so competitive against TAP's network.
But of course, if they believe the South of Brazil, a TAM fortress and competitive advantage, is able to fill a flight, they will try it, probably with two aircrafts and an overnight flight both ways.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 970 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5120 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):

You certainly know your stuff!  Smile

It would be good if they started ZRH, but if they start JNB, that would make them the first Brazilian carrier flying into RSA.

I am surprised they haven't got BOG, I thought that would be a top destination for them, do they codeshare with Avianca on this route?

Aren't TAP expanding in South America?

Would be interesting!



seemyseems
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5117 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
They had plans in the past to fly to LIS and ZRH but at this moment, i believe their next destination will be JNB and as soon as possible, BOG. TAM already requested a 2nd service to SCL and more services to MVD to ANAC to be released soon.

LipeGIG, do you know, if JJ will make its CCS flights non-stop from GRU?
Are there any news/rumours about MEX and serving a US/UA/CO hub in the US?
How is their LIM flight doing? How are the chances that they will stop their codeshare agreement with LAN and return to TA?



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

How is TAM faring during the economic recession? Things are tough for a lot of carriers.

Will TAM like other carriers slow down with their growth? That's what I would think.

I'm surprised they haven't tried to return those A340s to AC. They don't need to expand widebody lift right now.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5055 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 2):
but if they start JNB, that would make them the first Brazilian carrier flying into RSA.

Not really. Varig flew to RSA for a long time before its decline began.

GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG and eventually just GRU-JNB


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5052 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 2):
that would make them the first Brazilian carrier flying into RSA.

Varig flew to JNB and CPT in the past. To JNB, in fact, for years, not to mention the continuation to BKK and HKG!

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 2):
I am surprised they haven't got BOG,

They can't fly to Colombia because of bilateral restrictions. Avianca's lobby has been successful in stopping any amendment attempts.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4960 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 2):
I am surprised they haven't got BOG, I thought that would be a top destination for them, do they codeshare with Avianca on this route?

In fact the bilateral is restrictive and limited to just 7 weekly frequencies. But it seems yesterday the issue has been discussed and soon we should see more frequencies. Brazil-Colombia should be a 28 weekly market.
As a side note, Colombia President was looking for having Petrobras as a major investor on Cartagena Oil Refinery, after Gleencore give up it's investment plans on the unit. Trade between Brazil and Colombia is not big, around US$ 3,3 billion and in general due to intercompany transactions.

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 2):
Aren't TAP expanding in South America?

Not now, they need to turn some Brazilian routes more profitable before. But we have discussed this in the past, and a flight to EZE (even from OPO) would be interesting to connect some parts of Spain.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 3):
LipeGIG, do you know, if JJ will make its CCS flights non-stop from GRU?
Are there any news/rumours about MEX and serving a US/UA/CO hub in the US?
How is their LIM flight doing? How are the chances that they will stop their codeshare agreement with LAN and return to TA?

LH506, there are plans for such non-stop, but TAM is looking closer how Varig/Gol is performing. BOG, SCL and CCS (for RG) are not money makers right now. And TAM experience with CCS, is just good, as well as CCS and BOG would demand a widebodie also, something TAM does not have available during the night.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 4):
How is TAM faring during the economic recession? Things are tough for a lot of carriers.

Doing okay, numbers are still good at least during December and January. International flight remains strong because of the strong Brazilian domestic network. If one day São Paulo market is weak, they fill the flight with POA, CWB, IGU, RAO, CNF, BSB, VIX, FLN...
If the other day the connections from the south are not so great, southeast helps to fill the flight, if it's not a business day, leisure destinations helps... this "fortress" against many carriers (except those with agreements with them) helps them a lot.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 4):
Will TAM like other carriers slow down with their growth? That's what I would think.

They already stop their fleet expansion. No more widebodies are expected for 2009. Short haul will be limited to some A319 looking for SDU possibilites.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 4):
I'm surprised they haven't tried to return those A340s to AC. They don't need to expand widebody lift right now.

The A345 will be a money maker in 2010 with the World Cup. You can expect 2 daily flights to JNB/CPT during 3/6 months, always packed.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4904 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
They can't fly to Colombia because of bilateral restrictions. Avianca's lobby has been successful in stopping any amendment attempts.

Source? AV has actually been seeking some more frequencies...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Trade between Brazil and Colombia is not big, around US$ 3,3 billion and in general due to intercompany transactions.

Indeed, but the new relationship between the two countries is growing at an unbelievable pace. Uribe and Lula are very close and the bilateral should at least be expanded to 21 weekly freqs. soon.

What about JJ flying to FCO? Is there a market?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
Indeed, but the new relationship between the two countries is growing at an unbelievable pace. Uribe and Lula are very close and the bilateral should at least be expanded to 21 weekly freqs. soon

I hope. AV would focus to have more access to the Brazilian Market as they can offer connections to North America to places like BSB, BEL, FOR and NAT, not serviced non-stop to places like MIA !

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
What about JJ flying to FCO? Is there a market?

Yes, there is a market to FCO, but right now the huge demand to Italy is from Rio. Rio originates as per Italy's travel agents, about 33% of the demand to Italy and does not have a single flight. GIG-FCO or GIG-MXP would be a real nice addition, but in my view, before this, TAM would try to use the 77W on GRU-MXP.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4830 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
The A345 will be a money maker in 2010 with the World Cup. You can expect 2 daily flights to JNB/CPT during 3/6 months, always packed.

Is it worth TAM keeping this expensive aircraft just to have it available for the World Cup?

And sporting events tend to lead to disappointment in terms of travel. During World Cup traffic will probably be extremely directional, with 99% loads in one direction and 25% loads in the other. The World Cup benefits because of its duration, but events like the Olympics are terrible for generating big movements on airlines.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4721 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
They had plans in the past to fly to LIS and ZRH but at this moment, i believe their next destination will be JNB and as soon as possible, BOG. TAM already requested a 2nd service to SCL and more services to MVD to ANAC to be released soon.

Indeed, JNB, BOG should be TAM priority nowadays. In addition, we will see more flights to SCL (LX decided to drop GRU-SCL and will now operate ZRH-GRU dedicated), and we will also see an evening departure GRU-MVD. In future, we could expect GRU-CCS nonstop (perhaps GRU-CCS-MIA) and as I mentioned here before GRU-MEX should be among the future routes as well.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
But it seems yesterday the issue has been discussed and soon we should see more frequencies. Brazil-Colombia should be a 28 weekly market.

Brazil-Colombia will be increased to 28 weekly or 14 weekly and TAM will be free to implement nonstop service. AV enhanced BOG-GRU introducing the A330 with more seats and the new business class.

Quoting Seemyseems (Thread starter):
I was looking at TAM's European network, they currently serve: CDG, LHR, FRA, MXP and MAD. Will they start more services in Europe, maybe LIS or AMS, I don't see why they serve MAD but not LIS, as Brazil is a Portugese speaking country.

I do not expect AMS or ZRH to be introduced in 2009 (remember, from March LX ZRH-GRU will become dicated service and KLM is taking good care of GRU-AMS and subsidiary Martinair will start AMS-VCP MD-11F cargo service in March).

In my opinion, TAM will consolidate the current European routes and adjust some aircraft deployment in Europe. Perhaps CDG with 3 daily flights could be reduced. We could see however routes such as GIG-FRA or GIG-LHR launched, but we need to see what will happen to GIG domestic network after SDU is opened for domestic flights.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4596 times:



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
Source? AV has actually been seeking some more frequencies...

Only if that is the case now, because JJ always wanted to compete with RG in the route.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
LX decided to drop GRU-SCL and will now operate ZRH-GRU dedicated

Oh no! LH-LX are pulling out of SCL!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4575 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Oh no! LH-LX are pulling out of SCL!

The last LX flight SCL-GRU will operate on 30 March 2009.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4504 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
The last LX flight SCL-GRU will operate on 30 March 2009.

Are you sure? The last bookable flight is on March 29th. Since when is tha leg cancelled after all? It's the first time I hear about it.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4486 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
Are you sure? The last bookable flight is on March 29th. Since when is tha leg cancelled after all? It's the first time I hear about it

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4321608/

Rgs,


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8576 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4471 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
And the reason to serve MAD and not LIS, is that because TAM has a code-share with TAP which flies from LIS the most extensive network from Brazil concerning to a foreign carrier (they fly not only to São Paulo, but also SSA, REC, FOR, CNF, BSB, NAT and GIG).

I think it's a lot more than a code-share agreement. I think they actually have a "gentleman's agreement" where TAM will never go head-to-head against TP on the same route. There are also rumors that TAP and TAM are working towards a TATL revenue sharing agreement similar to what KL/NW have (used to have?).


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4345 times:
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Quoting AF022 (Reply 10):
Is it worth TAM keeping this expensive aircraft just to have it available for the World Cup?

Yes. So far the A345 has been an interesting asset considering current demand to Italy. Because of AZ situation, it's probably a very strong advance bookings station (MXP).

Quoting AF022 (Reply 10):
And sporting events tend to lead to disappointment in terms of travel. During World Cup traffic will probably be extremely directional, with 99% loads in one direction and 25% loads in the other. The World Cup benefits because of its duration, but events like the Olympics are terrible for generating big movements on airlines.

Considering Brazil, and how people are fanatic for soccer and World Cup (i was on the last one), TAM already have a lot of requests (blocks) for charters and for sure, considering that SA will be in need to manage additional demand from several places, TAM would be able to run a 2x daily service to JNB and CPT with the 2 A345 with 90% or higher loads.
The World Cup in my opinion is even better than the Olympics in terms of air traffic. First for the domestic market because it's an event with huge stadiums and more city's (Olympics can host games for 5,000 people and some for 60,000 in the same city but World Cup is always for Huge crowds plus a lot of people in other spaces like Germany with their very smart Fun Fest Spaces in 2006 World Cup plus it's the entire country).
Also, it's easy to see people flying to see just 1, 2 or 3 games while during Olympics, in my view, people stay more on the city.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11):
In my opinion, TAM will consolidate the current European routes and adjust some aircraft deployment in Europe. Perhaps CDG with 3 daily flights could be reduced. We could see however routes such as GIG-FRA or GIG-LHR launched, but we need to see what will happen to GIG domestic network after SDU is opened for domestic flights.

Agree with CDG. They do have plans for another service from GIG and shortly they could introduce the First Class on it's GIG-CDG service.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
The last LX flight SCL-GRU will operate on 30 March 2009.

Thanks for the info, seems that LX/LH will rely on TAM to provide the connection from GRU-SCL. Probably the second flight will be a night flight to provide an early morning product SCL-GRU. But would be a good use of the 767 parked at GIG during the day, to perform a GIG-SCL.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
I think it's a lot more than a code-share agreement. I think they actually have a "gentleman's agreement" where TAM will never go head-to-head against TP on the same route. There are also rumors that TAP and TAM are working towards a TATL revenue sharing agreement similar to what KL/NW have (used to have?).

Agree with you, but TAM could offer additional offer on GRU-LIS that TP probably will not be able to get. So i think when the crisis gone, we could see LIS as a potential target for JJ.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4324 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
The World Cup in my opinion is even better than the Olympics in terms of air traffic.

I also agree with your point above.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
But would be a good use of the 767 parked at GIG during the day, to perform a GIG-SCL.

It would be a smart move to deploy the B767 GIG-SCL nonstop. Currently LAN is behind competition because it does not offer GIG nonstop: LA operates 2 flights to GIG and both via GRU (one with B767 and the other with A320).

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4291 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
It would be a smart move to deploy the B767 GIG-SCL nonstop. Currently LAN is behind competition because it does not offer GIG nonstop: LA operates 2 flights to GIG and both via GRU (one with B767 and the other with A320).

And makes a lot of sense in both terms of cargo and passengers. The 767 can also bring some valuable cargo from SCL to JFK, MIA and CDG overnight flights.
LA flights to GIG use to perform very well but seems that their decision was based on the fact they tried to maximize revenue in my view as they decided to reduce the numbers of flights to Brazil from 5 to just 3 or 4 depending on the day.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8576 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4272 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Agree with you, but TAM could offer additional offer on GRU-LIS that TP probably will not be able to get. So i think when the crisis gone, we could see LIS as a potential target for JJ.

TP already flies to GRU twice daily. I think TAM would be better off utilizing the aircraft where they can get higher yields and where there is less *A competition. I think places like LAX, SFO, and possibly MUC and DXB would be stronger performers for TAM.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4256 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
TP already flies to GRU twice daily.

And TP gate is next to EK in GRU....very nice to see!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
LA flights to GIG use to perform very well but seems that their decision was based on the fact they tried to maximize revenue in my view as they decided to reduce the numbers of flights to Brazil from 5 to just 3 or 4 depending on the day.

You are right, LA tried to maximise revenue and cut flights to Brazil leading to deterioration of service to GIG (overall LAN cut network capacity in 15% in 2009). Now flying GIG to SCL is more than 6h and you have to connect in GRU (TAM or GOL) or endure a stop-over with LAN. Also only one LAN flight now offers premium business in GIG (B767 afternoon departure). I think this was wrong decision by LAN considering that AR, CM and TA all offer nonstop flights. Chile is also strong in mining sector which is a sector largely based in GIG.

LA could at least operate a daily SCL-GIG A320 daily (which does not operate even during the busy Summer months!!). The lack of GIG-SCL nonstop is certainly the major missing airlink in GIG nowadays. It is crazy to think that it takes more than 6h to fly from GIG to SCL...

Rgs,


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

Not European, but what are the chances of TAM ever starting BEY (to tap into VFR from Brazilians of Lebanese/Syrian origins)?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4216 times:
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Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
TP already flies to GRU twice daily. I think TAM would be better off utilizing the aircraft where they can get higher yields and where there is less *A competition. I think places like LAX, SFO, and possibly MUC and DXB would be stronger performers for TAM.

Considering future plans, in my view:

From São Paulo
GRU-BCN
GRU-FCO
GRU-BOG
GRU-COR
GRU-ROS
GRU-LOS
GRU-LAD
GRU-JNB

From Rio de Janeiro
GIG-FRA
GIG-LHR
GIG-SCL



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4190 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
From Rio de Janeiro
GIG-FRA
GIG-LHR
GIG-SCL

Agree.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
From São Paulo
GRU-BCN
GRU-FCO
GRU-BOG
GRU-COR
GRU-ROS
GRU-LOS
GRU-LAD
GRU-JNB

In my view:

GRU-BOG
GRU-MEX
GRU-CCS (nonstop)
GRU-VVI (nonstop)
GRU-COR
GRU-ROS
GRU-JNB
GRU-LAX/SFO

Rgs,


25 LipeGIG : I forget... a GIG-Italy (MXP or FCO) if AZ does not begin a service.
26 Hardiwv : TAM GIG-MXP would be more interesting than GRU-FCO in my opinion. I think TAM could consider GIG-MXP/LHR/FRA in 2009. I do not think AZ will open GIG
27 LipeGIG : AZ has plans to open a new South American route, and i believe they would venture Rome-Rio, and as you mentioned, reducing service to São Paulo to d
28 Hardiwv : AZ opening new routes? I dont think this will happen. I see AZ further reducing routes or capacity as was the case recently. I see no conditions for
29 LipeGIG : Lets see. It's a corporate announcement (a new South American destination), not my expectation. And they already mentioned their plans to add a fligh
30 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : TAM served ZRH for a couple of years in 2001 and 2002 and pulled out. If the route didn't work then when the economy was much stronger, I doubt it wo
31 Rafabozzolla : I would not think so. TAM Mercosur dropped its one stop GRU-ASU-COR flight, so I don't see JJ doing it non-stop and even les so, flying to a smaller
32 Kiwiandrew : although if they do it in co-operation with their *A partner LX that could make a difference - say for example that LX continues ZRH-GRU and JJ opera
33 LipeGIG : It's one of the reasons i meant ... had plans... Schedule of the past GRU-ASU-COR service was terrible and wont allow people from COR to connect at G
34 C010T3 : ZRH was a tag-on. JJ tried to fly to FRA in a total lack of experience. JJ strategy is always to enter well established routes by other carriers (whi
35 LipeGIG : Also, at that time, TAM network in Brazil to feed GRU was very limited.
36 Varig md-11 : does anybody know if it's confirmed that JJ moves from CDG2A to CDG1? it's a rumour that we hear all the time at CDG Since we are a Star alliance hub
37 Hardiwv : I agree that COR has great potential. Perhaps TAM could operate GRU-COR-ROS in a combined flight. I even find that MZA also has some market for TAM.
38 Varig md-11 : oops I forgot about the MXP JJ A345, dank u hardiwv but then it could use CDG1 as a hub to connect Star partner to the direct JJ flight to SSA
39 Airbazar : They were a small carrier back then, relatively unknown. They're a more established carrier, with a lot more to offer, and a member of *A. ZRH is a *
40 LipeGIG : Hardi, TAM would not get rights for COR-ROS and it would reduce the profitability of the flight. You would need to start 2 stations for an average 80
41 SJOtoLIR : Varig flew in the past to these African stations meaning that they are not an untapped market and the flow of passengers really exists there. Regards
42 C010T3 : But not from GRU.
43 Seemyseems : Can I ask, why do TAM's aircraft say; The Magic Red Carpet? Just a bit out of the blue!
44 Post contains links Viscount724 : If memory correct, those Africa routes were from GIG, not GRU. Varig also served ABJ. They had a fatal 707 crash soon after takeoff from ABJ en route
45 Rafabozzolla : Yes, it did, from GIG. RG used mostly 707s until the 1980s, and also flew to ABJ (anyone remember the crash at Abidjan?) . But it had nothing to do w
46 SJOtoLIR : RG 798....GRU 21:10.......GIG unknown......Tu........D10 RG 798....GIG 23:00........LAD 10:00+1.......Tu........D10 RG 799....LAD 12:45........GIG 16
47 Rafabozzolla : Came from an early marketing strategy where pax where greeted on the tarmac at CGH and other airports w/o jetway, by the captain (sometimes even by R
48 Robffm2 : The red carpet is still there in front of the the boarding stairs. Also in many airports there is a red carpet in front of the check-in counters (and
49 Antonioavelar : Don't forget that TAP and VARIG used to fly the same routes (before RG's demise), and they actually code-shared their LIS-Brazil flights. That might h
50 Hardiwv : You are right. I have internal information that the second TAM operated flight to SCL will operate with the schedule in the following lines: TAM GRU-
51 AF022 : These routes to Africa were served before GRU built up as the international gateway for RG. Now I'm sure these routes would be better served from GRU
52 Robffm2 : Maybe to MUC, as that flight leaves about 2 hours later. If it works nicely with MUC we might see an increase in capacity/frequency again. Would be g
53 Incitatus : That probably has to do with TAM having watched Transbrasil and Vasp enter second-rate destinations that Varig did not want to serve and then have to
54 C010T3 : I'm sorry, but VP's and TR's routes weren't even second-rate... ATH, SEL, VIE... Only BRU could have worked if SN had given enough support.
55 Rafabozzolla : Actually, at least for VP,loads where not the problem. Especially flights to BCN, MAD and BRU were consistently full. But, with dirty cheap fares, yie
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