Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs  
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Posted (13 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 9085 times:

Finally! They've seen the light in Atlanta!

Delta Air Lines has finally changed its nonrev policies in order to stop giving away the store to employees of stingy airlines.

Delta has announced that effective immediately it will reciprocate embargoes on nonrevenue travel by employees of carriers which embargo Delta nonrevs. This is aimed mostly at Skyteam partner Aeromexico, which embargoes nonrev travel quite frequently. However, this policy will apply to all carriers.

In addition, Delta is introducing a new non-revenue passenger boarding priority code to the system. This code restricts certain nonrevenue passengers to boarding in the coach class cabin only. This is consistent with what Delta nonrev passengers would experience when traveling on those carriers. Employees of the following carriers will be restricted to coach only when traveling on Delta:

AM
VH
AF
JM
LY
KE
AT
TR
SA

More carriers will be added in the future.

Finally... we will treat other carrier's nonrevs as we are treated. Delta is no longer the airline that gives away F/J class to anybody and everybody.

I am elated.

DeltaSFO


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

So...since I would be a non-rev from UA, I could still get Business Elite...right?

User currently offlineBen88 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Even though this sucks since I work for AF, I think it's the right move for DL. I don't see why an airline should give away their premium product to non-rev passengers from other airlines. It makes no financial sense.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

About time IMHO.

Speaking as both a non-rev and a Silver Medallion!


User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

Yes, if you are a UA employee traveling as a non-rev on DL, you will be able to sit in BuzElite if available.


Solodude!
User currently offlineTsully From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8658 times:

As far as UAL employees on DL go, it was my understanding that in order to be eligible for Biz Elite, we had to purchase id 75's. So last time I went on Delta, I think I had an id 90 or 95 which I was told would only get me y-class. When I got Biz Elite, I was surprised as I had been told that it was not possible without an id 75. I can see the sense in this ideology, but now I'm not sure what the policy is.
Thanks for any clarification.
tsully



I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8570 times:

Nice to see positive responses to this development. I see it as an important step by Delta towards advocating for us, the people of Delta, as our travels lead us to fly other carriers. It is not fair that we cannot even fly AM on certain days and cannot ever get upgraded on AM when we are able to fly, yet an AM employee can standby for BusinessElite on any given day of the year. And AM is our Skyteam partner!

Thanks, Uncle Leo!

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineSJC>SFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

Alright here comes another ignorant question from the non-aviation industry person. What is a nonrev really? This post brings me to the understanding that any airline employee from any US airline can fly free on any other US airline with some sort of "ID90" when space is availible on the flight. What is this ID90, who gets them, how? If the system is too complicated to explain just a few little basics would really help me out here!

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

An ID90 stands for "Industry Discount 90%". Most airlines have "interline agreements" with other carriers so that their staff can travel on the other carrier by paying just 10% of the published fare. This percentage may vary from carrier to carrier.

There are many types of IDs, and they all have a number at the end which denotes the discounted percentage. So an ID90 is 90% discount, an ID75 is 75% discount, etc... The only exception is the ID00 (very rare, but oh so precious) which stands for a 100% discount.

All of these collectively are called "NRSA" (Non Revenue Space Available) fares. This means that you ONLY travel if there is space available on the aircraft. If there are more NRSAs than spots available, the NRSAs are ordered by what is called the "S priority" which ranges from S1 to S5 (there are also other categorizations, but most NRSA travel falls under S codes so thats all I am gonna explain here). S1s get priority over S2s who trump S3s and so forth. Most interline ID90 travel is with S4 or S5 priority, and most "pass riding" (travelling on your own airline) is S3 priority. Usually airlines give their employees S2 passes as incentives, and occasionally give S2 passes to interline staff who they have a close working relationship with (for example, my dad had a contact with Alitalia who invariably produced S2s for us).

The holy grail of non-rev tickets are the ID00PS passes which are essentially completely free POSITIVE SPACE passes on another carrier. If you want a seat, its yours for free and they will bump a revenue passenger for you. These are usually reserved for senior management only. I have personally only travelled once on one of these (Tower Air on JFK-AMS-BOM) - but my dad has snagged a few for himself over the years. They are used very sparingly, unless your name is Warren Jensen (sorry Delta folks, couldn't resist that potshot!).

That sums up most of the regularly used non-rev terminology!  Smile


User currently offlineTsully From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8519 times:

B747-437B did a good job of explaining the basics of NRSA travel... so I won't reiterate.

It is common for say, an employee of Airline X to purchase an ID 90 or even ID 95 on Airline Y, but this standby ticket may only be valid for y-class travel. If the employee of Airline X wants to have a shot at first class on Airline Y, he may have to purchase an ID 75, thus paying 5% or 10% more than y-class for that luxury.

Hope this isn't all to confusing  Smile

regards,
tsully



I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
User currently offlineSJC>SFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8505 times:

B747-437B and Tsully: thanks for all the info!... just what I was looking for. One more question though, regarding the ID75s or such for getting in to Premium cabins, are these 75% discount on the business class fare? Or the coach fare? And also, is the ID90 discount on the regular, full walk up fare?

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8504 times:

Usually the ID90 calculates from the full Y fare, but some kindly carriers allow you to calculate it from a lower unrestricted variant (such as a Y8 or a Y26).

You *can* calculate your ID fare from a Business or First Class fare if you like, and that usually gives you standby priority for that fare class. However, I don't know of any suckers who do this regularly (with the exception of the "protected J/F ID90" tickets which is a special case only issued by some Asian carriers).

Some carriers don't allow interline staff into premium cabins PERIOD. Others like DL will put you up front regardless of fare paid. Now DL is cracking down and saying that if you don't put our employees up front, we won't put yours there either. And thats the whole point of this new policy.


User currently offlineDash8tech From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 732 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8476 times:

DeltaSFO: Errrm, at Horizon we don't have the luxury of offering you first or biz class, however our seats are all leather  Wink/being sarcastic

Anyway, flew Biz-Elite to MAN via ATL from PDX last year round trip and had a great time, is this out in the future then??

Cheers.


User currently offlineAF Cabin Crew From French Polynesia, joined Sep 1999, 1041 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8477 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I don't know why we are getting this rating at Air France as I always see Delta passengers in l'Espace Affaires while our own employees are travelling in Tempo.
For the Embargo dates I can't comment as I don't know what AF is telling you but I can certainly tell you that all Delta nonrevs are travelling in the front when there is room. the only time I saw them in tempo was because there was no romm what so ever in both First and Business.

It is great that your airline give you the priority over other airlines unlike ours who has always let DL nonrevs travel in Business class and not its own employees.

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Alain Mengus




Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
User currently offlineN175dz From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2000, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8462 times:

Another semi-ignorant question!

Will this have any effect on Friends and Family people travelling on S4 pases (like me!). I've had my fare share of luck getting biz-elite over the last couple of years. Is this all going to change?

Thanks in advance,

Phil.


User currently offlinePHLFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8426 times:

B747-437B did a great job of explaining the non-rev concept. ID00's are rare, but not if you are in the right segment of the industry. I worked in the sales office for a small International Airline. We could get ID00's on US, DL, CO, AA, BA, SR and pretty much any airline with offices in the area. We would of course reciprocate in turn.

At Christmas, I would make up letters for our Director of Sales to send out asking other airlines to exchange free passes for our Christmas Party. We would usually get about 20 letters back. At our Christmas party, we would give out the free passes. There were only 5 of us, so everyone received at least 3-5 passes.


User currently offlineA330_DTW From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8425 times:

This doesn't bode well for employee relations in regards to the Skyteam alliance.

KLM does not upgrade NW nonrevs on their flights, unless it's the ONLY thing available. However, we at NW still upgrade KL employees (all airline employees) if space is available and if they are dressed appropriately for the class of service.

Our thinking is that if we treat them well, they, in turn, will treat us better. Is it working? Not yet!


User currently offlineThe Ticketor From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8399 times:

Skyteam doesn't sound like a team with these strange rules. I understand why DL want's to do something about it.

For the interested, there is also another kind of ID-ticket widely used (at least here in Europe), the so called ZED-ticket. ZED stands for Zonal Employee Discount. The ZED fare is not calculated as a percentage (as the ID90 and such), but depends on the mileage of your trip. There are eight different zones, and three levels of fares (low, medium and high).

Carriers decide what fare levels (L, M or H) they give other employees, but H is usually reserved for parents, and only L and M fares used by the employee.
Fare examples (in USD):
Zone 1 0-450 miles L 13, M 19, H25
Zone 2 451-750 miles L 16, M 25, H36

To this, all applicable taxes must be added. This is SA tickets only (space available, iow stand-by). Boarding priority depends on which airline you work for, seniority and job title. My airline has around 60 (!) different combinations of ticket types and priority codes.


User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8355 times:

Regardless of the carrier we work for, shouldnt we treat each other as family, and as our own. I understand DL's disapointment with the unfiarness, but what does it cost a carrier to move someone up into a premimum cabin? if there is space avaialbe, and they are traveling on an id-90, the 10% they are paying more the covers the cost of the meal, and since BEvERages are free on international flts, tahts not a factor.. am i missing something here?!?!?! Even VS was going to move me up into a premium cabin until someone walked up and bought a full fare ticket (that gurantees them at least premium economy on VS) which made the preimum economy cabin full and they had to move a premium economy pax to upper class which took my seat from upper class and moved me back to steerage where i had a wonderful flight in an exitrow with no one next to me.

User currently offlineMikeybien From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

speaking of Delta, listen to this story: I was going to work as a bagsmasher for a company that does contracted work for Delta in DEN, but i decided to work for F9 instead when i found out Delta didn't offer any flight benefits to their contracted employees there. The funny thing was, Delta gave F9 employees 1 Y class round trip every year! F9 employees who never touched Delta's aircraft got more benefits than those who actually worked for them! How stupid is that?

User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Ahh! The Ticketor! You beat me to it! Big grin I was reading about that in the okay magazine you sent me...

according to the article it also says that airlines such as United and Continental have signed up for this ZED program recently... personally to be it makes a lot of sense than just writing out separate tickets when you can write one ticket for the distance of the trip... must work like a charm.

And I congratulate Delta as well on cracking down on AM and other stingy airlines, but I still believe that Delta is one of the best airlines when it comes to non-rev travel...

Moi,
Kai



Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Of course, from a consumer perspective, this means very little.

DeltaSFO - care to comment who gets priority for the operational upgrade now? The Medallion on an L fare or the AeroMexico interline staff? I think I know the answer.

Simply Good Business.  Smile


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 8314 times:

I don't know why we are getting this rating at Air France as I always see Delta passengers in l'Espace Affaires while our own employees are travelling in Tempo.
For the Embargo dates I can't comment as I don't know what AF is telling you but I can certainly tell you that all Delta nonrevs are travelling in the front when there is room. the only time I saw them in tempo was because there was no romm what so ever in both First and Business.

It is great that your airline give you the priority over other airlines unlike ours who has always let DL nonrevs travel in Business class and not its own employees.


AF Cabin Crew...

I knew somebody would bring that up sooner or later. Delta employees are sometimes upgraded into C class on AF when those seats are *Delta block seats*... in otherwords, seats that Delta actually buys from AF and sells as its own. Even when that happens, we don't always get upgraded. Not too long ago, I was in ATL, preparing to fly out on the AF 777. I thought it would be fun to find out what our Skyteam partner AF's 777 was like. I checked the load in Deltamatic and it showed several Delta block seats available in C class. Sure enough, I rode across the Atlantic in Business. Wonderful meal and service, by the way! On the return, there were also several DL block seats available in C, yet I was handed a boarding pass for seat 44E or something like that. When I asked the gate agent casually, "So Business filled up, huh?," she answered back snottily, "We never get upgraded, so why should you?" Disappointed, I handed the boarding pass back and flew home in BusinessElite on DL145.

Now, if I was flying on, say, AF from LAX to PPT, a flight on which Delta does not buy seats or codeshare, AF policy would be to seat me in Y class. If Y class is full but C or F are not, AF policy would be for me to sit in the terminal and watch as the aircraft pushes back. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just repeating the information that I've been given as a Delta CSA.

On AM, it's even worse. Whether there are Delta block seats available up front or not, they don't care. You as a DL/AF/KE nonrev will end up in the last 5 rows of the aircraft. Guaranteed.

At least KE will give you a decent seat in coach class.

Please understand, I have nothing against these carriers, and nothing against flying coach when it's the only thing available. All I'm saying is that I work hard, and I am entitled to enjoy my travel privileges to the fullest extent possible. When Delta buys seats in C class and those seats aren't always allocated to Delta nonrevs, that's unfair, wouldn't you say?

When Delta doesn't buy seats on a certain flight and the operating carrier's policy is to seat nonrevs in coach class only, that's nobody's fault. I, and apparently the majority of DL employees who nonrev a lot on our Skyteam and codeshare partners, just don't think it's fair that our management doesn't reciprocate.

B747-437B....

LOL... Simply Good Business? Let's not go there... Big grin

Not too long ago, on our HNL flight, we upgraded some Medallion members on L fares when we were oversold in back. I hope that answers your question. Big grin

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 8296 times:

Ssshhhh! You upgraded an L fare! Don't let *them* find out!  Smile

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (13 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

B747-437B......

Even worse... I didn't even collect segments or upgrade certificates from them! Completely free upgrades just because it was full in back! That's what the poor guys get for flying us a lot. Big grin

DeltaSFO



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
25 Post contains images Nycank : Operational upgrade on a U fare ! from Europe (I'm not gonna say which fl. no. ) I nearly fainted..... For a few minutes I forgave Christine & Kevin f
26 Tsully : >B747-437B and Tsully: thanks for all the info!... just >what I was looking for. One more question though, >regarding the ID75s or such for getting in
27 AKelley728 : DeltaSFO: My brother works for Delta Global Services, and as of May 1st DGS employees get full travel privileges as regular Delta employees. Since his
28 DeltaSFO : Wow... I didn't know they were going to give DGS full travel privileges. Are you sure he's going to get unlimited S3's in North and South America? Any
29 Post contains images AKelley728 : DeltaSFO: If I was to venture a guess, I would say yes. What he told me is all he have to do is show his 'Delta Card' anytime at the counter and they'
30 Delta15 : I think it was tsully who said that the gate agents have the last say on who gets on and sits where. This is so true, as I checked out a flight that m
31 Tsully : At UAL, we have "buddy" passes (companion passes used for friends). One of the many catches is the fact the employee must be traveling with the compan
32 Post contains images DeltaSFO : Akelley.... Each certificate is good for one roundtrip with one stopover on the Delta system, including Delta codeshare flights operated by other carr
33 AKelley728 : Whoa... that sucks regarding the Buddy passes. So if my brother were to give a buddy pass to me or a friend of his who is not a Delta empoyee, he woul
34 Post contains images B747-437B : Delta15 : I read your little rant about your brother having to fly in the back on an S3 and I am forever grateful that my non-revving experiences neve
35 Wpr8e : I think it is worth saying that many of the comments above are only reflective DL and perhaps some other US airlines. CO allows unlimited travel to al
36 Post contains images N202PA : Does anyone know how Air Canada's travel benefits work? DeltaSFO-- did you work for AC at one point, or am I mistaken? Thanks!
37 SJC>SFO : OK.... way off topic, but if you (or anyone who knows) could answer this question I'd be eternally grateful. I emailed UA Mileage Plus about it and th
38 Teahan : Hey, SJC>SFO, I don't want to sound stupid, but you must really think everyone on this site is a slave. I mean, if you are too lazy to find out yourse
39 Tsully : DeltaSFO: I've got to run, so I can't write as much as I'd like to. My dad is LAXFO. Talk to you later. SJC>SFO: Sorry, but I don't know the answer to
40 Post contains images Deltaflyertoo : Oh, DeltaSFO, admit it, what would you do without good ole Uncle Leo?
41 Uncle Leo : Dear DeltaSFO, Please be assured that we appreciate your support for our new policy. It is a beginning of a trend within SkyTeam, whose new motto for
42 Post contains images DeltaSFO : Dear Uncle Leo.... Thanks for your response. It's nice to know that our CEO takes the time to talk to us. Now, the real question is, when will Atlanta
43 SJC>SFO : Teahan- Sorry I phrased what I said incorrectly... and I didn't really tell the whole story. The fact is that last time I went in there for an actual
44 Post contains links Akelley728 : Hey SJC>SFO... I thikn the answer to your question is that you can use the 5000 certs, but I'm not sure as I usually fly on CO. BTW, Are you on Flyert
45 Post contains images Tsully : I agree with Akelley728. Teahan, SJC>SFO was merely asking us if we knew off the TOP OF OUR HEADS the answer to his question. I think you read more in
46 Teahan : Hey, I have no problem with him asking, what is rather annoying is when he says he has 4 airline offices in front of his high school and is too lazy t
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
EU Cracks Down On Air Fare Ads posted Mon Jul 17 2006 20:07:55 by EHHO
EU Cracks Down On Subsidised Foreign Airlines posted Fri Mar 12 2004 23:59:44 by Singapore_Air
US Cracks Down On Cuba Travel posted Tue Feb 10 2004 02:12:53 by Akjetblue
What Happened To Delta Flight 3839 On 11/21/06 posted Fri Nov 24 2006 05:49:39 by Freakfor747
How Will Delta List TTN On Tix? posted Fri Sep 15 2006 02:29:57 by JerseyGuy
Does Cutting Down On Mainline Cut Down Expenses? posted Sat Sep 2 2006 03:10:22 by Boston92
Delta Booked Me On An Iberia Air Flight! posted Thu Jul 6 2006 20:26:24 by Jumbojet
QF Clamps Down On Luggage posted Sun Apr 16 2006 02:04:39 by Simpilicity
Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage posted Fri Apr 14 2006 00:15:20 by Singapore_Air
Delta-Northwest Merger On Mineta's Wish List posted Sat Mar 11 2006 07:46:29 by LAXDESI
JNB Cracks Down On Carry On posted Thu Jan 21 2010 06:59:52 by Andz
EU Cracks Down On Air Fare Ads posted Mon Jul 17 2006 20:07:55 by EHHO
EU Cracks Down On Subsidised Foreign Airlines posted Fri Mar 12 2004 23:59:44 by Singapore_Air
US Cracks Down On Cuba Travel posted Tue Feb 10 2004 02:12:53 by Akjetblue
Are Delta FAs Operating On Pmnw Equipment And V/v? posted Mon Jan 9 2012 20:17:29 by MikeYEG
Delta's Sideways Widget On The Early DC-9-14 & -32 posted Wed Nov 23 2011 15:14:12 by CitationJet
Delta 767-400ER On ATL-SJU Dec 22 posted Fri Dec 10 2010 11:25:45 by 1337Delta764
Delta's 77L Fleet On What Routes? posted Sun Sep 26 2010 15:40:37 by washingtonian
EMA 1 Million Passengers Down On Last Year posted Tue Aug 17 2010 08:21:18 by nema
Delta Ranked Low On Harris Poll posted Sat Apr 17 2010 13:10:42 by DL1011