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Lion Air FA And Crash Axe  
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21660 times:

Recent news have it that Lion Air has failed the audit by CASA, and therefore will not be flying to Australia anytime soon, and that they may have abandoned flying to Australia or Lion Air Australia. Instead I read somewhere in a.net that they're going to fly to Saudi Arabia instead on 747-400s.

But, just over the past few days, a series of pictures have come on on the internet and I received this.



The full sized album can be found here http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk23/febo08/

It appears that the cabin crew decided to take the axe out of its box and play around with it. This seems to have caused a bit of stir in Indonesia as there, the crash axe is normally stowed in the cockpit.

With their chief flight attendant only 23 years old, would such 'immaturity' dictate a foolish decision to put the crash axe on some of their aircraft? And does anyone know the aircraft where this episode was taken?


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44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRicciPettit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21656 times:

So were these pictures taken in-flight with passengers on board? Not that it makes the whole thing any better but they could have been on the ground before anyone boarded.

Quoting Tsentsan (Thread starter):
This seems to have caused a bit of stir in Indonesia as there, the crash axe is normally stowed in the cockpit.

For me the main stirring point would be that FAs are pissing about with the axe, not that in Indonesia the axe is usually in the cockpit and in this case was in the galley. I would have thought that the most important thing would be to just locate it in an easily accessible place that all the crew are aware of. (These crew certainly know the location of their axe!)


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21620 times:



Quoting RicciPettit (Reply 1):
I would have thought that the most important thing would be to just locate it in an easily accessible place that all the crew are aware of. (These crew certainly know the location of their axe!)

There's no need for the fire axe to be anywhere other than the cockpit; having in the crew, where it could be accessible and used to access the cockpit could be very dangerous, from a security point of view.


User currently offlineRicciPettit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21569 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
There's no need for the fire axe to be anywhere other than the cockpit; having in the crew, where it could be accessible and used to access the cockpit could be very dangerous, from a security point of view.

Indeed. Some things just seem so obvious afterwards.


User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21562 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
There's no need for the fire axe to be anywhere other than the cockpit; having in the crew, where it could be accessible and used to access the cockpit could be very dangerous, from a security point of view.

on big planes there is another axe in a secret place in the cabin. If you know where is it... rember that is secret for a good reason.



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21518 times:

I saw the pics a few days ago posted at the local aviation enthusiast site. At least 1 person I know saw the pics as early as 2 months ago. At the Indonesian site it has sparked off various points of debate... the main ones being "why was it uploaded" and "why is the crash axe outside the flight deck?"

I did a trace of it and It appears the photos originally appeared on one of the F/A's facebook given by the filename format, and the photoID sequence number appears to date the upload to around late november and early december. Then someone saved it and put it up in photobucket and then it appeared on an adult forum... before making it onto the Indonesian aviation enthusiast site's forum.

So far it is believed the shots were taken whilst the aircraft was in the air. The door "Slide Armed" tape is put across the window indicating it's armed, and unless someone messed up their SOPs, it means the aircraft is not on the parking stand. There's a lack of external lights on the door window... nightflight?

The crew member may have been grounded since and I was told someone submitted the photos to court in a case of Lion vs a former Lion Pilot (who quit due to concerns on the company's safety), as evidence of "how bad things are at Lion"... much to the surprise of Lion's lawyers, it was accepted as evidence.

Quoting Tsentsan (Thread starter):
With their chief flight attendant only 23 years old, would such 'immaturity' dictate a foolish decision to put the crash axe on some of their aircraft? And does anyone know the aircraft where this episode was taken?

We think it was taken on PK-LG* but am having problems with the date it was uploaded to facebook, as it appears to have been loaded prior to PK-LG*'s delivery to Lion.

The chief F/A, I am told has just reached 23 yrs old, and the cabin instructors are about 22 yrs old on average. These girls haven't even reached 5 years on the job!!!! That's young, even by Indonesian standards!!!!! Immaturity??? No comment! Let the pics speak for itself!

Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 4):
on big planes there is another axe in a secret place in the cabin. If you know where is it... rember that is secret for a good reason.

So playing around with it in the cabin with the box open on a revenue flight or posting photos of playing around with it in the cabin with the axe box/container open, isn't a very wise thing to do is it....

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 21447 times:

Not always.....in fact we don't even carry an axe on our planes.

User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 21311 times:

OK, here's my guess:

1. We can see that they have the doors armed so we can assume these pictures were taken in flight.

2. There seems to be no carts or coffee pots in the galley.

3. If PAX were on board it would have been VERY risky to play around with that kind of equipment in such plain sight.

So, I'm going to venture a hypothesis that they were just having a bit of fun on a ferry-flight. If that's the case, no big deal, but it was pretty dumb to post the pics on the Internet.



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineLHRlocal From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 21281 times:

Very silly, just think if you were a passenger, walked around the corner and were greeted by an axe wielding grinning idiot? Anyway, on another note........... very nice FAs  Wink

User currently offlineLeftWing From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 21270 times:

you can see the pilots hats in the flt deck...where were the pilots when this was going on..

User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 683 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 21243 times:

Looks like they are just messing around before/after passengers got onboard. It looks like they are in the fwd galley right behing the cokpit where the axe is located on the 737. Harmless fun, obviously taken on a cell phone camera. They prob put the red lanyard over the window so the catering truck would not try to enter, therby losing their space to "goof off" in. Airline crews sometimes have weird senses of humor.............it comes with the job. At least one of the stews looks like she knows how to enjoy her layovers!!!!!!(and they are much nicer looking than US flight crews!!!) They probably should've kept these offline........the internet can ruin careers quickly. People need to think before using these new "sharing" sites.


CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineFlyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21209 times:



Quoting LeftWing (Reply 9):
you can see the pilots hats in the flt deck...where were the pilots when this was going on..

my guess would be taking the pictures  Smile

AA ORD


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21127 times:

If I was a potential passenger, I would find this less than amusing. Many people are already nervous about flying.

I certainly would have kept this offline.

We keep being told that FA are professionals.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 21121 times:

The photos in the link appears to show one simulating an oral sex act with the axe. That could cause as much of a stir in conservative Indonesian society as much as any security breach.

The photos made me chuckle. Bagus sekali! Of course if they were taken during a revenue flight they would be totally inappropriate, but if it was during down-time, so what? The Indonesians have a great sense of humour and are lovely people. The most shocking thing to me was that the print on the uniform seemed to be an Asian take on the former 1990's British Airways nana-dress uniform. (Why??? Mengapa???)

The photos reminded me that one of the only Indonesian words to enter the English language appears in the phrase "to run amok". Amok described the hidden violence that can stir within a person and erupt when provoked. Quite a logical reaction after serving the public all day long.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlineL4DashTrash From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21079 times:

I agree with what others said, it was probobly just light hearted cabin crew fun during a ferry flight, i notice the lack of galley service carts ovens etc. the cabin crew is just blowing off steam, and passing the flight, the only issue i have is them playing with an axe the way they are i mean what if the thing hits turbulence than ouch! Also could be on a simulator just a thought, also the one of the F/A in the flightdeck VS the ones with the AXE, the flight deck one was during daylight hours obviously.

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21058 times:



Quoting Tu154m (Reply 10):
It looks like they are in the fwd galley right behing the cokpit where the axe is located on the 737.

Forward galley to the right has a pair of cabin crew jumpseats on the forward wall? That's news to me! Looks like the rear galley...

Here's a 737-9GP(ER) layout... and look for the 2 aft facing jumpseats on the right hand side...

Rear galley me thinks...

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 10):
They prob put the red lanyard over the window so the catering truck would not try to enter, therby losing their space to "goof off" in.

For narrow bodies in Indonesia, unless they're flying an intl flight out of Bali or Jakarta, the catering gets handloaded from the left side of the cabin... that's the way its done here... unless you're Garuda, or a non-Indonesian carrier...  Smile Plus with Lion, the SOP is for the cabin crew to open and close the doors, not ground staff, unless it's the left side doors.

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 13):
The photos in the link appears to show one simulating an oral sex act with the axe. That could cause as much of a stir in conservative Indonesian society as much as any security breach.

I think this was one of the main reasons why it was shown on one of the local adult forums...

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 13):
Of course if they were taken during a revenue flight they would be totally inappropriate, but if it was during down-time, so what?

That is the main question for the moment... it looks like it was taken during flight, BUT, we don't know for sure... But then, they seem to have a habit of leaving the "slide armed" in a lot of cases during boarding... Here's one from a trip report someone made... taken during boarding...


Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 13):
The most shocking thing to me was that the print on the uniform seemed to be an Asian take on the former 1990's British Airways nana-dress uniform. (Why??? Mengapa???)

U're the handful of people I know that noticed that!



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21038 times:

I think that the stewardesses involved should be sacked. What they did is neither funny nor safe. What would have happened if there was sudden turbulence? Someone could have been seriously injured.

Besides, the stewardesses are there to look after the passengers and ensure their safety, not arse around with axes.


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21023 times:



Quoting L4DashTrash (Reply 14):
i notice the lack of galley service carts ovens etc.

The airline serves... water... No carts on this airline is normal... When they carry food, they rarely fill 1/2 the galley cart spaces... unless it's an intl flight...

Quoting L4DashTrash (Reply 14):
Also could be on a simulator just a thought, also the one of the F/A in the flightdeck VS the ones with the AXE, the flight deck one was during daylight hours obviously.

Simulator? I wish...
The stories I hear from other airline crew working for ex-Lion cabin crew... well, wouldn't surprise me to have had a passenger taking those photos! LOL... (and don't be surprised if you notice that they use the rear lav to hide pax without boarding passes while boarding, and open the lav doors and say to the person "row 13E, go for it" or "Sorry, all full, buzz off" and send the person off the plane)...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 21007 times:

A lot of stupid things go on during non revenue flights or when there are no passengers around. The most obvious example is the crash of the NW CRJ a few years back on a ferry flight.

Ridding down the aisle on takeoff, not arming doors, playing around with safety equipment, etc all happens on ferry flights. Yes it is against the rules and it is a DUMBASS move to post pictures of fooling around on the internet, but it happens everywhere.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 20907 times:

Was this a ferry flight? With FAs (very cute ones, by the way  Wink ) it seemed like might've been a regular flight. Very unprofessional, IMHO.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 20842 times:

I just thought of this from another aspect. Would you trust one of these to successfully evacuate you during a crash? If they are so stupid play around with dangerous safety equipment, it shows a complete disregard for safety and a level of immaturity that I find worrying in a person who is supposed to be professional and responsible for the safety of others. If there was a medical emergency on board, would they have the maturity and intelligence to take the best course of action and potentially save a life? I'm sceptical.

I know a lot of crew who do silly things on board as a joke or for a laugh. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes their job more enjoyable and is often entertaining to passengers. However, playing with an axe isn't harmless fun, it's dangerous.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 19):
very cute ones

I've found that Lion Air seem to have the cutest stewardesses of all of the Indonesian airlines. They always look immaculate.


User currently offlineL4DashTrash From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 20778 times:



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 17):
Simulator? I wish...
The stories I hear from other airline crew working for ex-Lion cabin crew... well, wouldn't surprise me to have had a passenger taking those photos! LOL... (and don't be surprised if you notice that they use the rear lav to hide pax without boarding passes while boarding, and open the lav doors and say to the person "row 13E, go for it" or "Sorry, all full, buzz off" and send the person off the plane)...

Wow I must have just gotten too used to things here in the states in this case if this is true wow is all i can say as i sigh and shake my head


User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20357 times:

Am i the only one who finds that those are a few of the most good looking women i have ever seen.

Really stunning.



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 20333 times:

I'm an FA, I'm 24 and i started this work when i was 22. i did a lot of ferry flight and i never feel the need to play with safety items during these trip. The fact these girls are off duty or non working is NOT an excuse to use safety equipment to play or to entertain the colleagues during the flight. Read a book, eat, speak with the pilots, sleep, take a look around or whatever you want. But please not that. This mean that the airline should focus more on the brain than on the boobs.

Just another word: on a 737 the AXE is in a secure place in the flight deck. Why the pilot allowed the 3 FA to play with this equipment?

BB



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 20134 times:

This is like when pictures surfaced of the crews of AR and of LH having some harmless fun ... we don't know the entire story ... so why crucify these poor girls?

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
25 Cartenz : I wonder if Lior Air management realizes that pictures of their FAs playing around with safety equipment are now readily accessible anywhere in the wo
26 FlyboyNK : What a bunch of BS, nothing wrong with the pics as long as it wasn't done on a revenue flight due to security and safety reasons (axe, cockpit door) w
27 Jamake1 : I axed you to please put your tray table and seatback upright.
28 Post contains links and images Brons2 : I missed that the first time, thanks for pointing it out! Oh no, you didn't!! lmao! On a serious note, I think this whole Internet oversharing thing
29 DL_Mech : It looks as if the axe is installed on Lionair in the cabin in the compartment shown in picture four (door hanging open).
30 FLY2HMO : I doubt they were stupid enough to actually do that in flight, with pax, but then you never know... And since nobody seems brave enough to say it: I'd
31 LeftWing : ......considering its Lion crew...not surprized...oral sex with an axe !....LMAO ....
32 Beagleboys : new ideas for the next Ryanair calendar....
33 LH648 : I want to try Lion Air
34 Beagleboys : i wanna try lion air FA! but not on a plane...
35 DingDong : Well, can't speak as to your employer, but airlines are generally image conscious and anything that makes it out in the public eye that makes them lo
36 Cartenz : I second you 'DingDong'. Lion Air is working hard to increase revenue and to make profits, but safety still comes first. These photos might not mean a
37 Mandala499 : Yes, let's raise their safety awareness, by suing pilots who quit after their safety concerns were left ignored... by "asking" crew to exceed their a
38 GFFgold : I wish I shared your optimism but I fear that Lion has not been working hard enough to maintain staff morale - very much the reverse - and they previ
39 BALHRWWCC : It's a cabin trainer people. The control panel above the door is for the trainer to activate the evac alarm and if needs be to set the door to jam to
40 Malaysia : Yeah and now I can see where the AXE is stored, the box is open and shows you where you can find it.
41 BabyblueBHX : Hi i was a Chief F/A at the age of 21 and after just 2 years on the job for the airline I work for, Whilst I can not excuse what happened in the pict
42 Mandala499 : There is a difference in being a young f/a working in a company with a good training program and high flight standards for the cabin crew plus the su
43 Mandala499 : Unfortunately, according to the crew involved, it was taken on an aircraft, and the airline has no cabin trainer... (not fo 737 at least). Dang! I me
44 Mandala499 : Update: From 2 sources within Lion. No it does not have a cabin trainer simulator... not for the 737 anyways. From 1 source within Lion (unverifiable)
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