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JFK Runway Resurfacing - 13R/31L  
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21633 posts, RR: 55
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

The board of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which meets later today, is expected to approve a $300 million plan to replace the longest runway at Kennedy International Airport. The plan would require shutting Runway 13R-31L for about four months, which will lead to delays at the airport. Airlines will have to adjust their schedules and use the airport’s three remaining runways.

The work would start in June 2009. Some extra delays are inevitable, but I could see things not being too bad - the winds generally aren't very strong over the summer, so they could use the 22s or 4s to have at least two runways operative, and then use 31R for departures (from an intersection) if they need the extra capacity (though that's going to affect taxi routes). They can still use the land 13L/22L configuration, except that they'd have to depart off of 22R instead of 13R (again from an intersection).

Should be interesting times this summer.

-Mir


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4677 times:



Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
The work would start in June 2009.

Are they $&^^%ing insane? in the SUMMER TIME?????? aka the busiest time???

Why not wait till September then knock it out before the holidays. ATL REBUILT an entire runway in 60-90 days, this is just a resurfacing.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

I wonder why they can't do it overnight as in FRA.

One of the parallel runways was rebuilt section per section over a few months in night shifts only and was fully operational in the day.

Just imagine FRA with only one runway...


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21633 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Sorry, forgot the source:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ect-at-kennedy-to-cause-delays/?hp

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3305 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
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Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
and then use 31R for departures (from an intersection)

31R is quite short, and they never take off from it, as far as I know, due to noise restrictions (which is also why they have that crazy approach to it to avoid residential areas).

Why on earth would they start this in the summer time!?? It's JFK's busiest time of year, and even with 31L operating the trans-Atlantic rush hour can make things unbearable. I've spent as long as two hours in the ground waiting to takeoff and I'm sure others have experienced far longer. All I know is I'm happy I'm using EWR this summer instead, if this will be going on.

TIS



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User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21633 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4538 times:



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 4):
31R is quite short, and they never take off from it, as far as I know, due to noise restrictions (which is also why they have that crazy approach to it to avoid residential areas).

31R is plenty long enough for most flights out of JFK. It would certainly be long enough for most of the westbound flights that would use it in such a configuration. The reason they never take off from it is because the departures are required to turn left in order to avoid conflicts with LGA departures, which puts them in conflict with 31L departures. But with 31L closed, that isn't a problem.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2888 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4336 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
31R is plenty long enough for most flights out of JFK. It would certainly be long enough for most of the westbound flights that would use it in such a configuration. The reason they never take off from it is because the departures are required to turn left in order to avoid conflicts with LGA departures, which puts them in conflict with 31L departures. But with 31L closed, that isn't a problem.

Yup, I have seen 31R used for departures when we were getting snow storms and 31L needed to be closed for snow removal, or other typical work was getting performed on 31L. Also, when DL had their little Dash 8 influx here, they were being routed to 31R departures with a (get this) RIGHT turnout. That was always interesting to watch.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
The work would start in June 2009.

Are they $&^^%ing insane? in the SUMMER TIME?????? aka the busiest time???

Not only is it a bad time for JFK just because of the time of the year, but that is also the time of the year that the 13's are in use the most. You typically see a very heavy 13L and 13R and 22L landing configuration with a 13R (with an occasional 13L) departure configuration during that time of the year because of the way the winds come in off the water. I am guessing they are going to switch it up to using the 22's as the primary landing and departing runways with some arrivals coming in on 13L. Any way you slice it, taking out 13R/31L during that time of the year is going to hurt.

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21633 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4297 times:



Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 6):
Also, when DL had their little Dash 8 influx here, they were being routed to 31R departures with a (get this) RIGHT turnout. That was always interesting to watch.

The right turnout is a published procedure, but it's not available to jet aircraft. DL's props used it frequently when they were around, but since they've left you very rarely see 31R used for departures.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 6):
Not only is it a bad time for JFK just because of the time of the year, but that is also the time of the year that the 13's are in use the most. You typically see a very heavy 13L and 13R and 22L landing configuration with a 13R (with an occasional 13L) departure configuration during that time of the year because of the way the winds come in off the water. I am guessing they are going to switch it up to using the 22's as the primary landing and departing runways with some arrivals coming in on 13L.

It won't be hard to use a configuration where aircraft land on 13L and 22L and depart on 22R. The only limitations are that the 22R departures will have to be from an intersection (probably F), and 13L arrivals won't be able to use 22R as a turnoff.

Summer is better weather-wise because you don't get the strong northwesterly winds that force the airport onto a 31-only operation as much as in the winter (that would be a real killer if you only had 31R to work with). That, and you don't have the issues of snow.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineUnattendedBag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4166 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
ATL REBUILT an entire runway in 60-90 days, this is just a resurfacing.

where does it say that JFK is just "resurfacing" the runway? According to the linked story, this is a full out demolition of the old and rebuild plus widen the new runway for larger traffic.

Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 2):
I wonder why they can't do it overnight as in FRA.

I saw that documentary about Frankfurt, that is an asphalt runway in which they close it every night for 6-8 hours to "redo" 30 meters or so (I can't remember how much they do a night). This is a new Concrete runway at JFK.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Are they $&^^%ing insane? in the SUMMER TIME??????



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 4):
Why on earth would they start this in the summer time!??



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Summer is better weather-wise because you don't get the strong northwesterly winds that force the airport onto a 31-only operation as much as in the winter

because...

wait for it...

You need warm weather for concrete to cure in a reasonable amount of time. The colder the temperature, the longer it takes for concrete to cure and the longer the runway has to remain closed. That is why most ALL concrete construction at airports occurs in the hot ass heat of summer.



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Nice, I get a first hand look on how you build a runway.  Smile I'm always going to have one hell of a summer then, like summers at JFK aren't bad enough. Well, if it needs to be done, then it needs to be done. Can't wait for summer!!!!!!


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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