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New Haven, CT In Danger Of Closing  
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1105 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7830 times:

According the article, budget cuts here in CT have put HVN in danger of closing.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/news_wtnh_newhaven_tweed_200902191227

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Definitely sad to see, but I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg. I have a feeling we will see quite a few airports that don't even have scheduled commercial service (GA and Corporate traffic only airports) come close to going under in the near future as well. Corporate travel is on a decline as companies aren't as willing to charter a G-IV, and GA folks have less in their wallet as well, so GA traffic is declining too.  cry 


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7834 times:

AOPA will most likely step in and delay it as long as possible. It would most likely would delay things until get better. Also, $30M would be a lot to pay back.

[Edited 2009-02-19 17:21:12]

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7606 times:

and once the city finds out that they have to pay the FAA back for any money received in the past 20 years, they will reconsider  Wink

Im sure the letter from the FAA reminding them of that clause is already on the mail!



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSASD209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7603 times:

Anybody know what kind of loads those Philly flights are getting? I was at HVN last sunday and the place looked deserted, and that 1 airbridge looked out of place!

User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7593 times:

Obviously, endowments are down, but perhaps Yale could spare a bit of its endowment to keep HVN in business?

How long has US been alone at HVN?



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4452 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7585 times:

There was a time (80s I believe) when UA used to fly 737s out of HVN. Hopefully things will turn around and scheduled commercial service will be continued.

User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7546 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
Obviously, endowments are down, but perhaps Yale could spare a bit of its endowment to keep HVN in business?

Why purpose would that serve them?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7544 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
How long has US been alone at HVN?

My guess, since that sorry excuse for Pan Am pulled out.


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When was that? Obviously less than two years ago... but I can't say I paid attention.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineN521NA From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7497 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
Obviously, endowments are down, but perhaps Yale could spare a bit of its endowment to keep HVN in business?

How long has US been alone at HVN?

Doubt Yale has any bit to spare after a large drop in its endowment during the economic crisis. And Yalies usually use BDL or NYC area airports as their primary airports since US Airways usually charges much higher fares for the convenience of flying into HVN.

I just started flight lessons at HVN so I hope this doesn't happen.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7477 times:



Quoting TransIsland (Reply 8):
My guess, since that sorry excuse for Pan Am pulled out.

US has been there for a LONG time. 20 years id say.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineBeertrucker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7467 times:

at one time it was US CO UA all there at the same time. The only jet flights have been AW BAE146 to ORD UA 737-300 to ORD and CA CJR-200 to CVG. I still think if there was a flight to ATL it would have worked better then CVG. I grew up there and used to ride my bike all the way there just to watch planes and then when I got my car I started to drive it all the time and watch the eve bank. where there was like 5 planes in a 2 hour time. Save HVN I will fly there to see my parents if there was a better connection then PHL.


Fly HI
User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 814 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7438 times:
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I flew out of HVN last summer, what a quaint airport. I did the HVN-PHL flight to connect down to Miami (I think that's where I was going).

Sad to see hear the service and airport may be gone.

John


User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7347 times:



Quoting SASD209 (Reply 4):
Anybody know what kind of loads those Philly flights are getting? I was at HVN last sunday and the place looked deserted, and that 1 airbridge looked out of place!

For Friday they are about 75% outbound and around 90% inbound, five flights each way.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7316 times:



Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 11):
The only jet flights have been AW BAE146 to ORD UA 737-300 to ORD and CA CJR-200 to CVG.

Actually, I can add to that ... back circa 1970 and into the early 70s, EA used to do 727s and DC9s into HVN. They were MIA and ATL flights mostly that stopped in various places like DCA or BWI. A few of the flights even repositioned from/to JFK. Must have been to fly a 727 from JFK-HVN!

Also, AL flew DC9s and BAC1-11s there on a simple BOS-HVN-DCA routing.

And Beertrucker, I have to agree with you -- if DL had done an ATL route from HVN, it would have fared better. I worked at HVN for US for 7+ yrs in the 90s (along with some of the other commuter carriers there back in the 80s) .. and I can tell you that the majority of travel from HVN was soouth, especially to Florida. CVG was just an oddball routing for anyone going south. Too bad .. things could be so different at HVN.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6968 times:



Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 11):
at one time it was US CO UA all there at the same time. The only jet flights have been AW BAE146 to ORD UA 737-300 to ORD and CA CJR-200 to CVG. I still think if there was a flight to ATL it would have worked better then CVG. I grew up there and used to ride my bike all the way there just to watch planes and then when I got my car I started to drive it all the time and watch the eve bank. where there was like 5 planes in a 2 hour time. Save HVN I will fly there to see my parents if there was a better connection then PHL.

NW also flew CRJ-200s to DTW a few years ago. It didn't last very long.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6860 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 15):
NW also flew CRJ-200s to DTW a few years ago. It didn't last very long.

No, they didn't. The service was talked about as a possibility, but it never materialized. This was around 2002, I believe. OH started service to CVG about a year later.


User currently offlineBeertrucker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6610 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 14):
Actually, I can add to that ... back circa 1970 and into the early 70s, EA used to do 727s and DC9s into HVN. They were MIA and ATL flights mostly that stopped in various places like DCA or BWI. A few of the flights even repositioned from/to JFK. Must have been to fly a 727 from JFK-HVN!

Ok I will say I never knew that cause well I was not born till late 73 so I never knew that. That is nice to know. I don't think pilgrim ever brought the F28-4000 to HVN either. If they did I never saw it or knew it.



Fly HI
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6444 times:



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 10):

US has been there for a LONG time. 20 years id say.

Yes, but the question was how long US has been ALONE @ HVN.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineJayspilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5968 times:

they have been alone since boston maine failed about 2 yrs ago... before that they had OH to CVG for about 2 yrs until they left... before that they had COex to EWR and UA/ZW to ORD. Before that, there were several others but this covers teh past 10-12 yrs.

User currently offlineSpudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

"Bankruptcy would ground every plane."

What do they mean by that? How would that happen if the planes are privately owned?


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1657 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

As a Connecticut taxpayer, I can't say I'd be all that upset if HVN closed. I used it once for a passenger flight and had a ton of difficulty getting my car out of the parking lot when I returned as they didn't take credit cards and the last ATM had been pulled out. I gave the lot attendant an IOU and even after I paid my bill with a check through the mail they came after me for the parking bill. Who needs the hassle...

This was a number of years ago, and hopefully the situation has changed with parking - at the very least I know an ATM has been re-installed. As a photographer, though, it's amazing to me on my HVN visits how little traffic there is. It's well-known how few scheduled airline flights there are, but even GA traffic there is a trickle. I just don't think that airport is a good return on the investment.


User currently offlineUs330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4930 times:



Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 5):
Obviously, endowments are down, but perhaps Yale could spare a bit of its endowment to keep HVN in business?

Yale's endowment is down, but it actually isn't doing that badly relative to other universities--we can thank Swensen for that.

As others have commented, though, what incentive is there for Yale to keep HVN in business? Bradley is only an hour's drive away, and JFK and LGA are two and a half hours away. Very few students, including myself, ever used HVN--only those that had to make a connection, and even then, some that had to make connections still went via Bradley or NYC because prices were usually cheaper.

You have to realize that the student population (including grad), numbers only around 11,000--which usually only needs to fly around five dates. Professors and other faculty generally don't travel that much, but if they do, they are probably on the cheapest airfare possible to maximize use of their departmental grants and the like.

Yale invests quite a bit into New Haven, but in a time when funds are limited, it makes no sense to support an airport when the town, whose population numbers around 250,000, isn't willing to support it--and by support it, I mean actually use it and increase its passenger numbers. Yale's money that is spent on New Haven related support can best be spent elsewhere.


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 17):
Ok I will say I never knew that cause well I was not born till late 73 so I never knew that. That is nice to know. I don't think pilgrim ever brought the F28-4000 to HVN either. If they did I never saw it or knew it.

Wow -- good catch on that one, Beertrucker.

Actually for a very short time in the early 80s (and I worked for Pilgrim at the time, but at BDR), Pilgrim -on Sundays only- did a BDL-HVN-JFK route to position the a/c frm weekend maintenance at BDL to JFK for the evening YOW flight. Thats the only day HVN saw the F28 and i guess it was just a "why-not pick a few pax up in HVN?" kinda thing.

I completely forgot about that little tidbit until u said it!

[Edited 2009-02-21 09:25:18]

User currently offlineFlypig687 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

I flew out of HVN both GA and commercially over the summer. The commercial experience was nice, the terminal is small and not much to it. The GA side seems to not have that many planes especially compared to BDR which is only 20mi away by car and much less by plane. Although it still would be sad to see any airport go, anywhere.

I recently flew there to do some practice and noticed they got rid of the threshold and added approach lighting to 20, when did this happen? It had to of happened sometime between Aug 08 and now. Where did the money for it come from?


25 Access-Air : Well if its that bad at HVN, perhaps the mayor of New Haven will hire the Bull Dozers come in in the wee hours of the morning and tear up the runways,
26 TDubJFK : Gary, at this point it wouldn't surprise me. The fact that the bulk of the airport is located in the town of East Haven has created a huge amount of
27 AvConsultant : I don't mean to sound bleak, things are very bad. I doubt they will turn around soon enough to help New Haven. I don't think New Haven will be the on
28 Micstatic : Yet if I read it correct, wouldn't they have to spend less to keep it open then they would have to pay the FAA if they close it?
29 Beertrucker : As I said I think if you they could come after DL again and ask for a flights to ATL. I tihink they could change things around. I mean there used to b
30 N757st : The problem with ATL is the runway. HVN's 5750 is not enough to get a fully loaded 50 seater to ATL, and would cause massive weight restrictions with
31 TransIsland : I don't know the prices for the non-stops from HVN, but about two years ago, I needed to go to Connecticut, somewhere right in the middle between HPN
32 JohnJ : Actually, HVN's 2/20 is 5600'. They're not far off from having enough length for some serious mainline flying, though - for example, SNA's main runwa
33 JBo : But what kind of weight restrictions, if any, are on those DL and CO flights out of SNA? A 747 could take off in 5700 feet if it was loaded light eno
34 USPIT10L : The trouble with CR7s and E170s, especially regarding DL, is that the loads have to make it worthwhile. DL will not fly in a CR7 if the plane isn't f
35 ROSWELL41 : DL Connection to ATL or UA Express to ORD would make the most sense from HVN in my mind. Another question: should HVN close, would US Airways shift th
36 AvConsultant : Depends, if the city can sell the property for a commercial development and take in lucrative tax revenue As we know, CT is quite successful in tax r
37 N5014K : I used to fly from BWI in and out of HVN 6-7 times a year in the late 80's-early 90's. This is only one person's story, but in my experience it was al
38 Richierich : It's a sad shame and perhaps the closing is inevitable. It has already be proven that the airport will not be allowed to grow, thus thwarting any rea
39 TDubJFK : As both a life-long area resident and former airline employee both at HVN and BDR over the years, this is a bit surreal. If anything, I always though
40 JohnJ : Perhaps. But there are jet out there that could be used at HVN besides the CRJ. The Embraer 135 is listed as supporting a 400-NM range with a 4364-fo
41 Milesrich : AL (US) used to operate CV-580's out of HVN; they even cracked one up there in the late 60's-early 70's. EA, prior to the DC-9's and 727's, operated L
42 Us330 : Markets change and consumer behavior changes. Using your logic, Alaska Airlines should be running several 737s a day to Skagway because lots of peopl
43 Post contains links CatIII : The City should just sell the airport and privatize it. There's enough of a business case to be made to do so, and my undersatnding is that BDR is in
44 Richierich : Good question - I don't remember. I do know I was there to see the first DL CRJ arrive from CVG - the flights ended but a few months later. Don't get
45 Micstatic : If they could just get that darn runway expanded, the airport could have a bright future. I could certainly see a LCC being able to make it work.
46 Afitch7881 : New Haven County has 850,000 people, along with Fairfield County which has 900,000 people.
47 Cadet57 : Not being a CT resident, but doesnt Fairfield=$$$?
48 Stlgph : so "they say" but at certain points of Fairfield County, it's just easier to drive down to New York for more nonstop options. or if you're really pri
49 Richierich : Yes, Fairfield County is usually one of the wealthiest counties in the nation. Take away the largest city, Bridgeport, and it would be even 'wealthie
50 JohnJ : I have three upcoming trips in the next 6-8 weeks, one each to BHM, SLC and LHR. I live between Hartford and New Haven, about 25 minutes from HVN vs.
51 AvConsultant : The E-135, for the most part, have been or are being removed from service. A lot of the airlines union contracts cap the number of 70's where CA does
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