FFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13072 times:
Read this past week that Delta is STILL pondering and supposedly VERY close to sealing a deal to add 20 plus MD-90's to the fleet. This has been talked about for years now but nothing has ever been confirmed. My question is IF they do complete this deal with Boeing Aircraft Leasing for 3 MD-90s's and the others from a Chinese carrier - will they be replacing MD 88's? or will they pull out RJ's and replace with these or what? Anyone with any "inside" information?
There is more speculation found on this link regarding acquistion of MD 90's
1 STT757: This rumor has been popping up for over a year, with current economic conditions leading to a substantial drop in air travel and the integration of th
2 CompensateMe: It makes sense for DL to continue to ponder acquiring used MD-90, as acquisition costs would be relatively low whereas operating costs would be simila
3 CompensateMe: The MD-88 is too big to be a direct DC-9 replacement. And as NW is integrated into DL, a re-fleeting will occur. Projected capacity needs will dictat
4 Evan767: DL wants these MD-90's, I believe, to be based out of SLC. Using these MD-90's would take away most 738's from SLC that fly short-medium haul routes.
5 C5LOAD: They should bring back the MD-11 'cause it looked good and I liked flying on them.
6 Atlwest1: Hehehe yeah I always thought it looked majestic in the DL livery. To bad the plane couldn't have had a tad more legs to it or it might still be there
7 C5LOAD: It could do soooo many of the trans-atlantic routes that DL wants now that they are expanding it, as well as Asia-US routes and InterAsia routes as w
8 Azjubilee: Jeez... here's a thought... why don't they just use what they just got from NWA? One of the major reasons in merging was for the NWA fleet to compleme
9 C767P: I think it was shortly after Delta officially turned down US Airways Anderson had said the MD-90 has a lower operating cost compared to the 738 for D
10 Cadet57: Why would you want to replace the 73H? It's brand new to the fleet and iirc was purchased for thinner trans-con routes as well as SLC routes (correct
11 DELTA7478: I also think they need to get more 737-700's and 800 to replace the old MD-88's and the 737-900ER to start replacing the older 757-200's. I think the
12 PanAm330: I disagree with yours. You'd have them pass up perfectly good, modern and most of all cheap aircraft to add yet another fleet type? That makes no sen
13 STT757: Replace on trans-con routes, not replace from the fleet. The 737-900 offers a lower CASM than the 737-800s which helps especially in markets where th
14 Seemyseems: Will the MD's still be economically sound? Personally I would go for a more modern option, maybe more B737NG's?
15 BMI727: No. The 73W should only be used where the performance is needed. As such it will remain a relatively small subfleet. Other routes should use the 73H
16 TISTPAA727: Isn't that just because it has more seats? If you can't fill up the seats it won't make sense to move up to the 739. Thinking long-term, you are prob
17 1337Delta764: I actually think the 739ER would be a good aircraft to use on ABQ-ATL in the summer. After all, DL has no trouble filling 757s on the route in the su
18 BMI727: Ordering 739ERs makes sense for most of the American legacy carriers as 757s are transitioned to trans-Atlantic flying.
19 TISTPAA727: Good point. For some reason (must be tired) was thinking the 739s would be to upgrade some MD-88 and 738 routes. As a 752 replacement, yes, that would
20 CompensateMe: The MD-90 is of the same generation as the A320 and B737NG families. I explained the advantages in my earlier replies. Why would DL want to acquire B
21 CompensateMe: There's roughly 40 B757 within DL's fleet that will ever fly across the Atlantic. If DL needed additional domestic lift in the sub-200 passenger-mark
22 DELTA7478: I actually think the 739ER would be a good aircraft to use on ABQ-ATL in the summer. After all, DL has no trouble filling 757s on the route in the su
23 BMI727: I'm not an insider but when did this happen? The last movement in DL's 757 fleet (other than the NW acquisition) was that they got and refurbished th
24 WorldTraveler: The A320 and MD90 have almost identical fuel burn stats both per aircraft and per seat. The 738 is slightly higher but its missions are longer and th
25 Papatango: How about some used 777;s, the SQ birds come to mind?
26 CompensateMe: NW is currently operating 45 B752. Last year, 10 were WFU; they were sold last month. They will not return to NW/DL. -- 22 -5500 series (delivered 19
27 Avconsultant: I think people are failing to realize we are in a major economic crisis driven by a failure of the credit market. DL nor any other airline can obtain
28 STT757: Many of those 757s are going to reach 30 years of service in the not too distant future, almost 30 years of back and forth flying between ATL and Flo
29 Enilria: IMHO Delta is in the worst position in the current economic crisis. They have put all (OK, half) their eggs in the international basket and it is look
30 CompensateMe: I posted the age breakdown above; outside three aircraft, the oldest frames won't be 30 for at least six years. Undoubtedly we'll see a number of 757
31 CompensateMe: I don't know how you came up with that (or many other of your) conclusion, but NW's widebody fleet is only 2/3 the size it was pre-SARS and all of DL
32 DeltaL1011man: pull more RJ out (CR2s) and put more 90s in the SLC hub no. The M90s would be used to replace 738s on short hauls out of SLC (the 738s would move to
33 SLCUT2777: I think if there is an aircraft that is slated for the soonest extinction in the DL fleet it will be the NW DC-9. If DL doesn't expand the MD-90 flee
34 DeltaL1011man: As i read into it its said 3 are coming in march My question is where did BCC get 3 M90s from? not sure I'd say long before any AB but if Delta doesn'
35 UpstateDave: How come everyone is calling for more 737NGs? There are more A320 family in the combined fleet than 737s
36 BMI727: That isn't nearly the only consideration. Plus, with a fleet of over 30 or so, fleet commonality isn't as important. Then there is DL's gentlemen's a
37 SLCUT2777: That would be very nice. If they were to go after more 737s, I'd say they'll go more after the smaller 700 rather than the larger trans-con 800. I do
38 BMI727: I would say just the opposite. DL would want the improved economics that come with the strectched -800. The -700s are best used on routes that requir
39 MCOAviationFan: This was exactly the reason DL gave for purchasing the -700, namely using the fleet to airports where the -800 had performance issues and the 757 was
FFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7760 times:
Some updated information on pilot forum site regarding MD 90's ...
If Delta can get these birds at a "steal" - why not add 'em to their exisiting 16 in the fleet.
"I heard that the Chinese MD90's are very close to being a done deal. I was told 19 airplanes.
I also heard that some DC9's will be parked if the 90's deal goes through for sure."
Does anyone know if there will be growth overall or a wash?
41 1337Delta764: I wonder, if DL buys the MD-90s from China Southern or China Eastern, will DL add IFE to them? Unlike DL's MD-90s, the China Southern/Eastern MD-90s a
42 CompensateMe: And you don't think that DL, now the world's largest airline with the world's third largest Airbus fleet, couldn't get as good of a deal -- if not be
43 Mir: The only real DC-9 replacement right now is the CRJ1000 and E190/5. You could make an argument for the MD-88 replacing the DC-9-50s, though, and that
44 Cubsrule: DL would be foolish to base any projections on sub-$60 oil, though. It's not going to stay there forever. Could you maybe cite some numbers? The 739
45 Web: Why is this? I would think the -30s would be more attractive since they fill the gap between the CR9/E75 and the A319. What makes -50s so desirable?
46 3holeflyer: As demand goes up & down, is there any chance that DL will assign DC-9's routes that are not the NW regulars routes? To replace a 319 on a weak route
47 Gsosbee: Interesting discussion on the DC-9's and on a like for like basis the -9 cannot match a newer airplane. However, the -9's are paid for. That is a BIG
48 Mir: But it's the only plus. Right now, with fuel prices where they are, the DC-9s are fine. But should fuel go up again like it did over the summer, the
49 DeltaL1011man: Because Delta can get a fleet of 60 738s by 2015. nope it'll be more 800s if they replace the 90s they will go for the a/c around the smae size. more
50 Cubsrule: Fuel price volatility is exactly why it's nice to have the -9s around, though. Because they're owned, they're an excellent source of variable capacit
51 CompensateMe: The projections were based upon $75. Sorry, but it'd be foolish to build a business model upon any higher amount. The network carrier concept that's
52 Cubsrule: You have to build a business model based on some number. That's why most airlines pay people a lot of money to attempt to forecast oil prices. And yo
53 CompensateMe: Are you arguing with yourself? DL built its forecasts on $75. I'm amused; I work in the industry and know first hand the effects of high oil prices -
54 WESTERN737800: I dont think DL will get too many new 737s or 319/320s in the near future. If they can get the M90s at a decent price they should do it. They could pu
55 AvConsultant: I remember when the MD-90 rumor popped up a year or so ago. One of the rumor to go along with this was they would be based in CVG. Any thoughts where
56 DeltaL1011man: t6hat is due to them opening a DALPA in CVG(or did or was going to) CRJ routes in SLC. One would think if they want to go to SLC they would.
57 MCOAviationFan: The -50 offers a better CASM than the -30 or -40 mainly due to its larger capacity. I agree. The questions are at what yield could you fill the airpl
58 DeltaL1011man: more like 12 months. IIRC thats when DL's options start to pick up again. DL can get 14 737NGs next year. They already have 2 ordered as 800s but the
59 Seemyseems: Does NW have some outstanding A330 orders? If DL want to expand their long haul netowork, they could order more B777's or maybe some B777-300's. But N
60 MCOAviationFan: Stay tuned. You may hear something from DL soon.
61 Cubsrule: Does DL need more 773/744 sized aircraft? Honest question... I don't know that I have a good answer.
62 MCOAviationFan: DL is looking at their WB fleet for future Asian expansion (economic recovery) and fleet replacement (747-400).
63 Cubsrule: Are they going to wait until the pilot fences come down? It seems like getting 773s would make more sense once they don't have to have a DL 777 pilot
64 MCOAviationFan: The pilot fences do not come down until 5 years after SOC is granted so the clock has not begun yet. We'll see what DL does with WB orders soon.
65 Cubsrule: OTOH, there's some lead time between the time at which a decision is made and the time when the aircraft start arriving on property. We're probably l
67 Hjulicher: Has anyone realized that compensateme has stopped contributing? I think given excess capacity in the market currently, it's very unrealistic for any a
68 Cubsrule: I alluded to this previously, but a lot of the answer to that question depends on the stage length we're talking about; the operating cost gap is muc
69 DeltaL1011man: The point of getting more 90s is to cut more CRJ routes out of SLC. they are not looking at them to expand but look to bring more mainline into SLC w
70 Cubsrule: Why? It seems to have worked well to this point. If it didn't, the first 16 738s on property could have replaced the M90s. For whatever reason, DL is
71 DeltaL1011man: Becuase it is costing them to much. but are 763ERs
72 Cubsrule: Why are the two different? The M90 is basically an M88 with different engines. The -3P6s are 763ERs with different engines (though, IIRC, the differe
73 MD-90: Perhaps this is due to the in-house capabilities of Delta TechOps.
74 Alitalia744: Movement on fleet will come within the next few months of the t's and i's get crossed and dotted correctly. It will be a win-win-win for three party's
75 Cubsrule: I think that's at least part of it, though OTOH we've seen another operator with a decent MRO (AA) move toward a much more streamlined fleet over the
76 BMI727: Which wasn't necessarily a good idea. In my opinion, AA made a big mistake in dumping the Reno Air MD-90s and TWA 717s while also dumpimg F100s. This
77 Okie73: just to be clear, there are only fences on the 777 and 747. No fences for any other equipment (except the 787 which isn't here yet and won't be for a
78 Cubsrule: I agree that DL has taken the wiser path, which is why I can't see them disposing of the M90s any time soon.
79 CokePopper: win for Boeing,GE and Embraer? Loss for Airbus? I need help here
81 United1: It is a little hard to read between the lines when there is only one line I thought there was a comment on an investor call some time ago that outsid
82 Sectflyer: I will not fly on a RJ from PVD to ATL period. BDL is about an extra 15 minutes for me to drive and I do it to avoid the iron maiden! Bring back mainl
83 DELTA7478: Are they going to wait until the pilot fences come down? It seems like getting 773s would make more sense once they don't have to have a DL 777 pilot
84 Jetlanta: I wouldn't count on it. But I trust him.
85 VictorKilo: We've already seen a bit of that - there's now a NW 319 on LAX-TPA. I've always thought that the M90 would make a lot of sense at MSP, given its cent
86 FFlyerWorld: It's obvious from looking at a few schedule changes upcoming in April - that Delta is wasting NO time in moving aircraft around to best suite their op
87 Planefxr: There are more dissimilarities than just engines.
88 DeltaL1011man: no large ordered but DL will take 8 77Ls 3 73Gs 2 73H at least. Nice idea hope true I'm sure of these two. look for atleast 2 more 777s ordered. 2010
89 Pbiflyer: How is this for interesting. Look at PBI - BDL in May. Normally one DL M88 flight per day, but in May there is a flight added in the evening using NW
91 Cubsrule: ...and the 763-3P6ERs and the rest of the fleet also have more dissimilarities than just engines.
92 MCOAviationFan: Good question! Nothing on the schedule yet. There will probably be something else. The 744 is scheduled to arrive ATL at 1445 from NRT. The HNL depar
93 Dalmd88: The dissim with the MD90 is way more than the 763-3P6ER. The MD90 has a completly different electrical system. It doesn't use a CSD/Gen mounted on th
94 Slcdeltarumd11: How fuel efficient are the MD-90s? I cant imagine DL wanting more aircraft but it could make sense if they can loose some less fuel efficient aircraft
95 DeltaL1011man: Same as what I've been told. about the same as the A320s.....the 90s are a good plane the problem DL has with them is the lack of transcon range. yes
96 Planefxr: The differences on 767 fleet are minor in most cases and do not include major systems such as generator systems, primary flight controls, interphone/
97 DeltaL1011man: This is what I have been told. I heard When TechOps went to China to look at them they are in ok shape and wouldn't take much down time and money to
98 Planefxr: Sorry, above my pay grade, but I have heard a dollar purchase figure.
99 Gigneil: The 73G is the code for a 737-700. The 73W and 738 are the appropriate codes for the 737-800. The 73G blows for their network. They don't operate any
100 C010T3: AFAIK, 73W is the 73G with winglets and 73H is the 738 with winglets.
102 PSU.DTW.SCE: The DC-9-50's will be the last of the DC-9's to stay in the fleet. The incremental operating cost of the -50 over the -30/40 is minimal with an additi
103 DeltaL1011man: ummm what is forever? They had the 733s(10......see the 10 73Gs now ) and they had 732s for YEARS. the last 732 has only been gone for 4-5 years. Onc
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