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Update On NWA/Delta 747-200F's  
User currently offlineTropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10112 times:

Can someone please update here what the status of the former NWA 747-200F's is ? How many are still flying and what is too happen to them? Are any for sale or they going to be scrapped? I see some are already in the desert and suspect they will stay there.

Thanks

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline707437 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9882 times:

The dream scenario would be for Delta to leverage the 777-200LR program and buy some 777Fs. . . But then they could lease some secondhand 747-400s and get by. . . Cargo Market is ugly. . . when it hits bottom it may not rebound for a long time. . .

A lot of the classic heavy metal ought to be parked for good anyway. . . I wonder how dedicated Delta will be to flying pure Freighters???


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9661 times:



Quoting TropicBird (Thread starter):
How many are still flying and what is too happen to them?

9 are flying. 4 are stored. They are going to keep flying for now. There is no plan to get rid of them yet.

Quoting TropicBird (Thread starter):
Are any for sale or they going to be scrapped?

None are for sale. My guess is they will be scrapped once they are done with them.

Quoting TropicBird (Thread starter):
I see some are already in the desert and suspect they will stay there.

They've been there for a while. In fact, just last month there was a swap, N629US, which was in service, went to the desert, and N630US, which was stored there, came out and is flying again.

Quoting 707437 (Reply 1):
I wonder how dedicated Delta will be to flying pure Freighters???

Like I said, there is no plan currently that shows the freighters going anywhere. This comes straight from one of the 742F captains, who regularly checks up on this.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

DL is still touting the freighter service to the cargo customers, so, it would seem that they plan to keep doing it for awhile.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9605 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 3):
DL is still touting the freighter service to the cargo customers, so, it would seem that they plan to keep doing it for awhile.

Cargo service, when the economy is strong, is quite lucrative. It would be foolish for Delta to let that service fall by the side. It bears pointing out that the economy will recover, though it's going to take some time. Smart airlines are planning for the future, in long range terms, while dealing as effectively as they can with the present. Maintaing a gloom and doom stance won't get any business anywhere.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

The 8 B747F and the 2 PAX B747-200's are not going to be part of the new Delta. We will see the aircraft put out of service by the end of the year.

User currently offlineTISTPAA727 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 330 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8949 times:
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Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 5):
The 8 B747F and the 2 PAX B747-200's are not going to be part of the new Delta. We will see the aircraft put out of service by the end of the year.

Not saying you are incorrect, but can you provide a source? I know this has been discussed in the past but those threads were quite a while ago and I am curious if DL has said anything publicly since.

Like EBJ1248650 stated, it would seem prudent of DL to keep the cargo/freighter service going for when cargo traffic picks back up. Maybe a scaled down version of the freighter business while the economy is down...



Don't sweat the little things.
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8810 times:



Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 5):
The 8 B747F and the 2 PAX B747-200's are not going to be part of the new Delta. We will see the aircraft put out of service by the end of the year.

Not saying you are wrong, but just what I said before was that they are still touting the service to the cargo customers. Also, weren't the 747-200's to be used for the gov't. pax contract that was recently agreed to?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8733 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 4):
Smart airlines are planning for the future, in long range terms, while dealing as effectively as they can with the present. Maintaing a gloom and doom stance won't get any business anywhere.

At the same time, DL isn't fully doing that, they are just going with the quickest and cheapest options (Deltamatic etc.)

Quoting Mayor (Reply 7):
Also, weren't the 747-200's to be used for the gov't. pax contract that was recently agreed to?

Yes, but that was for the year 2009 they got the contract for.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSgtusmc96 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8711 times:



Quoting TISTPAA727 (Reply 6):

This was announced in our last meeting with our VP of tech ops and a DL tech ops gentleman can't remember who he was though! No more 747-200 after SOC.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8662 times:



Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 9):
This was announced in our last meeting with our VP of tech ops and a DL tech ops gentleman can't remember who he was though! No more 747-200 after SOC

Which means a job loss as a result of the merger (supposidly not happening) or have they said what would happen to the couple hundred employees?



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8598 times:

completing getting rid of their cargo side is a huge mistake. at least park them and possibly reactivate them from storage once the economy picks up again. if you have a DOD contract, why not keep doing it?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25754 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

I'm very surprised the freighters have stuck around this long and the company has been willing to carry their associated overhead cost.

Per chats by Ed Bastian and company the freighter ops have been a loss making venture for over 2 years.
With the loss of NWA's #1 cargo customer(DHL) to Polar, inefficiency of the classic (payload, crew, maintenance burden) and today's significant global cargo softness personally I expected the plug to be pulled following what ended up being a non-existant 4th quarter peak.

Quoting 413x3 (Reply 11):
completing getting rid of their cargo side is a huge mistake. at least park them and possibly reactivate them from storage once the economy picks up again.

The carrying cost of even a grounded fleet is huge. You'd be be paying for crews, support infrastructure from maintenance to document services etc.

Quoting 413x3 (Reply 11):
if you have a DOD contract, why not keep doing it?

A pair of weekly AMC roundtrips is not going to keep a plane around. If that was the case, then folks like Atlas Air, Kalitta and other would not be getting rid of 50% of their 747 classic fleets either.

Business is based on dollars and cents, and nothing should be sacred including at the new Delta.

[Edited 2009-02-23 08:53:44]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5608 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8526 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 7):
Also, weren't the 747-200's to be used for the gov't. pax contract that was recently agreed to?

It is easy to imagine that the service could be provided by 747-400s after their replacement with 777-300ERs...  scratchchin 


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8465 times:



Quoting 413x3 (Reply 11):
completing getting rid of their cargo side is a huge mistake.

Well, it wouldn't be getting rid of the cargo side, completely. Just the all cargo operation. Still plenty of cargo ops out there using the bellies of the pax a/c. However, I can see the need for an all freighter operation, if marketed correctly and in a more robust economy.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8355 times:



Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 5):
The 8 B747F and the 2 PAX B747-200's are not going to be part of the new Delta. We will see the aircraft put out of service by the end of the year.

Source?

We're hearing just the opposite on the 5550/5680 side...

Quoting Mayor (Reply 7):
Also, weren't the 747-200's to be used for the gov't. pax contract that was recently agreed to?

Yes.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1107 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8291 times:
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I remember reading that Delta has decided not to commit to keeping dedicated freighters.
Delta will maintain it its "cargo operation" using the bellies of its aircraft only.  old 


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8221 times:

The belly cargo of the 777's is enough to take a good dent out of the cargo flights if there is an overlap in destinations. AC is probably quite happy that they found that out before the downturn and were able to cancel their 777F's or bring back the 747-200m's. It was easier to cancel or not extend the wet leases on the MD11's and DC10.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8043 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 7):
Also, weren't the 747-200's to be used for the gov't. pax contract that was recently agreed to?

yes

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
Yes, but that was for the year 2009 they got the contract for.

but bidding for 2010 and 2011 contract. Also 2-3-4 times what they will be doing this year. (which will only take 2-3 a/c) All are 74Fs BTW. The 2 PAX 742s will keep doing what they have been doing.



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25754 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

Btw - so everyone understands, on government work one does not need to fly the missions yourself.

For example until recently for years National Air Cargo a brokerage has bid and was awarded DoD flying which they would sub out to people like Evergreen and Atlas. Similarly Polar Air has not flown a AMC trip (except an odd substitution here ot there) for almost 2 years but turns its award over to Atlas.

Additionally other US carriers get missions awarded, and even sub the flying out to Russian AN-124 operators.

So NWA having been awarded, and pursuing AMC business does not mean it has to fly them itself.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1107 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7981 times:
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Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):

but bidding for 2010 and 2011 contract. Also 2-3-4 times what they will be doing this year. (which will only take 2-3 a/c) All are 74Fs BTW. The 2 PAX 742s will keep doing what they have been doing.

Clarify your statement.  old 


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7976 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
So NWA having been awarded, and pursuing AMC business does not mean it has to fly them itself.

all you said is very true and a good point.........but DL said they will be using there 742Fs to fly these missions. As I said above it will only take 3-4 74Fs



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25754 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7929 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
As I said above it will only take 3-4 74Fs

And I find it hard to believe Delta is going to spend the money to keep such a small standalone orphan fleet operational.

From the online chats on Deltanet going back to last summer, on multiple occasions the fate of the 742F fleet has been asked and in near every response has been pessimistic.

Even in good times the economics of the classic are questionable and has seen NWA abandon one freighter market after another. let alone today with the massive pull back in global trade.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7916 times:

Last week at the Tech Ops town hall they told us the the B747F and B747-200 would not go to the Delta signal operating certificate.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7911 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
And I find it hard to believe Delta is going to spend the money to keep such a small standalone orphan fleet operational.

From the online chats on Deltanet going back to last summer, on multiple occasions the fate of the 742F fleet has been asked and in near every response has been pessimistic.

Even in good times the economics of the classic are questionable and has seen NWA abandon one freighter market after another. let alone today with the massive pull back in global trade.

Fine they lied  Yeah sure
The online chats on DeltaNet pretty much say they are not making moeny where they are at. DL will have to do some work. No one has said they will be gone. Till then them bidding and winning contracts and saying they will be using the ex NW 74Fs to fly said contracts with is all I can go by. Unless you or someone has good hard proof. If its on DeltaNet PM me and i'll look it up.

Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 20):
Clarify your statement.

If this deal is a good place to put the 74Fs till they can make money on there own then DL will look to add to the contracts they have.



yep.
25 Kiwiandrew : just to clarify , does "SOC" refer to "single operating certificate" ?
26 Nwarooster : Three freighters already have been scrapped. A good number are a little long in the tooth. One of he newer ones, N645NW, that was converted to a frei
27 Nwab787techops : Sorry guys, But Delta never did like the B747. They only had there B747-100's for a short time. It would not shock me to see them get ride of the B747
28 DeltaL1011man : thats because it was to big for Delta at said time. Now the 744 is not to big. I do agree they will go and be replaced by 77Ws though.
29 LAXintl : Yes. Check with the NWA MEC and what crew members were told at the ANC base meeing last week. In summary all the ANC flying(freighter ops) will be co
30 Bennett123 : 3 gone already, do you have details?
31 Nwarooster : I stand corrected, only two (N617US & N618US) have been scrapped according to aerotransport.org. N616US, N629US and N645NW are in storage. N630US is
32 Reltney : Someone has to be the big mouth so it is me today.. This is not a slam but a cool fact about the quoted text.. The 747 is called a 747 not B-747. B-
33 SYfan100 : I never could figure out why Northwest did not look at getting 4 brand new Boeing 747-400 cargo aircraft. When you stop in think about it they could h
34 DC10BHX : That to me would be a recipe for disaster. Imagine paying out for 4 totally brand new frames and then deciding that all cargo ops are not working for
35 Post contains links Mayor : Exactly right. The 747 was too large for the route system we were operating at the time. But to say that DL never liked the 747 is just wrong and I w
36 Nwarooster : " target=_blank>http://www.delta.com/business_progra...x.jsp That could change as fast as it takes to hit the delete button.
37 DeltaL1011man : This is true BUT all this will do is hurt them. If i plan to use Delta Cargo because of this then they do as you say........hello UPS or FX. Best bet
38 Mayor : Exactly. DL isn't stupid, no matter what some on here think. If they really thought the freighter operation wasn't worth it, they could just let it q
39 Gigneil : Lots of people are losing their jobs, especially on the regional side. NS
40 Mayor : I believe they said there would be no frontline, mainline jobs lost.
41 Airbuske : Do you have a source? Mayor, we have had this discussion several times before. The question is whether DL is going to have a dedicated cargo fleet, n
42 Post contains links Mayor : I have mentioned nothing of belly cargo service.....just maindeck, all cargo service. If you would care to look at the link I posted, maybe that woul
43 Post contains links PGNCS : Perhaps it would be better if you reconsider opening your "big mouth" today. Looking at the back of my ATP Under part XII "Ratings" is says this, ver
44 413X3 : most people seem to not understand basic business. Northwest should have purchased new Cargo aircraft when times were good, but now that times are ba
45 Reltney : " target=_blank>http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e.pdf As a former (DE) examiner 85-92, I know it well. Somethings wrong. One of my old ones sa
46 DeltaL1011man : there will be no lay offs. Only buy-outs. HAHAHAHA Alright lets get this one stright right now. DL will not Is not and wont be even thinking about re
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