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B787 Status  
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 50354 times:

There has been little rumble on the B787 lately. When is the first flight scheduled for and have there been any recent cancelations?


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
298 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 50396 times:



Quoting BillReid (Thread starter):
There has been little rumble on the B787 lately. When is the first flight scheduled for and have there been any recent cancelations?

There has been a lot of information recently, including cancelations...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 50296 times:

There have been 32 B-787 orders cancelled, so far, in 2009.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Boeing has delivered 35 new airplanes so far in 2009.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...ReportType=CurYrDelv&pageid=m15520

Boeing is still on track for the first flight of the B-787-8 in Q2/2009. That should be on or before 30 June 2009.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/programfacts.html


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17079 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 50201 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
There have been 32 B-787 orders cancelled, so far, in 2009.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...x.cfm

I know that S7 canceled 16 787s. Who canceled the other 16?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineCerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 49972 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
I know that S7 canceled 16 787s. Who canceled the other 16?

S7-15
LCAL-16
VIP-1


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 9 hours ago) and read 48173 times:

Saj has written a pretty good article on the 787 thus far:

http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/02/23/787program/

Enjoy the read!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 45906 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
Saj has written a pretty good article on the 787 thus far:

I am sorry to say this but fleetbuzzer is about as informative/entertaining as Randy's Blog. Rarely is so little said with so many words as on these two sites. And the fleetbuzzer now even promises to do a sequel!

The only worthwhile piece of information is that there'll be no such thing as a second production line in the foreseeable future.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Boeing is still on track for the first flight of the B-787-8 in Q2/2009. That should be on or before 30 June 2009.

Great, but where does it take us? Certification by end of January? Not.

Let's see what else is out there on the 'net:
LN2 is reported to fly no earlier than August, by which time (end of month) actually all six flight test airplanes were supposed to be in the air according to the official guidance. LN3 and LN4 are on backburner while firefighting is still focussed on LN1, ZY9997, and LN2 - so it's safe to say they'll not be ready any earlier than LN2.

Not that difficult to figure that entry into service in 1Q 2010 is wishful thinking. And there's not yet one additional unk-unk factored into the equation.

Apart from that, CFRP laydown operations have stopped at Vought and Spirit without any indication that production may restart anytime soon. In the meantime, some of the trained personnel has been laid off and more is in the process of being laid off.
Spirit said they are going to assemble something like 10-15 shipsets in 2009. Let's assume the supply chain manages another 25-30 in 2010 so that the total inventory at the end of 2010 would be around 50. That is about 50 planes short of what Boeing announced in April 2008 and more than 180 short of what they envisaged in 2007 (check page 31 of the Airbus dossier). How they get to 10 a month by 2012 from there is up to anyone's guess. First delivery of the 787-9 is scheduled for early 2013 now instead of late 2010. Some customers indicated their ~2015 slot deliveries would be "in excess of 27 months late" or even 36 months late - but these announcements were made before the latest 6-month delay. Given these circumstances, Qantas indicates they may walk away from the first 15 aircraft orders with no penalties, others may do so (would actually help to alleviate delays for others)

If I was CaptainX I'd say that my parametric model sees the entry into service slip into 2011. I am a little more optimistic than that, but not much.

[Edited 2009-02-23 12:02:26]

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17079 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 44109 times:



Quoting Cerecl (Reply 4):
S7-15
LCAL-16
VIP-1

Thank you for that list. It is sad to see them canceling the 787.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineArabAirX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 43475 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 7):
Thank you for that list. It is sad to see them canceling the 787.

Didnt these customers blame the terminations on the economic climate troubles etc?

We may well see more 787 orders lost this year too.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 43457 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting B747forever (Reply 7):
Thank you for that list. It is sad to see them canceling the 787.



Quoting ArabAirX (Reply 8):
Didnt these customers blame the terminations on the economic climate troubles etc?

S7 evidently doesn't want to wait for Boeing, so they are going to secure planes from lessors at an earlier date.

LCAL evidently could not find customers for their planes (I guess they were getting theirs later then S7's original deliveries).


User currently offlineWildbill1981 From Norway, joined May 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 43341 times:

Seems like things are starting to speed up again.


"EVERETT, Wash., Jan. 30, 2009 -- Production of Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliners resumed yesterday with the join of the fifth airplane designated for flight test.

This airplane, designated ZA005, is the first to be powered with General Electric GEnx engines. The major assemblies were loaded in final body join over the past several days. The fuselage and wing joins occur simultaneously.

"This airplane signifies our return to a steady production rhythm," said Jack Jones, vice president of 787 Final Assembly and Change Incorporation.

"Sections are arriving in Everett at the completion levels committed by our partners and close to what is expected for mature production," Jones said. "The substantial progress made by our partners streamlines the assembly process, which is essential as we ramp up production."

Five of the six airplanes designated for flight test are now in varying stages of production. Power was restored earlier this week to the first flight-test airplane, ZA001, and production testing has resumed as the airplane prepares for first flight in the second quarter. Rolls-Royce engines are hung on ZA002, in the fourth and final production position in the factory. The third and fourth flight-test airplanes, ZA003 and ZA004, are in the third and second production positions, respectively.

Fastener rework is done on ZA001, nearly complete on ZA002 and progressing well on the third and fourth airplanes, Jones said. "We have applied the resources necessary to complete all the outstanding work on these airplanes and keep the production line moving forward."

Assemblies for the final flight-test airplane, ZA006, are in production at partner sites worldwide. In all, assemblies for 30 Dreamliners are in production at this time.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 895 airplanes from 58 airlines."

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2009/q1/090130a_nr.html


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43319 times:

Flightblogger posted a picture on his sight of the 787 FAL as of Feb. 17, 2009:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeing-787-final-assembly-line.html



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43294 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 11):
Flightblogger posted a picture on his sight of the 787 FAL as of Feb. 17, 2009:



I read Boeing is refusing to release high definition pictures as they use too.

Probably experience learned not so amateur eyes will look closely and see things / draw conclusions that contradict marketing statements but proved not so untrue.


User currently offlineArabAirX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43248 times:

James Wallace posted that last week on his blog too:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/162478.asp


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43207 times:



Quoting Wildbill1981 (Reply 10):
Seems like things are starting to speed up again.


"EVERETT, Wash., Jan. 30, 2009 --

With respect, it's not very new news.

I am curious to know how Boeing is doing re: the schedule they released late last year. Was it in November? That schedule included the fastener problems being sorted out by the end of 2008, which did not happen. Since then I have read of a software problem with the brakes, although I forget what exactly. I imagine that needs to be sorted out before the aircraft comes in for its first landing.

EIS Q1 2010 seems unlikely to me. Q2 seems more likely (assuming no nasty discoveries in flight testing).


User currently offlineNomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43151 times:

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 6):
Let's assume the supply chain manages another 25-30 in 2010 so that the total inventory at the end of 2010 would be around 50.

If your going to base your conclusions on baseless assmumptions you pulled out of the darkness, it should be easy to come up with whatever result you want.

[Edited 2009-02-24 09:50:38]


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43086 times:



Quoting Wildbill1981 (Reply 10):
In all, assemblies for 30 Dreamliners are in production at this time.

Err...what?

There may SOME parts for LN30 around sowehere, but fuselage production had stopped at 22 or so at Spirit and AFAIK is yet to be restarted, MHI wing shipsets are somewhere in the low 'teens at best. Face it guys, production is still in slo-mo, for good reason. They better incorporate all those engineering changes before they start ramping up, otherwise they'd end up with lots of unique aircraft that would need extensive refurb later on.

Quoting Wildbill1981 (Reply 10):
"This airplane signifies our return to a steady production rhythm," said Jack Jones, vice president of 787 Final Assembly and Change Incorporation.

"Progressing well"..."on track"..."laser focus"..."cut the corner"..."long pole in the tent"...heck, I think "steady production rhythm" is the best euphemism they came up with so far. But then he's right, a flatline IS a steady rhythm. Again: Structure production is HALTED at Spirit and Vought to name just two. None of the major suppliers can afford to build inventory up to LN30, let alone at these times. Do you enjoy being taken as fools?


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43069 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Boeing is still on track for the first flight of the B-787-8 in Q2/2009. That should be on or before 30 June 2009.

Boeing CLAIMS to be on track for the first flight in Q2/2009. But after all their broken promises in the past, I tend to believe it only when I see it.


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 43065 times:

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 15):
If your going to base your conclusions on baseless assmumptions you pulled out of the darkness, it should be easy to come up with whatever result you want.

I clearly put it as an assumption, what else can I do? Spirit said they expect to deliver 10-15 shipsets by end of 2009, and plan to be at LN45-LN50 in barrel manufacturing by then. I assume that final assembly manages to double the rate, from ~1/month in 2009 to ~2/month in 2010. For me that's quite reasonable, more so as I think it is well established by now that we will see a "Wave 2" in production from LN21 onwards, which will require some kind of transition.

But I am happy to learn what you have in mind.   

[Edited 2009-02-24 10:22:34]

User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 42829 times:



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 15):
If your going to base your conclusions on baseless assmumptions you pulled out of the darkness, it should be easy to come up with whatever result you want.



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 16):
There may SOME parts for LN30 around sowehere, but fuselage production had stopped at 22 or so at Spirit and AFAIK is yet to be restarted, MHI wing shipsets are somewhere in the low 'teens at best.

Doesn't sound like Rheinbote is pulling assumptions out of the darkness. Sounds like he had done his homework before posting but forgot to say so!

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 16):
Face it guys, production is still in slo-mo, for good reason. They better incorporate all those engineering changes before they start ramping up, otherwise they'd end up with lots of unique aircraft that would need extensive refurb later on.

 yes 


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 42696 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER



Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
I read Boeing is refusing to release high definition pictures as they use too.

Not sure where you heard that Keesje - but it is flat out not true. Boeing sent a hi res version (3600 x 2400) to members of the media on 20Feb.

This is as big as a file as they have ever released.

If anyone wants a copy feel free to email me.

Royal


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 42529 times:

Hi there ...

what is the status of Dreamliner One? What about the aqueous wash and the repaint?

Ron


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 42474 times:



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 16):
There may SOME parts for LN30 around sowehere, but fuselage production had stopped at 22 or so at Spirit and AFAIK is yet to be restarted,

“We were just continuing to work on the program,” Gann says, adding the production schedule on the 787 at Spirit is ahead of its delivery schedule. “We never really quit working on it.”

http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2009/02/02/daily1.html


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 42421 times:



Quoting Khobar (Reply 22):
“We were just continuing to work on the program,” Gann says, adding the production schedule on the 787 at Spirit is ahead of its delivery schedule. “We never really quit working on it.”

They never quit working on the barrels they already had on hand, but they stopped producing new ones in early 2008. The clean-room was mothballed.

Spirit AeroSystems Holdings Inc Q3 2008 Earnings Conference, October 29, 2008
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1028...conference-call-transcript?page=-1

David Strauss - UBS
Okay. And on 787, I might have missed it but I heard you delivered ship sets four and I think as of last call you had in progress or through 22. Can you just maybe give a little bit more color beyond four and five where you are with things?

Jeff Turner - President and Chief Executive Officer
Sure. I think we did ship number four. We talked about number five meeting the condition of assembly and ready to go number six. It is also in the final installation process. I think seven and eight are as well. And I think we told you previously that the process ... the early fabrication process on the barrels had been shut down. It has not restarted. We had originally planned to restart it early in the fourth quarter that of course is being extended by the strike.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 42353 times:



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 23):
They never quit working on the barrels they already had on hand, but they stopped producing new ones in early 2008. The clean-room was mothballed.

True, but if they are ahead of the schedule provided to them by Boeing, why would they try to get even more ahead of schedule? Is capital so free flowing right now that they can afford to have components build, paid for and stored?

As for the "30" number, it likely includes things like wheel sets, engines, cockpits, what have you. Assemblies are not just fuselage or control surfaces, but it's nice of you to continue to provide your negative spin for us...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Khobar : I did miss the reference to "30". Sorry.
26 Stitch : Well the subs and Boeing only have so much space on hand to store completed components. With the FAL "choked" because of the work LN001-LN004 all need
27 WingedMigrator : What, if anything, does the presence of temporary scaffolding around the wings of LN2 - LN5 indicate? I thought this would eventually turn into a cle
28 Pianos101 : For the long run, it means absolutely nothing. Vought has temporary scaffolding set up in it's final assembly cell. The key word is temporary: this s
29 Ikramerica : Well, he usurped "30" and applied it to something specific. If he can show me where Boeing says they have 30 barrels or parts for 30 barrels, I'd lov
30 Post contains links Khobar : "All the major structural suppliers: Spirit, Vought, Alenia, Fuji, Kawasaki and Mitsubishi have begun manufacturing roughly the entire complement of
31 WingedMigrator : But isn't the entire complement of Boeing's 2009 787 deliveries zero?
32 Tdscanuck : As of about 30 seconds ago, they still had the high resolution pictures posted on boeingmedia.com It's not exactly clear what the problem with the so
33 Dynamicsguy : You should see how many ailerons we have all over the place here... We got our line up to a particular rate, then things got delayed, and then delaye
34 Brendows : LN6 may become a good indicator since the wings arrived with all systems installed (but as Tdscanuck notes - the scaffolding might be there necessary
35 Post contains links Rheinbote : It may look like negative spin...amongst positive spin like this: While space indeed is a factor, the major drivers for the production hiatus are cos
36 BlueSky1976 : I, personally, will be 100% sure of the first flight date when the engine run-ups have been done and the slow-speed taxi tests are scheduled. Those a
37 JoeCanuck : The fact is, they're building planes.
38 Dynamicsguy : Well, that quote was from halfway through last year, so it may still have been the plan to deliver that many by then. With the most recent schedule t
39 Post contains links Rheinbote : Curtiss-Wright Q4 2008 Earnings Conference http://seekingalpha.com/article/1213...8-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1 "Michael Ciarmoli - Boenning & Sc
40 Stitch : I interpreted Rheinbote's comment as referring to the weight-reduction program Boeing has been working on with the early frames.
41 Khobar : The only reason I brought up was to "challenge" your assertion that the numbers were in the low teens at best for some components. I like to think of
42 ArabAirX : Was the weight reduction supposed to have commenced on LN20 onwards??
43 Pianos101 : Not necessarily. It's not really "the" weight reduction, as in one particular effort to reduce weight throughout the aircraft. The WIP (weight improv
44 ArabAirX : Thanks Pianos101. Just a question on the WIP - if after refurb of the first 6 test frames, will WIP implmented on LN20 onwards we "retro-fitted" to th
45 Pianos101 : So L/N 20 is a new "blockpoint" which means that there's a whole bunch of new engineering that is being incorporated into the airplane, including for
46 Gsosbee : Great explanation. However what about L/N 7 - 19? Do the operators of these get upgrade kits or just get a big price break since their airplanes will
47 Pianos101 : 7-19 are already pretty different from 1-6, because they are all original production aircraft. These aircraft will still have final configurations cl
48 Bmacleod : AA indicated they were buying the 787 buy they haven't ordered as of yet mainly due to econmonic conditions and their financial status. Still think th
49 Rheinbote : Wasn't LN20 supposed to introduce an increase in MTOW to 227,9t. (I presume for further range/payload recovery beyond the weight savings)? Does it me
50 Gsosbee : Thank you!
51 Post contains links NYC777 : Here's the 2nd part of 787 analysis article. More great stuff to read: http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/02/26/787program-part2/ Happy Reading.
52 Rheinbote : Wow, the second part is even less exciting than the first one! "From my [the fleetbuzzer's?] discussions with both Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airwa
53 Stitch : Honestly, why all the surprise over the 787-3? Just because a bunch of armchair aerospace engineers think the thing has to be a direct and superior re
54 Rheinbote : You want to make a point? Ikramerica 16373 posts in 4 years or about 4000pa Rheinbote 1313 posts in 3 years or about 450pa Who's "spending that much
55 Dynamicsguy : LN20 was certainly when "mission improvement" was supposed to come in. This included an increase in MTOW, but I don't know how much by.
56 Tdscanuck : Type certificates are basically independent of production. The type certificate is against the design, which can vary greatly (all 737's since the fi
57 Drexotica : Hmmm. Here's another statistic: Ikramerica - RR 49 Rheinbote - RR 21 (disclaimer - DrExotica - RR 0; yeah, I'm a lurker ...)
58 Baroque : Aha, so your point was 334 posts per RR unit against 62 posts per RU unit? That is a factor of about 5.3. So what DO you do if you happen to enjoy re
59 JoeCanuck : I'm waiting for the 787 unit...1 would be fine for now...
60 Baroque : Indeed it would. We could always while away the months/years (delete as appropriate) by organizing a sweepstake on how many posts on the 787 to first
61 Post contains links and images Part147 : Guys, Guys - you've drifted away from the thread again, it's almost like a 'mine one is bigger than your one' argument now - sigh - and we all know w
62 Thorben : OK, once we have seen it taxi high-speed on the run-way, we can expect the first flight to follow not too much later. However, from the latest pics I
63 Art : Nor does anyone else think first flight will be so soon, I think. With a troubled program that has a track record of missing all revised deadlines, Q
64 Post contains images Keesje : I will be 99% sure of first flight date if multiple independent sources have filmed, aired and confirmed to me the damn thing was the air on its own
65 XT6Wagon : When I read that the airlines remained committed to the 783, my first thought is thier 783 slots are going for 788 and they can worry about thier 783
66 Pianos101 : Oh ok. i think i got my certificates confused. But all of the 87's, regardless of engineering changes will still be on the same TC, correct? That's h
67 ArabAirX : Boeing has until June 30 to fly (or miss anotehr deadline) - why they'd want to "rush" that makes little sense with all the delays they have had alre
68 AirbusA370 : Well, you could put an aircraft in the air with not all systems perfectly finished for the test program. This would be not much more than a circling
69 Post contains links Gsosbee : Looks like it is official, Delta is walking away from the first batch of 787's: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...nnel=comm&id=news/DAL787030309.
70 Part147 : Wow! I think the test pilot's might have a problem with that! Realistically, it doesn't matter a flying fig what we or anyone else wants, those guys
71 Stitch : Well it's officially a deferment, since they were adamant they were not canceling their order nor their options. I expect they want 787-9s and/or 787-
72 Tdscanuck : Yes. It really depends on what they system is and what the flight calls for. For example, you can pretty happily fly with the weather radar inoperati
73 Dank : I actually read it more like, we haven't given up the order yet because we haven't negotiated the best option for 777s yet. That said, I would expect
74 Observer : Well, the could do the first flight on 7/8/09.
75 Ikramerica : These things can still be faked. I'll need to watch one take off myself on a trip to Seattle to be 95% sure. Now... The DL action may just be an acco
76 JQFlightie : We (JQ) start to take delivery of the 787 May 2010.....hopefully, JQ are really holding out for them for expansion reasons as our A330-200's are not v
77 Dynamicsguy : Given some of the non-issues I've had to spend a lot of time on closing out before first flight, I can assure you that they won't fly until they're a
78 ArabAirX : ...and I think as time moves on, if the certification also takes longer to do, with the amount of delays the 787 has faced already, perhaps customers
79 ArabAirX : How does one "fake" such an event?
80 Hamlet69 : In other 787 news: Boeing has revealed the identities of 2 UFO 787-8 orders: On November 23, 2007, Avianca converted 2 options into firm orders. This
81 Post contains links NYC777 : Ok the thread I started yesterday got deleted but here we go again. Flightblogger just posted his 787 Program update. It's in two pats with the 2nd pa
82 Rheinbote : Heh, what happened to the thread on the first part of Jon's update two days ago?
83 Ikramerica : How does one not understand a tongue and cheek comment? Why has the web made it impossible to make a joke without using emoticons to make sure everyo
84 DocLightning : I made a prediction of first flight for 1Q 2010. I'm sticking with it. I'm beginning to think that I'll be wrong, but I'm owning up to it. However, I
85 Post contains links NYC777 : Deleted by the mods. Here's the second part of Jon's report that deals with the move to production of the 787: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl..
86 Post contains links and images Keesje : According to Jon's article the 7 and following 787 will be severly modified. Blockpoint 1. After aircraft 20 (Blockpoint 2) structural changes to the
87 Post contains images Stitch : It's the first time they've ever done it this way, so I'm not surprised it's a mess. *shrug* On the plus side, good to hear ZA007 and her sisters wil
88 BuyantUkhaa : That does not sound too good, surely the suppliers build parts to specs.....right?
89 XT6Wagon : Yes, but its not an issue with the 787. Its an issue with the revisions to the 787 causing a small issue with the 747s modifed to carry the parts. We
90 Stitch : They did build them to the original spec, which was found wanting during testing and certification. A new spec was issued, but it resulted in a part
91 Aerodog : From Jon's report: "For example, a program source tells FlightBlogger that the production aft fuselage sections fabricated by Vought Aircraft Industri
92 Stitch : Airbus did so with the A380 to receive certification for the wing. *shrug* Both Boeing and Airbus continually improve their aircraft, changing struct
93 Dynamicsguy : It depends a lot on what is meant by 30% of the design changing. The number is meaningless without knowing how it is measured. Does it mean that the
94 Tdscanuck : There hasn't been a second 747 structural test article either, and a 747-8 is a whole lot more than 30% different than the original 747. Keep in mind
95 DLPMMM : I am not a software expert but my understanding was the breaking software problem was a "Quality Control documentation" problem. Apparently the origi
96 Post contains links Rheinbote : There are some tricky standards to deal with in software for aerospace applications, like DO178B, to name just one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-17
97 BillReid : I like your cynicism. But did you really post on this blog, and is there such a country as Holland? I really think the B787 program was designed for
98 Khobar : Not according to Airbus. Wow, I bet you can quote Boeing's codewords for "it's really going to crash and burn instead of fly." "Not as overweight as
99 Stitch : I remember another new commercial airliner family that was also recently delivered overweight and expected to miss payload/range guarantees, yet she
100 IAD787 : A few points to add here: 1. 30% is measured by changes in the assembly processes. Re designed parts require a different engineering requirement model
101 Pnwtraveler : This is indeed correct. The first time they lowered the landing gears during testing on the A380 the process failed and it got stuck on the doors rat
102 Kire : You don't say the engineering process?
103 Rheinbote : In a forum like this, positive and negative attitudes are complementary, neither attitude is 'wrong' or 'right'. I left the backdoor open when writin
104 Dynamicsguy : Thanks for clarifying. I know enough about IRMs, ARMs, CARMs, etc. to be dangerous (I'm a stress engineer rather than a designer). A change in form,
105 NYC777 : True and keep in mind that once the 787s are flying Boeing will identify other areas for weight savings and other imporvements which would be incorpo
106 Post contains images Keesje : Assumming flight testing takes about 12 months (some test aircraft coming on line slower then hoped for, light / moderate issues surfacing during tes
107 Pnwtraveler : Yes that is a given. I was only commenting on the mistakes made in the marketing and differences and new realities brought out now with the advent of
108 Ikramerica : Do they always audit the first production frame for this? On a side note, the first 20 or so A380s are not "production" aircraft in the general sense
109 Cerecl : According to wikipedia, 9 frames took part in 777 flight testing. 787 flight testing will have only 6. Given the issues seen so far, I think it is ra
110 Hamlet69 : Boeing also certified 3 airframe/engine combinations with the 777, while the 787 will only certify 2. The test frames for the 777 were: L/N 1: Boeing
111 Ikramerica : Exactly. They used 5 PW frames to reach initial certification for UA. They used two additional frames to support the GE90, and two more to support th
112 Revelation : If you are referring to the case shown in the A380 documentary, you may want to say "the first time they lowered the landing gears without power. Yes
113 Scouseflyer : i beleive that both the Wave 1 and Wave 2 are wired the same it's the process that has been followed that is (or will be) differant. Wave 1 and 2 A38
114 Cerecl : Thank you for the information Sure, but 787 breaks a lot of grounds too. It is really difficult to judge one program to be somewhat easier than the o
115 Baroque : I guess that is close to the question the detached observer wonders about in a - well - detached fashion. Do the delays mean that other issues that c
116 Post contains links NYC777 : Ok well Scott Carson told the audience at an aviation conference that Dreamliner 1 is factory complete and will be making the trip to the paint shop v
117 Ikramerica : Are you sure? I was under the impression that ultimately, most of the Wave 1 aircraft are unique. Not alarmingly so, but they had to be rewired 1 by
118 757GB : Thank you for the information. I can't wait to finally see her fly (I bet nobody has said this yet huh?). Regards, GB
119 AirNz : Out of curiosity, I find the above post to be clear assumption and, indeed, the word is even said in the last sentence along with previous words such
120 Rheinbote : The 787 is going to fly one day and it starts to look like this could happen in Q2 now. This would certainly be a much needed booster for morale. Wha
121 Stitch : It now appears that the six ships used for the test program will not be delivered in serial based on their frame number. So we will see ZA001 fly fir
122 Post contains links CV880 : Per WSJ, DL to keep NW orders for 787 link: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090310-713532.html?mod=wsjcrmain
123 Stitch : Even the reports stating that DL was not going to take delivery of ZA003, ZA004 and the other 16 787-8s they have been allotted still noted DL was no
124 Revelation : I see your point. I am a very pro-active person, so I tend to try to use time when I'm blocked to try to unblock future work. Hopefully that will hap
125 Baroque : All true, BUT! The but being that prior to the A380 you could have said most of those things though not as precisely. Let us keep a careful eye on th
126 Keesje : " target=_blank>http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/s....html The program has been riddled with unexpected hick-ups sending officialy confirmed milest
127 JoeCanuck : Well, we'll know soon enough if the wait has been worth it. I'm happy to not hear about any more major problems, ie, fasteners. It's amazing how much
128 Klkla : I know, it reminds me of Airbus' handling of the A380 fiasco.
129 Alessandro : I beg you a pardon, A380 fiasco? 25 flying and 13 commercially, maiden flight almost 4 years ago? No crashes with the A380. Compare this with the B78
130 Klkla : Short memory? Don't forget the A380 started development YEARS before the 787, so only 13 in service is not that great of an accomplishment. But that
131 Ikramerica : Keesje willing the program to fail. Predictable. The dates can only be confirmed when we see it fly, but if #1 is finished (finally) and ready for pa
132 Hamlet69 : Keesje assumed that it is going to take 12 months for flight test with no data to back it up (other than that is how long Airbus usually takes). Boei
133 Post contains links 757GB : It is also in Flightglobal: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...till-in-787-talks-with-boeing.html Carrier executive Ed Bastian today during the J
134 Post contains links Ikramerica : Here is an update on the 787, including this: http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/03/11/787targets/ I still wonder if #7 may have to be enlisted to
135 ArabAirX : Wouldnt that depend on how quickly the first couple of 787's move out of the factory to make way for final assembly of #6 and #7? I do get the impres
136 Post contains links and images Keesje : Non sense. I promised old Boeing mates beer at the Paris Airshow if they bring it in. I just try to determine a real most likely EIS date as I have b
137 Stitch : With ZA001 done, they can move her to the paint shop. That means ZA002 can move to the 747 line and ZA003 can move to the 767 line (since both lines
138 Part147 : Hmm... it seems you put your head above the wall first, so no wonder someone 'shot' at you, so why you got defensive then is a bit confusing?... ...t
139 Pnwtraveler : I have suspected that the Newly merged Delta/NW airline would be out to make the most of its new clout to leverage savings everywhere. From peanuts ri
140 Post contains links ArabAirX : 787 LN 1 in the paintshop http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/3346303704/
141 Klkla : Huh? No corner. No defensiveness. What part of my statement are you disagreeing with? Or, are you just rattling off irrelevant statements?
142 YVRtoYYZ : What is the status of ZA006 & ZA007? The last images I saw was the rear barrel for ZA006 sitting in Everett, but have heard nothing about the product
143 Stitch : I believe it has been reported that all the shipsets for ZA006 are both completed and finished to specification (so no travel work) and are due to ar
144 Ikramerica : Whatever. Building an aircraft and testing it are two different things. Boeing, to my knowledge, has not screwed up their flight testing of aircraft
145 Post contains links NYC777 : Ok well this program is going forward and that's a huge positive and I think that's how we need to look at it. Here's a couple new blog posts: http://
146 Ikramerica : Any reason for delay in moving the line? Was it something with one of the planes already in the line, or was it that the center fuse was a week behind
147 Stitch : I believe that is because #3 is not as far along for being flight-ready as #4 is (I think due to more fasteners needing replacement), so I seem to re
148 Rheinbote : What do you base your believe on? What exactly makes #4 "more far along for being flight ready"? Why should #4 have had a higher priority for fastene
149 757GB : I agree 100%. Most of us have our preferences for sure, and there is a lot to learn from so many folks here. Yet at times it's unseemly how people ge
150 757GB : " target=_blank>http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/n....html Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
151 Nomadd22 : Nobody said that. #4 is further along because it needed less fastener rework.
152 Bongo : What happened/will happen with AV 787 orders?
153 Ikramerica : Why not pay attention instead of scratching your chin? #3 will be moved out of line to the 747 hangar because it is less important and has more faste
154 Post contains images Stitch : It would be based on one or more of the following sources: Boeing statements, Boeing comments, aerospace journal reports, aerospace blogs, media repo
155 ArabAirX : Sorry to have to say this, but you question so much yet bring nothing of substance or interest to discussions - in particular 787 based discussions.
156 N14AZ : Well spoken! There will be times when we all will wish that this duopoly will come back... Stupid question of mine - I didn't see anything about this
157 Stitch : Evidently the plane does need at least touch-up paint, per comments from Boeing spokesfolk during the IAM strike.
158 NYC777 : The palne has been literally taken apart and put back together. It doesn't have some of the original parts from the 2007 roll out...like the passenge
159 Part147 : So will that mean they have to remove the original paint? If they do it'll add more time to the process, if they don't it'll add more weight won't it
160 Dynamicsguy : In practice the certification plan would require re-work which is an enormous amount of work in itself. For one of our components we looked into subs
161 Petera380 : Scheduled to be in the paint shop 10 days.
162 NYC777 : They might just strip off some of the old paint where they need toremove and then repaint those area. Or they could strip off all the paint and repai
163 Ikramerica : Yeah, I wondered about that. Boeing and the FAA took years to design the test program. But I would imagine that #1 is much different in that it is th
164 NYC777 : Yeah my thinking is that each subsequent test aircraft will be in the air about 3 weeks after the prior test airplane. So in about a span of 15 weeks
165 Post contains links Rheinbote : but That was my understanding based on all the previous publications. As the latest fastener issue affected all airplanes to the same extent (number
166 MCIGuy : So I take it we'll see "Roll Out: Part Deux" of the new "flight-ready" 787, albeit with less fanfare?
167 Ikramerica : Yes, but it doesn't mean they are throwing equal resources at each aircraft, in order, to solve the problem. What I gathered was that #4 was more imp
168 Rheinbote : I think it is easy to underestimate the scope and complexity of passenger systems. You can have lots of 'fun' with doors, slides, multifunctional seat
169 474218 : [ And all of 200 sold. Orders for 900.
170 YVRtoYYZ : When does the move for ZA002 & ZA003 to the B747 and B767 line occur?
171 WingedMigrator : The 787 did indeed pass through the 900-order mark. Twice.
172 NYC777 : This line move should happen this weekend (March 14-15).
173 Scouseflyer : Once in each direction......... hopefully to followed by a third on the way back up:D
174 Ikramerica : Eventually. But my bet is it may break 800 again before it breaks 900 again. Mike
175 Nomadd22 : Less than the number of times I made E-5 in the military. One good thing about being late. They won't have to worry about building less than capacity
176 Ikramerica : They never had to worry about that. The reason that orders slowed is that the line was sold out (through orders and options) so far into the future,
177 Post contains links Rheinbote : "Shanghai airlines is considering canceling part of its 787 order as Chinese airlines work to renegotiate with Boeing on their early delivery slots."
178 Stitch : With a little bit of luck, Boeing will be able to place ZA001 through ZA020 with NH and not have to worry about building the 787-3.
179 Ikramerica : Can they chop off the wingtips and certify some blended winglets? And what about JL? Who holds the bag there? Obviously they could derate the aircraf
180 Stitch : Do not all three proposed 787 variants use the same wing structure, the difference being the wingtip extensions? So they could pull the 787-8 raked wi
181 Ikramerica : My understanding is the that 783 wing could not simply be converted the 788, or vice versa. They have different structural elements in the wing to co
182 474218 : I predict Boeing sells 1300, 787's sold before Airbus sells 300, A380's!
183 Ikramerica : I don't think this is the thread to start this argument in...
184 474218 : Who's starting an argument, I made a prediction, just like you did!!!
185 AirNZ : Yes, but the prediction made in Reply 174 was directly related to this thread.......with no reference whatsoever to a completely different aircraft t
186 Post contains links Rheinbote : NYC787 has an update on 787 FAL movements http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/7...ove-tonight-saturday-march-14.html LN3 removed from FAL position #3 t
187 NYC777 : Very true, and subsequent sections for future airplanes (I'm not sure what line numbers that covers) that have already been built at partner sites ar
188 Post contains images Keesje : I have a growing feeling Boeing is heading for an increased write-off on the first 6 and probably 20 Dreamliners and maybe some buy back guarantees. M
189 NYC777 : Totally disagree, there are airlines who would line up for the first 20 airplanes and Boeig would get a lot of money for them. Case in point...A380s
190 Post contains links JoeCanuck : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...er-787-8s-to-speed-turnaround.html
191 TISTPAA727 : When I read the story of Shanghai Airlines canceling part of their order, this came to mind. The first 20 could be taken with an arrangement to repla
192 Stitch : I can easily see NH and JL taking all 20 for domestic operations where their overweight condition wouldn't be a factor. I don't think Boeing is going
193 FrmrCAPCADET : I think it somewhat inane to assume that the early 787s will not be quite efficient at some missions, while quite willing to agree that they will not
194 Nomadd22 : I'd imagine Boeing sent the right temp specs for the concentrators and the manufacturer said they met them. They might be a little wary of asking the
195 Brendows : During the Vought Q4 conference call it was said that section 47/48 for LN7 looked really good (in terms of engineering changes that had been impleme
196 Travelhound : I can't remember where I got the information from, but I thought Crane (the maker of the brakes) said that the specs changed. Their argument was that
197 JoeCanuck : This is the bit I found the most interesting; According to the article, the brake issue is only for certain high energy stops and it seems to only eff
198 Post contains links Keesje : That could be. But it aint Delta/Northwest http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...g-deliver-the-787-within-spec.html Shanghai Airlines, http://www.fl
199 Tdscanuck : JAL or ANA. Both want the aircraft, both don't care about the known issues due to the type of flights. Tom.
200 Bkircher : Seems like were getting close to the first flight. Which is getting really exciting!!!
201 JoeCanuck : So how out of spec are these first aircraft supposed to be?
202 ArabAirX : Anyone who has order the -8 (or even 9) would be a vaiable candidate - unless the size of the orderbook passed you by
203 Astuteman : Two specifics came into play here. Firstly the A380 hit its fuel burn and range targets despite being overweight. Secondly, Airbus increased the MZFW
204 SafetyDude : So what's the pecking order of the first few 787s off the production line? Obviously ANA gets the 787 first, but what are the next few airlines after
205 Swallow : Then they may need to fly with the gear down to cool the brakes or employ cooling fans at the gate to effect quick turnarounds Shouldn't be a big pro
206 Rheinwaldner : The 787 will probably sell much slower from now on: - An extreme amount of demand has been satisfied. Demand is not infinite. - The A350 is ready to
207 Post contains links Keesje : Anyone has an idea wath the additional costs are of flying around 5 tonnes of deadweight for 20 yrs? But lets ignore the weight / fuel consumption iss
208 SEPilot : " target=_blank>http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...83647 Good shot of the Home Depot fasteners; however the "after" picture doesn't really show a
209 Stitch : I believe Boeing has already raised the spec MTOW of the 787-8, have they not? And last I heard was the GEnx and the Trent 1000 were both missing the
210 WINGS : The early A380's only had their wiring replaced. The A380 did not suffer any stuctural changes that has been witnessed with the 787. Regards, Wings
211 Stitch : I distinctly recall that the various sections did not have their wiring conduits lined up properly, requiring new holes cut into the frames to allow
212 OldAeroGuy : Wasn't something done to the A380 wings after the static load failure?
213 SEPilot : I believe they had to beef up certain parts; much like Boeing had to do on the wing box of the 787.
214 Astuteman : Indeed. If Boeing are able to mimic the outcome on the A380, which is entirely possible, there shouldn't be an issue 16kg of additional strengthening
215 Rheinbote : It is safe to say that there is not one aircraft design that did not "suffer" any structural changes as a result of testing or early operations. I'd
216 Tdscanuck : It might not be a problem at all, if the airports they run those aircraft on have long runways. More spoiler/reverser braking and low autobrake setti
217 Ikramerica : I think so on the first 6, not on the 7-20. The first 6 could end up being like the A320-100, limited but still useful. Old news there. It won't matt
218 Hawkercamm : As I understand it'll be ~450nm/5000kg short in SPP Payload Range and this will mostly be fixed by a MTOW/MWE increase which will result in ~2% highe
219 474218 : I think Bert Rutan would argue the fact that the B787 or A350 are the "first" CFRP aircraft.
220 Stitch : And I expect somebody else would take issue if Rutan made such a claim. But I find myself in agreement with Hawkercamm that we are seeing the first la
221 Post contains links JoeCanuck : Boeing committed to meeting -8 specs; http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...to-meeting-promised-787-specs.html Boeing sticks to test timeline; http:/
222 Keesje : Flight test start at the end of June 09. 6 Aircraft are joining flight testing in quick order. The various test programs are finished fast because of
223 Ikramerica : Strong or not, the wing failed to reach 1.5. 1.55 is not failure. It's just not optimal. But it requires no retrofitting. But they don't say what ord
224 474218 : I could agree with Hawkerman also if he would have used the word "airliner" as you did. However he said "airplane", thus my response.
225 Post contains links Keesje : And of course the Hawker 4000. http://www.mmsonline.com/uploadedima...nternal/Viper%20machine%20%202.jpg FAA type certification 2006, they licensed t
226 Post contains links and images NYC777 : Dreamliner 6 has started final assembly according to Boeing: You can read the article here: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/b...eing-announces-star
227 KELPkid : Ahh, Raytheon/Beechcraft's famous spindle/mandrel layup technique, where the whole fuselage is rotated as the carbon fiber is layed down (First appli
228 Flighty : Hahaha... So? Innovative? Yes. Fast? Hmmm... Yup. These first v1.0 products will not be optimal. It is a big huge grind to get them out at all. But t
229 Astuteman : To be honest, it's far from clear that the current Aluminium skinned aircraft constitute the pinnacle of their particular kind too... Still, you'd ex
230 Post contains links ArabAirX : Some great pics courtesy of Randy's Journal: http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2009/03/sixpack.html
231 Ikramerica : from Randy: In terms of overall production, we have 31 Dreamliners in various stages of assembly throughout the world. Huh.
232 WROORD : Even if they fly the first 787 in Q2/2009 there is not guarantee that they can keep their delivery schedule. There may be additional delays after a co
233 Ikramerica : Absolutely true but also complete speculation. This is potentially true of every program ever launched. It depends on the testing, really. Full produ
234 Ikramerica : This comment though is silly. A dangerous aircraft will not be certified in the 21st century. So at most, it might run into more delays than anticipa
235 JoeCanuck : I'm absolutely sure I would fly on the first models...sign me up...!
236 Swallow : Over one million have flown Big Momma at SQ alone . EK will reach this milestone in the not to distant future. And passengers around the world will q
237 XT6Wagon : Going over may in fact be optimal if you plan on HGW packages, etc in the near future since its easier to leave it in, than design it out, and then p
238 Stitch : The wings of a 747-400ER lift almost 25% more weight then the wings of a 747-100 did. Maybe the 747-100 wing was just that good, but I tend to think t
239 Keesje : Based on all the good news scattered over the last 200 posts I think we can assume Boeing will soon confirm the Dreamliner is on track for service ent
240 NYC777 : You mean first quarter 2010. Boeing has been saying since the announcement of the latest delay that they plan on first flight by end of 2nd quarter 2
241 Post contains images Keesje : Boeing said early Q1 and ANA says February 2010. If Boeing does the second flight in Q3 2009, finishes, powers up and flies the 6 prototypes quickly
242 Rheinbote : Your analogy is flawed. Being 5% short of utlimate load means you still have safety margin of 45% over the maximum load expected to be encountred in
243 NYC777 : The doors were the originally the ones put on LN 1 for the dog and pony show in July 2007. They were removed and sent back to the supplier to finish
244 Rheinbote : It's visible in the upper right corner of the image you pasted into reply 226.
245 NYC777 : I see the HTP for #6 unless you think the blue piece of equipment is the rudder. I think you might be mistaking that for the rudder. Usually the rudd
246 Ikramerica : That's not what the test is, though. No plane is really expected to reach 1.5 in service anyway, but it's a safety factor used for certifying that th
247 Rheinbote : the blue piece is a rudder in Dreamliner colors (try a more hi-res image from boeingmedia.com)
248 Keesje : More conservative estimations based on bits and pieces leaking from the program proved far, far more reliable then Boeing press releases and VPs tell
249 NYC777 : I did and I zoomed in on it. But at the end of the day we'll see it come out in a couple of months and we'll see. It's going to be painted in RAM col
250 Rheinbote : Agreed. No big deal anyway, I'm just curious. Have a nice weekend.
251 NYC777 : You too!
252 MCIGuy : ZA001 went into repaint eleven days ago, shouldn't it be reemerging soon?
253 NYC777 : Yep it should. I haven't heard definitively though.
254 Ikramerica : I thought it was only last week. I'm still hoping they will reveal a new livery as a surprise, and to help put the delay period behind them. After al
255 NYC777 : Well Jon Ostrower reported that it would be in the paint shop for 10 days for repainting and the wash of the fuel tanks. It went in on March 10th.
256 Tdscanuck : Yes. Boeing changes their house livery about once every 20-30 years. I'd be very very surprised if a new one comes out after getting a new one just t
257 Ikramerica : More often than that. The Dash-8 had a yellow livery. The 707 had a simple livery. Thick cheat line, otherwise just Boeing 707 on the fuse and small
258 Revelation : LOL! On the A400M thread you said such leaks were "nothing" sources, and ignored sources such as Gallois, Enders, etc who were saying the program was
259 Ikramerica : That should read Dash-80, of course. And it was yellow with a thick red cheatline with the arrow/wings at the front. Seems as if they used this desig
260 Post contains links and images N14AZ : There are some really nice photos of this prototype - only for those who are interested: View Large View MediumPhoto © Andy Vanderheyden View La
261 NYC777 : In response to Rheinbote question, I did find out that there is indeed a rudder painted in the Dreamliner" scheme. This rudder is actually for LN 7 w
262 Post contains links NYC777 : Just found out that Dreamliner 1 should be making the trip to the flight line either on March 25th or March 26th. Lastly, with Mt. Redoubt erupting in
263 Ikramerica : The 727 didn't seem to follow the 737 and 747 look, so I guess it was another intermediate livery? The 737 and 747 had a thicker cheat line and the g
264 Nomadd22 : If all the suppliers have got a handle on all the production issues now, and could start cranking out 100% perfect, finished barrels full tilt, would
265 Ikramerica : Well, it's a moot question, because all suppliers are not at that point. Yes, they can now deliver completed sections, but nowhere have I read they a
266 Stitch : I would expect they would in case they find new issues during certification and testing that require modifications to be made down the line. Much eas
267 ArabAirX : Cant see any benefit of ramping up production without being able to deliver to customers. We may see that change as flight tests come to an end.
268 Grantcv : Don't forget the 747SP which had a red white and blue livery. Actually, I believe it was a livery that allowed for easy modification to the Pan Am li
269 Post contains links and images N14AZ : Actually, the evolution of Boeing's house colours was as follows (I hope it's not too much off-topic): B707 (1954) View Large View MediumPhoto ©
270 SEPilot : Born in the land of rebellious Yankees, I like the variety.
271 Ikramerica : I think maybe they switched to red, white and blue for a few reasons. Concorde, Airbus and the bicentennial. With the 200 year USA celebration at han
272 Ronaldo747 : " target=_blank>http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/m....html Could the Dreamlifter do NGO-HNL-PAE instead? It's really great to see the progress and
273 Ikramerica : I wrote a comment on the blog about this. First, it's not going to PAE from what I understand, but Charleston. So it could go NGO-HNL-XXX-CHS, and I
274 NYC777 : I'm hearing that Dreamliner 1 might be moving to the flightline possibly this weekend but I don't have any firm confirmation of this. I'm also trying
275 Ikramerica : Anyone have pics of the repainted Dreamcicle 1? Whenever I read this, it sounds like something from a Japanese game show.
276 Adam42185 : Looks almost like the USAir livery from the 80s
277 SpruceMoose : I had the same thought. Look closely at the engine nacelle. -SpruceMoose [edit for tone clarity][Edited 2009-03-26 14:17:47]
278 Ikramerica : Well then that isn't the house livery. It's just one of the test frames painted in launch customer colors, which makes sense, as Boeing had already m
279 Post contains links NYC777 : Got some new infomation on Dremaliner 1. Click below to see: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2009/03/dreamliner-1-news.html
280 MCIGuy : The newly painted and "factory complete" ZA001 is suspiciosly absent from the public eye, it seems to be being kept under wraps. Possibly a tell of bi
281 ER757 : I sort of have the same question as one that was asked on the blog: What's involved in gaunlet testing and why won't it start for another two weeks?
282 Ronaldo747 : And why did Boeing set up the telemetry-stations around Paine Field now? It seems something going on in the next few days.
283 DocLightning : Thank you for this post; it can't have been a small amount of effort. I think the Dreamliner scheme is the best-looking of them all, although the 707
284 Ikramerica : Not if they want to reveal a new livery... Well, ground testing has to commence pretty soon, and before they do that, they need to get all the teleme
285 ER757 : So, I'd assume that the ground testing would require that the plane be running under its own power and not be towed around. Anyone have a best guess
286 Stitch : There are some tests ZA002 needs to perform before ZA001 can fly for the first time, but I don't recall what they are off the top of my head (they hav
287 777DEN : i think it's the ground vibration tests that ZA002 needs to complete before ZA001 takes flight for the first time
288 DocLightning : HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Did you want a pony with your livery?
289 Dynamicsguy : As 777DEN said, the ground vibration tests. What we've also not heard anything about recently are the tests on the static test airframe required befo
290 Ikramerica : Not before they get out on the flightline. And that's a couple of weeks away, it sounds.
291 Tdscanuck : Given that it's one of the milestones that they identified during the last schedule slide, and the fact that Boeing hasn't come out with a press rele
292 Ikramerica : You do various taxi tests, runway tests, etc. One of the final tests is running the engines to full thrust, beginning the takeoff roll, reaching the
293 Stitch : I also expect Boeing would want backup telemetry systems should something fail on the plane so they don't lose collected data or have to stop to fix
294 Tdscanuck : The full RTO test (MTOW, accelerate to V1, then stop) isn't done at PAE...those tests are done somewhere with a very very very long runway later in t
295 Ikramerica : I didn't say MTOW. But they would have to do a test like this, not at MTOW, before first flight, or they could not confirm that the plane is safe to
296 RayChuang : I remember Boeing using the main runway at Grant County Airport (MWH) airfield for this purpose, because the main runway is 13,500 feet long.[Edited
297 Rheinbote : It's the first full-up test of the airframe/landing gear/brake combination and you may want to measure the dynamic response? That's something that ca
298 HB-IWC : This thread has reached its critical length. Please start a new installment on the topic if you feel so inclined. Thread archived.
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