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TK B738 Crash At Amsterdam - Part 3  
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4505 posts, RR: 72
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 36094 times:

Please continue the discussion of the events surrounding the crash of Turkish Airlines flight TK1951 at Amsterdam Schiphol in this third installement.

The previous episodes of this discussion may be found here:

Part 1
Part 2

198 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 36143 times:

Still watching CNN live... Not any further clarify information.


DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27030 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 36063 times:

There is a map here ::

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3...kte_op_vrijgegeven_A9__.html?p=9,1

Click to enlarge.


User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1794 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35899 times:

not enough coverage in CNN US.. I cannot even get CNN international on my cable.. damn them!!!

Aydin/Wing , gecmis olsun  Sad I am speechless..



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35921 times:

I will repost this here:

Quote:
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 198):
German TV: AMS tower confirmes that emergency was decleared prior to crash due to engine problems, airport prepared for emergency landing.

I don't hear this on either of the Dutch channels (NOS / RTLZ). Neither has Schiphol released any other press statements since the short press conference at 1.30 pm, again the airport and the emergency services will provide more details at the next press conference (4 pm local time).


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35942 times:

German news magazine (spiegel.de): crash was intended emergengy landing, so they couldn't make it to the airport anymore. Speculative reasons:
Loss of power in 1 oder both engines due to bird strike or running out of fuel
Passenger reports heavy vibrations shortly before crash -- what could this mean?



PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35977 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
There is a map here ::

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3...kte_op_vrijgegeven_A9__.html?p=9,1

Click to enlarge.




DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35967 times:

I've found an Air Traffic control recording which claims to be related to this incident:

Link:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=555_1235561927

[Edited 2009-02-25 06:20:23]

User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35764 times:

it's horrible...one network says crew is dead, some say alive...this is horrible


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1883 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35756 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting one of the largest dutch aviation forums, it is illegal in The Netherlands to publish any ATC conversation without being cleared to do so.


Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4005 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35600 times:

Quoting Cmoltay (Reply 194):
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 173):
The TK press release mentions 7 crew - how does that add up? The Facebook list contains 9 crew members, 4 of those pilots. What would be, by the way, a "PILOT VE" in contrast to a "PILOT"?

Pilot ve murettabat listesi = Pilot and crew list

Kabin ekibi = cabin crew

Thanks. That makes more sense then (should have noted myself that "murettabat listesi" and "Kabin ekibi" do not sound like names). So it is 3 cockpit crew and 4 cabin crew.

I am still astounded why it is still so unclear what has happened to the flight deck crew. I could imagine that it is not easy to talk about the cabin crew if it has escaped the airplane, but it must at least be possible to clarify if the cockpit crew is still trapped in the cockpit and if so, whether they are dead or alive. Just imagine thre stress for their friends and relatives with the information changing almost every other minute or so.


User currently offlineOgre727 From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 721 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35599 times:



Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 9):
Quoting one of the largest dutch aviation forums, it is illegal in The Netherlands to publish any ATC conversation without being cleared to do so.

by whom?



Sigh
User currently offline747ata32 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 44 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35625 times:

Dutch news states both pilots died (RIP) and still stuck in the cockpit. Would hate to be the one who's job it is to get them out.
This wil not make the investigation easier.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 8):
it's horrible...one network says crew is dead, some say alive...this is horrible

According to Dutch newspaper "Telegraaf" both pilots are dead and still stuck in the cockpit.
(would hate being the guy who gets them out)



Flown: 733, 734, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 743, 744, M11, 752, 763, F100, F70, SF340, A319, A320, A321, A332, 772, 77W, D10, D
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27030 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35607 times:



Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 8):
it's horrible...one network says crew is dead, some say alive...this is horrible

I know its the not knowing that is the worst for you and the families. Sky News just speaking to a reporter on the scene who said a tent has indeed gone up by the cockpit and showed a photo of dead bodies covered with sheets not far from the overwing exits.


User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1883 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35498 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Some more pictures, all credits to the photographer: http://www.atcbox.com/modules.php?na...&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35222 times:



Quoting RichM (Reply 7):

I've found an Air Traffic control recording which claims to be related to this incident:

Link:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=555_1235561927

[Edited 2009-02-25 06:20:23]

Sounds real though...



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35233 times:

repost:

Looking to photos of the tail:
it looks like that the "separation area" are in the toilet zone. So, MAYBE the crew that was seating there is alive, badly injured, but MAYBE alive. Obviously if some heavy equipment(ex. boxes) has been pulled off from its position(some engineer maybe can say how many Gs can resist a galley latch) the hopes for them are really low(i remember a colleague has been killed by a galley box that wasn't properly latched during a normal landing).

2 consideration looking at this photo: http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/ANP-9259316.jpg

1. the thing that come out from the fuselage(after the cockpit) can be IMHO a part of the galley that end exactly here.
2. Look at the slide on the open door: it look like it has been disarmed before opening the door. Some suggestion?

As other said: All my condolences and prayers to all the colleague and families of those involved.



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1883 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34839 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Heres an interesting video, though I DO NOT in anyway encourage people to film such footage while driving on the highway. Interesting is one of AMS's fire department's crash tenders is at the spot, while they usually dont go off airport limits IIRC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLN4TIbK1iA&eurl=



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34831 times:



Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 12):
According to Dutch newspaper "Telegraaf" both pilots are dead and still stuck in the cockpit.
(would hate being the guy who gets them out)

What about the 3rd pilot, he should be in the jumpseat as the safety pilot?! what about him?



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7547 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34808 times:

Seems like windshear based on witness and passenger reports. As far as deaths NBC News London is reporting the deaths came from the rear of the aircraft, which based off the pictures is no surprise.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinePart147 From Ireland, joined Dec 2008, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34598 times:

Reposted from Thread 2:

>>Quoting OA260 (Reply 186):
>> picture of engine

This engine doesn't look like it was spinning when the aircraft hit the ground - It's almost certain it was shut down in-flight, according to this other picture...

>>Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 189):
>> http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...6.jpg

...it's the starboard engine.

What a tragedy, My heart goes out to all those touched and affected on this terrible day.



It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34601 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 19):
Seems like windshear based on witness and passenger reports.

A passenger interviewed by CNN told "We were landing normally, when all of a sudden it felt like sinking and 4 or 5 seconds later we found ourselves in a field"



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34407 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 19):
NBC News London is reporting the deaths came from the rear of the aircraft, which based off the pictures is no surprise.

Thats why I am very surprised to hear that the Cockpit Crew died in this Crash.
I would have assumed that the rear FAs and the last 2 or 3 seatrows must be the location of the fatalities.


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34390 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 19):
Seems like windshear based on witness and passenger reports.

Doubtful...ESPECIALLY based on witness and passenger reports.

[Edited 2009-02-25 06:34:06]


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineSkippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34405 times:

Expecting NO FUEL

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3...stof_mogelijk_oorzaak__.html?p=1,1


25 TheSonntag : In any case I feel sorry for all relatives and people involved, a tragic day.
26 StevAAn : The weather is/was rather calm....scale 2 bft...
27 CrimsonNL : Please use caution whith reading things from this newspaper, it has a bad reputation... I find it very very hard to believe that they wouldnt have di
28 Aleksandar : If you ask me, it is lack of responsibilty from media, my friend. All of those crew members have so many behind them who eagerly wants to hear some R
29 JCS17 : Doubtful. There were no reports of windshear on final previous to this aircraft, and wind was around 10 knots at the time.
30 Beagleboys : sorry... maybe its my bad english... i'm speaking of the things that comeout from the top of the fuselage, on top of door 1R
31 Alitalia744 : Thoughts, prayers and condolences to the families and victims. May they rest in peace.
32 KL577 : A few passengers are interviewed on Dutch news as well as a guy who was standing next to the site of the crash and assisted in the evacuation: most s
33 JBirdAV8r : It does seem odd to me that the impact was severe enough to split the fuselage in three, severing the tail, killing passengers (although granted there
34 RichM : That is very sad to hear. What would cause the pilots to be stuck in this case though? I am no expert at all, but from the outside, the deformation o
35 MadameConcorde : Any official news if the a/c flight recorders have been located yet?
36 SQ325 : Thats exactly my point. The deformation is not that horrible. We have to wait for a couple of hours before we know for sure. From the pictures I was
37 Exsr : That shouldn´t be a problem in this case.
38 Ehvk : I just read on Scramble that someone spoke a passenger who has spoken the Captain after the crash. Don't know whats true about it but it does make all
39 Post contains links Burnsie28 : Such as one saw the planes nose pitch up suddenly and a passenger said the pilot was applying engines right before what felt like turbulence. That so
40 Post contains links Part147 : No, I'm sorry Beagleboys - I'm just linking your picture ... http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...6.jpg with OA260's ... http://i231.photobucket.co
41 Sydaircargo : found this on a German news website (sorry only in German) lot of speculation Quote: Zur Ursache des Absturzes gebe es noch keine Erkenntnisse, sagte
42 OA260 : Delegation from Turkish government and TK heading to AMS.
43 Exsr : The cockpit itself looks relatively intact from the outside - but you do not know which forces impacted the crews´bodies during the crash sequence.
44 PW100 : Highly unlikely as there was no severe weahter whatsoever in the vicinity of the airport. Weather was calm.
45 Venus6971 : It appears looking at the pictures that most of the cabin crew were probably hurt severely due to the fact that none of the escape slides were not dep
46 Pilotaydin : I just heard from one of our girls, that one of the F/As made it out ok with a broken leg...
47 Exsr : Translation: No news about the crash. Investigation is going on. Rescue of passengers is most important at the moment. Experts agree, that the pilot
48 FatmirJusufi : Glad to hear that, Pilotaydin.
49 OA260 : Thats great news , I hope there are more stories like that in the next few hours.
50 CrimsonNL : Official press conference is delayed to 1630. RTL 7 (dutch) is showing footage of the dead, and pictures of the flight crew, the german media appearan
51 MadameConcorde : Me hopes this is just more (Turkish or other) media speculation and the truth about this crash will soon be revealed after they find and analyze the
52 Post contains links FatmirJusufi : The pilot was experienced and had flown for the Turkish Air Force, the airline added. Source http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...eaks-pieces-Amste
53 OA260 : TK have said they will fly free of charge 2 members of each passengers family to AMS. Passengers interviewed said the plane dropped like a brick and t
54 JBirdAV8r : I'm not saying it's impossible, I just doubt it. Especially based on two witness reports. Those two things could prove to be circumstancial.
55 Higgi91 : anyone noticed how winglets are sheared off / broken
56 Higgi91 : how you think that happened (soz im a newb)
57 B747forever : Just woke up, and heard this. Indeed really sad. What a disaster. Shortly after the CO crash, now this happens. I really wonder what happened.
58 FatmirJusufi : Sadly no one knows exactly what happened there.
59 CrimsonNL : One of the hospitals which takes care of 6 of the wounded, issued a statement that all passengers are doing "RELATIVELY WELL"
60 PW100 : From several eye-witness reports it can be deduced that the aircraft went into a full stall just before it hit the ground. Apparantly the tail struck
61 FlyingAY : Considering how badly the fuselage and tail is broken from the impact, I'd imagine that the winglets broke off during the impact as well.
62 Speedmarque : With regards to posts asking about why the slides have not deployed: On some a/c the cabin crew procedure in a "belly landing" is to disarm the door b
63 Post contains images RichM : Afaik the winglets are only fixed onto the wing. It has been known for them to detach from the wings unintentionally. With this in mind, I don't thin
64 Glareskin : I have heard a passenger on Dutch televison who claimed to have not noticed anything at all before impact. " target=_blank>http://www.geenstijl.nl/ar
65 B747forever : True, but there are a lot of rumors about a stall.
66 Flypig687 : If that is the case, that makes a stall sound more likely. Hopefully the will find the data recoders and start crunching the data so the speculation
67 Ozflyer333 : No post crash fire No foam from tenders Starboard engine blades seem relatively intact suggesting engine not turning at impact. Possible cause of sudd
68 CrimsonNL : I just hear news that popular dutch music radio is not broadcasting any songs about "flying" today. Wow, thats a relief... I also heard rumours that t
69 RichM : Is it possible that the passengers may have got the "drop" confused with a flare? I'm not sure whether this happened before a flare would have normal
70 JBirdAV8r : Now that does sound plausible to me. I also see a rupture in the top of the fuselage just aft of the cockpit...I don't know the 737, but isn't there
71 Flypig687 : Not sure, but I would think this is a little far from the runway for iniation of a flare.
72 JensOBreuer : perhaps a fuel pump/flow issue like on the crashed BA 777 ...
73 AustrianZRH : First of all, I hope all survivors will get well soon, and the perished ones may rest in peace. My deepest condolences to all affected by that crash.
74 OPNLguy : You have those types of media folks over there too? Unfortunately for the media's "news cycle", the recovery and analysis of the CVR and DFDR won't h
75 B747forever : But then, why this impact if it is the same problem as the BA 777?
76 SAA380 : Wow, really sad to hear. I hope they come to a conclusion to what happened soon. Truly shocking news. SAA380
77 OA260 : That sprung to my mind also but its way too early to tell. Im sure it will be on the minds of those investigating.
78 CrimsonNL : Wouldnt count on it, that incident was specificly related to the FOHE on the 777s RR Trent's engines. Official press conference is expected to start
79 Burnsie28 : You don't have to have severe weather for windshear to happen, microburts and such yes, but you don't need severe weather for windshear. Well they sh
80 TheSonntag : While there are many stupid media people around, one must also acknowledge that they, in fact, serve a public interest. After all, we all want to kno
81 KELPkid : Sorry to have to wake up to this news this morning, and my prayers and condolences to all the families involved...but something has struck me here: Th
82 RichM : No, there has been a few, such as a Kenya airways incident which killed all on board. (737-800)[Edited 2009-02-25 07:32:35]
83 JensOBreuer : There was also the midair collision with the GOL 737NG
84 OPNLguy : Maybe relative to the ground; that GOL mid-air was, well, in mid-air....
85 Post contains links SyeaphanR : BBC speculating fuel starvation... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7910215.stm OK...Unless it's under the wreck, where's the port engine?
86 Planesailing : One was lost a couple of years back in Africa I believe.
87 Atlwest1 : Oh what an absolute tragedy! My hearts go out to the families and loved ones. I hope they can find a cause for the accident.
88 Pilotaydin : well we are all guessing at this point, but i just highly doubt it... if they ran out of fuel, NO pilot in their right mind would pitch up., we're al
89 Post contains links TheSonntag : There was also this deadly runway overrun of Southwest, which involved a 737-700... http://aviation-safety.net/database/...3-8%&cat=%1&sorteer=dateke
90 OA260 : Yes KQ 507
91 KL577 : A Dutch NOS-reporter says on television just now: "We don't know if the black box has been found. We will ask at the press conference coming up. And i
92 Iberia340600 : Is it possible that maybe the plane struck some trees before crashing in that field...hence part of the wingtips being ripped off?
93 Prebennorholm : Knowing the surroundings of AMS, it is very likely that the plane made it though some treetops before hitting the ground. That would easily explain t
94 Kappel : Nope, remember the GOL crash? That was even worse.
95 Beagleboys : it was in another photo. checked on an operation manual. no instruction to disarm slide in case of belly crashland (i think you have no time to do th
96 Post contains links Jpiddink : Press conference starts NOW http://www.nos.nl/journaal24/wmv.html
97 Asorock : Stall, where an aircraft loses minimum power/thrust at which it can glide. In effect the plane could have fell shortly after this vibration, but the
98 Jpiddink : official announcement at press conference: 9 deceased, not specified pax or (flight/cabin) crew 18R to remain closed until further notice
99 FatmirJusufi : AMS officials: 34 persons wounded.
100 OA260 : More than 80 people have been taken to hospital in surrounding areas of Amsterdam. 25 people have severe injuries . 24 moderate injuries.[Edited 2009-
101 KL577 : Update from the press conference from the public health officer: Around 80 passengers are injured and hospitalized. 6 passengers are still in critical
102 OA260 : No confirmation of any crew deaths
103 KL577 : They do not want to comment on the survival status of the pilots.[Edited 2009-02-25 07:48:42]
104 CrimsonNL : 60 ambulances were deployed. They are NOT yet confirming the crew is dead, nothing about the black boxes either
105 Burnsie28 : Not at the altitude they were at, putting the nose down would cause even more of a disaster. Well that killed one little boy in a passing car Looking
106 Pilotaydin : i dont get it...they're in uniform, they were in the deck...what do u mean you need a pax list to confirm, why won't they tell us?!
107 Post contains links Fn1001 : For those who can not get a steady stream of bits and bytes from nos.nl and understand german: this klink: http://www.n-tv.de/61215.html
108 Winfo : Obviously the a/c entered a stall. The reason could be fuel starvation due to lack of fuel , engine ice or simply too low on glidepath with correction
109 Bahadir : given the accident history of other turkish accidents, that's more of a liability than a credibility of flight crew....
110 OPNLguy : Ding! Ding! Ding! BUZZ! The problem is that the definition of "decent speculation" is in the mind of the speculator. Believe it or not, I actually ki
111 CrimsonNL : 3 crew are still on board the AC, all dead. Edit, all 3 are seated in the cockpit...[Edited 2009-02-25 07:53:21]
112 KL577 : Confirmed now: Still corpses of three deceased crew are on board.
113 E195 : apparently '3 members of crew perished' David
114 Fn1001 : 3 creew members still in the AC acc to official statement
115 Stylo777 : three crew members are dead and still onboard
116 FVTu134 : 3 crew still in aircraft and sadly deceased
117 Aleksandar : Now, it is confirmed. All three cockpit crew members died. My condolences to their families, friends, to their colleagues
118 Acabgd : Hmm... I don't remember a stall inducing vibrations - unless you're talking stickshaker, but then you'd have to be a pilot, not a passenger to feel i
119 FlyingAY : As stated before, Kenya Airways flight 507 (737NG) crashed in bad weather conditions. I believe no cause has been determined yet for that crash.
120 CrimsonNL : Dutch reporters are actually speculating that the position of the RUNWAY is the cause of the accident!
121 Planesailing : Just saw this on BBC news. It is a shame, they are the most informative witnesses in such an accident and won't be able to tell the story.
122 OA260 : 3 crew dead in cockpit and they cant move them due to the investigation
123 Atlwest1 : I have one. I guess I should have said my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and there families and loved ones.
124 KL577 : That's the same silly woman as I quoted before: She really has no clue what she is talking about.
125 OPNLguy : Sorry, but the only things "obvious" at this point are that there's a 738 sitting in a field and it's broken up in pieces, and further, that there ar
126 Skippy777 : Confirmed 3 cabincrew dead in the cockpit. They remain there due to the investigation
127 OPNLguy : Damn! I just KNEW they should have moved it!
128 Exsr : Three cabin crew dead in the cockpit????????????
129 Sketty222 : Do they have a procedure to do that? I know some airbus' have a ditching config but how do Boeing detach the engines?
130 EMA747 : A load of wires and electronics. Stupid media.
131 Exsr : Oh please - come on.....
132 CrimsonNL : Obviously it is not possible do detatch the engines. Sorry if I made it look like it was. It was just another silly rumour.
133 Ehvk : Its not Confirmed that it are the pilots that are in the cockpit, the only thing said is that there are 3 crewmembers. and that they will take them o
134 Acabgd : The best...
135 Richierich : So far I have read about 200 posts regarding this crash and at least 15 different theories from you guys, comparing it to various other accidents that
136 Mir : I can't say I've experienced a stall in an airliner (thankfully), but a stall should come along with some buffeting, which the passengers would defin
137 Winfo : When an a/c enters a deep stall it shakes violently. Stick shaker warns when a stall is imminent. F
138 KL577 : Pieter van Vollenhoven, chair of the transport safety board of the Netherlands made an interesting comment: " There is no long trail visible on the gr
139 IliriBDL : Sad news. RIP to the crew and passengers that died in the crash. As someone else said earlier, what a bad way to start the year for aviation. (three c
140 Ptrjong : Yes, Mr Van Vollenhoven from the Dutch Transport Safety Investigation Board has confirmed 3 crew members are dead in the cockpit and that they are 't
141 Flypig687 : A stall is not when an aircraft loses power/thrust to glide. You don't need any power to glide anyway, at least engine created power. A stall is when
142 OA260 : RIP to the Three Turkish Airlines Pilots.
143 A3 : Unfortunately they have taken the world
144 Beagleboys : If they where CABINcrew, thats also the explanation for the crash.
145 ENU : Have they entered the cockpit yet to confirm? Otherwise, how did the rescuers 'decide' from the outside that they were dead already and could be left
146 FatmirJusufi : Officially reported?
147 CrimsonNL : It was said there was a tent around the cockpit for the investigators, the main reason I think they are not moving the bodies is to prevent anyone fr
148 Vfw614 : That's identical to what an eye-witness said very early after the crash on TV. A passenger was also quoted that the were no indications of a problem
149 Aleksandar : Unfortunately yes... At the latest press conference and their bodies are still in the cockpit because of an investigation going on
150 Post contains links BlueElephant : RIP to the Turkish Crew. and Condolences to those involved. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7909683.stm
151 Sketty222 : I was joking also.... Im obviously fully aware that engines cant be detached. What next, ejector seats for passengers?
152 FatmirJusufi : " target=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/79...3.stm That's really sad to hear. RIP to the TK Crew. Fatmir
153 Mir : This makes a lot of sense. Once they figure out where everything is was positioned, they can get the bodies out. -Mir
154 TIALATI : How come the pilots are dead the cockpit doesn't look damaged from the outside unless the nose wheel has protruded into the cockpit....
155 4holer : Sir, not to be insensitive.... But you do understand that there are times when a pulse need not be checked to see that a person is deceased, don't yo
156 Climb1 : I too would love to know what the heck happened to part 2 of this thread that I was trying to read. 3 confirmed crew dead. When I first read about th
157 OA260 : Looks can be deceptive. Sometimes you can have crashes where virtually no damage has been caused but people still die. Its an unfair event. It could
158 Post contains links Mir : http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/200.../02/25/world/0225-CRASH_index.html Look at picture #2. There's a lot of deformation around the cockpit, partic
159 Acabgd : I for one would certainly not object to that at all. But I doubt jettisoning the canopy would be that easy.
160 TIALATI : Hadn't seen that side of the cockpit before as all the pictures shown here were from the other side . Thanks for your info TiaLati
161 Post contains images OA260 : The impact on the cockpit can be seen in these photos.
162 Khobar : If the plane impacted tail first as I think I've read, it's possible the nose gear was forced upwards and may have compromised the cockpit area inter
163 FatmirJusufi : What about TK cockpit crew bodies? Have been pulled-out yet?
164 OA260 : No they need to do some investigations first. They have also set up floodlights around the area. Maybe they are going to be removed at night with scr
165 Aerobalance : This aircraft experienced a lot of force when impacting the ground, thus the people onboard were subjected to high levels of force. I am surprised, an
166 Winterapfel : Pieter van Vollenhoven (chairman of the dutch transportation safetyboard) mentioned that the bodies haven't been removed yet because the cockpit needs
167 Max777geek : who said they didn't enter from the door ? I read too much speculation here. as I said a while ago, if they were alive we'd been hearing already. The
168 Petertenthije : Seen an aerial shot of the crashsite at NOS news. That shot confirmed that the tail hit first. The tailwing is detached from the plane and lying roug
169 Post contains images OA260 :
170 757GB : Well we can't really disagree with that one can we? If the runway had been closer the plane would have landed... My condolences to the families and m
171 Post contains links Aleksandar : THY updated passenger's list on their website, so I will just copy and paste it here Crew List Cockpit 1 Hasan Tahsin ARISAN 2 Olgay ÖZGÜR 3 Murat S
172 Post contains links and images Climb1 : Apologies for quoting the wrong post somehow earlier on. Looking at this side profile pic taken of this 738 a while back, you can get an idea of the
173 CrimsonNL : You kinda had me there, I was like no way! -- Next press conference is scheduled for 1915LT (UTC +1) I will keep you up to date.
174 Threepoint : That's a remarkable assumption, especially for a pilot to make. Good thing the investigators will be looking at ALL possibilities. Think about it. I
175 FatmirJusufi : Does Dutch medias reports any up-to-date news?
176 OA260 : CNN said a passenger a Businessman said passengers were screaming just before they hit and then the next thing he passed out and woke up in hospital.
177 Winterapfel : As far as there where still any doubts: NOS just showed both engines being just a couple of dozens of meters away from the other remains of the plain.
178 SQ_EK_freak : Is there any word on the cabin crew?? It seems from the BBC article that they all made it out alive, considering that they mentioned "3 of the dead ar
179 AustrianZRH : Not at the altitude they were at, putting the nose down would cause even more of a disaster. Wouldn't they keep the nose down keeping speed at V_{bes
180 Pilotaydin : it's not an assumption, the a/c took off ontime from IST and arrived in the terminal area on time, what would u know i just work and fly for the airl
181 Emre767 : Dear Aydın and Kanat, basiniz sagolsun. You feel like you will never witness such a thing when you hear the news, saying a plane crashes in a country
182 Sandyb123 : About 300 foot depending on a number of variables such as wind, weight, length of runway etc. Not much margin for error should something go wrong. SA
183 Post contains links Logos : A sad day indeed. I have to admit that I'm not that familiar with AMS and had no idea that 18R was so far removed from the rest of the airport. For th
184 RobertNL070 : Thoughts and prayers for those stricken by this awful incident. Robert
185 Airbuske : Terrible news. Sincerest condolences to all those affected. How many 737NG crashes does this make it now?
186 OA260 : Pilotaydin you are highly respected and knowledgeable . Your insight and information is highly regarded and needed in this current situation. I would
187 CYLW : Sorry for your loss, but I dont think anything can be ruled out yet. Aircraft can lose fuel through other ways than just burning it in the engines.
188 Pilotaydin : yes and 3 pilots in the cockpit would realize this, inform ATC, inform the company through ACARS and not duck down until they went dry 500 m from the
189 CYLW : Yes, I agree with you. It would be hard to believe. Time will tell I guess. Again, sorry for your loss.
190 Admford : Hmmm... I've been watching the news reports for most of the day now, and I've started to developed a kind of a theory on how the crash happened, thoug
191 Ikramerica : You are assuming all the fuel was loaded as indicated. It has happened in the past where a mistake was made and too little fuel was loaded. So we can
192 AndrewUber : We were just discussing this in the office, I believe this is the 4th: Kenya 738 crashed in a mangrove forest GOL 738 collided with a Legacy China 73
193 Kaitak : I'd just like to add my condolences to those already made; I'd also like to offer my sincere sympathies to PilotAydin and all our TK friends on this f
194 Threepoint : Planes can land on time and burn more fuel than planned. Two Air Transat A330 pilots were on schedule over the Atlantic and were as surprised as anyb
195 Spitfire : Hey guys, do you know that there are FUEL GAUGES in the cockpit, and that those instruments are looked at during the flight ?????????????
196 Kaitak : That was an Air Algerie 736, at (I think) Seville, but I'm not sure if it was written off? Also, don't forget the FR 738 at CIA, following the birdst
197 Pilotaydin : as far as cabin crew, i know 3/4 of them got out, don't know about the last person i do know the 3 pilots are gone...
198 Post contains links HB-IWC : Please continue this discussion in the next installment of this topic which may be found here: TK B738 Crash At Amsterdam - Part 4 This thread is now
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