Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 20895 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 40300 times:
Quoting Admford (Reply 193): Is it possible that an autopilot can mistake the location of the runway and think it begins earlier? If so, that could in part explain the plane coming in lower and slower than most other aircraft normally do for that runway.
It is possible (though highly unlikely) for the FMC to be inaccurate. But the aircraft was on an ILS approach, using ground-based naviagation aids (and the autopilot was following those), so assuming that the navaids were correct, they would have taken the airplane all the way to the runway. And no other aircraft reported problems with the navaid signal.
Quoting Spitfire (Reply 198): Hey guys, do you know that there are FUEL GAUGES in the cockpit, and that those instruments are looked at during the flight ?????????????
Do we know that they were accurate? Sure they're supposed to be looked at during the flight, but do we know that they were looked at during the flight? There are a lot of unknowns here, and they will all be investigated in due time.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Spitfire From France, joined Feb 2001, 800 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 39718 times:
As a pilot in command I won't surely never look at my fuel gauges during a 3 hours flight. Never crosscheck those figures with the one I have on the 'flight planning papers', and of course never calculate the extra fuel I have on board just before the approach phase... just to know how much holding time I have before going to diversion ....
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (11 years already , what a shame !! )
Pic 3 shows the position of the horizontal stabilisers relative to the plane. Pic 10 shows a large crack in the empennage from where the leading edge of the hor stabs would have been, up to the beginning of the tail fin. Violent impact tail down seems extremely likely, as already noted. The tailfin could easily have detached with the hor stabs, not that it would have made any difference.
Cmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 39055 times:
"One survivor has told on the Turkish evening news that he saw black smoke out from one of the engines and the engine departed the plane and flew forward..."
Realising this is a most unreliable account and may have happened after the plane hit the ground or could purely be the imagination of the witness, I want to ask, if what he has told is true, would an engine flying forward point to an airborne reverser deployment? Would that be possible?
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2522 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 38765 times:
Quoting Cmoltay (Reply 22): One survivor has told on the Turkish evening news that he saw black smoke out from one of the engines and the engine departed the plane and flew forward..."
still, if an engine left the wing...no problems...doesn't explain the low speed state...the horizontal stab is about 150-200 meters back from the fuselage, looks like a very very slow speed drop/impact...
the flaps are at 40, which suggests the approach was indeed dual engine...as all other checklists require flaps 15 on single engine
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Max777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 38597 times:
Quote: You are assuming all the fuel was loaded as indicated. It has happened in the past where a mistake was made and too little fuel was loaded.
If fuel was the issue, that wasn't dropping down like it did. It was giving problem before of it.
And if it was beginning there to have fuel problem, Im not sure that it would make to the airport,
but that wasn't going to come down like it did.
I can assume it's been a series of concurrent causes, not just one. The airplane stalled, lost trust, and came down nose up, too close to the rwy treshold (and possibly obstacles) and too low - as already said - for some corrective actions to be taken effectively.
This doesn't sound at all as a fuel issue to me... (I mean fuel presence or qty, not fuel starvation/contamination/icing/etc) An expert pilot can tell if the autopilot was still engaged at the time, at a power loss it would have been trying to pull up instead of .. can't say the english term, anyway "push down" to gain airspeed. Anyhow if they stalled - speed was too low. Maybe too low above flight idle ? Im sure this will come out very soon.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 38602 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 18): Do you see anywhere in my posts, where i claim to be a spokesman for my airline? no...you don't so why even bother say something really really pointless?
I think that the point that he's trying to make is that although it's true that you've never CLAIMED to be an official spokesperson for your airline, your comments might be PERCEIVED by some as "official" since you work for the airline, even though they're just your personal opinions and/or beliefs. Many companies (and I certainly can't say with respect to yours) have policies concerning employee comments on such matters, and some of them can be rather Draconian with respect to infractions to whatever company policy is in place.
Whaley From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 41773 times:
Dutch press conference:
confirmed that all victims including crew and passengers are taken out of the aircraft
there will be no official confirmation of victims' identities yet.
still talking about 9 deaths although on twitter I read of a tenth who died at the AMC hospital.
: Hmm I guess its not impossible . ----------------- New conference in AMS now. Tomorrow they will be able to give more details of nationalities etc..
: My condolences to those affected by this crash. Seeing as this is an American made airplane, does anybody know if the NTSB is going to be assisting in
: Press conference: Over 750 people were working on the crash. All people have been removed from the AC. Edit: I see Whaley beat me to it with the news.
: I was meaning to ask if this could be one of the by-results of a certain failure which put the aircraft in the state it was. Just to get some idea ab
: well then, so much for aviation enthusiast website...if people on here were truely fans of aviation, we wouldn't even bother talk about this crap...
: Media asked was this a test flight with the 3rd pilot. The police said they cant comment on that .
: OK, dare to guess what kind, seagulls, swane or goose? Do they flock onto farmland to look for food like worms?
: Yes, they will. SOP... NTSB ADVISORY ************************************************************ National Transportation Safety Board Washington, DC
: It is bizarre how the winglets are both chopped in half. Unless this is due to severe downward force on impact (which I would have thought would break
: there are a lot of birds, Im no expert but did spent some time with the AMS Bird control. There are a lot of small birds as well, Ducks, Blackbirds,
: I'm sorry if that's your reaction (and it's obviously your choice or not), but Anet's "officiality" or not, what you're dealing with here is REALITY
: I don't disagree at all. I was merely commenting on the claim that because the flight was not delayed, there had to be enough fuel and that there hav
: another one of these "plunging short of runway" accidents, just a couple of weeks ofter the Colgan Air incident...weired
: Not sure if it's been discussed yet, but does anyone have any idea why both winglet tips snapped off at a similar location? The g-forces of impact wer
: With regards to fuel starvation, At least we heard three survivors say the same thing on various Turkish TV this afternoon. They were in final approac
: point taken...BUT....I make the points that everyone else makes on here...and if a journalist wants to manipulate that...he'd have to find a damn det
: Hey Pilotaydin, Great to have you on this site and reading your interesting posts. Keep up the good work! J
: I have no data to the contrary, but I should remind everyone that non-aviation eyewitnesses are not always reliable. Where did this come from. I am n
: Richard Quest now reporting on CNN. He is giving www.twitter.com a plug and telling people what things and quotes have been posted on there. Also to d