Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta And The 747-400  
User currently offlineJoperrin89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17981 times:

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to get some opinions on DL's recently aquired 744's. Once the merger has gone through completely, will DL continue to operate the 744 or will they replace them with more efficiant aircraft such as the 777-300ER or aditional 777-200LR's.

If there is already a thred on this topic please let me know, I am brand new on A.net.  Smile

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17944 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

first off , Welcome Aboard Josh !

My own personal feeling ,with no real evidence to back it up , is that the 744s will be around for a little while , maybe 4-5 years .

Why do I think that ?

If they were planning to get rid of them sooner would they have bothered to start repainting them? But dont forget that NW was launch customer for the 744 , some of their aircraft are really getting quite old now , DL is seems to be very happy with the 777 , and a 77W order seems , to me , the most likely replacement in a few years time for the 744.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17928 times:

They will be replaced in time, just like every other aircraft. But DL is keeping the 744's for now, as they serve their purposes on existing NW routes and offer some very interesting growth options on new and existing DL routes. Plus they are less expensive than shelling out billion$ on new aircraft.

Rumor has it that some parked 744's are also coming onboard from storage.  Wink


User currently offlineDbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 883 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17876 times:



Quoting DL747400 (Reply 2):
Rumor has it that some parked 744's are also coming onboard from storage.

That's the first I've heard of this. Great news if it happens. How many 744s does NW have in storage? How soon would DL start restoring them to service?


User currently offlineMascmo From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17851 times:

I believe DL will get their usage out of the remaining 747's and when it is time retire them. I also believe DL will continue their loyalty with Boeing and will continue to purchase the 77L as DL really seems to like getting the most range out of their long haul fleet. I see DL also eventually purchasing the 787 even though NW has some on order I think DL will place some of their own orders in the future.

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3193 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17779 times:



Quoting DL747400 (Reply 2):
Rumor has it that some parked 744's are also coming onboard from storage.

Rather astute rumor, given how no NW 744's are in storage right now  Wink

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 3):
How many 744s does NW have in storage?

Zero.

Ships 6301 through 6316 are all in service.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2683 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17754 times:

Gone 3-5 years after SOC.

User currently offlineNwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17617 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Delta recently signed a 10 year engine maintenance agreement with Pratt & Whitney for the P4000 series engines which used on both the 747-451 and the A330s. That would indicate that Delta plans on keeping both types or one an extended period of time. Delta also may be planning on obtaining more P4000 powered aircraft.  old 

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17353 times:

Maybe they will need the A 380 or B 747-8 after the merger?

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17191 times:

More than half of NWA 744s, N661US to N670US, belong to the very early built frames so there is a technical reason why those wont be operated for more than, lets say, about 5 years more.
I hope they go for 748Is to replace them. By the time the 744s will be replaced the 773ER will be an aging aircraft type so I hope Delta isn´t so stupid to take that type. A huge airline needs a REAL flagship, the 773ER isnt.


User currently offlineFlydreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16231 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
Maybe they will need the A 380 or B 747-8 after the merger?

Doubtful, neither is selling that well. When all is said and done, I believe that 77W will sell more than twice A380 and 748 combined. The 77W is more flexible. The only major slot restricted airports are NRT and LHR for DL, and at NRT the market is shrinking and they have plenty of slots and at LHR they are far from using their biggest aircraft.

They have no real need for A380 or 748. If they need more than 1 77W worth of capacity, they turn to frequency.

Quoting Na (Reply 9):
I hope they go for 748Is to replace them. By the time the 744s will be replaced the 773ER will be an aging aircraft type so I hope Delta isn´t so stupid to take that type. A huge airline needs a REAL flagship, the 773ER isnt.

77W is a flagship to countless successful airlines around the world. The airlines buying A380 or 748 have 1 or at most 2 hubs they funnel traffic through. The new DL has 7+ major hubs in operation. 77W is a great fit for such a broad operation. 77W is the current state of the art. We'll see how A350 and Y3 turn out, but for now, 77W is the best of the best. Its sale reflect that fact. With the 77L's in the fleet, the 77W is a natural choice.

As for the PW4000 mx contract with PW, the large A330 fleet is PW4000 and will serve many years yet to come with DL. It doesn't mean 744 will be around for any given amount of time.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15382 times:

I think they will keep them after their deadline of 2010 for painting all their planes... If not, why would they repaint them, in this economy? They have also painted a few DC-9's, so those will stay on, too.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15383 times:



Quoting Na (Reply 9):
By the time the 744s will be replaced the 773ER will be an aging aircraft type so I hope Delta isn´t so stupid to take that type. A huge airline needs a REAL flagship, the 773ER isnt.

The 773ER is stupid? Methink it is very very good plane, the best 744 replacement available.

Quoting Flydreamliner (Reply 10):
It doesn't mean 744 will be around for any given amount of time.

Delta has been methodical about this merger. They will execute a v1.0 version of their plans which include the 744, and fly it. They will analyze. Maybe as has been said, the 744 are getting too many hours. But this is a question for the future. In the meantime, the 744 should become full Delta aircraft, as they focus on the merger, that is job 1 here.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14931 times:



Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 3):
How many 744s does NW have in storage?

As stated 0

Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 7):
Delta recently signed a 10 year engine maintenance agreement with Pratt & Whitney for the P4000 series engines which used on both the 747-451 and the A330s. That would indicate that Delta plans on keeping both types or one an extended period of time. Delta also may be planning on obtaining more P4000 powered aircraft.

I could see them going for more A330's.

Quoting Na (Reply 9):
More than half of NWA 744s, N661US to N670US, belong to the very early built frames so there is a technical reason why those wont be operated for more than, lets say, about 5 years more.

Whats your point, NW has 40+ year old DC-9's. The 744's don't have that many cycles on them and the latest 744's were delivered in late 90's early 2000's.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineJoperrin89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14749 times:



Quoting Mascmo (Reply 4):
I see DL also eventually purchasing the 787 even though NW has some on order

I take it those orders are still going to DL? And i wonder if DL might be interested in the 787-8 to replace there somewhat ageing 767 fleet either in part or in full somewhere in the next 5-10 years.


User currently offlineDL757Md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14446 times:



Quoting Joperrin89 (Reply 14):
Quoting Mascmo (Reply 4):
I see DL also eventually purchasing the 787 even though NW has some on order

I take it those orders are still going to DL?

Unofficially....No.



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3097 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14352 times:



Quoting Na (Reply 9):
A huge airline needs a REAL flagship, the 773ER isnt.

So, what about an airline like Southwest? They are quite huge.....and the largest plane that they have is the 737....

Nevertheless, I too would love to see the 748i flying in DL colors....... smile 


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14138 times:



Quoting Flydreamliner (Reply 10):
They have no real need for A380 or 748.

Why did they buy & keep operating the 30 seats slightly smaller 747-400 then for 20 yrs?


User currently offlineJoperrin89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13643 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
They have no real need for A380 or 748.

I think Delta dose have a need for a large aircraft, not as large as the A380, but something more in the range of the 744/748i. But in this economic downtern, recession, whatever you want to call it, i dont think DL is gonna be investing very much in the new airplane department. It will be very interesting however to see what DL dose when the economy improves.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13527 times:

The 747s will stay on for a some time while DL gets itself sorted out and organized. This may be before or after the 747-8 comes online. I would guess that after that point, DL will reassess their needs and most likely replace them with 77Ws or maybe even 787s depending on what the market is looking like.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13479 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):

Maybe they will need the A 380 or B 747-8 after the merger?

I really think is going to be the 747-800. There will be some competition between Boeing and Airbus but DL has always been a loyal to Boeing. Also If DL really wanted the 777-300ER we would all ready have it on our existing fleet. DL really loves their 777LRs they have 2 now and eight coming in in 09 and 10 and 27 options that can be put in to orders. It would make sense for DL to replace the 744 with the 748 as their flagship for the range and the about of passengers it will be able to carry on, I think it was 500 or 550..


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13428 times:



Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 20):
27 options that can be put in to orders.

Could these options be converted to 77W orders? I would foresee that after the introduction of the 787, many flights to Asian hubs will be downguaged due to a proliferation of point to point flying, similar to what happened with European flights with the advent of ETOPS and later the 75W. It seems to me that the 77W would make more sense now and for the future.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4315 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13028 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 13):
Whats your point, NW has 40+ year old DC-9's.

Don't forget they also operated some DC-10s until they were very long in the tooth, with some 120k+ hours accumulated on them before they were finally put out to pasture!

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 20):
There will be some competition between Boeing and Airbus but DL has always been a loyal to Boeing.

Mmm...UA was at one time loyal to Boeing, and we saw where that led! Personally, I don't see DL buying Airbus, but it will have nothing to do with their loyalty to Boeing but, rather, it will have everything to do with Boeing pulling all the stops to keep Airbus from walking on their grass. The only exception I see would be if DL decides they need a plane bigger than the 748, or if they decide to top off on A330 orders.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13012 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):

You have a good point there, that's why there keeping the 744 to see if the traffic is going to pick up as the economy does too. If the economy keeps going down the toylet and passegers traffic declines yes the 777LR and maybe 777-300ERs will defenetly replace the 744. But if the economy gets better and DL starts to make lotts of money,, we'll just have to wait and see.


User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12889 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 22):

Mmm...UA was at one time loyal to Boeing, and we saw where that led! Personally, I don't see DL buying Airbus, but it will have nothing to do with their loyalty to Boeing but, rather, it will have everything to do with Boeing pulling all the stops to keep Airbus from walking on their grass. The only exception I see would be if DL decides they need a plane bigger than the 748, or if they decide to top off on A330 orders.

You have a good point; I also think the dessition will be $$$$$$$$$. How much does the A380 cost and will Boeing mach it.. Also I don't think the runways in ATL can handle the A380 ????


25 Delta763 : DL's policy for a while now has been to manage capacity through frequency rather than aircraft size. Fly the smallest planes that will get the job don
26 KU747 : IMO it is not wise for DL or any other U.S. carrier to upgrade their fleet in this current economic situation, all carriers should cut the spending an
27 0NEWAIR0 : 1) Boeing will have to undercut the A380 price, not match it. It's a smaller aircraft it needs to have a proportionally smaller price tag. 2) Atlanta
28 Roseflyer : So if an airline really needs a huge flagship, then why doesn't the 777 count? United operates the 747 and 777 and uses the 777 in all their marketin
29 BMI727 : I hate to have to say this but it's true. I love airplanes as much as anyone, but the unfortunate truth is that airlines don't need flagship aircraft.
30 Nwarooster : Atlanta will do whatever Delta wants.........Otherwise it is hello Memphis.
31 0NEWAIR0 : Come on, we all know Delta won't leave Atlanta...ever. If they did, I'm sure ATL would love to have AirTran and Southwest control the place.
32 Delta763 : Hahaha! MEM couldn't handle half the bandwidth that ATL does. DL needs ATL just as much as ATL needs DL.
33 DeltaL1011man : the only 747 NW has out of service are 742s. Do you mean 2nd hand 744s? (aka buying more?) I could see it. for the 787-8s that is This is ecause they
34 DL747400 : Did I say that the 744's coming out of storage were NW birds?
35 NWADTWFA : What airline has 744's in storage that might come out and might fly for Delta? NWADTWFA
36 M11Stephen : I don't see DL/NW ordering anymore four engine airliners. Like it or not, the 747 is an 40+ year old design and the future for the 748i looks bleak a
37 DeltaL1011man : there are a bunch of PW 744s waiting for new homes. matter of fact BCC(Boeing Cap. Corp.) has: 1992 (2) 1993 (2) 1995 (1) and 1996(1) all for sale/le
38 YULWinterSkies : Actually, not necessarily. If a paint is due for replacement, they will replace it with the new scheme to streamline the brand. That said, one does n
39 NWADTWFA : I do know that UA had a couple 744 frames that were actually built for NWA and then for some reason (I don't recall) ended up over there. Could Delta
40 Transpac787 : 18 total 747-451's have been built, NWA has 16 of them. The other two were delivered to UA, as at the time NW didn't have the money (or didn't want)
41 Post contains images Viscount724 : Those two 744s ordered by NW but not taken up and delivered to UA below. The 2nd one was returned to the lessor during UA's bankruptcy.
42 C767P : Delta painted three aircraft and within months they were in the desert. N172DN was painted February 2008 and left the fleet in October, N611DL was pa
43 CompensateMe : I believe they were sold upon delivery by NW to UA, with the aircraft delivered in NW colors/configuration. It's in storage. It last operated for Mah
44 Nwarooster : Northwest could not afford the two 747-451s that ultimately went to United. I remember that Northwest did not have cash available to put the galleys
45 Jfk777 : Are all the SQ 744's spoken for or are some still available ?
46 DeltaL1011man : right IIRC exN106UA was for sale on the web page that DL had the 2 763s for sale on. It was 2-3 months ago but she was there.
47 Cmtehori : Hum.. If the 744´s are old, then we can say the DC-9´s are jurassic!
48 United Airline : DL didn't have the B 747-400 simply because they didn't need them prior to the merger. They didn't have a strong presence in Asia. With the merger thi
49 Post contains links Michman : 12 of the 16 747-400 are leased. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are 25 year leases. I saw a bankruptcy document where they wa
50 DocLightning : The 77W is a newer overall airframe than the 747, even if the most recent variant isn't. They now own both 772's and 744's, so there is some systems
51 PGNCS : I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one, Doc. Delta (and other airlines) need the aircraft that makes them the most money, not an aircraft obtain
52 N801NW : This was in the New York Times on August 23, 2003. I'm going to assume that nothing has changed R.A.'s mind in the interim.
53 DocLightning : I disagree. DL needs the capacity. The 744 is inherently cheaper to operate than the 777 because...they own the 744. Once the 744 gets more expensive
54 Brilondon : Could you find a source for this or are you just musing about this. The would probably go for the 777/787 mix of aircraft, although I would not rule
55 MD-90 : And it is a simple fact that for many years the L-1011 was Delta's flagship aircraft, period.
56 Rwy04LGA : In the mid 60's, Douglas had a design nearly identical to the A380 some 40+ years ago. Technology of the 748 makes it a completely different design t
57 DeltaL1011man : not true. If DL wants 77Ws they get them in 2010.
58 BMI727 : I would imagine that DL gets special treatment from Boeing and can get planes pretty quickly. This sort of arrangement is what allowed AA to hold off
59 DeltaL1011man : some of it yea. most of it is DL has 27 777 options which should have all 777 to delta by 2011 or 2012. (IIRC)
60 Mayor : Not exactly. When Ron Allen was CEO, the decision was being made for a replacement for the Tristars. It came down to the MD-11 and the 744. It was sa
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA And The 747-400 posted Wed Feb 26 2003 06:50:30 by CX747
Will Delta Ever BUY The 747-400? posted Wed Oct 11 2000 03:32:55 by DELTAMD-11
The 747-400 Backlog posted Wed Nov 19 2008 13:48:11 by CCA
Delta And The 73G posted Sun Oct 26 2008 13:42:09 by FlyASAGuy2005
Latin American Airlines And The 747 posted Thu Oct 2 2008 08:49:17 by Birdwatching
Delta And The 737-200 posted Thu Jul 31 2008 08:07:45 by BWIA330
Delta And The ERJ-145LR posted Mon May 19 2008 15:47:18 by Simairlinenet
Ocean Airlines And The 747-200F In ALA posted Tue Apr 8 2008 07:21:37 by WILCO737
Delta And The Ex TW/AA 757s posted Wed Feb 27 2008 19:49:25 by WESTERN737800
Delta And The China MD-90's posted Mon Dec 17 2007 19:48:12 by Breaker1011