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Updates On DL Africa Operations  
User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15437 times:

For those interested in DL's emerging operations in Africa, here are a few updates which have received little or no press coverage and, so far as I know, have flown under the a.net radar. All inaugurals/re-alignments begin in June 2009, unless otherwise noted.

- 757 services to Monrovia, Liberia (ROB) and Abuja, Nigeria (ABV) will originate in JFK, rather than ATL. Both operate via Sal Island, Cape Verde (SID). JFK-SID-ROB will operate Mon only, JFK-SID-ABV will operate Wed/Sat.

- Following re-alignment of JFK-DKR-CPT service to ATL, JFK will retain 4x weekly service to DKR on 757s. Flights operate Mon/Wed/Thurs/Sat. This will allow online connections to both CPT and NBO, twice per week each.

- The U.S. ambassador to Angola stated that DL service to Luanda (LAD) will begin sometime between June and September 2009. See link below; services are to originate in ATL. Granted this is not authoritative, but I think this puts to rest any notion that DL has abandoned plans to serve LAD due to economic downturn. No word on Malabo (SSG).

http://www.asemana.publ.cv/spip.php?...ge=article-imprim&id_article=39255

- As previously announced, JFK-DKR-CPT will be shifted to ATL, and service to NBO will begin out of ATL (also via DKR). CPT operates 3x weekly, NBO 4x weekly. All on 763s. Also, ATL-JNB will go nonstop on 777-200LR.

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out in the current economic environment - I am a little skeptical of ABV, NBO, and particularly CPT. Also I wonder how long before AA/CO begin to assert themselves in Africa - 2011 at the earliest?

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15387 times:

Can the -200LR get over the hot and high limits at JNB?

Quoting Frostbite (Thread starter):
It will be interesting to see how all this plays out in the current economic environment - I am a little skeptical of ABV, NBO, and particularly CPT.

South Africa still recieves more American tourists than either Nigeria or Kenya, and South Africa and Nigeria are both more important economically for US trade than Kenya. DL can capitalize off KQ's network in NBO though.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15357 times:



Quoting Frostbite (Thread starter):
No word on Malabo (SSG).

According to Delta.com, Malabo is still a-go.

http://www.deltajobs.net/international.htm



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15339 times:



Quoting Frostbite (Thread starter):
Also I wonder how long before AA/CO begin to assert themselves in Africa - 2011 at the earliest?

I would have expected CO to jump into Africa once DL started asserting their presence. I would love to see AA in Morocco, Egypt and Nigeria, but I think those are less likely given that they have their own large and effective national airlines.

Does DL pick up much premium traffic? If so then perhaps AA should convert an extra 6 757s to start up service to the African continent.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15291 times:

CO is mostly interested in linking Houston with the West African Oil centers, they are going to have to wait until 2011 because of the delays with the 787 program. However CO is in a position being based in Houston that no matter how big of a lead DL might have in developing service to markets like Nigeria, Angola, Malabo etc.. CO will be successful when they do enter these markets.

The premium demand for many of these routes is originating in Houston, DL for now is trying to exploit that with connections via ATL. However the attractiveness of those options diminish with the launch of nonstops from Houston.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15214 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
CO is mostly interested in linking Houston with the West African Oil centers, they are going to have to wait until 2011 because of the delays with the 787 program. However CO is in a position being based in Houston that no matter how big of a lead DL might have in developing service to markets like Nigeria, Angola, Malabo etc.. CO will be successful when they do enter these markets.

IAH-LOS on a 789 should be a money maker.
I'd say AA will look into it once they get the 787. (DL need to look into JFK-JNB along side of ATL-JNB)



yep.
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15172 times:

I'm glad to see LAD is still happening. I wonder what DL had to do to get the notoriously corrupt Angolan government to let them fly into LAD.

User currently offlineBbinn333 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15069 times:



Quoting Frostbite (Thread starter):
ATL-JNB will go nonstop on 777-200LR.

When will this be effective? Also will the route still have a stopover in DKR?


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14941 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5):
IAH-LOS on a 789 should be a money maker.
I'd say AA will look into it once they get the 787. (DL need to look into JFK-JNB along side of ATL-JNB)

What routes would AA likely target. I assume they'd have to go head on with Dl from JFK given the fact that their other bases don't have as much African traffic.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
However CO is in a position being based in Houston that no matter how big of a lead DL might have in developing service to markets like Nigeria, Angola, Malabo etc.. CO will be successful when they do enter these markets.

Very true!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14902 times:

Don't think SID is on the radar anymore all flights will route thru DKR.

User currently onlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14864 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
What routes would AA likely target. I assume they'd have to go head on with Dl from JFK given the fact that their other bases don't have as much African traffic.

I would expect CO to try this from their dominant base at EWR before they try anything from IAH. AA could eventually try these effectively from MIA if and when they choose.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14786 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
The premium demand for many of these routes is originating in Houston, DL for now is trying to exploit that with connections via ATL. However the attractiveness of those options diminish with the launch of nonstops from Houston.

I wish DL would send us some heavier metal on the ATL run to coincide with this demand. At best we get the M90 regularly. A 757 would be nice or even better a 763 - of course the only times we've gotten the heavy is when it operates an NFL charter into IAH and then turns back to ATL with pax ops.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14713 times:

As mentioned, DL will not operate ATL-SID.

previously --
DL 216 Atlanta-Sal Island-Abuja (Wed./Fri.)
DL 212 Atlanta-Sal Island-Monrovia (Mon.)

now --
DL 216 New York-Dakar-Abuja (Wed./Thurs./Sat.)
DL 212 New York-Dakar-Monrovia (Mon.)



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14656 times:



Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 12):
now --
DL 216 New York-Dakar-Abuja (Wed./Thurs./Sat.)
DL 212 New York-Dakar-Monrovia (Mon.)

so no JFK-SID ?


User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14623 times:



Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 12):
As mentioned, DL will not operate ATL-SID.

previously --
DL 216 Atlanta-Sal Island-Abuja (Wed./Fri.)
DL 212 Atlanta-Sal Island-Monrovia (Mon.)

now --
DL 216 New York-Dakar-Abuja (Wed./Thurs./Sat.)
DL 212 New York-Dakar-Monrovia (Mon.)

Thanks for the correction. I should have looked a little closer at the revised schedules!

This is a good move, IMHO. I think DL may have to use SID for the ATL-LAD route, since I don't think the 757 has the legs for ATL-DKR. Correct me if I'm wrong.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5274 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14612 times:



Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 12):
As mentioned, DL will not operate ATL-SID.

So are LAD and SSG also supposed to route through DKR when they start up?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14543 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):
I would expect CO to try this from their dominant base at EWR before they try anything from IAH.

No. IAH has more high yeilding traffic to these oil markets than does EWR. IAH would be the way to go with these markets. They might try an approach where they would route the flights through DKR or LOS and have a flight from both IAH and EWR. But IAH should be a higher priority on this one.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 14482 times:



Quoting Frostbite (Thread starter):
I am a little skeptical of ABV,

I too am skeptical of the ABV run. There's quite a bit of premium traffic out of ABV ans without a non-stop, I think most that traffic would rather a one stop flight on BA, LH etc on a widebody, than on DL with a 757.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14231 times:

So for this summer, the tentative schedule is:

DL200 ATL-JNB Daily 77L
DL201 JNB-ATL Daily 77L

DL50 ATL-LOS Daily 763ER
DL57 LOS-ATL Daily 763ER

DL34 ATL-DKR-CPT Mon, Wed, Fri 763ER
DL35 CPT-DKR-ATL Tue, Thu, Sat 763ER

DL34 ATL-DKR-NBO Sun, Tue, Thu, Sat 763ER
DL35 NBO-DKR-ATL Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun 763ER

DL26 JFK-LOS Ex Sun, Wed, Fri 763ER
DL27 LOS-JFK Ex Mon, Thu, Sat 763ER

DL166 JFK-ACC Daily 764ER
DL167 ACC-JFK Daily 764ER

DL84 JFK-CAI Ex Tue 763ER
DL85 CAI-JFK Ex Thu 763ER

DL216 JFK-DKR-ABV Wed, Thu, Sat 757
DL227 ABV-DKR-JFK Sun, Thu, Fri 757

DL212 JFK-DKR-ROB Mon 757
DL213 ROB-DKR-JFK Tue 757
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that's the definite (so far) schedule. What comes next for Luanda and Malabo?


**ATL-SID-LAD 2x Weekly 757**
**ATL-SID-SSG 1x Weekly 757**

or

**JFK-SID-LAD 2x Weekly 757**
**JFK-SID-SSG 1x Weekly 757**

or

**JFK-DKR-LAD 2x Weekly 757**
**JFK-DKR-SSG 1x. Weekly 757**

Personally, I think that Luanda and Malabo will be routed through Cape Verde, seeing as how Delta is hiring positions in SID. DKR or SID, Delta's Africa network will be impressive nonetheless. Maybe next summer we will be seeing ATL-CPT and ATL-NBO on 77L's?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13853 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 18):
Maybe next summer we will be seeing ATL-CPT and ATL-NBO on 77L's?

The 77L would be better used not on CPT. I would imagine however that yields could be high on a flight to NBO since no other airline serves NBO to the US.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 18):
**JFK-SID-LAD 2x Weekly 757**
**JFK-SID-SSG 1x Weekly 757**

or

**JFK-DKR-LAD 2x Weekly 757**
**JFK-DKR-SSG 1x. Weekly 757**

Looks like its going to be this way. Services to these countries (no matter the airline) is very volitile. I would peg JFK for a better gateway to these places though (as opposed to ATL).



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13323 times:

JFK-DKR and JFK-SID can be made with a 757??? What if there is a delay at JFK and they burn some fuel waiting to takeoff? Seems like an awfully long route for a 757

User currently onlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13146 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 16):
No. IAH has more high yeilding traffic to these oil markets than does EWR

That would be the case perhaps to LOS with all the oil fields in Nigeria (Africa's biggest oil producer), but the rest of Africa would be better served via EWR and the NYC market.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
The 77L would be better used not on CPT. I would imagine however that yields could be high on a flight to NBO since no other airline serves NBO to the US.

 checkmark  At least until DL has more 772LRs in their fleet, but even then a 763ER with a stop in DKR, SSG or LAD would make sense for CPT. NBO would be a very good fit for the 772LR non-stop.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1352 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12982 times:

Loads have been very so-so for Cape Town, and most of the traffic is low-yield leisure traffic. Cargo too has been a disappointment. Emirates and BA take out a lot of the US-bound traffic, even though the routing is much longer. One thing people really like is the availability of seat-back video (economy class) on those competitors. Cape Town to JFK or ATL is a LONG way to fly with just the old-style bulkhead movies. I winced a bit when I saw that the ATL-CPT routing will stay with a 763.

I would not be shocked to see Cape Town go away entirely, what with the economy and all.

Also, I didn't realize that ACC is moving to the 764. Makes sense, considering the loads on most Accra flights.


I invite you to check out some of my photos from CPT, DKR, and ACC here....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrodden/sets/


PS

[Edited 2009-03-01 18:31:09]


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12812 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 21):
That would be the case perhaps to LOS with all the oil fields in Nigeria (Africa's biggest oil producer), but the rest of Africa would be better served via EWR and the NYC market.

It would be the case to Nigeria, Angola, Malabo and several other West African destinations where oil production is located. Shell which has it's US headquarters in Houston is involved in some big projects in Africa.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12564 times:

Remember that the US doesn't even air service bilaterals with several of these African countries and highly restrictive agreements with others. Even those that are fairly liberal on paper are not necessarily open in reality. It is highly unlikely that any 2nd competitor will be able to set up shop in most of these markets. It is also highly unlikely that DL will walk away from these markets as long as they can make money.

DL has been very aggressive in building its route network in Africa because it is highly profitable but it is also not going to be easy for other carriers to move into these markets.

I'll try to get it posted some time soon but DL's average fares based on DOT data in most of its Africa markets are well over $1000 on an annual basis even for the routes that are single segment (ie not South Africa which is really a 2 segment transatlantic flight), almost double what carriers get on routes to/from Europe. IT is not likely that DL will be sharing its African revenues with any other carrier any time soon.


25 Commavia : We'll see. I'm not saying that any other U.S. carrier necessarily breaking down the door to get into Africa anytime soon. AA to South Africa and Cont
26 Evan767 : Well then what's stopping CO then? Surely a 777 route from IAH-LOS would be more profitable than EWR-HKG, at least, according to you. Time is ticking
27 Pyrex : You don't want to know.
28 Imag : With South African's now needing visa's for the UK, it makes it more appealing to travel direct to the US, rather than via the UK as a lot of people
29 Bobnwa : Where did you get this information from and how was this conclusion arrived at?
30 STT757 : I'm sure there are plenty of folks in the Houston Business community who have been dealing with interesting characters throughout the West African re
31 Imag : All my mates prefer to fly with a TV and thus something to do for 15 hours (besides sleep or annoying your neighbour). So no technical research from
32 WorldTraveler : S. Africa is the only market in Africa where another competitor is likely to begin service. The bilateral allows it and DL is not using all of the 21
33 Drerx7 : I have to disagree - as DL and ATL have pointed out - when dealing with long hauls like this many pax will backtrack. Nonstop connections to Nigeria
34 LAXdude1023 : I strongly disagree. An IAH-LOS nonstop flight would do very well.
35 Post contains links STT757 : Again the business ties between Houston and Africa is at the level that nonstops from Houston based CO will without a doubt be successful, and it's m
36 Drerx7 : Not to mention the extremely large Nigerian population in Houston - again...I strongly disagree with WT's otherwise precise analysis.
37 WorldTraveler : Backhauls that add 1500-2000 miles of additional flying just don't happen that often. If you believe otherwise please share the data with us to suppo
38 MPDPilot : After reading some comments on here about how awesome IAH would be for a number of flights to Africa. I am just curious what you think of DL operating
39 FlyingSicilian : To piggy back on what some others have said about IAH-Africa traffic, Texas, and specifically Houston -It SHOULD be able to support several Africa non
40 Atlwest1 : I guess theoretically they could serve IAH-LOS or something directly but that would be stepping on the toes of the major hub CO carrier big time. It m
41 Nickofatlanta : What is the bilateral like with Nigeria? DL will have 14 weekly flights to Nigeria this summer - how willing would the Nigerian government be to give
42 OA412 : Nigeria and the US have open skies so, in theory, CO can begin flying to Nigeria if they so choose. However, the Nigerian govt has dragged its feet i
43 Commavia : Who said anything about revoking authorities? Just because another U.S. carrier might want to serve some of these African markets doesn't mean they w
44 Femialpha : I would love a flight from ATL to ABV but definitely not on a 757. I do not see how they could compete with BA's T7's and KLM's 332's on this route.
45 WorldTraveler : Those carriers exist by contract business from a very limited number of sources which is priced high. The carriers that operate that service do so at
46 FlyingSicilian : Actually the "sources" are larger than one would think. The consulate general of Angola in Houston has two agents dedicated to the visas and arangeme
47 Frostbite : I´ve been traveling since starting this post - interesting comments. I suspect that if and when LAD and SSG are launched, it will be out of ATL due t
48 Post contains links Aviateur : For what it's worth, there is a huge Cape Verdean population around the northeast, especially in southeast Massachusetts and Rhode Island. A JFK-Cape
49 SurfandSnow : Had you asked me 10 years ago if Delta was to become a prominent global carrier, I would have laughed and called you crazy. I still can't believe Del
50 B737900ER : CO announced in 05 that they were going to fly EWR-LOS with a 767-200. A few months later they said the route was not going forward due to things beyo
51 Post contains links COalways : CO will still start up LOS flights ones the aircraft are avialable and other Africa cities. Delta will not be the all means to Africa. CO will luanch
52 Frostbite : "Low yield" leisure traffic to CPT could still be pretty lucrative relative to other regions such as Europe. I have no idea of the actual numbers for
53 WorldTraveler : I have never seen any documented statistical evidence saying that IFE is a primary purchase driver on any route, even ones that are 16 hours or more l
54 Mir : Then that's a problem, and they'll have to go back and refuel. But I doubt it will happen too much, and with DL being the only nonstop carrier in the
55 MaverickM11 : Almost 15% of DL's ATLLOS passengers come from IAH. There's a reason DL has a through flight number to IAH, and it's not because IAHLOS isn't viable.
56 AirNZ : Sorry, but why does one need "documented and statistical evidence" to know what everyone else already knows........does one need a scientific survey
57 Bobnwa : Are you seriously suggesting that a US or Capetown originating passenger to the US would fly via Europe with its resulting many extra hours as oppose
58 Nwaesc : From who? The FAA?
59 Phollingsworth : Actually, the answer is yes. The problem with your statement is that it relies on "conventional wisdom." A funny thing about conventional wisdom is t
60 WorldTraveler : I fully agree that IAH is a source of some rich traffic but the charter carriers that offer service to meet their need do so on a very infrequent bas
61 Super80DFW : IAH gets 757's in the summer, occasionally. The idea of a DL 763 to IAH still has me cracking up.
62 MaverickM11 : What are those other markets that IAH can't connect to? They're all pretty much just as easily reached over IAH, or in the Northeast, which isn't ide
63 Drerx7 : I was laughing too when I saw one operate ATL-IAH-ATL after doing some NFL charter work.
64 Mir : It's just as advantageous a hub as ATL is. Not as geographically ideal, sure, but better O&D. And what's to say that CO couldn't offer connecting ser
65 DeltaL1011man : means nothin. Had they cut JFK-DKR then it would but now they are still the same. JFK-DKR ATL-DKR DKR-NBO DKR-CPT. Its kind of like when DL starts JF
66 FlyingSicilian : Currently Luanda is 3x weekly non-stop and has been for ~ 7 years. I wouldn't call that infrequent. Malabo didn't last as long, mind you, but some of
67 DL Widget Head : Not to mention management. It's going to be a costly upgrade. Expenses have to be watched even more closely now in this economy.
68 FlyingSicilian : Why, it happens on occasion now , and IAH is Texas biggest international gateway, something DL is trying to draw from for said flights to Africa and
69 Jetlanta : Better O&D? Really? With the exception of a few, highly concentrated, high-fare, low-volume markets, this certainly isn't true. ATL is a larger O&D m
70 Nwaesc : How much does an individual Cozy Suite cost? Or, how much will it be per plane?
71 Mir : Of course. But certain people in this thread seem to have gotten it into their heads that DL has snuck into Africa and slammed the door behind them t
72 WorldTraveler : DOT data for the 3rd quarter of 2008 shows that DL's average fare on JFK-CPT waas $860. In contrast, ATL-JNB was at $1046. Neither could be considered
73 CompensateMe : Hmm... how many routes have been started & stopped from SLC in the last several years ? (just kidding!)
74 MaverickM11 : That's about the fare for JFKBOM, which is 4 hours shorter and has one less cycle.
75 MaverickM11 : True, but I think everyone is forgetting that CO is the #1 player in the #1 OD to just about anywhere in the universe, including most of Africa, shou
76 PVD757 : I don't like the switch in terms of ROB. The PVD area has the largest population of Liberian-Americans in the U.S. The Providence Journal has listed t
77 Yellowtail : More like they pick up the scraps from EK and this is why EK is such a huge failure at IAH at 90% LFs) and their fares are so low. From the day CO op
78 Drerx7 : Could you repost those stats again?
79 Drerx7 : SIdenote - if anyone thinks that IAH-LOS 'might work' then obviously they are basing their assumptions on erroneous information. Houston's VFR traffic
80 Frostbite : A brief aside from the present subject of US legacy carriers: does anyone know if North American still flies to Banjul? No US airline is going to begi
81 Jetlanta : So you suppose that CO can just "take over" NYC-Africa from little old Delta whenever they are so inclined to do so? CO is indeed #1 in NYC. But here
82 MaverickM11 : Like BOM? DL has a very tough time in JFK--it runs a revenue deficit to just about any other US carrier on most international routes. It's been the o
83 WorldTraveler : Since you keep raising BOM, let's look at the average fares for all US-India nonstop segments in the 3Q of 08. DL JFKBOM $779 CO EWRBOM 824 CO EWRDEL
84 B737900ER : This is something to reason on. There is something beyond the control of CO that keeps them out of that market, be it crew issues, or government issu
85 Jetlanta : Maybe in some head-to-head markets certainly. Typically, if you are honest about it, Delta is coming from behind in almost all of them. In most NYC m
86 Drerx7 : The problem with them starting Nigeria years ago was the fact that the Nigerian government blocked CO's EWR-LOS flight...which was announced because
87 MaverickM11 : Ed stated on the call that DL trails AA and UA out of NYC. Plus JFK has a lot more competition. There are a lot of things working against DL and JFK.
88 MaverickM11 : You just told us CPT was not low yield because it had a similar fare in spite of being several hours and one more stop longer I think that proves my
89 Jetlanta : Yeah, very true. Which is why it is a long term investment that they are clearly committed to making. Fair enough. Many do seem to be certain, howeve
90 AF022 : When exactly does DL start JFK-LOS? And why are DL's JFK-ACC loads so strong? Is there that much traffic, or are passengers going beyond ACC? ACC is n
91 MAH4546 : Probably wealth. Ghanese are, on average, among the wealthiest Africans. There is also a large middle-class Ghanaese population in the U.S., in both
92 WorldTraveler : I missed the conference call so would like to know the metric he was using but average fares for all transatlantic services out of NYC for 3Q08 shows
93 Post contains links Frostbite : No big revelation here....but I just came across DL's international fact sheet dated Feb 19 2009 which indicates a September 2009 startup for ATL-Sal-
94 WorldTraveler : Based on 3Q08 DOT data, average fares from NYC to Europe alone (which AA and CO both serve with DL) are: AA JFK Europe $587 CO EWR Europe $565 DL JFK
95 MaverickM11 : I've said no such thing. In fact I'm fairly certain everyone is losing money on new Brazil routes, but DL is in a particularly difficult spot seeing
96 WorldTraveler : And I have showed you several times that DL's average onboard fare for a number of Latin services is higher than what AA gets in MIA when those fares
97 MAH4546 : Of course, you totally ignore cargo, a huge revenue driver for AA's Miami-South America routes, and on some routes, cargo is the primary revenue driv
98 WorldTraveler : Cargo revenue is not available on a route specific basis so far as I know. If you know where to find it, I'd be happy to see it for a whole lot of ro
99 MAH4546 : I do not know where it is available either, I'm just saying that we can't selectively look at things the way you are. We do "know" that. We might not
100 LAXintl : What he did say was: "Our revenue performance in NY is not what it is for our competitors CAL, AMR. Both out perform us." "We need to improve the uni
101 MaverickM11 : You're the first person to point out how dodgy the DOT data is on a route or regional basis, so I'm just going to ignore you if you're going to bring
102 Jambo : In regards to Delta's upcoming Kenya launch, i feel they will do pretty well because: 1... Kenya is popular among US tourists and if i am not mistaken
103 Phollingsworth : I don't know what he is quoting, but if he is using data that shows true origin destination, and not aggregate data, there is significantly less room
104 AF022 : I don't really understand the point of this flight. ATL-NBO traffic is certainly much smaller than ATL-JNB. Unlike JNB, there are great connections v
105 Drerx7 : I think DL will be able to muster up enough feed from other markets via ATL as well as develop the market. That is essentially how alot of routes out
106 Evan767 : What about those people who need to go to places like BHM, TYS, GSO, CHS, PNS, or the tons of other destinations that are served from ATL that aren't
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