Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NW Flying PHX-EWR In 1986.  
User currently offline747buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 744 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

I was looking through my timetable collection today and saw in the Northwest (Orient) schedules from April and June of '86 they flew two 757s a day between PHX and EWR! Never even knew of that before, anyone else remember this? Just curious as to why NW of all airlines would choose to fly that route.


At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRichiemo From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

That's a real novelty you have there. I didn't even realize NW had 75s that early. Were they the ones they got in the Replublic purchase I wonder? I'd swear those were codeshare flights but I don't think they had codeshares then. Miss the ol' NW livery, the blue cheat line on the white and silver fuselage. Great stuff.

User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3250 times:



Quoting Richiemo (Reply 1):
Were they the ones they got in the Replublic purchase I wonder?

Most likely not. NW had 757s before the RC acquisition, as since the RC 757s had RR engines (not PW), NW sold them to HP almost immediately.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Was this a proposed Republic route that NW took over with the merger?


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3167 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
Was this a proposed Republic route that NW took over with the merger?

No, it was not. Just an oddball route. I have copies of the last two NWO timetables from 1986 myself. It appears to be just another oddball route NWO flew at the time. They also flew DFWSFO, ORDBIL, ORDRST, and CLEMCO as well, totally ignoring the hub system they built through MSP.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

The DFWSFO would be a connection to a pacific network in my guess. Later at some point they flew a DFW-LAX-SEA route also, didn't they?

User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3133 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Richiemo (Reply 1):
I didn't even realize NW had 75s that early.

Oh yes, they did. As 4everRC memtions, they had those already before taking over Republic in 1986. Northwest got its first 757 already in late 1985, or early 1986. At that time the 727-200 was still young, there were still lots of those on domestic routes with the majors in the United States. It was the time the 757 was all new, only four airlines had those at that time: BA being the first non US customer, Eastern, Delta and Northwest. American got it only in 1989.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

I just checked my February and April 1986 OAG's, the only nonstops from the NY area to Phoenix are 1 daily TWA L1011 and 1 daily AA 767-200 (both from JFK).

My January 1987 OAG lists the AA and TWA flights from JFK as well as a CO 737-300 from EWR.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2994 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 6):
At that time the 727-200 was still young, there were still lots of those on domestic routes with the majors in the United States. It was the time the 757 was all new, only four airlines had those at that time: BA being the first non US customer, Eastern, Delta and Northwest. American got it only in 1989.

I wish the 727 was still young! I miss them!

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
Was this a proposed Republic route that NW took over with the merger?

Actually it was a test market. When NWO took over Republic, they were testing markets. Republic was actually looking into the PHX to EWR route before the merger.

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 2):
Most likely not. NW had 757s before the RC acquisition, as since the RC 757s had RR engines (not PW), NW sold them to HP almost immediately.

You are correct. Was Republic the second US customer for the 757? IIRC, Eastern was the first? Love your user name by the way. I miss them like crazy.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
Was this a proposed Republic route that NW took over with the merger?


Actually it was a test market. When NWO took over Republic, they were testing markets. Republic was actually looking into the PHX to EWR route before the merger.

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 2):
Most likely not. NW had 757s before the RC acquisition, as since the RC 757s had RR engines (not PW), NW sold them to HP almost immediately.

You are correct. Was Republic the second US customer for the 757? IIRC, Eastern was the first? Love your user name by the way. I miss them like crazy.

No, RC was not the second US customer for the 757. I believe NW was. I have a copy of "Flight to the Top," an informal history of NWO (it mentions the RC merger, but doesn't say much about it) written in late 1986. I got the impression Rothmeier was the only NWO chief executive any of the regular employees liked, similar to Anderson's tenure more recently. Too bad everything they promised went needlessly up in smoke. Go figure since NWA had never merged with another airline, they would screw it up. Too bad also for the many homegrown NWA management employees put out of work by Gary Wilson, Al Checci and Fred Malek back in 1989, when NWA went private. Now if I could just find a copy of "Ceiling Unlimited," Bob Serling's outstanding overview of North Central Airlines. I am NOT paying $60.99 for a used copy on Amazon!

[Edited 2009-03-01 17:46:21]

[Edited 2009-03-01 18:05:22]


It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2965 times:

I thought DL was the second US 757 customer after Eastern.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2949 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
Love your user name by the way. I miss them like crazy.

Thanks, man - I miss them too. I grew up riding them, and NC before that, and I watched what small h@!! my Dad went through during the "merger".

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9):
RC was not the second US customer for the 757.

IIRC, RC got it's early 757 delivery slots because another carrier canceled an order - that's why they had RR engines. It was either take them like that, or wait quite a while to get the aircraft. And let's all forget those HIDEOUS ones that came in the RC/NW hybrid livery. I hope someone can confirm or deny this.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2923 times:

It seems that PHX was a focus city of sorts for NW (like MKE and IND today). I recall sometime in the early 90's that they used to fly 744's between PHX and DTW (perhaps their first flying before they were deployed on transpacific routes).

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2907 times:



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
It seems that PHX was a focus city of sorts for NW (like MKE and IND today). I recall sometime in the early 90's that they used to fly 744's between PHX and DTW (perhaps their first flying before they were deployed on transpacific routes).

PHX wasn't really a focus city for NW (it was for RC after they bought RW), they just had a lot of traffic between the midwest and PHX.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2868 times:



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
(perhaps their first flying before they were deployed on transpacific routes).

You are correct, NW used the 744 on the PHX-DTW flight prior to beginning international operations for them. Similarly, I recall CO flying their first 777s between MCO and EWR.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2858 times:



Quoting N702ML (Reply 14):
I recall CO flying their first 777s between MCO and EWR.

I was at EWR to see them the first day of their scheduled operations with CO, they took delivery of two 777s (#1 and #2) which they put into service domestically. I'll never forget my first impression of how big they were, especially the engines. I also took note of how many families were boarding for the trip to Orlando and how cool flying a 777 on EWR-MCO must have been.

The first 777 flights were:

EWR-IAH-LAX
EWR-MCO 2x daily



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2859 times:

NW/RC did a lot of testing with PHX during the merger. I can remember reading in AW&ST that RC had a 727 and DC-9 running within a minute of each other from either MSP or DTW to PHX. NW could deploy either one 757 or DC-10 and save crew and engine expense while keeping or adding more seats. Also remember that NW used the 744 for crew familiarization to PHX and LAX (remember seeing them in LAX).

User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2858 times:

This is actually one of my FAVORITE photos on a.net.....

It shows two 757s.....

One in Northwest colors with Republic titles....and one in Republic colors with Northwest titles....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Trevor Ogle



User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2812 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
thought DL was the second US 757 customer after Eastern.

I think you're right.

Delta probably got its first 757 aicraft already in late 1984. This picture, taken in February 1985, shows that this particular aircraft was delivered factory fresh in December 1984.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Burger Collection



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
I wish the 727 was still young! I miss them!

I understand how you feel about the 727, a lot of other a.net members feel the same. But to tell you the truth I feel better that they are all gone from the majors eventhough I always loved this airplane. Why? Because knowing that they are all gone, I know there is nothing I can do to fly on one so I'm not frustrated anymore like I was in 1995 and 1996 when I had not flown on those. During those two years, bad years for me, I flew on no 727 aircraft as those were still around in the majors, I was worried, nervous and frustrated like a smoke addict who is deprived from cigarette in a non smoking environment, that I would never fly on one again, but during the late 90's and early 2000's I caught up and did everything to fly on as many of those as possible before it would be too late. I say bad years for the following reason: I have to blame this on nobody but myself, for not doing enough traveling and not doing anything to fly on a 727. It's like when I go to the restaurant and I get out of it upset on myself because I didn't choose the right dish, same thing.
What I used to feel for the 727, I feel now the same for the A300 at AA. I want to fly on one(an AA A300) before the end of August before its too late. I know that after Sept 09 I will definitely never fly on an A300 or A310, ever again in my life. This being said, I won't fly to MIA before Aug 09 on an aircraft other than the AA A300. Either I fly on it or I don't go to MIA. Of course if I go to MIA after Aug 09 I will fly with pleasure on any aircraft type because I know there will be no more A300, so I won't be frustrated anymore like I am now regarding the A300. My parents flew on one recently.
In 2005 I flew on an Air France 737-500 from VIE to CDG. I knew AF would get rid of those in the near term future so I jumped on the occasion to fly on it, even if it was not the cheapest ticket, with the idea that I had to fly on it at least once before it would be too late. I would rather pay a little bit more, knowing that it is either at the time or never, instead of missing a once in a lifetime occasion, but at least I don't get frustrated. As soon as I stepped out of the AF 735 in CDG I knew I would never fly on that one again.
When I know an airline will soon get rid of an aircraft becoming rare, II jump on the occasion to take a trip on it if possible, I consider flying on it before its too late, I don't care how long I have to wait at the airport, I don't care how late I arrive at destination. What I do care is not being frustrated in the future. THAT's ME. It doesn't matter if nobody in my family is like me.
I' sorry if I bother you with all this as this is not the subject of this topic, but it is just my personal feeling.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2807 times:



Quoting 4everRC (Reply 11):
Thanks, man - I miss them too. I grew up riding them, and NC before that, and I watched what small h@!! my Dad went through during the "merger".

Yes, we must have been in the same boat, or either related somehow! LOL! My father came from Hughes, and I too grew up riding on Republic. My dad went through the same crap, and it was not fun to watch the merger. I will never forget going through DTW once shortly after the merger, and seeing my favorite airline disappear. It was gut wrenching seeing the Herman's mixed around the painted over tails. I sure hope that DL will be nice enough to put a few heritage planes in the fleet.

Quoting N702ML (Reply 17):
This is actually one of my FAVORITE photos on a.net.....

It shows two 757s.....

One in Northwest colors with Republic titles....and one in Republic colors with Northwest titles....

Oh, my stomach churns when I see those two beauties. I miss them!!!  Sad



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2795 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
I understand how you feel about the 727, a lot of other a.net members feel the same. But to tell you the truth I feel better that they are all gone from the majors eventhough I always loved this airplane. Why? Because knowing that they are all gone, I know there is nothing I can do to fly on one so I'm not frustrated anymore like I was in 1995 and 1996 when I had not flown on those. During those two years, bad years for me, I flew on no 727 aircraft as those were still around in the majors, I was worried, nervous and frustrated like a smoke addict who is deprived from cigarette in a non smoking environment, that I would never fly on one again, but during the late 90's and early 2000's I caught up and did everything to fly on as many of those as possible before it would be too late. I say bad years for the following reason: I have to blame this on nobody but myself, for not doing enough traveling and not doing anything to fly on a 727. It's like when I go to the restaurant and I get out of it upset on myself because I didn't choose the right dish, same thing.
What I used to feel for the 727, I feel now the same for the A300 at AA. I want to fly on one(an AA A300) before the end of August before its too late. I know that after Sept 09 I will definitely never fly on an A300 or A310, ever again in my life. This being said, I won't fly to MIA before Aug 09 on an aircraft other than the AA A300. Either I fly on it or I don't go to MIA. Of course if I go to MIA after Aug 09 I will fly with pleasure on any aircraft type because I know there will be no more A300, so I won't be frustrated anymore like I am now regarding the A300. My parents flew on one recently.
In 2005 I flew on an Air France 737-500 from VIE to CDG. I knew AF would get rid of those in the near term future so I jumped on the occasion to fly on it, even if it was not the cheapest ticket, with the idea that I had to fly on it at least once before it would be too late. I would rather pay a little bit more, knowing that it is either at the time or never, instead of missing a once in a lifetime occasion, but at least I don't get frustrated. As soon as I stepped out of the AF 735 in CDG I knew I would never fly on that one again.
When I know an airline will soon get rid of an aircraft becoming rare, II jump on the occasion to take a trip on it if possible, I consider flying on it before its too late, I don't care how long I have to wait at the airport, I don't care how late I arrive at destination. What I do care is not being frustrated in the future. THAT's ME. It doesn't matter if nobody in my family is like me.
I' sorry if I bother you with all this as this is not the subject of this topic, but it is just my personal feeling.

Ben Soriano

And the most scary thought as we get older. One day, we are going to be flocking to ride on the last Airbus 320, Boeing 737NG, and Regional jets that fill our skies today. What is even scarier is when one day, we will be the old timers, and kids will be saying, "Oh, I can't wait till they retire that old 737-900, it is a fuel guzzler." Or, I can't wait to ride the last scheduled Airbus 319 flight in the US, what an old bird.

I wonder if the posts that day will say, "Will DL ever retire the DC-9?"  Smile



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2765 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
Actually it was a test market. When NWO took over Republic, they were testing markets. Republic was actually looking into the PHX to EWR route before the merger.

Figured as much. RC just got their 757s in 1985-1986 when NW took them over and seems that RC was in the midst of testing the waters on certain routes because of its range. I guess this is where PHX-EWR came in. It makes sense because these were the days before AW started PHX-EWR and CO's major EWR hub.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I just checked my February and April 1986 OAG's, the only nonstops from the NY area to Phoenix are 1 daily TWA L1011 and 1 daily AA 767-200 (both from JFK).

Wow. I had no idea AA flew a 762 on JFK-PHX. When did AA abandon this route? 2002-2003?



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2682 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 21):
Wow. I had no idea AA flew a 762 on JFK-PHX. When did AA abandon this route? 2002-2003?

Not sure, but I find it amazing NYC-PHX has gone from two daily flights on two airlines in 1986 to 15 daily flights on four airlines.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 21):
Figured as much. RC just got their 757s in 1985-1986

I checked Boeing, here's the US customer delivery dates:

Eastern Air Lines 12/82
Delta Air lines 11/84
Republic 12/85



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2599 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
PHX wasn't really a focus city for NW

I think it was. NW served the Orange, Tucson, SFO, DTW, MEM, MSP, MKE and
I believe SEA nonstop from PHX in the mid-late 80's. I was there a few times on NW and also have a collection of scheds and OAG's that back up this statement.
safe  blush 



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2587 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 21):
Figured as much. RC just got their 757s in 1985-1986 when NW took them over and seems that RC was in the midst of testing the waters on certain routes because of its range. I guess this is where PHX-EWR came in. It makes sense because these were the days before AW started PHX-EWR and CO's major EWR hub.

Which brings up the big question. If RC had not merged with NW, I wonder what their route map would have looked like today. RC had a good hold on the PHX market after getting RW. Perhaps RC was the America West vision?



I Am A Different Animal!!
25 USPIT10L : Add NW and AS to US, and you basically have all the major regional airlines under one brand. All former RW, PI, AL, LC, MO, PS, NC and SO territories
26 Timz : Just to clarify-- before the NW/RC merger it was NW that flew EWR-PHX. Nobody's saying RC ever did, are they?
27 WA707atMSP : RC's 757s were originally intended for Indian Airlines. IC ordered 12 757s, then cancelled the order and bought A320s instead. Royal Air Maroc's firs
28 Tommy767 : Thats an interesting question. Given that US also had a similar situation when they merged with Piedmont, they probably would have stuck hard to expa
29 747buff : From a fleet compatibility standpoint, this would have been a near-perfect fit. DL and RC operated the same types of A/C (722, 752, M80, DC9-30), but
30 EXAAUADL : I think both RC and NW got 757s in 1985. AA and UA didnt have them till 1989 or so All of those except DFWSFO were left over from regulation era It w
31 STT757 : An even bigger boom is Las Vegas, my February '86 and January '87 OAGs show no nonstops between NYC and Las Vegas. Now there's 19 nonstop flights on
32 4everRC : True, but remember that when Wolf took over, he completely gave up on the west coast - essentially the entire RW network (sound familiar all you old
33 F9Animal : I am not a fan of Wolf. I just don't understand why he is so anti west coast. This is not the first time he dismantled something that was doing good.
34 TWA1985 : The ORD flights are no surprise. Pre-Republic merger, ORD was the second largest base behind MSP. They served between 14 and 18 cities non-stop from
35 WA707atMSP : That's correct. NW's main maintenance base was in MSP, not DTW - very important when you're debugging a new aircraft. NW also subbed the 744 on other
36 N702ML : DOH! I think you're right!
37 USPIT10L : The last remaining RW routes were SNAPHX, SNALAS, and PHXTUS They also had PHXTUS. FWIW, Wolf took over RC at a time when they really needed directio
38 N702ML : Speaking of the last few non-hub routes from the RW days....remember that ill-fated NW 255 that crashed in DTW was actually operating DTW-PHX-SNA.
39 Isitsafenow : One minor detail, my friend......#255 orginated at MBS. Where's the ORD-BOS? In the 80's, NW flew one or two r.t.'s a day using a three holer.. Yep,
40 Vapar8 : The inagural flight for the 747-400 was MSP to PHX. They had at least 3 daily 747's into PHX at one point. Several nights 2 would RON. They would fill
41 TWA1985 : Sorry, I can't believe I forgot that one. So the new list would be: Minneapolis Detroit Billings Cleveland Tampa Ft. Lauderdale New York (JFK) New Or
42 STT757 : I was doing some organizing of my timetables and found my June 1986 AMEX Skyguide, the two NWA 757 flights from EWR-PHX are indeed in there: One of th
43 HermansCVR580 : Yes a time will come that we will long to get one last ride on that 737-800 or A-319/320. Do I even say one last ride on either a EMB or CRJ. But just
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW 742 @ PHX posted Tue Feb 3 2009 03:37:19 by Tracker
NW Merge To DL In My CRS? posted Thu Jan 22 2009 15:23:07 by JDFlyVC10
OAG: US Express Ends PIT-EWR In March posted Thu Jan 15 2009 20:27:34 by Enilria
NW Moves To C Concourse In SLC posted Fri Jan 2 2009 11:43:31 by Ridgid727
Widebodies At EWR In The 80s posted Sat Dec 27 2008 15:46:35 by 747buff
Number Of Flying Passengers Globally In 24 Hours posted Fri Aug 15 2008 10:25:23 by Jabar
First Two NW 787's Will Be In NW Livery posted Tue Aug 12 2008 11:36:49 by Burnsie28
NW Cutting Additional Capacity In 4Q posted Tue Jun 17 2008 14:53:18 by PSU.DTW.SCE
2 NW A330 Clip Wings In MSP posted Sun Jun 8 2008 18:43:08 by WingnutMN
Jet2 Flying To EWR From LBA posted Tue May 13 2008 13:32:13 by Zbb757