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V.Australia Defers; SRB Says Nothing...  
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5477 posts, RR: 30
Posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10451 times:

Not so long ago, SRB publicly took Boeing to task for delaying deliveries of their aircraft. After receiving 3, V.Australia is looking to defer future deliveries. On this, SRB is remarkably silent.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rs-slowing-its-777-deliveries.html

Quote:
"It's clearly the lousiest time ever to launch an airline. In airline history this is equal to picking 10 September 2001 as a launch date.




What the...?
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 956 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10425 times:

I don't get what your point is. V Australia had to delay it's launch because of the Boeing strike and he rightfully took them to task over it. Now if then decides to defer then how is that the same thing? Airlines change delivery dates all the time. Or are you just wanting to bash Branson?

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10188 times:



Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 1):
I don't get what your point is.

Neither do I.

It is very different having your first aircraft and therefore entire operations delayed as opposed to the final 3 aircraft on the order books.

I think it makes sense.

After 4 aircraft they will have SYD-LAX, MEL-LAX, BNE-LAx and supposedly SYD-JNB witht he 4th.

Delay the last 3 until the market picks up and you can make rouytes like BNE/MEL daily.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10063 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
Delay the last 3 until the market picks up and you can make rouytes like BNE/MEL daily.

You know it may be worth them making the BNE & MEL flights to LAX a triangle flight until things improve? That way they can combine the traffic. My bet would be to have the inbound flight from LAX land at BNE then continue to melbourne then nonstop from there.

Both markets won't really love having to go to another city first, but they may do what Cathay does with Cairns/Brisbane and Hong Kong. In that CX102/103 stop for half the week in 1 direction via CNS and the same stop is made in the alternative direction on different days of the week. What this does mean is that its possible to fly non-stop from either city in both directions depending on what day of the week you travel.

Any excess seats could be sold off via the virginblue website.

BTW, Delta is nowhere to be seen at this end. No promotional activity at all. Do they only expect to be competing for US based customers on this route and happy to seed the Australian market to Virgin and Qantas?


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

Many Australians book & pay for their USA flights 11 months ahead, so if an airline does not have their flights available for sale 11 months out, then that airline won't be considered.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9938 times:



Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 4):
Many Australians book & pay for their USA flights 11 months ahead, so if an airline does not have their flights available for sale 11 months out, then that airline won't be considered.

Which even more leads me to question how serious Delta are taking this end of the market? More expensive prices AND no promotion? I would have thought at least they'd be trying to push their BusinessElite product. I can only lead me to conclude one of two things. Firstly, 1, DL are waiting until its close to the launch to offer some crazy deal to get everybody's attention (though that in itself may fail in this economic environment) or, 2 - DL doesn't think Australian based pax will make up make of their customer base anyway so its just going to focus on US based passengers.


User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9866 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 5):
Which even more leads me to question how serious Delta are taking this end of the market? More expensive prices AND no promotion? I would have thought at least they'd be trying to push their BusinessElite product. I can only lead me to conclude one of two things. Firstly, 1, DL are waiting until its close to the launch to offer some crazy deal to get everybody's attention (though that in itself may fail in this economic environment) or, 2 - DL doesn't think Australian based pax will make up make of their customer base anyway so its just going to focus on US based passengers.

yes it really makes you wonder what DL is thinking (or not thinking)

They should have at least matched some of the crazy fares out there, otherwsie they're going to have lots of empty seats on some services, esp. whhen they start (or are meant to start ?) LAX/SYD IN 4 MONTHS TIME !!!

Maybe they are going to defer/cancel ?

Am sure they could get good rate on other carriers to carry any already booked pax.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9788 times:

SRB is a lucky son of a gun that has a great sense for the dramatic. I'm sure Boeing's feathers weren't ruffled when he mouthed off a month or so ago. SRB had the opportunity for some fan fare and he took it. Boeing is a professional company and just went about the business of preparing the next $175 million dollar 77W for his new airline. V Australia, Virgin Blue, Virgin Atlantic Airways are run by a man who truly puts the line, "Better to be lucky than good" to use.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25556 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9673 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
On this, SRB is remarkably silent.

Okay, I'm confused:

(i) Why should he say anything?

(ii) What would you have him say?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9629 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Not so long ago, SRB publicly took Boeing to task for delaying deliveries of their aircraft. After receiving 3, V.Australia is looking to defer future deliveries. On this, SRB is remarkably silent.

Didn't the same happen with the A380? Seemingly endless delays (that did end) and then a deferral.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25556 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9577 times:
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Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 10):
Didn't the same happen with the A380? Seemingly endless delays (that did end) and then a deferral.

Not really the same. The Virgin Atlantic deferral happened in October 2006, before the A380 had been delivered to any airline and when there was still doubt as to first delivery.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

how would they do JNB with four planes? One plane for MEL, one for BNE and two for SYD. My calculation is that you could do four flights a week LAX-SYD-PER-JNB with two planes - surely they would not cut SYD-LAX to less than daily? Their fifth 77W is due in Feb 2010, they would just miss peak season for Australia South Africa with a Feb delivery.

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9466 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 13):
how would they do JNB with four planes? One plane for MEL, one for BNE and two for SYD

My bad - perhaps it is JNB that they are wanting to delay. Wouldnt be surprising given the longer ETOPS hasn't yet been approved.


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9446 times:

For those who, for some reason, don't know what point is:

'But Godfrey adds: "It's clearly the lousiest time ever to launch an airline. In airline history this is equal to picking 10 September 2001 as a launch date. We made the decision three years ago when the world was a different place. The sweet spot has clearly gone pretty sour at the moment."'

The Boeing strike has absolutely ZIP to do with the market conditions.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25556 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9397 times:
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Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 13):
how would they do JNB with four planes?

I doubt they could, but they may have more than four aircraft - the thread title is a bit misleading, because they haven't actually deferred any aircraft yet.

What Mr. Godfrey says - in the OP's linked article - is that they may defer some - or one, or two:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rs-slowing-its-777-deliveries.html

"The start-up is due to take its next three aircraft in February, April and October 2010, although this plan may be adjusted in line with the economic climate. Godfrey says: "We may well look to slow those down, at least one or two of them."

I don't read that as a done deal.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9398 times:

I thought the discussion was that JNB would be routed via PER because of EROPS. Or course if EROPS is a problem, DJ could call their friends at VS and ask if they have a spare A346 to do SYD-JNB. If anyone had ever looked at performance of A346, would SYD-JNB need to be an A346HGW, or would the standard aircraft do it?

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8602 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9387 times:
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Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 4):
Many Australians book & pay for their USA flights 11 months ahead, so if an airline does not have their flights available for sale 11 months out, then that airline won't be considered.

As you yourself have mentioned in several other posts/threads peoples booking habits are actually starting to change and people are not booking so far out because they are often hanging on and hoping for another special to come out .

Often people had to book 11 months out in the past due to limited capacity/competition on the route resulting in flights that were often full months out .


With both V Australia and DL coming on to the Australia-US route adding lots of capacity , and with loads reducing on the existing carriers due to economic uncertainty coupled with peoples reluctance at the moment to commit to big spending it is likely that this change in booking patterns will continue and may even become permanent . ( In much the same way that a few years ago people tended to book their transtasman tickets much further in advance than they do now but now tend to book a lot closer to date of travel )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9359 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 20):
Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 4):
Many Australians book & pay for their USA flights 11 months ahead, so if an airline does not have their flights available for sale 11 months out, then that airline won't be considered.

As you yourself have mentioned in several other posts/threads peoples booking habits are actually starting to change and people are not booking so far out because they are often hanging on and hoping for another special to come out .

Often people had to book 11 months out in the past due to limited capacity/competition on the route resulting in flights that were often full months out .


With both V Australia and DL coming on to the Australia-US route adding lots of capacity , and with loads reducing on the existing carriers due to economic uncertainty coupled with peoples reluctance at the moment to commit to big spending it is likely that this change in booking patterns will continue and may even become permanent . ( In much the same way that a few years ago people tended to book their transtasman tickets much further in advance than they do now but now tend to book a lot closer to date of travel )

no u missed the point.

If you want to travel say in busy period like after Xmas say 27 Dec SYD/LAX & back in late Jan just in time to get back for kids school & you want best fare & max choice you MUST book now.

VA & DL will never have specials at this time of year (if they do, they're going out of business & so will we).

The $975 type special cause people (who aren't regulars) to think...

I'llwit until they have that special for when i want to travel & if it's late DEC there never will be a fare anything like that & invariably, they won't travel & say things like...

what bastards those airlines r, trying to charge $1990 for fare to LAX (when in reality that's probably a break even airfare for most airlines, not taking into a/c that get get 25% off fare.

If on the other hand VA had said fare is $1499 inc & we'll give you $524 worth of car hire/accom FREE, that not only sounds much better but is not bastardising the price (at least to same extent)


User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9267 times:

I see the irony in the OPs statements, but I'm not sure that you can equate a forced deferral due to the strike to a requested deferral due to operational requirements. Hopefully VAus survives long enough to accept all the planes they have on order as well as many future orders, but for now we shouldn't criticize them doing what they feel they need to do to survive. As an aside I think IMHO, travel agents still have a role to play in keeping airlines and tour companies honest.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8602 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9266 times:
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Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 21):
no u missed the point.

If you want to travel say in busy period like after Xmas say 27 Dec SYD/LAX & back in late Jan just in time to get back for kids school & you want best fare & max choice you MUST book now.

No , Actually I didnt miss the point since you didnt make that point in your post .

Quoting REALDEAL (Reply 4):
Many Australians book & pay for their USA flights 11 months ahead, so if an airline does not have their flights available for sale 11 months out, then that airline won't be considered.

was what you actually said , with no reference to 'for peak periods only ' . If that was the point of your post then it appears that you missed the point , not I .

Perhaps if you actually took the time to proof read your posts before you post them it would give you the opportunity to check whether your post actually says what you intend it to say ( not to mention the opportunity to correct the spelling , grammar and punctuation errors that often make your posts extremely difficult to read )

[Edited 2009-03-01 20:24:04]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9167 times:
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Can someone explain how a thread about VA defering 3 77w ac. Has been turned into a bun fight about what a 1 memeber thinks is right or wrong?

Back to the topic, I cant see why SRB would need to make a comment on deffering these birds , if the market is not there what is the point of taking a $100 mil+ plane to fly empty or park up. I am not a big SRB fan but the man does know what he is doing and love him or hate him he has the $$$ in the bank to prove his success

mal787

[Edited 2009-03-01 20:50:55]


BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5477 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9032 times:

The point was that while SRB was hauling Boeing over the coals for delivery delays, they were deciding they really didn't need so many after all...and chose someone else to make the announcement. I found it somewhat ironic...but maybe that's me.


What the...?
User currently offline1821 From Greece, joined Jul 2007, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8917 times:

V Australia may actually defer their operations to JNB until the football worldcup ( that's soccer to all the Aussies and Americans - no harm intended ). I was hearing SRB on the Greek news channel ANT1 that it may be wise to delay JNB service until MAY 2010. Personally it makes sense!!!


734 , 737 , 738 , 742 , 744 , 757 , 767 , A320 , AVRO RJ 100 , ATR 72 . ATH , ZTH , RHO , EFL , LHR , MAN , DUB , AMS ,
User currently offlineAnstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8775 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 27):
The point was that while SRB was hauling Boeing over the coals for delivery delays, they were deciding they really didn't need so many after all...and chose someone else to make the announcement. I found it somewhat ironic...but maybe that's me

There is a bit of a difference. The Boeing strike impacted them launching their airline...

The deferrals are for further growth of the (now) exisitng airline.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5477 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8670 times:



Quoting Anstar (Reply 30):
There is a bit of a difference. The Boeing strike impacted them launching their airline...

The deferrals are for further growth of the (now) exisitng airline.

I understand that but the article also has them lamenting that they chose this time to start the airline at all. At the same time they were very publicly chastising Boeing, they are questioning their own business decisions...but much more quietly.

As I said, I found it ironic...nobody else is forced to.



What the...?
25 ANstar : Perhaps - but a lot has changed int he world in 6 month as well.
26 Alangirvan : A comparison might be Air Asia X which started their own long haul only a few months ago. They have just reported a nasty 12 month loss. They have a h
27 Mariner : I don;t think they are "lamenting" the decision to start the airline at all. They may be lamenting the present economic circumstances, but that's a d
28 Gemuser : But it had everything to do with VA NOT launching just prior to the peak travel time of the year. If the aircraft had have been delivered on time the
29 9252fly : First of all,SRB is an unrepentant media whore. The point the thread starter is trying to make is that SRB is being a little hypocritical by lambasti
30 Mariner : Yes. So - ? I don't see any hypocrisy whatsoever - as several have explained above and especially in post #35. mariner
31 Flyjetstar : I think it's a simple case of Branson bashing.
32 EK345 : What!?! An airline deferred delivery of an aircraft?? GASP!! Well, based on that, i'm sure that VAustralia is now doomed for failure. Forget airline d
33 Na : Especially due to the recession VS Australia comes out as one of the less wiser business decisions of Branson. Its not his fault, but I wouldnt wonder
34 TISTPAA727 : Quite simply, SRB could have used the delay as an excuse for why V had to defer deliveries..."Because Boeing was unable to deliver our planes on time
35 Khobar : The article doesn't mention peak travel time being a factor. It does, however, make it clear they are comparing the sour economic situation we're in
36 Lightsaber : I agree with the above posts these are two issues. Virgin Australia was ready to launch for the prime Christmas season. It would have been the easiest
37 Keesje : SRB told Boeing they ( explicitly combining mngt & unions ) hurt his passengers during X-mas holidays & they better not screw up again or else ... So
38 Threepoint : How did they take it? Is Boeing eager not to displease Branson again, or have they taken offense to his remarks?
39 Mptpa : Today on WSJ, Delta had an ad touting flights to SYD from July 01 (pending Govt approval). I hope this is daily flight out of LAX and can't wait to t
40 Lightsaber : I'm more excited about DL LAX-SYD than VA. Its amazing how quickly money makes people forget comments. SRB would be over a barrel if he doesn't talk
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